Sents need PVP buff

[Valzanik]

As of right now Sents are very weak in Area. I agree with the nerf to smash because it was took away from the game i dont miss all the smash monkies at all. However sents have been constantly nerf'd way too many times, Patch (1.4,1.5,2.0,2.5,2.7).

 

Besides Anni's dmg neededing a buff to be viable in pvp Sent need to have the old Guarded MECHANIC back. I totally agree with the CD increase because it being up about every minute was OP. Leave the longer CD on it but make is so when the duration expires its not an instant death as it is now. This will drastically increase Sents viability in area's again without making it OP

[Sappharan]

As of right now Sents are very weak in Area. I agree with the nerf to smash because it was took away from the game i dont miss all the smash monkies at all. However sents have been constantly nerf'd way too many times, Patch (1.4,1.5,2.0,2.5,2.7).

 

Besides Anni's dmg neededing a buff to be viable in pvp Sent need to have the old Guarded MECHANIC back. I totally agree with the CD increase because it being up about every minute was OP. Leave the longer CD on it but make is so when the duration expires its not an instant death as it is now. This will drastically increase Sents viability in area's again without making it OP

 

The only thing I believe REALLY needs to be addressed is Gimped by the Force.

 

Ah, just saw that. I could not agree more. Give us the old mechanic. This new GbtF mechanic is PUKE!

[BEAUSR]

If this is "Gaurded" by the force, maybe the Sith are onto something after all?!

[Ramtar]

Problems I have are:

 

* Lack of initial Focus. Warrior/Knight are the only classes that start anything with 0 Focus and have to build it. The six other ACs, all, start fully charge with many having the ability to recharge it quickly (normally on a 2 min cd)

 

* Our abilities CDs should be shorten by 1/4 or 1/2 of the current timer and would make up for the lack of range compared to classes with 30-40 m range abilities.

 

* Still trying to figure out why this AC doesn't have a Force Pull (similar to Vanguard/Shadow) and/or Force Push (similar to Guardian/Sage/Shadow/Gunslinger/Commando)

 

* Inability to increase the range to 30m on: Crippling Throw, Zealous Leap, Blade Storm, Force Stasis

 

* Inability to increase Armor Rating to Heavy Armor

 

* Lack of a hard stun that other classes have.

 

* Sentinel Dual Wield Multiplier should be 64% not 30%. 30% should be for Dual Wield range classes.

 

* No camera/mouse cursor lock

 

* Expertise should be tied to Valor. 20.18 Expertise for each level of Valor.

 

* Overload Saber should be a class ability and don't in Watchman tree

 

* Player moving forward should be 4 times faster than a player moving backward

 

* Force and Zealous Leaps should allow players to leap to an area instead of a target

Edited June 10, 2014 by Ramtar

[Baalzamon]

The only thing I believe REALLY needs to be addressed is Gimped by the Force.

 

Ah, just saw that. I could not agree more. Give us the old mechanic. This new GbtF mechanic is PUKE!

 

Agreed fix Guarded By The Force and we would be happy the new GbtF sucks.........

[AarnSavo]

Give us one actual stun too, maybe? Stasis is great and all but many times I have found myself left dry without a stun of some type, with stasis left in cool down. Or give us some better defensive abilities that we aren't entirely made of glass. (not saying we should be full on tank)

 

Also something to help us keep our focus up more easily. After all unlike everyone else we have to seriously build up our "action points."

 

Lastly some kind of force push or pull. Something to blow people away from us or pull them to us. Or increase the range of our stasis and "saber throw."

[Vodrin]

Give us one actual stun too, maybe? Stasis is great and all but many times I have found myself left dry without a stun of some type, with stasis left in cool down. Or give us some better defensive abilities that we aren't entirely made of glass. (not saying we should be full on tank)

 

Also something to help us keep our focus up more easily. After all unlike everyone else we have to seriously build up our "action points."

 

Lastly some kind of force push or pull. Something to blow people away from us or pull them to us. Or increase the range of our stasis and "saber throw."

 

This class has no need of additional CC. It already has the best burst in the game in what is now the primary PvP spec. You can't give more CC without nerfing damage output. Although combat/carnage could use some help with focus generation.

[Ramtar]

This class has no need of additional CC. It already has the best burst in the game in what is now the primary PvP spec. You can't give more CC without nerfing damage output. Although combat/carnage could use some help with focus generation.

 

This class does need a hard stun just like the other classes to level the playing field, not matter how hard other class players complain or say: this class has no need of additional CC.

 

Devs need to rework: Zen, Transcendence and Inspiration as to make them activable without being tied to Centering and on 60 seconds CDs which would help all skill trees.

Edited June 16, 2014 by Ramtar

[Metallistic]

Am I the only one to think that the sentinel class is in a really good spot now? After the buffs, watchman offers formidable sustained damage with occasional nice burst and good survivability. Combat trades some survivability for insane burst and utility. Focus has decent single-target pressure combined with decent aoe pressure (not retardedly overpowered as it used to be, but still some pressure nonetheless). But let us be honest, anyone who can play watchman and/or combat at least decently will never have to resort to using derp smash as they offer far more potential for skilled players to excel. Except on some particular occasions.

 

This whole "lel sentinels/marauders are underpowered" movement started after the well deserved nerf of smash. This was the go to spec for a lot of the average and less than average players who liked the idea of putting up big numbers without putting in the effort. Incredibly easy to use and incredibly potent in terms of damage. This is never a good combination. Now matter how bad you were, you could still put up numbers with smash.

 

All classes should provide the tools for skilled players to excel. In my opinion, the developers should not balance the classes around average or below average players who instead of working on getting better, rely on "something getting changed" or "something getting buffed" for them to perform... What are you? A hungry dog waiting under the table for some scraps? That is how classes get overpowered. When the average players perform well with a particular spec/class (guardians/juggernauts and probably pts/vanguards right now), what do you think happens to the skilled players? Those same people who know how to push their specs/classes to the limit become way too powerful.

 

So to put things into perspective... In the current state of the game, a sentinel can REALLY excel as watchman, as combat and hell, even as smash if you like being limited by this noobish spec. The first two specs offer incredible potential for GOOD players to excel and that is what matters. It could be argued that some changes could be made to guarded by the force, but anything over that is completely unnecessary.

[AngusFTW]

Am I the only one to think that the sentinel class is in a really good spot now? After the buffs, watchman offers formidable sustained damage with occasional nice burst and good survivability. Combat trades some survivability for insane burst and utility. Focus has decent single-target pressure combined with decent aoe pressure (not retardedly overpowered as it used to be, but still some pressure nonetheless). But let us be honest, anyone who can play watchman and/or combat at least decently will never have to resort to using derp smash as they offer far more potential for skilled players to excel. Except on some particular occasions.

 

This whole "lel sentinels/marauders are underpowered" movement started after the well deserved nerf of smash. This was the go to spec for a lot of the average and less than average players who liked the idea of putting up big numbers without putting in the effort. Incredibly easy to use and incredibly potent in terms of damage. This is never a good combination. Now matter how bad you were, you could still put up numbers with smash.

 

All classes should provide the tools for skilled players to excel. In my opinion, the developers should not balance the classes around average or below average players who instead of working on getting better, rely on "something getting changed" or "something getting buffed" for them to perform... What are you? A hungry dog waiting under the table for some scraps? That is how classes get overpowered. When the average players perform well with a particular spec/class (guardians/juggernauts and probably pts/vanguards right now), what do you think happens to the skilled players? Those same people who know how to push their specs/classes to the limit become way too powerful.

 

So to put things into perspective... In the current state of the game, a sentinel can REALLY excel as watchman, as combat and hell, even as smash if you like being limited by this noobish spec. The first two specs offer incredible potential for GOOD players to excel and that is what matters. It could be argued that some changes could be made to guarded by the force, but anything over that is completely unnecessary.

I agree with pretty much all of this.

[MasterFeign]

I'm in agreement as well in that once smash was nerfed, people that ventured to other trees they were unfamiliar how to play, complained, simply because they were not as good with it, compared with smash spec.

 

With that being said though, perhaps one of the quality of life changes I may like to see for sents is when using force camo, that it removes roots, mezzes and slows (similar to "fleetfooted" in the combat tree).

 

I think part of the reason that sents are also feeling gimped (if at all), is because there are a larger number of other classes making use of roots and mezzes and what not (vigilance guardians and JC balance). Then again, I didn't want a root on the guardian's master strike ("debilitation") and instead only 1 second longer on "unremitting"... but alas...

 

I mean, if I can join a late WZ, have 1400 expertise, and still do top damage, sentinels must be in a decent place.

 

The amount of resolveless slows/mezzes/roots though in this game is an overall problem however.

 

Plus there's the fact that Sents have benefited from the "jump into the fight first" mentality that due to class balance in other classes, isn't an easy thing to do with a sent at all times. So part of it, I believe is a playstyle issue as well.

Edited June 16, 2014 by MasterFeign

[Ramtar]

I'm in agreement as well in that once smash was nerfed, people that ventured to other trees they were unfamiliar how to play, complained, simply because they were not as good with it, compared with smash spec.

 

With that being said though, perhaps one of the quality of life changes I may like to see for sents is when using force camo, that it removes roots, mezzes and slows (similar to "fleetfooted" in the combat tree).

 

I think part of the reason that sents are also feeling gimped (if at all), is because there are a larger number of other classes making use of roots and mezzes and what not (vigilance guardians and JC balance). Then again, I didn't want a root on the guardian's master strike ("debilitation") and instead only 1 second longer on "unremitting"... but alas...

 

I mean, if I can join a late WZ, have 1400 expertise, and still do top damage, sentinels must be in a decent place.

 

The amount of resolveless slows/mezzes/roots though in this game is an overall problem however.

 

Plus there's the fact that Sents have benefited from the "jump into the fight first" mentality that due to class balance in other classes, isn't an easy thing to do with a sent at all times. So part of it, I believe is a playstyle issue as well.

 

If you doing top damage with 1400 Expertise than the other players either: have less Expertise or they suck. Because a 2018 Expertise player will rape you with your 1400 Expertise.

 

What class balance in the other classes? Force Leap (15 sec CD) and Twin Saber Throw (18 sec CD) are Sentinel's only 30m attack and Force Camouflage (45 sec CD) is suppose to be a closer? How many 10-30m attacks a Sorcerer has that are on 6-9 sec CDs? None of our abilities that do massive damage have a CD lower that 12 seconds. Don't even get me started on Defensive CDs compared to the other classes.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

If you doing top damage with 1400 Expertise than the other players either: have less Expertise or they suck. Because a 2018 Expertise player will rape you with your 1400 Expertise.

 

What class balance in the other classes? Force Leap (15 sec CD) and Twin Saber Throw (18 sec CD) are Sentinel's only 30m attack and Force Camouflage (45 sec CD) is suppose to be a closer? How many 10-30m attacks a Sorcerer has that are on 6-9 sec CDs? None of our abilities that do massive damage have a CD lower that 12 seconds. Don't even get me started on Defensive CDs compared to the other classes.

 

Blade storm has a 9 second cooldown in Combat spec. Combat is also the most unkitable spec in this game if played right. And sorcs have nothing that hits anywhere near as hard as blade storm with OA up. Sents could use a few tweaks, but lets not pretend they are massively underpowered.

[MasterFeign]

If you doing top damage with 1400 Expertise than the other players either: have less Expertise or they suck. Because a 2018 Expertise player will rape you with your 1400 Expertise.

 

What class balance in the other classes? Force Leap (15 sec CD) and Twin Saber Throw (18 sec CD) are Sentinel's only 30m attack and Force Camouflage (45 sec CD) is suppose to be a closer? How many 10-30m attacks a Sorcerer has that are on 6-9 sec CDs? None of our abilities that do massive damage have a CD lower that 12 seconds. Don't even get me started on Defensive CDs compared to the other classes.

 

See, I'd certainly agree that the other team would certainly suck, but I also did start the game late meaning they should have at least more damage than me. I think they just weren't focusing properly. We still lost the game though.

 

There's also a reset on gore/precision slash. Yes it's a bit distressing to have wasted a PS when you become rooted (or whatever else), but that is part of knowing how to play the class in that, you save the hard hitting stuff for (often), after you get white barred. Often times, I'll be down to 60%, my enemy still at 100% health, before I can start my rotation, and when successful, I get them down really fast. I don't expect to do well all the time, especially without a healer, but I think the issue here, is not with sents/maras but a general issue. IE. roots/slows/mezzes not effecting resolve. I mean I'd love to have "Egress" for my shadow...

 

On that note though in 4-6 seconds I can do about 30k damage if everything goes well, and this isn't a one time thing either.

[Ramtar]

Blade storm has a 9 second cooldown in Combat spec. Combat is also the most unkitable spec in this game if played right. And sorcs have nothing that hits anywhere near as hard as blade storm with OA up. Sents could use a few tweaks, but lets not pretend they are massively underpowered.

 

How many attacks do a Sorcerer/Sage that are 6-9 seconds and a 30m range? Blade Storm CD should be 9 second unbuffed. All our attacks 4-10m shouldn't be more than 9 seconds due to range limitation compared to range classes.

 

I'm for tweaks to start getting this class on a level field with the other classes. No other equally geared melee class should beat a Sentinel/Marauder 1v1 except another Sentinel/Marauder: PERIOD. With the upgrade to Watchman, it's the top tree in Sentinel. Overcharge Saber has a shorter CD than Precision Slash and Watchman having a self heal in it's tree.

 

If a Sentinel can't wear heavy armor or enhance our armor rating than Guardian/Vanguard/Commando should only get to wear medium armor.

 

If one of the main characters in the Star Wars movies dual wielded lightsabers than we wouldn't be having any conversations on how under powered Sentinels are in this MMO.

 

Little or massively under powered, Sentinels are still under powered.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Ramtar

[AngusFTW]

No we aren't.

lol

Edited June 25, 2014 by AngusFTW

[Vodrin]

 

I'm for tweaks to start getting this class on a level field with the other classes. No other equally geared melee class should beat a Sentinel/Marauder 1v1 except another Sentinel/Marauder: PERIOD. With the upgrade to Watchman, it's the top tree in Sentinel. Overcharge Saber has a shorter CD than Precision Slash and Watchman having a self heal in it's tree.

[/b]

 

So your argument is that the game has it wrong until sent/mara are overpowered? Not a very credible or effective argument. Ideally, every class should have an equal chance of success in 1v1 or group with player skill and a little RNG luck deciding the outcome.

 

And for your information, combat is still the most effective sentinel tree. Watchman has just closed the gap and is much easier to play reasonably well.

[Ramtar]

So your argument is that the game has it wrong until sent/mara are overpowered? Not a very credible or effective argument. Ideally, every class should have an equal chance of success in 1v1 or group with player skill and a little RNG luck deciding the outcome.

 

And for your information, combat is still the most effective sentinel tree. Watchman has just closed the gap and is much easier to play reasonably well.

 

PvP season 2 Solo ending ranking are out: only 1 Sentinel/Marauder (#36) is in the top 50 and 8 Sentinel/Marauder in the top 100.

 

Yet, you still say: Sentinels don't need a pvp buff?

Edited August 11, 2014 by Ramtar

[sithhunter_]

All of the suggested changes to sentinels would make them completely overpowered, if you take the time to get the right mods combat is insane. your initial burst rotation should be capable of taking someone under 50% with 3-4 attacks. So having that much damage in a short span makes it to there they must make you have lower survive-ability. I am happy with where sentinels are at. I just think that people assume because there are so many of us that its easy to play. And you just to a group and are not able to kill them so we are underpowered. You should be a "melee-sniper" in the sence that you can destroy a healer in PVP. You just have to be smart with your CC break, dont use it on neural surge only to get cryo grenaded right after. Dont use it on an exploding bubble just to get hard stunned. And also use your DC's smarter... i cant tell you how many times i see sents/ marauders use all of their CD's at the same time.

 

Sentinels are fine, the RNG removal in 2.10 will be a big buff for combat sents i think in pvp. People just need to take the time to learn their class and play it properly.

[Ramtar]

All of the suggested changes to sentinels would make them completely overpowered, if you take the time to get the right mods combat is insane. your initial burst rotation should be capable of taking someone under 50% with 3-4 attacks. So having that much damage in a short span makes it to there they must make you have lower survive-ability. I am happy with where sentinels are at. I just think that people assume because there are so many of us that its easy to play. And you just to a group and are not able to kill them so we are underpowered. You should be a "melee-sniper" in the sence that you can destroy a healer in PVP. You just have to be smart with your CC break, dont use it on neural surge only to get cryo grenaded right after. Dont use it on an exploding bubble just to get hard stunned. And also use your DC's smarter... i cant tell you how many times i see sents/ marauders use all of their CD's at the same time.

 

Sentinels are fine, the RNG removal in 2.10 will be a big buff for combat sents i think in pvp. People just need to take the time to learn their class and play it properly.

 

Sentinel/Marauder are fine for PvE and needs some adjustments for PvP. If a Sentinel/Marauder has to use all the CDs at the same time then there is a problem with class. PvP in WZs are quick and fast not like a Flash Point/Operation.

 

Stun breaker is on a 120 seconds CD so big deal if it's used for the exploding bubble or the stun happening in 30 seconds after the bubble. It's still on a 120 second CD.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Ramtar

[sithhunter_]

I dont think you understand what im saying, if your using all of your CDs at the same time your doing it wrong. There is no need to pacify someone and use rebuke and saberward all at the same time. And also, ya its a 2 min CD on cc break, but so is everyone elses, if you spec properly you have a bunch of slows and roots that keep people in range of you, and you gap closer is on a pretty small cooldown, i dont understand what the problem is i guess...

 

either way, combat dmg buff is going to help so be patient, but also it may just be a l2p issue for a lot of people.

[Ramtar]

I dont think you understand what im saying, if your using all of your CDs at the same time your doing it wrong. There is no need to pacify someone and use rebuke and saberward all at the same time. And also, ya its a 2 min CD on cc break, but so is everyone elses, if you spec properly you have a bunch of slows and roots that keep people in range of you, and you gap closer is on a pretty small cooldown, i dont understand what the problem is i guess...

 

either way, combat dmg buff is going to help so be patient, but also it may just be a l2p issue for a lot of people.

 

I don't think you have played a level 55 Sentinel in a WZ.

 

Devs can do any possible things to increase the damage output to Sentinel class without major changes to specific trees:

 

* decrease CDs on defensive abilities by 1/4 - 1/2. Increase survivability increases damage output.

* increase the range by 15m on: Force Stasis, Zealous Leap, Crippling Throw, Dispatch, Blade Storm. Longer range more targets to damage.

* adding an armor debuff to Zealous Strike. Less target armor rating increases damage output on target.

* reworking Centering to allow being attacked. Faster building on Centering will allow Transcendence and Zen to be used more often. Increased survivability increases damage output.

* adding 2% Melee Parry/Range Deflect per point in Dual Wield Mastery. Innate 6% increase to Melee Parry/Range Deflect increases defense chances increases survivability increases damage output.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Ramtar

[Cjirucha]

I don't think you have played a level 55 Sentinel in a WZ.

 

Devs can do any possible things to increase the damage output to Sentinel class without major changes to specific trees:

 

* decrease CDs on defensive abilities by 1/4 - 1/2. Increase survivability increases damage output.

* increase the range by 15m on: Force Stasis, Zealous Leap, Crippling Throw, Dispatch, Blade Storm. Longer range more targets to damage.

* adding an armor debuff to Zealous Strike. Less target armor rating increases damage output on target.

* reworking Centering to allow being attacked. Faster building on Centering will allow Transcendence and Zen to be used more often. Increased survivability increases damage output.

* adding 2% Melee Parry/Range Deflect per point in Dual Wield Mastery. Innate 6% increase to Melee Parry/Range Deflect increases defense chances increases survivability increases damage output.

 

Why do you have it in your head that sents need a damage buff? They in no way need a damage buff. Damage potential is fantastic and will be even more so in 2.10. Honestly, I think watchman could use a little love for pvp, force camo should remove roots/slows as a baseline, and GbtF needs a rework. That is really all the class needs. Just a few QoL changes.

[Ramtar]

Why do you have it in your head that sents need a damage buff? They in no way need a damage buff. Damage potential is fantastic and will be even more so in 2.10. Honestly, I think watchman could use a little love for pvp, force camo should remove roots/slows as a baseline, and GbtF needs a rework. That is really all the class needs. Just a few QoL changes.

 

I'm for increasing Sentinel survivability which will lead to increase damage.

 

Sorry, but Watchman is fine for PvP. Big difference in full Brutalizer and full Obroan.

 

Yes, GbtF needs reworking, Combat/Focus need self heals in their trees and stun survivability/knock back immunity are still non existence. Force Sweep needs to revert back to pre 2.7 because Focus Sentinels are being left behind damage wise with the changes to Watchman/Combat.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Ramtar

[Cjirucha]

I'm for increasing Sentinel survivability which will lead to increase damage.

 

Sorry, but Watchman is fine for PvP. Big difference in full Brutalizer and full Obroan.

 

Yes, GbtF needs reworking, Combat/Focus need self heals in their trees and stun survivability/knock back immunity are still non existence. Force Sweep needs to revert back to pre 2.7 because Focus Sentinels are being left behind damage wise with the changes to Watchman/Combat.

 

Sure damage wise watchman is fine. No qualms there. I just think it is extremely susceptible to roots and slows and has no reliable way to combat that (pun intended). The rest, I pretty much agree with. I'm thinking we will see a 're work of focus in 3.0 as right now it really has no place in pvp.