Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I was not talking about when the next update is released. I am talking about right now. In which case http://www.swtor.com/gameupdates/the-dread-war came out in october of last year. (DF/DP) 8 months ago http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/242014/game-update-2.6-galactic-starfighter officially launched in February. 4 months ago... No offense but that's actually laughable. Willful ignorance. How does it change the fact that we're in June, when we already know that nothing is coming around October, concerning new operations, flashpoints outside tactical ones or daily areas? How does it change that a full year(!!!) will have gone by without a single one of those? Surely the epitome of self-denial. We can discuss the status of all this when 2.9 comes out when we actually know what is coming in 2.9. We already know it has more then just Strongholds since it includes the 2nd part of the new storyline. So discussing dates for when that comes out is pointless at the moment. So, in other words... When you resort to Bioware supposedly claiming that the level-increase expansion is still coming this year is ok, yet I can't do the same based on their own(!!!) Roadmap for Strongholds? Allow me. Again though. You continue to assume because we have not gotten news that the 2nd expansion is delayed. I keep waiting for you to say when they brought up the second expansion in an update, other than in the Producer's Roadmap. Are you going to? Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I will gladly take GSF and 3 tactical flashpoints [especially the invasion ones, kuat ...meh] over more click terminal dailies, ignoring NIM as content for PVE isn't fair unless your ok with dropping NIM all together for a faster SM /HM pace, because new content is new content and still needs dev time and testing time. HM flash points I would love to see more of but the truth is they don't pop and nobody does them [i think its the lack of rewards] so we get tacticals that will at least get you a group in under 5 mins Unfortunately, you're a minority. The vast majority of players are not playing GSF and it's doubtful many are even doing the stupid tactical FPs since I can't get a queue to pop for those in over an hour. Personally, I would prefer content that keeps people playing. GSF failed in that regard for most. So in hindsight, I would have preferred a new daily area. And I'll gladly forgo NiM versions for faster Ops development. NiM appeals to far too few players to delay new Ops that would be engaging for MOST players. as for declining populations... its swtor we have seen worse and im sure the devs are a lot more aware of the concurrent population, subscriber base, and micro transaction revenue than any of us are. they took the gamble with focusing resources on GSF / strong holds. personally I think the game will be in a lot better place with diverse content by the end of the year. but we will see Unlike you, I believe this game is at its lowest point since launch (in terms of both content stagnation and lowest pop) - 2 years ago the low pop could be blamed on the numerous servers...today, that excuse is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Unlike you, I believe this game is at its lowest point since launch (in terms of both content stagnation and lowest pop) - 2 years ago the low pop could be blamed on the numerous servers...today, that excuse is gone. Beaches. I'm sure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goukakyuu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 The reason WoW continues on in the market place is that they continue to reharvest their prior installed base. As long as WoW veterans respond to their incentives to come back and play again (even if only for 3-4 months at a time) ... they will likely continue to do so. It's much easier to draw back an MMO player who has 4-5 years of invested time and effort in their characters. IF WoW launched today.... it would not survive as a sub-only model. Which proves that installed base in MMOs is a valid target for marketing incentives. Actually a sub-only model is more than viable and way more appealing to a gamer because it tells them that a game that can maintain such a hard-to-attain model is a GOOD one. SWTOR failed at doing that. WoW has released nothing for almost a year. Yet I still see they have MILLIONS of subs, so they must be doing things right over there. The devs should be taking some notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Actually a sub-only model is more than viable and way more appealing to a gamer because it tells them that a game that can maintain such a hard-to-attain model is a GOOD one. SWTOR failed at doing that. Yet I still see they have MILLIONS of subs, so they must be doing things right over there. The devs should be taking some notes. WoW DID something right by releasing early and getting people "stuck" in their game. I know a lot of people who only continue to play because of the negative feelings of basically loosing their months (actual login time) of playtime Edited June 25, 2014 by ninjonxb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Wow announced their expansion way earlier, and unlike some people in the forum I believe announcing content early help with retention rates big time. With Swtor I don't know anything about 2.9 other than housing and guild ships. No clue on 3.0, and no clue on expansion. To be fair, Maybe they don't announce because there is nothing to announce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goukakyuu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Wow announced their expansion way earlier, and unlike some people in the forum I believe announcing content early help with retention rates big time. With Swtor I don't know anything about 2.9 other than housing and guild ships. No clue on 3.0, and no clue on expansion. To be fair, Maybe they don't announce because there is nothing to announce Because there is almost never anything to announce. Usually when you see them tease or announce something, it pertains to the cash shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Wow announced their expansion way earlier, and unlike some people in the forum I believe announcing content early help with retention rates big time. With Swtor I don't know anything about 2.9 other than housing and guild ships. No clue on 3.0, and no clue on expansion. To be fair, Maybe they don't announce because there is nothing to announce 2.9 will also include the second part of Forged Alliances, a new story arc that got people so excited that ALMOST no one even talks about story anymore. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluejayoo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am so confused... all of these people say the game is dead, there is nothing to do... and yet I am having fun? How could this be? How could my guild have things to do during everyone of our weekly runs. How, after months and months of playing, could I be enjoying the story lines of alts I just started. The Redditors have spoken! The game is worthless! A boring mash of stale content and lack of updates! I must be mad, there is no other explanation for it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I am so confused... all of these people say the game is dead, there is nothing to do... and yet I am having fun? How could this be? How could my guild have things to do during everyone of our weekly runs. How, after months and months of playing, could I be enjoying the story lines of alts I just started. The Redditors have spoken! The game is worthless! A boring mash of stale content and lack of updates! I must be mad, there is no other explanation for it... The only ones feeling a content drought would be in my opinion the ones who've been here since launch or have seen almost all there is to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Kind of a circle jerk going on here... The majority of players never achieve what that redditor is talking of - 5 fully-gear alts - because most people don't have the incredible amount of spare time that requires. The "hardcore" raiders (a laughable term compared to what it used to mean in old games: permadeath) need to understand that they are the minority, always will be the minority, and need to recognize the pattern here: in EVERY MMO I'VE EVER PLAYED the hardcore community never had enough content. EVER. Guilds were always breaking up for lack of things to do, blah blah blah. Get it through your heads, just because you ran the race ten times faster than Joe Public, that doesn't mean it makes sense for a game studio to try to crank out content at a rate sufficient to please you. You may now return to your regularly scheduled complaint session. +1 From release at December 2011 to October 2013 there were 6 operations released (KP, EC, TfB, SnV, DF and DP). That is an average of 3.5 months per operation. If you treat DF/DP into a single operation, that is still 4.5 months per operation, quite respectable. The problem is that "hardcore" raiders run those operations on the PTS while available and then crush the live content in a couple of weeks. They then have "nothing to do" for three or four months except gear up. Honestly I empathize with the "hardcore" crowd. I used to be a "hardcore" raider, but that was more than a decade ago now. Back then there were no PTS's, or guides or videos, and when content went live it was a bug-fest (FYI talking about EQ1). So running raids five or six nights a week was a necessity...if you wanted to progress at all, let alone be "hardcore." Now with PTSs and guides and videos and relatively bug free live content (you thought 2.8 was bad, when I played EQ1 EVERY content upgrade (AKA expansion) was an adventure in bugs; it usually took a week or more to get the game stable), any guild with any sense of wanting to "progress" can do so by raiding one or two nights a week. What you (and the person that agreed with you) are missing, is that even though the OP of that thread is reasonably hardcore - many, many of the people replying to him and stating that their guilds are starting to suffer from the same issues...are not. Eventually, if we don't get new classes..or class stories...etc - even the most casual among us is going to run out of things to do. This isn't just a hardcore problem anymore. (I'm a PvPer, btw. Standing up for you PvE folks that are having guild attrition issues because I know exactly how you feel.) Respectfully disagree. I consider myself to be casual-core - play a lot but do not obsess over anything in game. Since launch, I have completed five of the eight class stories, just recently did the Makeb story on Imp side for the first time, have not done CZ or Oricon on Imp side yet, and have only just started creating characters in the other AC. In other words, at the pace I am currently at, it will probably take me oh five more years to do everything there is to do for a casual player to accomplish...without raiding. Fortunately, not every player is an "endgame" player. In fact, "end game" players are generally not the majority in any MMO. For a game that is two and a half years old, SWTOR has as much, if not more "end game" content than any other MMO at that point in its lifespan. As much as players like to ignore the fact, you cannot compare 4, 8, 10, 15, or 20 years of content and development to 1, 2, or 3 years of content or development. Agreed. Just look to the king of the hill - WoW. Two years in they had just released the first expansion: the Burning Crusade. Vanilla/Legacy had five total raid areas (only two of which were done with any regularity, the rest were for the "hardcore" crowd) and TBC introduced three but they were gated (needed to complete them in order because you needed items from one to access the next) so the overwhelming majority only had access to one. lol its funny how easily people ignore facts, just because "raiders" or "PVPers" want to keep saying there has been no new content all year does not make it true. just because you don't like GSF, burnt your self out on kuat trying to level to 55 in a weekend and think "tactical flashpoints are stupid" does not mean that new playable content and a ton of balance / quality of life changes have not been consistently added to the game since ROTHC launched in april 2013, only a little over a year ago. though the last patch was weak and some of the content hasn't been the best like the bounty event, and I wasn't a fan of turning the rakghoul event into a click 5 quests off a terminal daily area that swtor has turned into but strongholds / guild ships hopefully will be a awesome addition to the game and we will most likely see a rise in the level cap by the end of the year or shortly after, 2-4 months. in short swtor is not only about raiding even though "raiders" think the mmo world begins and ends with them, personally I think the devs already cater way to much exclusive content, rewards, and credit faucets to raiders in this game backed by the very true facts that raiders get secret bosses, unique mounts / titles and the easiest access to high end crafting materials and schematics on top of having the best gear to make other content lol face roll easy. and yet they still whine and complain +1 And yet WoW still maintains millions of subscribers while SWTOR is losing more and more every month... WoW at its peak had 13 million subscribers. It has lost more than a third of that - down to 8 million. Now does what you statement imply make any sense now? Because unlike SWTOR, WoW releases content regularly. Yeah, mad rush for a year, then announce the next expansion and NOTHING for the next year. That's how regular WoW releases raid content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Wow announced their expansion way earlier, and unlike some people in the forum I believe announcing content early help with retention rates big time. With Swtor I don't know anything about 2.9 other than housing and guild ships. No clue on 3.0, and no clue on expansion. To be fair, Maybe they don't announce because there is nothing to announce we actually know the new expansion after housing will be makeb-like, and its rumored to bring a level increase because it was confirmed a level increase was on the way at the Boulder Cantina Tour, either way though they have diverted a lot of effort to those upcoming expansions so who knows it might be worth it considering all the time and effort they have put into that. They might also be holding back content til that point because if they increase the level cap it would save everyone time and effort if they didn't have to boost its level later, and so that way endgame would not be empty at the new level teir. Edited June 25, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 2.9 will also included the second part of Forged Alliances, a new story arc that got people so excited that ALMOST no one even talks about story anymore. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) we actually know the new expansion after housing will be makeb-like, and its rumored to bring a level increase because it was confirmed a level increase was on the way at the Boulder Cantina Tour, either way though they have diverted a lot of effort to those upcoming expansions so who knows it might be worth it considering all the time and effort they have put into that. They might also be holding back content til that point because if they increase the level cap it would save everyone time and effort if they didn't have to boost its level later, and so that way endgame would not be empty at the new level teir. Stop saying the expansion is coming. Bioware hasn't given any details except for those tidbits so obviously it isn't coming this year. Bioware hasn't said that it isn't coming this year so obviously that means it isn't coming this year. Obviously unless Bioware says on a weekly basis that the expansion is coming this year it suddenly is no longer coming this year. Edited June 25, 2014 by ninjonxb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I think that this trickle content cadence is starting to bite this game on it's toosh. That plus the BW pathological fear of "overhyping" what they do. The PR philosophy is a disastrous knee-jerk reaction to the mythic trauma they apparently suffered. What they did with WHO wasn't smart but this "not till we're ready AKA not till a month before shipping" is just as bad if not worse. They keep it so close to their chests they fail to make people excited about subbing/staying subbed, which is a problem given the fact every half a year a new shiny MMO gets launched. A game like WoW can afford to keep players in the dark about a lot of things because it's money in the bank an Xpac will drop in a certain time frame holding a comparative ton of gated endgame content that will last months not days. And even they talk more about their housing even when ours is due to drop sooner. We have 2 sentences to cling on to in 2014. Makeb sized expansion and an announcement. Yeah.... TOR players are basically the proverbial jewish kids on Christmas lol. Edited June 25, 2014 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Stop saying the expansion is coming. Bioware hasn't given any details except for those tidbits so obviously it is coming this year. Bioware hasn't said that it isn't coming this year so obviously that means it isn't coming this year. Obviously unless Bioware says on a weekly basis that the expansion is coming this year it suddenly is no longer coming this year. In other words, instead of providing a link where Bioware clearly states that the Expansion is still coming this year, other than the Producer's Roadmap, you go for that route. It's like Galactic Strongholds wasn't delayed for an additional two months, not to mention some stuff pertaining GSF, which was delayed indefinitely(!!!). Insightful but also predictable. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Stop saying the expansion is coming. Bioware hasn't given any details except for those tidbits so obviously it isn't coming this year. Bioware hasn't said that it isn't coming this year so obviously that means it isn't coming this year. Obviously unless Bioware says on a weekly basis that the expansion is coming this year it suddenly is no longer coming this year. I said it was coming, I NEVER said it was coming this year, but it is coming at some point after housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) In other words, instead of providing a link where Bioware clearly states that the Expansion is still coming this year, other than the Producer's Roadmap, you go for that route. It's like Galactic Strongholds wasn't delayed for an additional two months, not to mention some stuff pertaining GSF, which was delayed indefinitely(!!!). Insightful but also predictable. You can easily argue those push-backs could have in fact been made precisely to ensure the expansion still hits the target date by moving additional manpower from these to that project. It's really a senseless argument. Edited June 25, 2014 by aeterno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Why are you defending the use of spoof accounts? Why are you pretending to know it's fake? You know for a fact, an indisputable FACT that it's a spoof account? How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I'm fairly certain the devs are aware of the thread, and all the ones made here. What the devs need to do, in my estimation, is to let Eric or Tait or this new wild Hillary thing tell us what they intend to do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 It's like Galactic Strongholds wasn't delayed for an additional two months, not to mention some stuff pertaining GSF, which was delayed indefinitely(!!!). ^^^THIS^^^ Stop pretending like we're still on track. GSH wasn't delayed a freaking week or two, it was TWO MONTHS! That kind of a delay changes release schedules. But no worries...we get to have GSH rolled out over THREE update cycles still cuz that's what this game needed for content!!! YAY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) You can easily argue those push-backs could have in fact been made precisely to ensure the expansion still hits the target date by moving additional manpower from these to that project. It's really a senseless argument. Claiming that delaying Strongholds for an additional two months may have caused the other expansion to be delayed is not senseless, but rather both rational and reasonable. Also, I know people are adamant in refusing to acknowledging reality around these parts but here: (...) There is one change to our development cadence I would like to share: In order to increase our testing time before Game Updates, we are going to move to a 3 week cycle between minor patches, instead of two weeks. While this does mean we are moving to a 9 week cadence for the major content updates, we feel the benefit of catching pesky bugs and improving quality is worth it and we remain committed to hitting our deadlines for all of our major content updates this year. (...) Official release for Strongholds is October 14. If 3.0 is meant to hit this year still, it will be around December 16... Right before Christmas. That does seem a logical scenario, truth be told, not to mention having them releasing two digital expansions back-to-back. Again, the denial is STRONG around here. Edited June 25, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ^^^THIS^^^ Stop pretending like we're still on track. GSH wasn't delayed a freaking week or two, it was TWO MONTHS! That kind of a delay changes release schedules. But no worries...we get to have GSH rolled out over THREE update cycles still cuz that's what this game needed for content!!! YAY!!!! Look TUXs, until they come out and say it's been delayed then I will continue to operate under the assumption that it is still coming by the end of the year. I recognize that because of GSH it's possible that it has also been delayed but until they come out and say otherwise we can expect to see it by the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston_Violent Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 2.9 will also include the second part of Forged Alliances, a new story arc that got people so excited that ALMOST no one even talks about story anymore. Damn true! Got no luck with Cytharat, got brushed off by Darth Whatever from Forged Alliances Part 1....so Part Deux, yeah whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanerb Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 ^^^THIS^^^ Stop pretending like we're still on track. GSH wasn't delayed a freaking week or two, it was TWO MONTHS! That kind of a delay changes release schedules. But no worries...we get to have GSH rolled out over THREE update cycles still cuz that's what this game needed for content!!! YAY!!!! I think it was at least 2 months ago probably more they said in a cantina event that level cap increase will be announced very soon.(I saw it in a chat transcript at dulfy). that didn't happen And then producer's roapmap was a total disaster. It did not say anything. It was not a roadmap at all, which in my opinion is a sign that everything is delayed if not cancelled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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