The REAL Most Powerful Index Thread

[Aurbere]

PS: Since we are now officially filing complains about the index here (thanks Selenial ), I'm going to join in. I still feel that Maul is a better duelist than Obi-Wan.

 

Fully disagree. Sorry.

[Darkelefantos]

Fully disagree. Sorry.

 

I made Aurbere apologise for having an opinion, IMO that's worth something

 

I also didn't know this was up to your opinion as opposed to the gathering of facts. But if you disagree and that means it's out of the question that that's possible, well, I'll see myself out.

[Aurbere]

I made Aurbere apologise for having an opinion, IMO that's worth something

 

I also didn't know this was up to your opinion as opposed to the gathering of facts. But if you disagree and that means it's out of the question that that's possible, well, I'll see myself out.

 

You voiced an opinion, I voiced mine. No need to get all huffy about it.

 

Now that we've done this, make your argument.

[Selenial]

Traya has appeared in ONE game. And while I agree she is quite powerful, a decent amount of what we give her credit for/ how powerful they are is pure speculation. And I mean PURE.

 

I don't want to get into a Traya debate now, but that's basically the argument you are presenting. Because Fay has only battled Ventress, that means little. But Traya has only battled, what, 6 people? And some of that is deleted game bits and things that are only dark side, while Meetra is a light sided character.

No offence, but you missed the point entirely.

Like, what you post here is an argument as to why I'm right.

 

Traya has shown far greater knowledge over palpatine in foresight.

She has shown more skill than every sith bar Nihilus in Force Drain.

Her Dark healing powers are the most powerful we have ever seen a Sith achieve.

 

Yet do we say "Oh, she's shown she's better than Palpatine in all these fields, but because she's in one game, we dont see the rest of her moves. it's logical therefore to say she beats Palpatine in everything else"

 

No.

 

No we do not.

 

Because the force doesn't work that way.

 

Fay turned armies around, stopped wars, without a lightsaber. Congratulations, ever heard of Diplomacy? You know, Fay, a Jedi who abhores violence, would generally try and stop wars without a fight.

 

The little quote about her being the strongest Jedi is firstly, a Character Opinion, which was stated in (Either page) 1, 2, or 3 (I forget) of the REAL Most powerful Jedi thread to be non-canon in terms of these threads, and therefore not counted.

 

 

So this leaves us with why the hell we actually put Fay here. These are the events that I remember from the Comic.

 

Survived an Explosion (As did most Jedi)

Healed herself through 2 Lightsabers to the chest (Traya's matched those feats)

Made Ventress Pass out.

 

Now, making Ventress pass out is a feat, I'll give her that, but so what? Again, she abhors violence, she never carried a blade. She needed means of defending herself, and had 500 years to perfect the art of Knocking someone out.

She wouldn't be the first Jedi.

 

 

If someone can give me any proper abilities that show above the majority of other Jedi in this list then Please, for the love of all that is Holy, show me. But until then, I see nothing.

[Wolfninjajedi]

No offence, but you missed the point entirely.

Like, what you post here is an argument as to why I'm right.

 

Traya has shown far greater knowledge over palpatine in foresight.

She has shown more skill than every sith bar Nihilus in Force Drain.

.

 

Eh actually Sel, Palps has superior Force Drain to Traya too and also superior to Nihilus.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

I feel I've defended Fay adequately

 

Then You'll have more than enough evidence to do it again.

 

I've re read the comic and gone through the entire REAL most powerful thread, I've seen nothing to change my mind.

[Selenial]

Eh actually Sel, Palps has superior Force Drain to Traya too and also superior to Nihilus.

 

Fair point.

 

I always forget Byss. Change the comparison to Caedus if you want then, the argument still stands

Edited June 23, 2014 by Selenial

[Darkelefantos]

You voiced an opinion, I voiced mine. No need to get all huffy about it.

 

Now that we've done this, make your argument.

 

I'll be honest, I had to look up the word huffy because English isn't my first language, and I was kinda surprised you took my comment as "huffy" instead of "not serious".

 

Besides, I'm no good at formulating intricate postings about objective power anyway, especially since Maul is one of my favorite characters in the Star Wars saga.

 

That aside, I consider their difference to be miniscule. IMO all their duels were pretty much stalemates (IIRC Maul clearly won one of them but aside from that they were never resolved). The only true difference where I see Maul vastly ahead is versatility, as he isn't limited to a single form or even weapon as much.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Darkelefantos

[Aurbere]

I'll be honest, I had to look up the word huffy because English isn't my first language, and I was kinda surprised you took my comment as "huffy" instead of "not serious".

 

Besides, I'm no good at formulating intricate postings about objective power anyway, especially since Maul is one of my favorite characters in the Star Wars saga.

 

That aside, I consider their difference to be miniscule. IMO all their duels were pretty much stalemates (IIRC Maul clearly won one of them but aside from that they were never resolved). The only true difference where I see Maul vastly ahead is versatility, as he isn't limited to a single form or even weapon as much.

 

Meh, it's text, not actual dialog.

 

Anyway, the gap between Maul and Obi-Wan is small, but you would be wrong in assuming that Kenobi is limited to one Form and one weapon. Kenobi was a master of Soresu (remarked as THE master of Soresu by Mace Windu) and Ataru, and possessed a high degree of skill in Shien, Niman, and Shii-Cho. He is also a clear expert in Jar'Kai, wielding two blades on several occasions, even outdueling Ventress on one such occasion.

 

So Kenobi is not limited to one Form or one weapon.

[Darkelefantos]

Meh, it's text, not actual dialog.

 

Anyway, the gap between Maul and Obi-Wan is small, but you would be wrong in assuming that Kenobi is limited to one Form and one weapon. Kenobi was a master of Soresu (remarked as THE master of Soresu by Mace Windu) and Ataru, and possessed a high degree of skill in Shien, Niman, and Shii-Cho. He is also a clear expert in Jar'Kai, wielding two blades on several occasions, even outdueling Ventress on one such occasion.

 

So Kenobi is not limited to one Form or one weapon.

 

Hence the addition of the words "as much". Of course Kenobi isn't completely limited, but Maul is an expert at many different aspects aswell, as I imagine you are well aware. The difference is that Maul, using his duel against Sidious as his prime, is always prepared to use almost every technique he knows in that he carries two Lightsabers while Obi-Wan doesn't generally have more than his own LS with him. Even in TPM, he was able to seamlessly switch between using his Saberstaff and then using only one part of it when Obi-Wan rendered the rest of it non-functional. This makes Maul extremely dangerous as he can surprise his enemies by switching techniques without becoming a weaker opponent (IMO his Jar'Kai is also better than his single LS combat).

[Aurbere]

Hence the addition of the words "as much". Of course Kenobi isn't completely limited, but Maul is an expert at many different aspects aswell, as I imagine you are well aware. The difference is that Maul, using his duel against Sidious as his prime, is always prepared to use almost every technique he knows in that he carries two Lightsabers while Obi-Wan doesn't generally have more than his own LS with him. Even in TPM, he was able to seamlessly switch between using his Saberstaff and then using only one part of it when Obi-Wan rendered the rest of it non-functional. This makes Maul extremely dangerous as he can surprise his enemies by switching techniques without becoming a weaker opponent (IMO his Jar'Kai is also better than his single LS combat).

 

Well that's the thing. Kenobi was also able to transition between single blade and dual blade combat, even wielding an electrostaff in his offhand at one point.

[OddballEasyEight]

Yep, fanfiction. In order for content to be canon, it had to have been in the movies or the Clone Wars series.

 

So... where exactly is Darth Malgus, Darth Traya, Darth Krayt, Satele Shan, Kyp Durron, Nomi Sunrider, Meetra Surik, Revan, Jaina Solo, Exar Kun, Fay, Galen Marek and Darth Caedus in the movies or clone wars series hmm??

 

You can't just arbitrarily pick and choose amongst the EU sources.

Either none of it is canon, or all of it is canon.

[LadyKulvax]

Whilst Maul is an excellent duellist I simply feel that his excellence is so centralised into Juyo/Jar'Kai that he lacks heavily by comparison in his defensive qualities, I know I know Battle of Naboo but this was a past his prime whom couldn't even use Ataru properly Jinn and a rash Kenobi.

 

But anyone who read Shadow Hunter can tell you, he is consistently caught offguard when an unexpected attack comes into play, hence nearly being killed by a Padawan again, I feel despite the fact he seems to dominate Kenobi*in TCW this doesn't really matter as so did Vader, who wins in the end? the negotiator and that is exactly how Kenobi works, he doesn't dominate because he doesn't want to and yet he still controls the duel. Kenobi > Maul.

 

As far as Fay is concerned, I feel Kenobi's opinion is certainly reliable and that just because it is character opinion that doesn't make it meaningless, is Kenobi objective? yes. is he known to exaggerate? no. Is he reliable enough with enough experience to give an informed opinion? definitely.

Edited June 24, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Darkelefantos]

Whilst Maul is an excellent duellist I simply feel that his excellence is so centralised into Juyo/Jar'Kai that he lacks heavily by comparison in his defensive qualities, I know I know Battle of Naboo but this was a past his prime whom couldn't even use Ataru properly Jinn and a rash Kenobi.

 

But anyone who read Shadow Hunter can tell you, he is consistently caught offguard when an unexpected attack comes into play, hence nearly being killed by a Padawan again, I feel despite the fact he seems to dominate Kenobi*in TCW this doesn't really matter as so did Vader, who wins in the end? the negotiator and that is exactly how Kenobi works, he doesn't dominate because he doesn't want to and yet he still controls the duel. Kenobi > Maul.

 

His defensive capabilities are lacking because he focuses heavily on his offense, that's true. But even still it's enough to duel on par with Sidious for an amount of time matched by not even a hand full of people in the Saga.

 

And yes, he gets caught of guard quite a bit (less so in TCW). On the other hand, he shows himself quite capable of planning things out. He lured Jinn to a place where he'd have to face him alone and they fought in a place unfit for Ataru. Besides, this is less dueling skill and more of a mental aspect. Kenobi's negotatior mentality is also somewhat offset by the fact that Maul has caused 2 of Kenobi's greatest losses, his master and his perhaps greatest love, and Maul has shown he knows how to take advantage of this and managed to unbalance Obi-Wan in a way few could (specifically their fight on the transport or whatever that was in TCW).

 

On a side note, I find it interesting that you pick Obi's duel against Vader to point out his mindset. Because that duel on Mustafar was probably the least defensive we see Kenobi in the entire Saga, maybe except after his master is killed by Maul.

[Beniboybling]

I'd appreciate it if we put a hold on this discussion, until we revisit the lightsaber list.

 

The current revisited thread is also the place for the Fay discussion.

[Selenial]

I'd appreciate it if we put a hold on this discussion, until we revisit the lightsaber list.

 

The current revisited thread is also the place for the Fay discussion.

 

Are you wanting me to repost in that thread, or are you compiling an argument?

[Aurbere]

Are you wanting me to repost in that thread, or are you compiling an argument?

 

I'm gonna say yes...