OK this is getting rather silly regarding hard mode Flashpoint GF

[ninjonxb]

My god, are you telling me that all of my experiences have me as a common factor? And here I thought sometimes my experiences were of other people.

 

And let's put our thinking caps on here for a moment. If a bunch of tanks come into a thread and complain and agree that bad DPS makes groupfinder painful then it's no longer just one person is it? Just stating the obvious.

 

Especially when it isn't unique to this game either...

 

WoW has the same gosh darn issue and how long has it been out?

 

The only games that don't have this issue either:

A) don't have any sort of group finder

B) don't use the trinity (guild wars 2)

 

edit:

 

I do not say gosh darn... god dammit!

Edited July 10, 2014 by ninjonxb

[Darth_Wicked]

My god, are you telling me that all of my experiences have me as a common factor? And here I thought sometimes my experiences were of other people.

 

And let's put our thinking caps on here for a moment. If a bunch of tanks come into a thread and complain and agree that bad DPS makes groupfinder painful then it's no longer just one person is it? Just stating the obvious.

 

Tank groups with two DD's via-GF.

 

Said DD's break CC repeatedly. Do not interrupt. Focus on stronger enemies, instead of attacking weaker ones first. Allow healer to be overwhelmed by ten Standard or Weak enemies. Use stealth next to enemies who can see through stealth.

 

Obvious conclusion?

The fault lies on the Tank. No question about it. He's a puny whiner.

Makes sense.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[Jeweledleah]

Everyone complaining about terrible experiences that stopped from using GF at all I'm just gonna state the obvious here. If the only common factor between all of your supposedly terrible experiences is YOU what does that suggest? Let's put our thinking caps on here.

 

yeah, that reasoning would fly if all the experiences were bad. they are not. but enough of them are bad to discourage you from trying in hopes that you may get lucky.

 

when my vanguard tank tanks from range, using explosive round and full auto, and I as a healer end up tanking majority of the pull, when sage dps is actualy specced for heals (and doesn't respec) uses forcequake on solo mobs, and disturbance on multi target pulls, breaks cc when there's no need to break it and needs on every. single. drop. I'm not the one who is a problem here.

 

when dps leap in before tanks, scatter mobs with knockbacks, attack wrong mobs, run off on their own, come into a HM lvl 55 flashpoint wearing lvl 29 blues and greens... if you are lucky and they have THAT much. that is NOT me being bad.

 

I may not be the best of tanks (or even healers) but in good groups, I have no issues. when I encounter new players who are willing to listen and work as a team - I have no issues, I mean we may not be able to kill bonus bosses with short enrage timers, but otherwise, we get it done and I'm completely fine with that. but the ratio of bad groups to good groups is starting to get worse and worse. and this is why fewer and fewer of us are willing to pug.

 

lets put our thinking caps on here and put the blame where it belongs.

[Kalfear]

So WOW do some people want to try and make this about me it seems so lets clear up many misquotes and misstatements

 

1) I normally play healers, not DPS, and yes the 8 hours and 12 hour times listed included multiple healer characters in queues. Only have a couple DPS, so that part of arguement goes out with the bathwater.

 

2) I am the most silent, non confrontational player you will meet in a FP. So for those taking 3-4 words from my Original post and misquoting it. Sorry not on anyones hate list from abusing Tanks. I fully understand how rare they are and go out of my way to make their jobs easier if I can.

 

And btw, not every single tank is competent as many try to show here. I said 2nd group yesterday was a bad group. Healer in that group (merc with almost 40k health but only doing low 500s for his blaster shot heals...my Merc when speced heals is well over 600 hps for same heal because I'm not end heavy and rather stacked aim/power) who was clearly in over his head. Well it didn't help that the tank was not pulling the Mob in the Desert encounter of Czerka flash point to the green pods for him to destroy and weaken himself. Tank just stood fighting and not moving even when I would be calling location when a pod was lite up. NOT every tank is a great player as some like to claim here.

 

This tank could definitely benefit from his/her class being easier to play.

 

3) For those saying "Solution is, make a tank". WHAT PART OF I leveled a Guardian tank to 50 last year only to find out the class is hell to play for me. Next up are my Shadow Tank and my Vangard Tank. So sorry if reading a full post asking to much before your smart *** and non helpful response.

 

4) The end goal of every player is NOT to do OPS.

I did the hard mode ops stuff and put up with the elitist attitudes of HM Raiders before Makeb.

Been there done that, have no desire at all to return to running ops.

Its the same crappy attitude that eventually takes over in ops guilds for the last 23 years In MMORPGs.

Doesnt matter how well they get on now, the drama and nonsense always comes up in those guilds and I have no interest in it anymore.

Just wanna log in, run my dailies, weekly (CZ/Oricon/ maybe Makeb), do my tactical and HM Flashpoints. And do events when on.

That shouldnt be that big a desire to be honest to successfully fill

 

5) In previous games Ive played the tank role very successfully. LOVED my paladin in DAoC and was very good at the class. Loved my Tank in Rift and again had great success with it. Loved my tank styled character in UO and EQ and had success there as well.

 

Did NOT like the tank spec here in SW:TOR for Guardians (as I said in OP, dont know about Shadow or Vangard yet as both are very low level still for me).

 

So its not like Im saying this with out experiencing at least one of the tank specs.

I found the Guardian tank way to busy and convoluted for what should be a pretty straightforward experience truth be told.

 

Truth is on Harbinger server we have a lack of tanks going in the Queue for GF HM.

The few still remaining in game when they do join me, the que pops instantly when we que up. INSTANTLY Fills 2 dps or dps and healer slots.

So doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out

 

with tank instant fill ins

no tank and doesn't matter if healer or dps, your waiting hours

 

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

 

Ending:

The problem on my server is there is no tanks queing up for GF HM and players sit for hours and hours hoping for a pop.

Now you can act all ignorant and almighty and blame DPSer if you want

I've seen good and bad DPSers, just like I've seen good and bad healers and tanks

No class has a better track record over the other on player behavior and misbehavior

But no one also can fill in for the missing classes when one goes dry like tanks have on my server

The game literally needs to do something to attract more tank spec players

You shouldnt have people sitting for multiple hours every day hoping for que pops

 

Bad groups will happen when you use GF

shrug it off and try again

Id dare say that most groups are good to great groups in GF

Its maybe 10% of time you get a bad group so amazes me how much some people dwell on and focus on that 10% rather then seeing the benefit and good experience of the other 90% of time.

 

The problem is the shortage of tanks

 

A bad player can be taught to do better

A non existant player will remain non existant

If the issue was a teaching issue I could handle that

ITS NOT

 

PS: Ive never understood this btw

Tank players really bad for this

"I dont do Flashpoints because some players abuse me"

 

Thats like saying "I dont swim because I once didnt know how to"

 

If someone abuses you in a flashpoint, put them on ignore and you will never EVER be grouped again with them in a GF Flashpoint/OPS

 

But for some reason many ion this thread seem to think if one person abusive, then its reasonable to punish the entire player base for it.

 

Just ignore the abusers.

Make their behavior have repercussions

The more idiots you put on ignore

The better your groups will become as you have weeded out many of the chronic problem players

Dont punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few

Edited July 10, 2014 by Kalfear

[altaboy]

Way to often DPS will ... stand in stupid ...

 

haha, that's an awesome saying!

Edited July 10, 2014 by altaboy

[RRZZRR]

Im not looking for a hand out here BTW. HardMode should be hard.

 

adjust the HM flashpoints to make them doable with out full on tank

they are not hard at all and can be done without tank, most of them can be 2-manned and some even soloed.

just find dps who can que as tank

I know I want to earn Ultimate coms and have zero interest in doing the whole Raiding guild nonsense again. Id much rather do a few hardmode flash points then do a ops/raid./

can't understand that, FPs are quite boring and what's the point of gearing up if you're not going to raid?

Edited July 10, 2014 by RRZZRR

[Kalfear]

Frustrated people who don't queue anymore?

 

It's the same mentality in WZs. Why should anybody subsidize (carry) bads who can't call out inc? So what happens? The frustrated player TRYING to do the right thing quits - leaving the bads to complete.

 

A simple mechanic to fix this is to make sure that no random WZ / FP "pop" includes people on your ignore list.

 

its already that way for FPs Loth

But wasnt for WZ last I saw (not that I do WZs any longer anyways)

[Warrgames]

So WOW do some people want to try and make this about me it seems so lets clear up many misquotes and misstatements

 

1) I normally play healers, not DPS, and yes the 8 hours and 12 hour times listed included multiple healer characters in queues. Only have a couple DPS, so that part of arguement goes out with the bathwater.

 

2) I am the most silent, non confrontational player you will meet in a FP. So for those taking 3-4 words from my Original post and misquoting it. Sorry not on anyones hate list from abusing Tanks. I fully understand how rare they are and go out of my way to make their jobs easier if I can.

 

And btw, not every single tank is competent as many try to show here. I said 2nd group yesterday was a bad group. Healer in that group (merc with almost 40k health but only doing low 500s for his blaster shot heals...my Merc when speced heals is well over 600 hps for same heal because I'm not end heavy and rather stacked aim/power) who was clearly in over his head. Well it didn't help that the tank was not pulling the Mob in the Desert encounter of Czerka flash point to the green pods for him to destroy and weaken himself. Tank just stood fighting and not moving even when I would be calling location when a pod was lite up. NOT every tank is a great player as some like to claim here.

 

This tank could definitely benefit from his/her class being easier to play.

 

3) For those saying "Solution is, make a tank". WHAT PART OF I leveled a Guardian tank to 50 last year only to find out the class is hell to play for me. Next up are my Shadow Tank and my Vangard Tank. So sorry if reading a full post asking to much before your smart *** and non helpful response.

 

4) The end goal of every player is NOT to do OPS.

I did the hard mode ops stuff and put up with the elitist attitudes of HM Raiders before Makeb.

Been there done that, have no desire at all to return to running ops.

Its the same crappy attitude that eventually takes over in ops guilds for the last 23 years In MMORPGs.

Doesnt matter how well they get on now, the drama and nonsense always comes up in those guilds and I have no interest in it anymore.

Just wanna log in, run my dailies, weekly (CZ/Oricon/ maybe Makeb), do my tactical and HM Flashpoints. And do events when on.

That shouldnt be that big a desire to be honest to successfully fill

 

5) In previous games Ive played the tank role very successfully. LOVED my paladin in DAoC and was very good at the class. Loved my Tank in Rift and again had great success with it. Loved my tank styled character in UO and EQ and had success there as well.

 

Did NOT like the tank spec here in SW:TOR for Guardians (as I said in OP, dont know about Shadow or Vangard yet as both are very low level still for me).

 

So its not like Im saying this with out experiencing at least one of the tank specs.

I found the Guardian tank way to busy and convoluted for what should be a pretty straightforward experience truth be told.

 

Truth is on Harbinger server we have a lack of tanks going in the Queue for GF HM.

The few still remaining in game when they do join me, the que pops instantly when we que up. INSTANTLY Fills 2 dps or dps and healer slots.

So doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out

 

with tank instant fill ins

no tank and doesn't matter if healer or dps, your waiting hours

 

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

 

Ending:

The problem on my server is there is no tanks queing up for GF HM and players sit for hours and hours hoping for a pop.

Now you can act all ignorant and almighty and blame DPSer if you want

I've seen good and bad DPSers, just like I've seen good and bad healers and tanks

No class has a better track record over the other on player behavior and misbehavior

But no one also can fill in for the missing classes when one goes dry like tanks have on my server

The game literally needs to do something to attract more tank spec players

You shouldnt have people sitting for multiple hours every day hoping for que pops

 

Bad groups will happen when you use GF

shrug it off and try again

Id dare say that most groups are good to great groups in GF

Its maybe 10% of time you get a bad group so amazes me how much some people dwell on and focus on that 10% rather then seeing the benefit and good experience of the other 90% of time.

 

The problem is the shortage of tanks

 

A bad player can be taught to do better

A non existant player will remain non existant

If the issue was a teaching issue I could handle that

ITS NOT

 

WOW you total didn't read the replies or misunderstood them. Let me sum it up for you.

 

Playing a tank isn't hard and there are player out there that enjoy playing that role. Just most player that enjoy playing a tank hate dealing with DPS that you get in GF. Because of these bad DPS (DPS that doesn't understand grouping) tank don't use GF for HM FP therefore there is what seems to be a shortage. People that play tanks tried to explain to you its not game design its poor players is why there is a shortage.

[Jeweledleah]

PS: Ive never understood this btw

Tank players really bad for this

"I dont do Flashpoints because some players abuse me"

 

Thats like saying "I dont swim because I once didnt know how to"

 

If someone abuses you in a flashpoint, put them on ignore and you will never EVER be grouped again with them in a GF Flashpoint/OPS

 

But for some reason many ion this thread seem to think if one person abusive, then its reasonable to punish the entire player base for it.

 

Just ignore the abusers.

Make their behavior have repercussions

The more idiots you put on ignore

The better your groups will become as you have weeded out many of the chronic problem players

Dont punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few

 

its more like... I don't go swimming in that particular pool becasue there are people there who will deliberately try to pull me under and that's just not fun, so I stick to the pool where I know I can swim with people who are not horrible to me.

 

and yes, you can ignore idiots. but its STILL. NOT. FUN. to run into them. yes, tanks can also be bad players, heck I just ran with one of those and it pretty much resulted in me logging out of that particular healer and going of to play solo on a baby alt.

 

do you know what will solve some of the problems with groupfinder and lack of tanks IN groupfinder?

 

making a prerequisite to queue. MUST pass the in game training to be able to queue for particular role.

 

you not liking tanking mechanics of the guardian doesn't make guardians actualy unfun to play. I enjoy my jugg tank a great deal. especially saber reflect. my god, I love that ability almost as much as I love death from above. (and if guardian is convoluted for you, shadow is going to be worse, as they are very active tanks, mitigation wise and there are a lot of cooldowns you will be watching and juggling)

 

simplifying mechanics is not going to change the fact that bad groups happen and they are not fun. (and in my experience its more like 50/50 then 10%, though lately its been getting worse. at least pubside on my server.)

 

not queueing for pugs is not something we do to PUNISH the rest of the playerbase. we do that becasue we would rather NOT punish ourselves, becasue guess what? we owe the rest of the player base absolutely NOTHING.

[DarthTHC]

Blah blah blah...

 

This tank could definitely benefit from his/her class being easier to play.

 

Blah blah blah...

 

5) In previous games Ive played the tank role very successfully. LOVED my paladin in DAoC and was very good at the class. Loved my Tank in Rift and again had great success with it. Loved my tank styled character in UO and EQ and had success there as well.

 

Did NOT like the tank spec here in SW:TOR for Guardians (as I said in OP, dont know about Shadow or Vangard yet as both are very low level still for me).

 

So its not like Im saying this with out experiencing at least one of the tank specs.

 

Blah Blah Blah...

 

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

 

Blah blah blah...

 

The game literally needs to do something to attract more tank spec players

 

Blah blah blah...

 

The problem is the shortage of tanks

 

Blah blah blah...

 

Dont punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few

 

Tanks are not hard to play. I have a tank of each type - Vanguard, Guardian, and Shadow. None of them is remotely challenging. Vanguard is easymode. Shadow is almost as easy. Guardian means I can't hold a beer in one hand while using the other to play.

 

You played a Paladin in WoW? So you're used to setting your cat to dance on your keyboard and calling that "tanking"? Starting to see the issue.

 

You say there is a shortage of tanks. That's not the case. The case is there is a shortage of tanks willing to queue for randoms via GF. There is a subtle but important difference, and only in that difference can we find the actual problem and thus deduce the actual solution to the problem... which I'll come back around to shortly.

 

You also say don't punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few.

 

It's not my job, as a competent tank, to ensure anyone's enjoyment of the game except my own. I'm not punishing anyone. I'm choosing not to queue for randoms because the people I get grouped with in them make my gaming time unfun in a variety of ways all too frequently. That's not me punishing you, but you punishing me. Why should I have to put up with that?

 

I mean, I can log in, type, "/g Anyone up for a hardmode?", and have half a dozen yesses within 30 seconds. If I can do that, why should I put up with the garbage I'm all too likely to get stuck with in the random?

 

And there's where we come around to the actual problem and thus the actual solution to the problem.

 

The actual problem is that, in a game that is supposed to be fun, players we tanks get grouped with make the game not only unfun, but oftentimes downright painful.

 

This isn't a system problem; the game isn't too hard to play for us. We're pretty damned good at it, if we do say so ourselves.

 

This is a person / behavior problem.

 

The solution to the problem, the way to get more competent tanks like me and the many others who've told you the exact same thing I am, is to stop making the random HM experience suck for us. To change the behavior of the people we get grouped with. To have them behave civilly and play competently.

 

That's truly all it would take for me, and I'm sure other players who both love tanking and can do it competently will echo that sentiment.

 

To solve this problem, the game doesn't need to change. Not a bit. Its players need to change their behavior.

[wiredgutter]

I disagree with the OP. I find tanking very fun. I do a HM on my PT and sin every day or two. Sure, there are bad dps sometimes and healers that demand guard and such, but I just roll with it and carry them. My tanks quickly got geared enough to do so.

 

However, my main character is a pvp dps. I don't do GF with him since I hate the wait. But the argument that tanks require 1000 buttons compared to dps is just silly. A well played dps often has more buttons and requires just as much awareness as a tank.

 

If you have problems with the many buttons in MMOs, I suggest getting a naga razor mouse, they are fantastic.

Edited July 10, 2014 by wiredgutter

[ninjonxb]

So WOW do some people want to try and make this about me it seems so lets clear up many misquotes and misstatements

 

1) I normally play healers, not DPS, and yes the 8 hours and 12 hour times listed included multiple healer characters in queues. Only have a couple DPS, so that part of arguement goes out with the bathwater.

 

2) I am the most silent, non confrontational player you will meet in a FP. So for those taking 3-4 words from my Original post and misquoting it. Sorry not on anyones hate list from abusing Tanks. I fully understand how rare they are and go out of my way to make their jobs easier if I can.

 

And btw, not every single tank is competent as many try to show here. I said 2nd group yesterday was a bad group. Healer in that group (merc with almost 40k health but only doing low 500s for his blaster shot heals...my Merc when speced heals is well over 600 hps for same heal because I'm not end heavy and rather stacked aim/power) who was clearly in over his head. Well it didn't help that the tank was not pulling the Mob in the Desert encounter of Czerka flash point to the green pods for him to destroy and weaken himself. Tank just stood fighting and not moving even when I would be calling location when a pod was lite up. NOT every tank is a great player as some like to claim here.

 

This tank could definitely benefit from his/her class being easier to play.

 

3) For those saying "Solution is, make a tank". WHAT PART OF I leveled a Guardian tank to 50 last year only to find out the class is hell to play for me. Next up are my Shadow Tank and my Vangard Tank. So sorry if reading a full post asking to much before your smart *** and non helpful response.

 

4) The end goal of every player is NOT to do OPS.

I did the hard mode ops stuff and put up with the elitist attitudes of HM Raiders before Makeb.

Been there done that, have no desire at all to return to running ops.

Its the same crappy attitude that eventually takes over in ops guilds for the last 23 years In MMORPGs.

Doesnt matter how well they get on now, the drama and nonsense always comes up in those guilds and I have no interest in it anymore.

Just wanna log in, run my dailies, weekly (CZ/Oricon/ maybe Makeb), do my tactical and HM Flashpoints. And do events when on.

That shouldnt be that big a desire to be honest to successfully fill

 

5) In previous games Ive played the tank role very successfully. LOVED my paladin in DAoC and was very good at the class. Loved my Tank in Rift and again had great success with it. Loved my tank styled character in UO and EQ and had success there as well.

 

Did NOT like the tank spec here in SW:TOR for Guardians (as I said in OP, dont know about Shadow or Vangard yet as both are very low level still for me).

 

So its not like Im saying this with out experiencing at least one of the tank specs.

I found the Guardian tank way to busy and convoluted for what should be a pretty straightforward experience truth be told.

 

Truth is on Harbinger server we have a lack of tanks going in the Queue for GF HM.

The few still remaining in game when they do join me, the que pops instantly when we que up. INSTANTLY Fills 2 dps or dps and healer slots.

So doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out

 

with tank instant fill ins

no tank and doesn't matter if healer or dps, your waiting hours

 

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

 

Ending:

The problem on my server is there is no tanks queing up for GF HM and players sit for hours and hours hoping for a pop.

Now you can act all ignorant and almighty and blame DPSer if you want

I've seen good and bad DPSers, just like I've seen good and bad healers and tanks

No class has a better track record over the other on player behavior and misbehavior

But no one also can fill in for the missing classes when one goes dry like tanks have on my server

The game literally needs to do something to attract more tank spec players

You shouldnt have people sitting for multiple hours every day hoping for que pops

 

Bad groups will happen when you use GF

shrug it off and try again

Id dare say that most groups are good to great groups in GF

Its maybe 10% of time you get a bad group so amazes me how much some people dwell on and focus on that 10% rather then seeing the benefit and good experience of the other 90% of time.

 

The problem is the shortage of tanks

 

A bad player can be taught to do better

A non existant player will remain non existant

If the issue was a teaching issue I could handle that

ITS NOT

 

PS: Ive never understood this btw

Tank players really bad for this

"I dont do Flashpoints because some players abuse me"

 

Thats like saying "I dont swim because I once didnt know how to"

 

If someone abuses you in a flashpoint, put them on ignore and you will never EVER be grouped again with them in a GF Flashpoint/OPS

 

But for some reason many ion this thread seem to think if one person abusive, then its reasonable to punish the entire player base for it.

 

Just ignore the abusers.

Make their behavior have repercussions

The more idiots you put on ignore

The better your groups will become as you have weeded out many of the chronic problem players

Dont punish the whole for the bad behavior of the few

 

I am going to assume that you didn't read the replies you got and instead just read them as attacking you...

 

NONE of us are arguing that there are not a lack of tanks in GF

Hell Bioware has even admitted to it being why they (originally) wanted to do 16man operations in group finder.

 

The issue is NOT that tanks are hard to play. I am sorry you thought it was hard but that is your problem and not the games.

Not everyone is cut out to play a Tank or a Healer.

 

The people that do know how to tank or heal have to deal with the large population of stupid DPS.

Now I am not saying that all DPS were stupid, if they were all stupid we would never down any bosses in operations.

 

I am also not saying that all Tanks or healers are good.

 

I am saying that there comes a point that as a tank the last thing I want to do is run with a random group of morons and get a high repair bill.

Tanks have one of if not the highest repair bills in the game.

 

If I run a flashpoint (and I am not alone in this) as a tank I will not do group finder. Simple as that.

 

I DO NOT WANT MY ENJOYMENT OF TANKING HINDERED BECAUSE YOU CAN'T PLAY THE CLASS

Look at what WoW did by over simplifying the game to a point that a *********** monkey can play it.

Edited July 10, 2014 by ninjonxb

[Daekarus]

So we're agreed, the saying that "The biggest problem with multiplayer games is the players," is true.

 

But since you can't change people, particularly not stupid people, we have to either put up with it or try something else.

[DarthTHC]

So we're agreed, the saying that "The biggest problem with multiplayer games is the players," is true.

 

But since you can't change people, particularly not stupid people, we have to either put up with it or try something else.

 

I'm sitting here trying to imagine "something else", aside from players behaving civilly and playing competently, that would incentivise me to join a random group. Enough real life money would work. But I can't imagine any ingame reward that would, including cartel coins.

Edited July 10, 2014 by DarthTHC

[tharbison]

But I can't imagine any ingame reward that would, including cartel coins.

 

Having your tank character immortalized with a shiny statue on Fleet in the new 'Hall of Champions'?!

[jedip_enguin]

This old chestnut again? Nothing like flogging a dead horse.

 

Tanks dont queue for several reasons, all of which have been illustrated here.

 

1. DPS are (on average) functionally retarded.

 

2. Tanks are held responsible for the groups success/failure regardless of their culpability.

 

3. Tanking comm gear is terrible beyond belief.

 

Tanking in a good group is like conducting a wonderful symphony, taning in a bad group is like getting your dick caught in a wringer.

 

Incentives beyond terrible comm gear is the base minimum that needs to be done, but there will still be plenty who queue in guild groups and get the rewards anyway without ever helping out any more pugs than they do now.

 

And if the OP spent 8 hrs in GF as a healer with only 2 pops he's on a lot of ignore lists or playing at perverse hours.

[Jandi]

Correction, no tank wants to pug hm's cause the average dps player is a total moron who doesn't care about the resource level of healers nor the hp bars of tanks and just starts pulling without a word, then starts raging in caps when he dies.

 

It's simply not worth the headache of dealing with those "people".

[Kingsbount]

Jeez... I don't know how much bad PUG's you met, folks. But its obvious that people crying "i will never gonna tank in pugs EVAR!!!!" is sound like a complete drama queen.

Yes, i meet bad players. Damn, i was kicked from PUG becouse i was wearing light armor on my tank (yeah... Sin/shadow).

But im never gonna say "PUGS sucks. I quit tanking".

Becouse i love to be tank

[altaboy]

Truth is on Harbinger server we have a lack of tanks going in the Queue for GF HM.

The few still remaining in game when they do join me, the que pops instantly when we que up. INSTANTLY Fills 2 dps or dps and healer slots.

So doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out

 

with tank instant fill ins

no tank and doesn't matter if healer or dps, your waiting hours

 

Geeee, it looks like there is a shortage of tanks queing based on THE FACTS.

 

I have a jugg and shadow tank on Harbinger and those aren't the 'facts' I'm seeing.

 

I queue for level 55 HM FP's pretty much daily with my 3 55s. I have a operative healer and a jugg and shadow tank (shadow also has dps gear, jugg doesn't)

 

I queue as both tank and dps on my shadow. Within the last week I've actually got in twice as dps - meaning the tank was waiting on the pop. And before I got my shadows tanking gear, I queued only as dps - daily. And I never had to wait more than an hour. And the hour wait was rare, usually faster than that. There were times I got a queue pop within a minute of queuing.

 

My jugg tank often has to wait for the queue to pop. Usually it's waiting on a healer. But a few times recently the queue popped, a dps declined, and went back to waiting. It was never that long of a wait on the healer, so I'm not complaining. But saying there are no tanks queuing for level 55 HM FP's on Harbinger is just wrong.

 

I will agree 'usually' there are more dps queuing then tanks. But it's not always the case since I've get dps pops on my shadow.

Edited July 10, 2014 by altaboy

[Warrgames]

Jeez... I don't know how much bad PUG's you met, folks. But its obvious that people crying "i will never gonna tank in pugs EVAR!!!!" is sound like a complete drama queen.

Yes, i meet bad players. Damn, i was kicked from PUG becouse i was wearing light armor on my tank (yeah... Sin/shadow).

But im never gonna say "PUGS sucks. I quit tanking".

Becouse i love to be tank

 

I love tanking too. I just don't tank using GF. I tank for my guild or I tank for friends. I don't tank for pugs. Just like most people said in this thread. So where is the drama?

[Jandi]

Jeez... I don't know how much bad PUG's you met, folks. But its obvious that people crying "i will never gonna tank in pugs EVAR!!!!" is sound like a complete drama queen.

Yes, i meet bad players. Damn, i was kicked from PUG becouse i was wearing light armor on my tank (yeah... Sin/shadow).

But im never gonna say "PUGS sucks. I quit tanking".

Becouse i love to be tank

 

All the more power to you. I however don't *need* to pug to tank hm's, so why on earth would I? And you should prollie think of it from the perspective of newcomers a well. How many atrocious pugs do you think they are going to bother running before they simply give up? For a new player, it's hard to jump into them if they are insecure about the tactics and eiquette, then to have some retarded muppet scream at them? Why would anyone subject themselves to that? They either respec to dps or simply reroll. It simply isn't worth it to most players, and I can safely say "most" due to the time it takes to get a tank for a pug hm on average.

[Kingsbount]

All the more power to you. I however don't *need* to pug to tank hm's, so why on earth would I? And you should prollie think of it from the perspective of newcomers a well. How many atrocious pugs do you think they are going to bother running before they simply give up? For a new player, it's hard to jump into them if they are insecure about the tactics and eiquette, then to have some retarded muppet scream at them? Why would anyone subject themselves to that? They either respec to dps or simply reroll. It simply isn't worth it to most players, and I can safely say "most" due to the time it takes to get a tank for a pug hm on average.

 

Well, there's a point in your words.

[Draqsko]

Jeez... I don't know how much bad PUG's you met, folks. But its obvious that people crying "i will never gonna tank in pugs EVAR!!!!" is sound like a complete drama queen.

Yes, i meet bad players. Damn, i was kicked from PUG becouse i was wearing light armor on my tank (yeah... Sin/shadow).

But im never gonna say "PUGS sucks. I quit tanking".

Becouse i love to be tank

 

I never said, and I'm pretty most of the tanks in this thread never said "PUGS sucks. I quit tanking". (sic)

 

We never quit tanking, we just choose not to have to deal with the idiots in GF. And really why should we have to, once you get known as a good tank on your server, you pretty much have to beat people off with a stick otherwise that's all you would do is HM FPs. Why queue when you can get invited by good DPS and good healers that make runs take less than an hour?

 

As someone else mentioned above, tanks have the highest repair bills in the game, because all our gear is taking damage even if we don't die, whereas for a dps or heals, most of the damage inflicted is just on a weapon or offhand. Why should I subsidize people who can't respect the way I want to do a pull, when I'm the one footing the biggest bill? Why should I be the one to suffer the personal degradation and insults from people that can't own up to mistakes they make?

 

Sorry Jesus died 2000 years ago, and I think even he would have issues with some of the people in GF. I am not more saintly than Jesus, so please stop asking me to be.

[Lorrimar]

And if the OP spent 8 hrs in GF as a healer with only 2 pops he's on a lot of ignore lists or playing at perverse hours.

 

That is what I was thinking. I play mostly healers & the only time I have had an extended wait is when I come home drunk at 3 in the morning & decide that what I really need to do is heal a HM somewhere. Other than that it's usually 15-20 mins or less & I generally play a few hours behind peak times.

[GalaxyStrong]

I didn't read all the entries so if I rehash anything, My BAD.

 

These are my opinions and you may agree and you may not, IT"S ALL GOOD.

 

The problem is, their is no main reason as to why their is shortage of Tanks rather, it'a a bunch of smaller problems (and matters of opinion of course) that are compounding on top of each other and thus amplifying the problem.

 

Bad Tanks - Yes, their are bad tanks (that's inevitable) but, their are also primadonna that are simply so arrogant it's unreal.

 

The Tanking Role itself - While this is a matter of opinion, most people I meet in Swtor don't relish the Idea of being a PUNCHING BAG! It's not the mechanics as much as the abilities and the lack of excitement (nothing exciting about being a punching bag).

 

Tank "ShellShock" - This is when a good Tank keeps getting grouped with Cr@p Players. over the long term this has a horrible effect and the Tank will begin to ask himself "WTH am I even doing here besides amassing a crazy repair build, F-This I'm gonna go find a guild"

 

Bad Healers - I hate to say this but your Tank is only as good as your healer and if you have a bad healer, YOUR SCREWED! Even the best tanks need to be able to rely on their healer from time to time for big heals, clensing or possibly a battle revive. If your grouped up with a bad healer the 1st person to leave will be the Tank and for good reason too.

 

Bad DPS - Just like bad Tanks this is inevitable. I think I can pretty much assume we all know how badly a poor DPS player can be and the many ways they can screw up an FP. Let move on.

 

Some General issues :

 

Tunnel Vission : I'm not sure why but this happens alot but, it happens with all classes. You get fixated on one dude and your not paying attention to anything else and I consider this to be one of the dumbest thing you can do in this game.

 

Swtor's learning Curve - It's a steep learning curve, especially if this is your 1st MMO. Bioware does very little in the way of providing newb's with understanding of the classes, abilities, navigation, ect (Diablo 3 has a better game guide on their website and thats just sad)

 

Less People Playing Swtor - I'm sure this could be debated in one way or another but, I started playing this game almost 2 years ago and since then I have seen a substantial drop in the population. Thier just are not as many people playing swtor as their was before