Speed of Blasters

[Curmedy]

I'm sure this question has been asked countless times, but I've never personally seen or heard an explanation that satisfies me. Hopefully that can be resolved here!

 

Even though the events of SW are set "long ago", the technology is certainly more advanced than ours currently. This means it stands to reason our current weapons could be manufactured by them, or a variant similar in design/functionality. Yet the stormtroopers and any character/weapon in this universe uses blasters that shoot a beam of sorts....the type that are able to be blocked by human reaction times.

 

Why would anyone who's able to manufacture a weapon such as an AK-47 choose to use a blaster instead? I'm sure in some circumstances (depending on how well blasters are at penetrating heavy armor and how well they hold up under certain environments/distances) but against a robed jedi at close proximity in an environment close to our own, i'm picking our weaponry over theirs any day of the week.

 

The best argument I heard was from a friend that said in the books it's somewhat explained by the force being able to almost help them predict where the beam will end up, and honestly I buy that explanation 100%. But there are instances where even that explanation wouldn't make even a lick of sense.

 

For instance, if you had an automatic gun, that predictive knowledge wouldn't help you at all, as even being as strong as a Jedi wouldn't allow you to move the saber in time to block multiple bullets (even from the same gun if the shooter sprayed in various areas). This is taking into account only one shooter, mind you. If there are 2 or more (which is usually the case in terms of when stormtroopers show up) then there's absolutely no way the saber could block even anywhere near all of those shots with a weapon the speeds of most of our modern guns.

 

*PLEASE NOTE BEFORE COMMENTING*

 

1. I understand this is a fictional movie and that it's not going to be 100% sensible, so please spare me the "there are ewoks, space travel, and force powers, but you find fault in the blaster speed?!" comments.

 

2. I also understand that there may be no explanation at all, and if so i'd be happy to accept that answer as well.

 

3. I called the plasma/light that shoots out of the blasters "beams", but honestly I don't know if that's correct or not. But that is completely besides the point. Whether or not a beam would actually go that speed is a different topic entirely. All i'm asking is why use a weapon that shoots that slowly when you could use a weapon such as our current guns.

[Wolfninjajedi]

1st off, blaster bolts cannot be blocked by normal human reaction times. Only Jedi/Sith, advanced droid reactions or through intense training that would put someone above normal human, are able to block/deflect back blaster bolts.

 

Also yes there are Jedi that are able to block multiple blaster shots being fired from different shooters. It's not something impossible.

 

The 'beam' you see in the movies is actually the tracer, the actual shot is invisible.

 

The final particle beam, or "bolt," contains high-energy particles that cause tremendous damage to anything they hit; the bolt's visible beam is a harmless by-product of this reaction.

 

--Taken from The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

 

The tracer bolt is harmless.

 

As far as the actual speed of a bolt is, that hasn't been determined.

 

You could say that they are of the same speed compared to bullets though..

 

Of course, the fastest moves in the galaxy couldn't block a blaster’s particle beam or a projectile from a slugthrower.

 

--Taken from MedStar 1: Battle Surgeons

 

Of course they also may not be, as Slugthrowers(which would be what we have in RL) are considered primitive/outdated/archaic by blaster standards.

 

All in all, there hasn't been a speed said for how fast a blaster bolt moves officially. They are probably faster, but there is no word officially(that I have seen anyway) that states this.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Curmedy]

Thanks for the reply, Wolfninjajedi!

 

I would love your explanation if it wasn't for the movie portraying that "tracer" you call it as the main projectile doing the harm. The Jedi are clearly trying to deflect the tracer, and it even shows it bouncing off the sabers. If it were only a particle effect that was an aftermath of the actual blast, then it doesn't appear the Jedi are aware of this and are somehow still surviving and doing just fine with this false notion.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Curmedy
Forgot to specifically mention who I was replying to.

[StarSquirrel]

Thanks for the reply, Wolfninjajedi!

 

I would love your explanation if it wasn't for the movie portraying that "tracer" you call it as the main projectile doing the harm. The Jedi are clearly trying to deflect the tracer, and it even shows it bouncing off the sabers. If it were only a particle effect that was an aftermath of the actual blast, then it doesn't appear the Jedi are aware of this and are somehow still surviving and doing just fine with this false notion.

 

Well remember what the speed of light is (that is, very fast ). There is enough time apparently for the light from the tracer to catch up (from a viewer's perspective) to the bolt when it is deflected (presumably bleeding off some of its speed) so the effect you get of the tracer deflecting is merely a product of the speed of light being faster than the speed of a Jedi swinging his/her blade after contact with the bolt is made.

 

Meaning that, for an instant, it appears the tracer is contacting the blade.

 

That's how I'd explain it if you really want one. Otherwise chalk it up to "movie magic".

Edited July 7, 2014 by StarSquirrel

[Curmedy]

Well remember what the speed of light is (that is, very fast ). There is enough time apparently for the light from the tracer to catch up (from a viewer's perspective) to the bolt when it is deflected (presumably bleeding off some of its speed) so the effect you get of the tracer deflecting is merely a product of the speed of light being faster than the speed of a Jedi swinging his/her blade after contact with the bolt is made.

 

Meaning that, for an instant, it appears the tracer is contacting the blade.

 

That's how I'd explain it if you really want one. Otherwise chalk it up to "movie magic".

 

Hey, thanks for the comment!

 

But then I'd have to go back to my original argument, where I say even a Jedi can't move his arms/saber quick enough to block an object moving at the blaster's speed.

 

I completely grant and understand the fact Jedi's are stronger/quicker than humans.

 

But an important piece of information (visually speaking) is that we can visually comprehend and see the Jedi moving their limbs. They aren't going at the speed of light, let alone the speed of sound an average bullet far surpasses in speed. Therefore if you were to argue that the actual blast was going at least as fast as a bullet comparable to our weapons, then you'd also have to make the argument that the Jedi can move their limbs at an equal speed (and even quicker if there were multiple shooters that they needed to block).

 

I will certainly grant they are more physically abled than humans. But all visual representations indicate they aren't moving nearly that quickly.

 

Plus if they could, then I hope they'd use those speeds they can apparently move at to do more than just block objects! Why haven't we seen Jedi run at that speed or swing the saber that quickly?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Curmedy
Originally had "the speed of light" where it now says "the blaster's speed" since I'm not positive it's that fast.

[StarSquirrel]

Hey, thanks for the comment!

 

But then I'd have to go back to my original argument, where I say even a Jedi can't move his arms/saber quick enough to block an object moving at the blaster's speed.

 

I completely grant and understand the fact Jedi's are stronger/quicker than humans.

 

But an important piece of information (visually speaking) is that we can visually comprehend and see the Jedi moving their limbs. They aren't going at the speed of light, let alone the speed of sound an average bullet far surpasses in speed. Therefore if you were to argue that the actual blast was going at least as fast as a bullet comparable to our weapons, then you'd also have to make the argument that the Jedi can move their limbs at an equal speed (and even quicker if there were multiple shooters that they needed to block).

 

I will certainly grant they are more physically abled than humans. But all visual representations indicate they aren't moving nearly that quickly.

 

Plus if they could, then I hope they'd use those speeds they can apparently move at to do more than just block objects! Why haven't we seen Jedi run at that speed or swing the saber that quickly?

 

Jedi can sense the immediate future at some level, they move before the projectile is even fired. That is the in-universe explanation for Jedi reaction time if that's what you are asking.

 

I was merely addressing your question as to why it appears that it is the tracer being deflected.

[Curmedy]

Jedi can sense the immediate future at some level, they move before the projectile is even fired. That is the in-universe explanation for Jedi reaction time if that's what you are asking.

 

I was merely addressing your question as to why it appears that it is the tracer being deflected.

 

Right, and thanks for that! It kind of makes sense to me, but I think i'm either too tired or too ignorant on the issue to fully comprehend your explanation, but I understand it makes sense!

 

As for Jedi sensing the immediate future explanation, if you read my OP I addressed that issue and went into some detail as to why that doesn't hold up.

 

It's because at some point in certain circumstances (that are pretty common according to the movies) simply knowing where/when a blast will strike you isn't enough to evade it.

 

An example of this would be if there were multiple enemies shooting simultaneously which happened a good number of times. Even if you were able to sense/predict where the five blasts would land on your body, unless they are perfectly aligned for a saber to block them all at a certain angle it simply couldn't be done.

 

Also important to note below***

 

I'd also like to point out that there are definitely times in my recollection of the fight/chase scenes where the sound of a blaster being fired happened before a Jedi physically reacted. That would mean the only way the blast could be deflected would be by matching it's speed with physical movement, regardless of predictive measures.

[StarSquirrel]

An example of this would be if there were multiple enemies shooting simultaneously which happened a good number of times. Even if you were able to sense/predict where the five blasts would land on your body, unless they are perfectly aligned for a saber to block them all at a certain angle it simply couldn't be done.

 

Also important to note below***

 

I'd also like to point out that there are definitely times in my recollection of the fight/chase scenes where the sound of a blaster being fired happened before a Jedi physically reacted. That would mean the only way the blast could be deflected would be by matching it's speed with physical movement, regardless of predictive measures.

 

The sound thing is more than likely a feature of the editing.

 

Also, the Jedi doesn't have to move his saber as far as the bolt has to travel to reach him. That can significantly factor into a reduced speed on the part of the saber and still ensure a deflection.

 

As to the multiple shots argument, yes jedi are actually vulnerable to that (just rewatch Order 66 or the Geonosis Arena fight), However, they have this nasty habit of moving around (acrobatic flips, slides, and rolls) making it incredibly difficult to get more than one shot aimed at the jedi that could possibly connect in the first place.

 

Remember the Jedi only has to block the shots that can hit him. The rest he can let sail past as he dodges.

[Curmedy]

The sound thing is more than likely a feature of the editing.

 

Also, the Jedi doesn't have to move his saber as far as the bolt has to travel to reach him. That can significantly factor into a reduced speed on the part of the saber and still ensure a deflection.

 

As to the multiple shots argument, yes jedi are actually vulnerable to that (just rewatch Order 66 or the Geonosis Arena fight), However, they have this nasty habit of moving around (acrobatic flips, slides, and rolls) making it incredibly difficult to get more than one shot aimed at the jedi that could possibly connect in the first place.

 

Remember the Jedi only has to block the shots that can hit him. The rest he can let sail past as he dodges.

 

I'm definitely more okay with the concept now after talking to you and your well constructed points, but not sold on it as of now.

 

I too thought of the distance the blast has to travel in relation to the distance the saber has to move, but at higher speeds the distance becomes less important. It's obviously an important factor, but at the speeds we are referring to it's essentially negligible.

 

As far as the acrobatic and movement aspect of their dodging capabilities i'm far less sold on that argument (although it's certainly making it a TON more believable). There have been scenes most definitely where they dodged and flipped in order to have their enemies really test their aiming skills out for size.

 

But there have been just as many scenes (maybe even more) where it's a simple running away instance that has frontal and back blocking saber movements with no acrobatics or fancy dodges. I just can't see the justification for their blocking abilities if the speed of the blasts from multiple enemies is as fast as a bullet would be.

 

I really do appreciate and enjoy tremendously having this conversation btw! It's great to have a person to discuss this with that doesn't get flustered and angry over my criticism of this point.

[StarSquirrel]

Blasters are inaccurate, pull harder than typical projectile weapons, and their aim gets worse the more rapidly you fire.

 

The droids in the movie actually have a really pathetic gun that served them more like muskets, each shot is misaimed but if you fire a few hundred at once you're likely to hit something. (which is why you typically see a return to Napoleonic warfare from them).

 

Jedi rarely ever fight an enemy with decent aim in the movies.

[Curmedy]

 

Jedi rarely ever fight an enemy with decent aim in the movies.

 

I guess that's just the crux of it all, aye? Haha, this might be the most convincing piece of information to allow myself to buy into how Jedi are able to survive almost every large gun fight they are involved in.

 

If all the stormtroopers had even decent aim, the Jedi would either need to surrender more often or not get into as many of those situations, which wouldn't make for good plot progression . I'm able to accept they have little to no training, and are just shoved out there to essentially be cannon fodder.

[tunewalker]

It never states that the Tracer and the Bolt itself arent in about the same location. It would have to be for the Tracer to be at all accurate. Edited July 7, 2014 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Beyond that, Luke saw, there were at least a dozen more shooters crowding toward the doorway. Maybe more. It wasn't as if he had time to do a precise count here—

 

More energy beams cooked the air, scorching past Luke and spearing computer consoles and technicians alike.

 

"Too many of them!" Melan yelled. "This way!"

 

Luke wove a curtain of hard light with his blade, deflecting blaster bolts and driving the attackers back temporarily.

 

--Taken from Shadows of the Empire

 

Here Luke blocks a dozen shooters blaster fire, this was when he was still in training.

 

Jedi Master Voolvif Monn did it.

 

 

Anakin, Obi-Wan, Maul, Sidious, Vader, Dooku, etc, etc.

 

Blocking multiple blaster shots isn't something new or impossible for trained Jedi or Sith. They have superhuman abilities being able to use The Force, that put them well above peak human in speed, reaction time, strength, etc.

 

 

Heck even Zett Jukassa did it and he was only a Padawan

Edited July 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[NYYankee]

As for the speed of the blasters, I chalk that up to it being a movie and there being no good explanation. It's wonderful fun to watch the blaster bolt travel and see it dodged or deflected. It's not as much fun to see an invisible energy beam vaporize something almost instantaneously. It doesn't make any logical sense why the people in the movies use blasters, but I absolutely love the fact that they do.

 

As for not using projectile weapons, the explanation I've come up (I have no clue if this matches up with the official lore) is based on two things:

 

1) Jedi can control matter with the force. If a person were to fire a project weapon at the Jedi, couldn't they deflect or stop the bullets with the force a la The Matrix (

).

 

2) Shield and armor technology. Is it possible the the personal shield generators and armor of the Star Wars universe are more effective against projectiles than energy?

[Wolfninjajedi]

As for the speed of the blasters, I chalk that up to it being a movie and there being no good explanation. It's wonderful fun to watch the blaster bolt travel and see it dodged or deflected. It's not as much fun to see an invisible energy beam vaporize something almost instantaneously. It doesn't make any logical sense why the people in the movies use blasters, but I absolutely love the fact that they do.

 

As for not using projectile weapons, the explanation I've come up (I have no clue if this matches up with the official lore) is based on two things:

 

1) Jedi can control matter with the force. If a person were to fire a project weapon at the Jedi, couldn't they deflect or stop the bullets with the force a la The Matrix (

).

 

2) Shield and armor technology. Is it possible the the personal shield generators and armor of the Star Wars universe are more effective against projectiles than energy?

 

1. Jedi/Sith could do that with blasters too, projectiles/blaster bolt, doesn't make a difference really.

 

2. Yes they are, Slugthrowers are considered outdated/primitive/archaic

 

Unable to obtain traditional blasters because the Hutts control the gun running, these moisture farmers must often resort to outdated and "primitive" projectile weapons to defend themselves.

 

--Taken from The New Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology

 

Blasters > Slugthrowers in a number of ways.

 

There are very few exceptions to this being that weapon companies have made Slugthrowers on par with standard blasters(though this really just seems to be for damage output), but for the most part blasters are superior.

Edited July 7, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Curmedy]

Thanks NYYankee and Wolfninjajedi for your responses!

 

And I definitely agree Wolf, against armored foes and robots blasters are the way to go.

 

However, in terms of Jedi who primarily use robes (and even if there is slight padding under them, the head is completely exposed) I think slugthrowers would still be a vast improvement on them in comparison to blasters.

 

Like I said before, Jedi/Sith having superhuman abilities I totally understand, but to dodge an array of bullets from slugthrowers shooting faster than the speed of sound? That seems unlikely at best, if not improbable at worst.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Thanks NYYankee and Wolfninjajedi for your responses!

 

And I definitely agree Wolf, against armored foes and robots blasters are the way to go.

 

However, in terms of Jedi who primarily use robes (and even if there is slight padding under them, the head is completely exposed) I think slugthrowers would still be a vast improvement on them in comparison to blasters.

 

Like I said before, Jedi/Sith having superhuman abilities I totally understand, but to dodge an array of bullets from slugthrowers shooting faster than the speed of sound? That seems unlikely at best, if not improbable at worst.

 

If blaster bolts are indeed the same speed as slugthrower projectiles, then I just showed you Jedi being able to block/deflect blaster bolts back at the shooter, so it wouldn't be unlikely that they could do that.

 

 

In fact Obi-Wan kinda already did this with Durge who used gatling gauntlets and fired Flechette rounds at him which are high speed projectiles.

 

Shown here.

 

Actually Jedi like Obi-Wan, Anakin and so on have deflected blaster fire from entire armies so...yeah, I'm sure they have the reflexes.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Curmedy]

If blaster bolts are indeed the same speed as slugthrower projectiles, then I just showed you Jedi being able to block/deflect blaster bolts back at the shooter, so it wouldn't be unlikely that they could do that.

 

 

In fact Obi-Wan kinda already did this with Durge who used gatling gauntlets and fired Flechette rounds at him which are high speed projectiles.

 

Shown here.

 

Actually Jedi like Obi-Wan, Anakin and so on have deflected blaster fire from entire armies so...yeah, I'm sure they have the reflexes.

 

Using the force to block with is a no brainer, that totally makes sense. I'm specifically referring to saber movements and the ability for their limbs to move quickly enough to dodge them.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Using the force to block with is a no brainer, that totally makes sense. I'm specifically referring to saber movements and the ability for their limbs to move quickly enough to dodge them.

 

Jedi/Sith have been able to move fast enough to leave behind afterimages of their blades, move fast enough to leave behind trails of light, make shields, webs, etc. They can move fast enough to dodge/block/deflect whatever. This of course if they are well trained enough.

 

In fact due to Slugthrowers being outdated and blasters superior, blaster bolts should well be faster than a bullet from a slugthrower just due to that fact alone.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Curmedy]

Jedi/Sith have been able to move fast enough to leave behind afterimages of their blades, move fast enough to leave behind trails of light, make shields, webs, etc. They can move fast enough to dodge/block/deflect whatever. This of course if they are well trained enough.

 

In fact due to Slugthrowers being outdated and blasters superior, blaster bolts should well be faster than a bullet from a slugthrower just due to that fact alone.

 

I don't understand what leaving behind a trail of light would do, are you saying it would deflect incoming weapon fire? Also what do you mean by shields and webs?

 

I call b.s though on them being able to move fast enough to flat out "dodge" incoming fire. That seems rather flawed because if you were able to move quickly enough to dodge at the speed of sound (and faster), wouldn't it stand to reason you could move your legs that quickly and run at the speed of sound? That seems like it would be more than plausible if you could move that quickly with the rest of your body.

[tunewalker]

I don't understand what leaving behind a trail of light would do, are you saying it would deflect incoming weapon fire? Also what do you mean by shields and webs?

 

I call b.s though on them being able to move fast enough to flat out "dodge" incoming fire. That seems rather flawed because if you were able to move quickly enough to dodge at the speed of sound (and faster), wouldn't it stand to reason you could move your legs that quickly and run at the speed of sound? That seems like it would be more than plausible if you could move that quickly with the rest of your body.

 

Thats the point Wolf is trying to make, several of these jedi move at super human speed. Remember they dont have to be faster then the bolt neccisarily They have a shorter distance to travel to get out of the way then the bolt has to travel to get to them

 

To top this off with faster reflexes then their enemy they could be well on their way to being OUT of the way before the trigger is even pulled and in fact could jsut be out of the way before the trigger is pulled. They dont need to be faster then the shot, they need to be faster then the person doing the shooting with that case.

 

For deflecting shots, he is saying this "Web" means they are moving the sword so quickly at tightly around their body that their are very few if any openings again. Take what I said above about dodging and apply it to using a sword to block and done.

 

Edit:

1:36-1:39

 

The saber is in position moments before the shot is even fired.

Edited July 9, 2014 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

1st off, blaster bolts cannot be blocked by normal human reaction times. Only Jedi/Sith, advanced droid reactions or through intense training that would put someone above normal human, are able to block/deflect back blaster bolts.

 

Also yes there are Jedi that are able to block multiple blaster shots being fired from different shooters. It's not something impossible.

 

The 'beam' you see in the movies is actually the tracer, the actual shot is invisible.

 

The tracer bolt is harmless.

 

As far as the actual speed of a bolt is, that hasn't been determined.

 

You could say that they are of the same speed compared to bullets though..

 

Of course they also may not be, as Slugthrowers(which would be what we have in RL) are considered primitive/outdated/archaic by blaster standards.

 

All in all, there hasn't been a speed said for how fast a blaster bolt moves officially. They are probably faster, but there is no word officially(that I have seen anyway) that states this.

Wow, didn't know that.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Wow, didn't know that.

 

Didn't know which part?

[Varium]

I don't want to make new thread so I ask it here: I always been wondering why are all the blaster wielders rushing toward each other and especially at people with lightsabers, in all the mediums. It just looks really silly and stupid.

Is it because it's easier to get shots through of Jedi/Sith defense from close than from far away?

[Aurbere]

I don't want to make new thread so I ask it here: I always been wondering why are all the blaster wielders rushing toward each other and especially at people with lightsabers, in all the mediums. It just looks really silly and stupid.

Is it because it's easier to get shots through of Jedi/Sith defense from close than from far away?

 

I honestly have no idea.