All 3 ranged DOT specs need reworking

[Master-Nala]

I disagree here to a point, i think the only dot that should have cleanse immunity is crushing darkness. affliction can be instantly re-applied, and creeping terror is a short enough CD to re-apply.

 

Creeping terror is a 9 seconds CD. Cleanse is 4.5 seconds. So if cleanse works on Creeping, then creeping terror is completely nullified.

 

The cleansing system as a whole in this game has ALWAYS been terrible, if you look at basically every other MMO they have cleanses, AOE cleanses, and cleanses that remove everything on a CD(like evasion). I think the cleanse immunity sorcerers and marauders have been handed out were just quick band-aids and a much better solution could have been thought of, but the devs wanted to fix it and shuttup the community.

 

The real answer is that cleanses are just too powerful against specs intended to have the majority of their damage be periodic. Burst specs have no one-button counters. I really don't see where folks have this idea that this is fair for periodic damage which already suffers having to apply it damage over a span of time which makes it easier to heal through.

 

I know it's great to not have to worry about a spec at all. That was the case for my Balance Sage against other Balance/Madness players. But it invalidates the spec and there's no justification for that.

[Rambeezy]

It is interesting how dot classes will naturally fall outside of the realm every other class lives in when it comes to damage dealt requiring los. Certainly there are ways to counter this, los them and heal through dots or range and los them before they can cast on you thus bringing them further out into the open where we can burst them into oblivion. But their ability to manipulate los certainly seems like an easier strategy than what we would have to do as non dot classes. So how could those of us in the realm of normality be compensated in a way that doesn't make dot classes inferior to us again? Increase our range to 35 meters while leaving dot specs at 30 meters.

[ekolan]

It is interesting how dot classes will naturally fall outside of the realm every other class lives in when it comes to damage dealt requiring los. Certainly there are ways to counter this, los them and heal through dots or range and los them before they can cast on you thus bringing them further out into the open where we can burst them into oblivion. But their ability to manipulate los certainly seems like an easier strategy than what we would have to do as non dot classes. So how could those of us in the realm of normality be compensated in a way that doesn't make dot classes inferior to us again? Increase our range to 35 meters while leaving dot specs at 30 meters.

 

I've seen some funny 1v1's where Sorcs get full dots running then barrier early just to stay full health, get enduring bastion, then redot whenever they come out.. kind of funny, and a good strat at the same time.

[Tevzz]

I've seen some funny 1v1's where Sorcs get full dots running then barrier early just to stay full health, get enduring bastion, then redot whenever they come out.. kind of funny, and a good strat at the same time.

 

Yeah a good strat but one that doesn't require any skill at all, and that your opponent can't really counter if they have no purge ability. When madness sorcs do that it's an easy 25-30% of your HP off especially if they have death field on you, which they should. At least, I guess you could argue that their squishiness makes up for it, but I wonder if that would be very relevant in the case where they decide to LoS and pillar hug

[Tevzz]

In a world where melee specs have significant gap closers, and extreme CC, no it doesn't.

 

So 1 baseline ability on a 15seconds CD is a significant gap closer? The only specs that you could potentially say have "significant gap closers" are Carnage because of predation and possibly the root break on Camo and Smash because of the two leaps. I'd also like to know what these extreme forms of CC are...the melee spec with the most CC is a jug tank with 2 hard stuns, 1 push and an AoE CC while being the spec with the lowest DPS. Or a retarded 0/21/25 2.8 sin hybrid that lets you get low slash and the instant whirlwind, but the dmg output is awful so it isn't even worth running.

 

 

Death Field, Affliction and Creeping are internal. Crushing Darkness, Force Lightning, and Lightning Strike are energy and mitigated by armor. The latter three make up more than half the damage. So nope.

 

You have a point there.

 

The main buffs in 2.8 went to Assassins. Sorcerers got a slight bump for Creeping and a boost to Force Lightning when Creeping is applied. There's not a big difference between 2.7 and 2.8, so what are you seeing that suggest to you that there is?

 

Well first of all the number of sorcs I see suggests that there's been a BIG improvement to the dmg output. Ironically, in terms of proportions I see more DPS sorcs specced madness than DPS sins specced madness, even though the latter got buffed a lot more and can dish out a lot more damage now.

 

I think the 25% dmg boost to force lightning is underrated...ticks that crit go for 2.1k+ dmg, and I've already been hit with 2.5k ticks LOL dunno if it was a relic proc or something but for a spammable ability that also applies a slow I find that to be very good damage.

[HuaRya]

Without getting into the nitty gritty mechanics of it and just experiencing the fights first hand, in an 8 v 8 if one team has two dedicated healers they can easily out heal the damage the ranged dots do. Especially if their team includes self healing classes like jugg/guardian.

 

---IMBALANCE---

[Rambeezy]

Without getting into the nitty gritty mechanics of it and just experiencing the fights first hand, in an 8 v 8 if one team has two dedicated healers they can easily out heal the damage the ranged dots do. Especially if their team includes self healing classes like jugg/guardian.

 

---IMBALANCE---

 

Cause we all know that every warzone has 2 healers or every warzone has nobody defending or every warzone never has 1v1s or every arena has 2 healers. The moment you start bringing in other classes abilities to balance your own class is the moment a game goes to ****.

[yOboSayO]

Perhaps its your playstyle that is making you think this way, im not sure what class you play often, and i understand there is a lot of knockbacks and stuns, however every class has a knockback and/or stun... you just gotta learn not to be kited like a knob, and all class has dots... slow and stun abilities so you can go up face to face melee combat... utilize those abilities perhaps? Also not to mention regardless of ranged or melee class your dots, is range o_O majority of em, the way i see it with your situation is that when your being dotted up and kited, you keep running aimlessly towards them not stunning / slowing them or using any defensive CDs while they just dot shoot LOS

 

For healers not able to heal through dots, that really depends on how many dots you have on you xD and also if the healer is paying attention or not

[yOboSayO]

Also remember PvP = Player vs Pillar, so the players that do hump or "hide" and you can't do any damage to them because you fail to use slow abilities to catch up or stuns, doesn't mean that the dots need to be reworked, it just means that you havent developed the knowledge of how to stop players from humping a pillar

[Tevzz]

Perhaps its your playstyle that is making you think this way, im not sure what class you play often, and i understand there is a lot of knockbacks and stuns, however every class has a knockback and/or stun... you just gotta learn not to be kited like a knob, and all class has dots... slow and stun abilities so you can go up face to face melee combat... utilize those abilities perhaps? Also not to mention regardless of ranged or melee class your dots, is range o_O majority of em, the way i see it with your situation is that when your being dotted up and kited, you keep running aimlessly towards them not stunning / slowing them or using any defensive CDs while they just dot shoot LOS

 

For healers not able to heal through dots, that really depends on how many dots you have on you xD and also if the healer is paying attention or not

 

Relax...I know how to play my classes and have very few problems in 1v1 against dot classes considering I run the game at 1.7fps during fights and when I pop predation I see myself teleporting around the screen (Beast pc ftw!!!). Name me a ranged dot on a Mara/Jugg pliz...(except Deadly Saber->Dual Saber Throw, but that isn't even considered as a dot or the amazing thing called "Draining Scream" Vengeance jugs get that ticks for 100 dmg LOL) .

 

I don't mind dots but I mind the dmg they do for the very little setup they require...added to the fact that the strongest DoT specs also have the biggest range on them. In reality, I think that much of that stems from the fact that I mostly queue solo without a healer on my team and once I'm dotted that HP is gonna be lost and I can't do much about it. With a good healer, DoT classes are nowhere near as much of a problem

Edited July 9, 2014 by Tevzz

[Raazmir]

You mean the setup of 3 globals + a channel + another global?

[yOboSayO]

so then your problem is, not enough healers queing xD nothing to really do with the dots xD

[Raazmir]

You mean the setup of 3 globals + a channel + another global?

 

 

Because i'm pretty sure leap gore berserk ravage does more in less time.

[Adovir]

Because i'm pretty sure leap gore berserk ravage does more in less time.

 

The difference is that that can be stopped through CC/knock back

[Raazmir]

And the dot spec takes 18 seconds and that setup to do less damage. Plus interrupts/cc/knockbacks mess up that rotation as well, lock them out of force lightning, land the interrupt on an early tic and they'll have to hard cast to apply the third dot, which wont be free, boosted, or instant cast, so you can interrupt/cc/knockback that as well.

[Rambeezy]

so then your problem is, not enough healers queing xD nothing to really do with the dots xD

 

I dont think healers not queueing is a problem that should be brought up when working out class balance within the game. IMO only ranged single target burst specs have legitimate complaints against the lawl dot run strategy which is why ranged single target burst should be at 35 m range and ranged dot specs should be at 30m. You can never design a fix for los nor should you try to design a fix for los but you can make it so that dot specs are very reliant on los. I mean, they do it anyways, why not make it a permanent thing.

[Tevzz]

Because i'm pretty sure leap gore berserk ravage does more in less time.

 

Yes, and Leap->Gore->Ravage lands what percentage of the time exactly? Thought so -_-

 

Dotting up a target and pillar hugging it to LOS, be it a ranged or melee target, is much easier and more efficient than "leap gore berserk ravage" since the target can't prevent it unless they waste their Purge...if they have one at all.

 

And the dot spec takes 18 seconds and that setup to do less damage. Plus interrupts/cc/knockbacks mess up that rotation as well, lock them out of force lightning, land the interrupt on an early tic and they'll have to hard cast to apply the third dot, which wont be free, boosted, or instant cast, so you can interrupt/cc/knockback that as well.

 

Sure, lock out Force Lightning...and then waste a CC/Mezz/knockback (That's probably on a MUCH longer CD) to stop Hard Casted Crushing darkness? LOL GG

 

I agree with locking them out of Force Lightning tho, that IS the best thing you can do, since it's one of their biggest sources of damage, but if you waste a stun/CC to stop CrD after that, that's not a smart move.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Tevzz