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Imperial PVE guild Summit


bluecheesebandit

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Second update:

 

The plan is to use Ordo Imperialis' Teamspeak. The server address for their channel is ts.ordoimperialis.com, and there is no password. Keep in mind that the server is "push-to-talk enforced" as its a pretty big server. If you have voice activated on, you'll have to change it to push to talk. There is an in-game channel that we are using, please contact one of the GMs listed here or myself for details. We will be meeting Saturday at 7pm server time. I ask that all who wish to participate read the google doc and check out http://www.leftoversraiding.org before the event takes place.

 

UPDATE!!!!

 

I want to keep this ball rolling, so I'm looking at this Saturday if we get enough people on board or next Saturday if it feels like we can reach significantly more people with an extra week. I should be on most of the afternoon and evening. I've created a google doc detailing exactly what I envision. I left (or tried to leave) comments enabled, so feel free to comment on it with additions or suggestions you all have so that it can be pretty well polished by Saturday. So far, Ordo's teamspeak might be our best bet as a voice server, I'll be whispering GMs and giving them a name of an in-game channel as well that GMs and officers of guilds can use to continue this dialogue after the actual summit has taken place.

 

Link to google doc:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JF2VpEBwDZkAP3smM_XxuIH8Tb3QDXgMoJW8MeuQ278/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

Abstract: I want to create an endgame PVE community which is heavily integrated thoughout the whole server to allow for more and better raiding.

 

To introduce myself, I'm Yovakka, an officer of Dark Hunters and have been on this server for almost a year. In this time, I've really gotten into raiding and would consider myself semi-hardcore with a bit of a penchant to chase more NiM achievements with groups. I've definitely noticed that Begeren Colony's reputation as a PVE guild is a bit below stellar compared to others. In general I've found that all of the serious endgamers have left for Harbinger. Recently there was a thread where someone wanted to join the server for endgame progression, and was pretty much told: “no, go to a better server”.

 

I saw something that Leafy_Bug was doing over on TOFN is organizing a “guild summit”. Fortunately for them, Leafy is an awesome PVP and PVEr, who has toons on both Republic and Imperial side. Unfortunately for the Republic side and you PVPers, I lack both of those, so if you would like to start a separate summit for PVP and for pubs go ahead, but I'm not going to be able to facilitate any of that due to lack of knowledge and toons.

 

I've collected a few names of Imperial PVE guilds and their guildmasters, the goal is to have as many PVE guilds and their officers and GMs present. We can either do the summit via a private message on the forums, or more preferably in game with a voice chat system and private channel.

 

To lay it out more cleanly: our problem is that the quality of endgame raiding is low right now. I find a lot of people these days wanting to move into HM and NiM content, but lack the teams and bodies to fill those spots. Basically, I only see a few guilds making serious attempts at NiM DF and DP, and I think there are a lot of people who would like to try their hand at it with a team. I think that also, as a server, we could do a lot better job of helping to educate “SM raiders”, people who like raiding, but aren't really all that great at it yet because they've never made a serious attempt at getting better. Grabbing people out of fleet chat to fill a 16man SM is always kind of a crap shoot, and knowing whether somebody in full oriconian gear is actually pulling their weight is always a guessing game.

 

So with those problems mentioned, I think we need to look towards solutions as a community, and hear suggestions on what can be done to eliminate the guessing games and create an atmosphere where when you have someone missing in your prog team, there are 5 people that say they can come replace the person missing and you can choose which person will be the best fit. This is designed to be a server-wide solution which eliminates the need of a guild tag: sure, guilds are great but to be a part of a great raiding community they are hardly necessary.

 

The three solutions that pop into my mind are to create an in-game channel (or multiple channels) where we can pull people off of to fill raids, instead of relying on hanging out on the fleet. The second is to all come to one place together to schedule all our raids and announce whether or not we need people for a particular week in combination with the first. This would be a much cleaner solution, allowing a whole server to get into PUG HM raids: ops leaders would choose people they want to go much earlier than the spur of the moment. The third addition to the solution would be to use current guild websites to schedule raids,but raise awareness of all of each others raids.

 

I'm going to list a few guilds who I think may be interested, and add notes as to whether or not I've talked to them yet or not. I'll also be trying to list in-game GM and some officer names to make it easier for people to contact one another.

 

Guild PVE list: help me list all the bigger and/or good PVE guilds on Imperial side

Dark Hunters(host's guild) – Madelene(GM) http://darkhunters-swtor.enjin.com/

FiRe(spoke to GM, they're game) - Quinta'wan(GM)

Sith Praxium – Yudonza(GM) http://sithpraxium.enjin.com/

Tomb of Sorrows(spoke to leaders, they're game) – Cedaa(GM) Ny'lora(coGM) http://tombofsorrows.enjin.com/

Quorum(spoke with GM at length, they're game) – Lastplace(GM) http://quorum-tor.enjin.com/

Contra Sanctus – Fluxx (GM) http://sanctusx.enjin.com/

Imperial Northwestern Front(spoke to both listed, they're game) - Vallyn(GM) Scottie(O) http://inwf.enjin.com/

Dendarii Mercenary Fleet(he's in!) – Rixbo(GM) http://dendarii.enjin.com/

Living Drama Free(talked to, is game) – Zeadiless(GM)

Ordo Imperialis(They're game) - Magnis-arcum(O) Inferna(GM) http://www.ordoimperialis.com/

Children of the Dark Side – Aindranla(O) http://childrenofthedarkside.guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=478386&TabID=4124690

Legion of Beasts(spoke to GM, they're game) - Das'beast(GM) http://thelegionofbeasts.guildlaunch.com/

The Betrayed(they're game) - Necronomicon(GM) http://stothebetrayed.enjin.com/members

Darkest Hour(co-host guild for event) - Rattlehead (GM)

Dark Clan Warriors(co-host guild for event) - PersausDCW (GM) Annoyed(coGM) Puttytat (coGM)

Harlequin Crew - Adiira + Danalli

Children of the Dark Side(is attending) - Sinistaros(GM)

Empire Rises - Brel'an(O) Castellan(O) Johnfett(O) http://empire-rises.enjin.com/home

Deadly Obsession(is attending) - Kres'olaro'nyx (coGM) Ri'us(coGM) Morainur(coGM)

True Mandalorians(will attend) - Sethirr(O)

 

I will continue to update this list as more and more guilds contact me and wish to take part in the summit, and some of this information may be outdated. I'll be contacting as many people as possible and you may see me on fleet. If you do not wish to be a part of my silliness, I will by all means delete your guild information and name from this thread, then promptly ignore all of your guild members in-game. :rak_09:

 

Lets start the discussion here, and within a few days decide where we want to move the official summit to, if any guild would like to host it on a voice server. Please give me feedback with any suggestions you have, here or in game.

Edited by bluecheesebandit
Didn't sum up the post.
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I like the idea behind this thread.

 

For starters, two things:

 

1. Contra Sanctus is basically dead now. What's left has moved Pubside or has joined up with Tomb of Sorrows.

2. There is another set of small raiders, from the guild <Unzip Thud>. They relatively keep to themselves, but would probably be more than happy to fill in for certain roles for operations that aren't the Dread Ops HM/possibly NiM where they don't have to use lockouts. I'm sure if you guys sent them a message/asked them to join in this discussion, we can make something happen.

 

Overall, the main problem that the end game progression community has here on BC is relatively simple: terrible operations group compositions and RL issues or guild drama preventing consistent raid teams from existing.

 

Let's go with the first part of that problem: terrible raid comps. There are way too many people playing the classes and specs that are not optimal for raiding, where Deception Assassins, Lightning Sorcs, and Arsenal Mercs reign supreme for DPS overall. As for healers, I have yet to be apart of a raid group impside that actively uses a Merc for heals, where the best healer combination for the Dread Ops is Merc + Op. And for tanking, my CS and ToS group who I have spent half a year working with in the progression content and have only recently been with ToS to put DF and DP HM on farm, have utilized the worst composition of "double sin tanks", with op and Sorc heals. Without a bursty Merc to help focus on the sin tanks (Merc heals is the perfect counterbalance to the weaknesses of a sin tank) and Sorc heals that don't actively shine well enough without the group size being more than 8, I can whole heartedly say that we're going into the operations on a level that puts us at around 70%, instead of the full 100% that can possibly make clearing the content child's play. However, I guess this could be only my group's main problem, but I'm willing to wager that because most of the replacement spots I have been able to fill are usually non optimal DPS and Sorc heals, the server's elite Impside isn't exactly on the best of this concept either.

 

Most of the raid teams I have seen and been apart of have very problematic issues in regards to how everyone's schedules mix together. Whether it's someone having internet issues at the same time another has to afk for things such as picking up family/friends from work, most raid teams I've been apart of rarely go through an entire night where the only break in combat/progressing is the agreeded upon "10 minute break". Not to mention, how many raid teams have fallen apart because main tanks, top DPS, or top healers suddenly have RL issues preventing them from playing the game anymore/for an extended period of time, which is felt heavily in an 8 man team of raiders where having replacements is basically unheard of in anything besides average DPS.

 

Secondly, guild drama. A lot of people essentially have a mixture of personalities, which is fine. But the main problems I see stemming from the players in the two guilds I have been apart of have been in regards to the question, "clearing content or having fun?"

 

Ultimately, CS basically crashed and burned under an even split between the raid team on that matter, where ultimately, the sparking fire came from a healer who was benched and decided to start blaming the raid leaders/other stronger raid team members for taking the guild away from its goals over making improvements, effectively turning the pubside guild against the uncertain raid team (there were really only 2 people that actively supported the team's need for more strict behavior in boss fights, the others wanted to avoid picking a side in an attempt to avoid the drama). And with Tomb of Sorrows, our Harbinger DPS player that was top DPS ended up leaving because of issues regarding guild members' personal treatment of the game and raiding, where many people felt the atmosphere was too negative to have fun clearing the content. Which, to give an update, ToS is still doing fine as we have replaced him and have been using the recent time farming DF and DP HM to gear up our replacements in preparation for our Thursday run on NiM DF.

 

So as a suggestion based on my experience with raiding guilds so far, I think it may be best to make sure that we also discuss how each guild specifically treats the game's progression content and make sure everyone knows what to expect whenever they fill in for a team they aren't normally apart of. Are these players more strict, will bluntly call out people if they mess up and openly criticize areas/roles that are slacking in a fight, and present a competitive environment over one that is lighthearted in an effort to focus more on downing content?

 

Or do you have the flip side, where a set of players won't really criticize anyone, won't call out anyone even if they may need a little bit of a wakeup call, and strive to maintain a positive and happy atmosphere over a competitive one, choosing to maintain "fun" over efficient boss clears?

 

One of the main problems towards our server is how well people can play nice with each other, as some of the remaining veterans can easily agree on no matter the medium of the game. So in order to help achieve that goal should we begin to work with each other, we should make sure we know how each and every one of us treats the game and what our goals are in regards to "progression level raiding".

Edited by ZooMzy
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Ordo Imperialis should be their with me the Ops co and either our Chapter Commander or Guild Commander. I am willing to participate any means necessary(ts, vent ,forums, etc...).

 

ps:please ignore the name never wanted to keep it

Edited by IKILLYOUFOOL
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I like the idea behind this thread.

 

For starters, two things:

 

1. Contra Sanctus is basically dead now. What's left has moved Pubside or has joined up with Tomb of Sorrows.

2. There is another set of small raiders, from the guild <Unzip Thud>. They relatively keep to themselves, but would probably be more than happy to fill in for certain roles for operations that aren't the Dread Ops HM/possibly NiM where they don't have to use lockouts. I'm sure if you guys sent them a message/asked them to join in this discussion, we can make something happen.

 

Awesome, thanks so much for replying Zuhara! I did a /who on <Unzip Thud> and no dice. They certainly must be keeping to themselves because I've never heard of them before. EDIT: oh wait, duh, yeah I know Scrum at least. And thanks for the update on Contra, I knew I hadn't seen them around as much.

 

So as a suggestion based on my experience with raiding guilds so far, I think it may be best to make sure that we also discuss how each guild specifically treats the game's progression content and make sure everyone knows what to expect whenever they fill in for a team they aren't normally apart of. Are these players more strict, will bluntly call out people if they mess up and openly criticize areas/roles that are slacking in a fight, and present a competitive environment over one that is lighthearted in an effort to focus more on downing content?

 

Or do you have the flip side, where a set of players won't really criticize anyone, won't call out anyone even if they may need a little bit of a wakeup call, and strive to maintain a positive and happy atmosphere over a competitive one, choosing to maintain "fun" over efficient boss clears?

 

One of the main problems towards our server is how well people can play nice with each other, as some of the remaining veterans can easily agree on no matter the medium of the game. So in order to help achieve that goal should we begin to work with each other, we should make sure we know how each and every one of us treats the game and what our goals are in regards to "progression level raiding".

 

This is a great concern if not a bit premature. The community and collaboration has not started yet, but once it has, yes: each guild in the community should probably communicate their general "feel" or "ideals". An example would be that personally, for anything HM or above, I feel that parsec is a bit of a requirement so we can accurately gauge where everyone is. But yes, this will certainly be a part of the discussion moving forward.

Edited by bluecheesebandit
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This is a great concern if not a bit premature. The community and collaboration has not started yet, but once it has, yes: each guild in the community should probably communicate their general "feel" or "ideals". An example would be that personally, for anything HM or above, I feel that parsec is a bit of a requirement so we can accurately gauge where everyone is. But yes, this will certainly be a part of the discussion moving forward.

 

Oh, don't take this as a "people can't play nice together on BC' comment.

 

It's in regards as to how with our history on BC in multiple mediums of the game such as PvP, PvE, and RP, we've had drama stem mostly from people being unable to cooperate with each other. Which, based on my interactions with others and how two of my PvE guilds' method of operations have gone, I believe the problem stems from a lack of communication and understanding of each other more so than an actual refusal to support one another.

 

So, basically put, the only thing I wanted to really touch on is that we really make sure we "get to know each other" in this thread/at the summit. A lot of drama stems mostly because expectations and overall goals/personal preferences aren't clear until you see two or more of them clashing, so I'd like see our discussion really reveal each other's characters more than anything if we're going to achieve a level of unity on the progression raiding front.

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Oh, don't take this as a "people can't play nice together on BC' comment.

 

It's in regards as to how with our history on BC in multiple mediums of the game such as PvP, PvE, and RP, we've had drama stem mostly from people being unable to cooperate with each other. Which, based on my interactions with others and how two of my PvE guilds' method of operations have gone, I believe the problem stems from a lack of communication and understanding of each other more so than an actual refusal to support one another.

 

So, basically put, the only thing I wanted to really touch on is that we really make sure we "get to know each other" in this thread/at the summit. A lot of drama stems mostly because expectations and overall goals/personal preferences aren't clear until you see two or more of them clashing, so I'd like see our discussion really reveal each other's characters more than anything if we're going to achieve a level of unity on the progression raiding front.

 

Then a good ol' sit around the campfire and get to know ya procedure is in order, eh?

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First of all, I would like to thank Yovakka for putting this thread together. Secondly, I would like to address what Zuhara said in his reply. On one hand, people doing NM prog need to be aware that their preferred spec may not be as viable on certain fights. However, I also would like people to be made aware that through experience and a bit of research, any class can become viable. Sure, you will always have an easier time doing NM brontes with your HMD Magenta cheese combo of three snipers and one marauder, but realistically, any spec can be played in that fight. Yes, there are of course fights where certain specs have been proven to be somewhat objectively better than others, (EX: NM DG pre nerf, NM thrasher, NM Styrak) but realistically, any spec can be played to some degree of success in any fight. That being said, people should still be aware of how to play specs that would better benefit the raid as a whole.

 

That is all I have to say! And thanks again! Would really love to see imp side PvE pick up again on this server.

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Something else I forgot to mention that I feel strongly about is DPS complacency. Again, part of this can be attributed to the "having fun over clearing content mindset" but in any case, this thread is about current NM progression and future HM progression, which DPS need to be not complacent during. A person playing an "OP" class should still parse on the dummy just as much as someone who has to work harder to crank out ridiculous numbers.
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Sure, you will always have an easier time doing NM brontes with your HMD Magenta cheese combo of three snipers and one

 

You shut your whore mouth(lol you know i kid). 3 snipers and 1 marauder has been the best DPS composition for some time now. The only reason I have considered taking a shadow or vanguard in my group is because they received the FOTM buffs with 2.8. Everyone on my raid team has a backup gunslinger because they have the most utility in the game. Slingers/snipers are the lowest parsing rdps in the game but are still preferred for raid teams.

 

I think if you guys really want to get into nightmare raiding you just need to find 8 dedicated people. It took my raid group probably 6-9 months to be ready to tackle nightmare content as all of us were new to mmo raiding. We wiped on HM Zorn and Toth for a month(we were over geared as well) and later struggled with NiM Dread guards for 2 months. WE went in twice a week, and wiped endlessly. If you can find people with that same passion as yourself you will be fine.

 

If you want the fastrack to progression raiding, just get the 8 best players on the server and kick ***, a la Zorz and their record clear of NiM DP in 3 hours.

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I agree with Zuhara largely. The expectations of groups really needs to be made clear to those that would help them with their progression. I for one have stumbled into two groups that were in HM DF progression, a few months ago, and it was the worst runs in my entire SWTOR experience because of there attitude towards raiding. However, the ops lead was also a plain dick to everyone even within their own guild and it self collapsed probably 2 weeks after coming to the server. So at the same time it could also have been due to their Guild Leader, knowing what their expectations were before hand still could have helped. Edited by IKILLYOUFOOL
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While some of our guilds are unable to form NM teams, something to consider is cross guild nightmare teams. Even if a guild can do it independently; if we can at least get 24+ regularly clearing nightmare content that should get us so that more and more nightmare content is run. After a few weeks of that we could potentially go back and use our gained knowledge and skill to train our own guilds. Just a small idea that may not work; though, still wanted to get it out there.
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Hello all,

 

First of all I would like to thank Yovakka to take his time and post this thread. Lot of thought and idea into it so for that you have my respect. I was directed to this thread from Zuhara, I'm the CO GM of Tomb of Sorrows character name is Ny'lora. I believe this is a amazing idea and I will be in contact with my GM Cedaa and maybe we can all talk sometime. Until then I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread and talking with a few of the GM's you posted above and direct them here to post their thoughts and ideas. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

 

-Mori

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I love the thoughts of HM and NiM teams but I'd like to emphasize that right now the goal is to reach as many PVE guilds as possible on this topic. Having a good idea of what we will be discussing during the summit is good as well, but the direction we're headed right now is in outreach.

 

Our guild is willing to host it on TS: ts.ordoimperialis.com no password we have close to 256 slots available. We can also create a private channel for us to stay in while we are discussing it.

 

Awesome, thanks for the offer! I'll keep this in mind, right now I'm trying to decide the best format for the summit. I'm really not sure what would the best at this point, from a private thread, voice chat, private in-game channel, or something else entirely (I saw another server using google docs for this). How do we all feel about what format would be most beneficial for the purpose of creating a community and allowing all the best shot at communicating ideas?

 

Hello all,

 

First of all I would like to thank Yovakka to take his time and post this thread. Lot of thought and idea into it so for that you have my respect. I was directed to this thread from Zuhara, I'm the CO GM of Tomb of Sorrows character name is Ny'lora. I believe this is a amazing idea and I will be in contact with my GM Cedaa and maybe we can all talk sometime. Until then I'll be keeping a close eye on this thread and talking with a few of the GM's you posted above and direct them here to post their thoughts and ideas. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

 

-Mori

 

Thanks Mori! I sent Cedaa a PM here on the forums and tried to contact them in game as well but I don't believe I was successful (talked to so many GMs, trying to keep my thoughts straight). I'll see if I can forward that PM to you, or else you should bug Cedaa about it.

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3 snipers and 1 marauder has been the best DPS composition for some time now.

 

WELL DUH 3 snipers and marauders has always been the best composition. The point was to say that realistically, any fight can be cleared with any composition and you don't need to cheese mechanics like orbs to clear it.

Edit: I suck at quoting :(

Edited by Mevarek
poor quoting
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Thanks Mori! I sent Cedaa a PM here on the forums and tried to contact them in game as well but I don't believe I was successful (talked to so many GMs, trying to keep my thoughts straight). I'll see if I can forward that PM to you, or else you should bug Cedaa about it.

 

No problem! Her and I get messages all day every day so it's possible she looked it over like I do sometimes. I'll send her a text in a few minutes letting her know you've sent her a message. We will be in touch friend :D

 

Best regards,

 

-Mori

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This is Inferna the GM for <The Ordo Imperialis> with the offer of the team speak server we can also raise the limit to 500 if needed so please do not try to limit. We can create a channel and an access list and worry about the minutes for the meeting as well as set up a recording for the meeting it self. We are at the disposal of the community just let us know what is needed to help. I will be there I just need to know what time this will be so that myself and a representative will be able to attend.

 

- Inferna

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This is Inferna the GM for <The Ordo Imperialis> with the offer of the team speak server we can also raise the limit to 500 if needed so please do not try to limit. We can create a channel and an access list and worry about the minutes for the meeting as well as set up a recording for the meeting it self. We are at the disposal of the community just let us know what is needed to help. I will be there I just need to know what time this will be so that myself and a representative will be able to attend.

 

- Inferna

 

Wow, thanks for much for the offer! I can't imagine we'll be anywhere near that cap, and if we are I can't imagine that anything useful will actually get done.

 

As for times, I think this is a good time to broach this subject. What times are best for people? I'm thinking of a weekend night, possibly friday/saturday? I don't want to get in the way of raids, but that seems like its the time when the most people are on. Would a weekday night be better?

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Another thing in response to Zu's comment.

 

First off, YES. Incredibly well worded and accurate response, and I totally agree!

 

I think the biggest way we can curb the difference in guild "personalities" is to police it as GM's; make guildies actions the responsibilities of the GM's. Once all the guild leaders come to consensus, which will hopefully be the end result of this summit, we need to agree to police our guildmates to preserve the integrity of what we're trying to do.

 

I'd also make the suggestion that we need to limit this to 55's who are in guilds. "Free agents" are just a little to unpredictable. If they want to be a part, they can join a guild to do so. I imagine this is something we can discuss at the actual summit :)

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I'd also make the suggestion that we need to limit this to 55's who are in guilds. "Free agents" are just a little to unpredictable. If they want to be a part, they can join a guild to do so. I imagine this is something we can discuss at the actual summit :)

 

I would agree on this, if it was just the fact that free agents aren't in a guild because they're just rougue, but it's not the case... Most of freelancers I know are either in multiple guilds or guildless, or in a deserted guild because they don't have a better place, or haven't found it yet. If this is an opportunity to change that, we have to make sure they get what they need, as well as the rest of us. Not talking about some newbie pug or a 55 noob who's anti-social, I'm pointing to our top outsiders to keep in mind when LFM ("lost a dps on nightmare thrasher and nobody else is on, oh noes... LF that guy!")

 

Begeren Colony has the talents, we just need a way to gather them all together and synchronized. There's actually plenty of people out there who can pull the required DPS, or can heal through all sort of mechanics, or can tank like pros, but maybe they're on the wrong team, with the wrong composition, or just the wrong guild. I would make one of the goals for this, to do both: put those guys on good teams, and teach the others how to improve. If some people are just beyond stupidity and can't learn, nobody should feel forced to keep trying to teach.

 

I'm not trying to be elitist, but I would want to see the skill level in pugs raising, and a lot, in our server.

 

Anyway, the main goal here is to organize ****, and get **** done... dead... for good...

 

Happy hunting :)

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