The REAL Most Powerful Index Thread

[Beniboybling]

There have been a lot of one-off threads in the past discussion whose the most powerful Jedi, Sith etc. but ultimately its just been a place to state your opinions, and no real conclusions were reached. With that in mind I decided to set up a series of threads were formal debate could be held, with the purpose of reaching consensus on who the REAL most powerful Force users were. And so after tireless debate with the community here, we've formulated lists of who we all agree to be the ten most powerful and skilled in a designated field.

 

Well roughly, there were always be discrepancies, disagreements and changes in opinion. But at the very least it acts as a rough guide and a general reflection on the thoughts of the fans, and is constantly being revised and updated.

 

Here I shall be compiling all the lists we have completed. Hopefully this will be a go-to source and sort of 'forum-canon' for any future discussions and debates on this matter, that the majority of people agree on.

 

Any opinions/insights on the lists are welcome. Though I would encourage that you discuss them on their respective threads unless a more general topic. Furthermore official revisions to the list take place here for Force Users and here for Lightsaber Duelists. This list excludes deities, ancient Sith Lords due to lack of information, and Darth Nihilus - a natural phenomena and non-corporeal entity whose powers fluctuate with the environment.

 

The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

 

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Darth Sidious

3. Yoda

4. Darth Caedus

5. Sith Emperor

6. Darth Plagueis

7. Galen Marek

8. Exar Kun

9. Master Fay

10. Darth Vader

 

The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

 

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Yoda

3. Master Fay

4. Jaina Solo

5. Mace Windu

6. Revan

7. Meetra Surik

8. Nomi Sunrider

9. Kyp Durron

10. Satele Shan

 

The REAL Most Powerful Sith

 

1. Darth Sidious

2. Darth Caedus

3. Sith Emperor

4. Darth Plagueis

5. Exar Kun

6. Darth Vader

7. Darth Krayt

8. Darth Traya

9. Darth Malgus

10. Darth Bane

 

==================================================

 

Below is a list of formal comparisons that have been over the course of the series. For information concerning the categories I'd refer you to this Wookieepedia page.

 

Darth Plagueis, Exar Kun & Mace Windu

 

Darth Caedus & The Sith Emperor

 

Exar Kun & Darth Vader

 

Darth Malgus & Darth Traya

 

Meetra Surik & Satele Shan

 

Saba Sebatyne & Revan

 

Saba Sebatyne & Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Revan & Satele Shan

 

==================================================

 

The REAL Most Powerful Lightsaber Duelists

 

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Yoda

3. Mace Windu

4. Darth Caedus

5. Darth Sidious

6. Jaina Solo

7. Exar Kun

8. Darth Vader

9. Count Dooku

10. Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

The REAL Most Powerful Jedi Lightsaber Duelists

 

1. Luke Skywalker

2. Yoda

3. Mace Windu

4. Jaina Solo

5. Obi-Wan Kenobi

6. Raskta Lsu

7. Vodo-Siosk Baas

8. Kol Skywalker

9. Corran Horn

10. Shaak Ti

 

The REAL Most Powerful Sith Lightsaber Duelists

 

1. Darth Caedus

2. Darth Sidious

3. Exar Kun

4. Darth Vader

5. Count Dooku

6. Darth Maul

7. Blademaster Kas'im

8. Darth Krayt

9. Ulic Qel-Droma

10. Darth Bane

 

==================================================

 

Also take a look at a collaborative essay put together by myself and our resident historian, Aurbere, on the subject of why Sidious as opposed to the Sith Emperor is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Beniboybling

[redtornado]

Hiya.

Darth Bane used the Force to move a MOON into the atmosphere of the planet it was orbiting. And mentioned that it had been done before...

He had a purple lightsaber and glowy eyes.

Also, created the Rule of Two.

Not on the list of the most powerful Force users?!?

Happy Gaming,

Red

[Beniboybling]

Hiya.

Darth Bane used the Force to move a MOON into the atmosphere of the planet it was orbiting. And mentioned that it had been done before...

He had a purple lightsaber and glowy eyes.

Also, created the Rule of Two.

Not on the list of the most powerful Force users?!?

Happy Gaming,

Red

Fan Fiction I'm afraid is not considered evidence.

[redtornado]

Hiya.

It was done in a Dark Horse comic by actual writers and artists. It was just after the rest of the Sith killed: themselves, a bunch of Jedi(including General Hoth), and some really cute green, floating, intelligent, warm fuzzies, and half-a-planets worth of wanna-be Jedi/Sithsez, using a "thought-bomb" Sithy attack. ... Seriously*. *nods affirmatively.

 

Truthfully,

Red

 

Found it. --- Dark Horse Comics: Jedi Vs. Sith mini-series 1-6.

Edited June 4, 2014 by redtornado
Found it. :D

[predasith]

Greetings! I really enjoyed reading through these topics, but I have a question! Will these lists be re-examined according to the new Disney canon rules at any point? Just wondering, not a pressing matter, by any means. Cheers!

[Aurbere]

Greetings! I really enjoyed reading through these topics, but I have a question! Will these lists be re-examined according to the new Disney canon rules at any point? Just wondering, not a pressing matter, by any means. Cheers!

 

Probably when the new movies come out.

[NightEngine]

Hiya.

It was done in a Dark Horse comic by actual writers and artists. It was just after the rest of the Sith killed: themselves, a bunch of Jedi(including General Hoth), and some really cute green, floating, intelligent, warm fuzzies, and half-a-planets worth of wanna-be Jedi/Sithsez, using a "thought-bomb" Sithy attack. ... Seriously*. *nods affirmatively.

 

Truthfully,

Red

 

Found it. --- Dark Horse Comics: Jedi Vs. Sith mini-series 1-6.

 

Yep, fanfiction. In order for content to be canon, it had to have been in the movies or the Clone Wars series.

[Petvin]

Yep, fanfiction. In order for content to be canon, it had to have been in the movies or the Clone Wars series.

 

That's a pity considering that the Movies are much worser than most of the comics

 

The movies are so cringeworthy unintresting in terms of characters and plot, compare movie Luke to Cade or Jaina.

 

Calling them fanfiction is an insult. You call things like Mistborn fanfiction too? Even though its better then Star Wars ever will be?

Edited June 23, 2014 by Petvin

[Selenial]

I still think It's ridiculous that you put Fay at 3.

 

She appeared in ONE Comic, should be excluded for this very reason, she really doesn't have enough showings. We can't just say "Oh, but she did this to Ventress that no one else did" therefore using that to deduce that she's one of the best.

 

Traya's foresight was the strongest We've ever seen, beating out even Palpatine. Yet for some reason, the rest of us don't go around saying she's uber-more powerful than Papa palps, oh I wonder why

[Aurbere]

I still think It's ridiculous that you put Fay at 3.

 

She appeared in ONE Comic, should be excluded for this very reason, she really doesn't have enough showings. We can't just say "Oh, but she did this to Ventress that no one else did" therefore using that to deduce that she's one of the best.

 

Traya's foresight was the strongest We've ever seen, beating out even Palpatine. Yet for some reason, the rest of us don't go around saying she's uber-more powerful than Papa palps, oh I wonder why

 

Though I'm not as upset about it, I agree.

[Silenceo]

Merely a suggestion, but could a 3rd catagory be added/debated over? Primarily the "Dark Jedi" category, since they are often neither jedi nor sith. If this has gone over before and been dismissed already, I apologize, never had the time to go through the entire threads in this series, so many....soooo many...

 

Granted Dark Jedi tend to be weaker than either a Jedi or a Sith, but there are also some nice characters under that category that I think are worth mention such as the Imperial Inquisitors since they were mostly dark jedi. Though, this train of thought could be lengthened to continue the other none-sith or jedi ways of the force spread across the galaxy such as the Dathomiri night sisters.

 

Merely a suggestion, if it is a no go sorry for wasting thread space.

[Aurbere]

Merely a suggestion, but could a 3rd catagory be added/debated over? Primarily the "Dark Jedi" category, since they are often neither jedi nor sith. If this has gone over before and been dismissed already, I apologize, never had the time to go through the entire threads in this series, so many....soooo many...

 

Granted Dark Jedi tend to be weaker than either a Jedi or a Sith, but there are also some nice characters under that category that I think are worth mention such as the Imperial Inquisitors since they were mostly dark jedi. Though, this train of thought could be lengthened to continue the other none-sith or jedi ways of the force spread across the galaxy such as the Dathomiri night sisters.

 

Merely a suggestion, if it is a no go sorry for wasting thread space.

 

I honestly think we could lump Dark Jedi up with members of various Force cults such as the Nightsisters and the Baran Do, simply because there aren't a ton of remarkable Dark Jedi.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I honestly think we could lump Dark Jedi up with members of various Force cults such as the Nightsisters and the Baran Do, simply because there aren't a ton of remarkable Dark Jedi.

 

The only really remarkable dark jedi that comes to my mind is Ventress and that's only cause she's appeared moreso than any other. I mean...I guess you could also count Sora in there. But other than that, not too many great dark jedi come to mind.

[Aurbere]

The only really remarkable dark jedi that comes to my mind is Ventress and that's only cause she's appeared moreso than any other. I mean...I guess you could also count Sora in there. But other than that, not too many great dark jedi come to mind.

 

True, true. Hence why I suggested lumping in other Force cults with them.

[Silenceo]

The only really remarkable dark jedi that comes to my mind is Ventress and that's only cause she's appeared moreso than any other. I mean...I guess you could also count Sora in there. But other than that, not too many great dark jedi come to mind.

 

I actually tend to consider Ventress as a Sith due to some of the story arcs seen in TCW, where Sideous considered her a potential apprentice of Dooku's and forced him to kill her. Or at least try to. Though she was originally a jedi and wasn't "officially" a sith, I think that her close proximity to the sith power plays in TCW might be able to qualify her. After all, most Dark Jedi are more interested in themselves and material wealth such as Set Harth *spelling?* yet Ventress seemed quite eager to further the sith ideals in the war.

 

Though with that type of distinction in mind brings the Imperial Inquisitors to question since they were similar, and persecuted the jedi, yet the key difference I think is that of purpose. Most of the Inquisitors are jedi who turned to the dark side and then in turn hunt jedi themselves to either turn or kill them. Somewhat of a war of conversion. Ventress however was quite sith-like and never tried to subjugate a jedi to the dark side, she simply attempted to kill them all. Then again, another key difference is that the Inquisitors do not really have a master in the sense that they are apprenticed in any way. They have more of an "informal training" more than anything but a few have managed to pick up very powerful techniques from groups such as the Prophets of the Dark Side. Sith on the other hand are consistently learning new things from a set master, such as Sideous to Dooku or Dooku to Ventress.

 

Side Note: I know I made a few discrepancy errors but I often find it hard to place Ventress or others like her, so I was merely trying to demonstrate what I meant by that I consider her a sith more than a dark jedi. Though, many Dark Jedi do become Sith.

 

After Thought: As for lumping Dark Jedi with the other misc. force cults of the galaxy for the 3rd category, I full heartedly agree.

 

Edit: Edited a little to fix a few inaccuracies in the last paragraph.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Silenceo

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ventress was never realized/recognized as a Sith so I'm keeping her under as a Dark Jedi, really if were gonna place the Dark Jedi and cults in with her. Then I could actually see her being 2nd to Talzin(depending if or not were including Talzin at full power on Dathomir). Because everyone else is just.....such utter **** or they have hardly any appearances.

 

I'm not even sure there could even be a list for individuals really. Or at least not to the extent of the Jedi/Sith lists.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

I actually tend to consider Ventress as a Sith due to some of the story arcs seen in TCW, where Sideous considered her a potential apprentice of Dooku's and forced him to kill her. Or at least try to. Though she was originally a jedi and wasn't "officially" a sith, I think that her close proximity to the sith power plays in TCW might be able to qualify her. After all, most Dark Jedi are more interested in themselves and material wealth such as Set Harth *spelling?* yet Ventress seemed quite eager to further the sith ideals in the war.

 

Though with that type of distinction in mind brings the Imperial Inquisitors to question since they were similar, and persecuted the jedi, yet the key difference I think is that of purpose. Most of the Inquisitors are jedi who turned to the dark side and then in turn hunt jedi themselves to either turn or kill them. Somewhat of a war of conversion. Ventress however was quite sith-like and never tried to subjugate a jedi to the dark side, she simply attempted to kill them all. Then again, another key difference is that the Inquisitors do not really have a master in the sense that they are apprenticed in any way. They have more of an "informal training" more than anything but a few have managed to pick up very powerful techniques from groups such as the Prophets of the Dark Side. Sith on the other hand are consistently learning new things from a set master, such as Sideous to Dooku or Dooku to Ventress.

 

Side Note: I know I made a few discrepancy errors but I often find it hard to place Ventress or others like her, so I was merely trying to demonstrate what I meant by that I consider her a sith more than a dark jedi. Though, many Dark Jedi do become Sith.

 

After Thought: As for lumping Dark Jedi with the other misc. force cults of the galaxy for the 3rd category, I full heartedly agree.

 

Edit: Edited a little to fix a few inaccuracies in the last paragraph.

 

Dooku never really trained Ventress in the Sith arts. He only gave her bits and pieces to keep her satisfied, but never really took her on as an apprentice. In fact in Dark Rendezvous he outright states that he doesn't want an apprentice at all. The people he trained during the war were nothing more than servants trained in a similar manner to General Grievous. They were trained fighters, but certainly not apprentices.

[Aurbere]

Ventress was never realized/recognized as a Sith so I'm keeping her under as a Dark Jedi, really if were gonna place the Dark Jedi and cults in with her. Then I could actually see her being 2nd to Talzin(depending if or not were including Talzin at full power on Dathomir). Because everyone else is just.....such utter **** or they have hardly any appearances.

 

I'm not even sure there could even be a list for individuals really. Or at least not to the extent of the Jedi/Sith lists.

 

Don't forget Gethzerion.

[Silenceo]

Dooku never really trained Ventress in the Sith arts. He only gave her bits and pieces to keep her satisfied, but never really took her on as an apprentice. In fact in Dark Rendezvous he outright states that he doesn't want an apprentice at all. The people he trained during the war were nothing more than servants trained in a similar manner to General Grievous. They were trained fighters, but certainly not apprentices.

 

Makes sense then. So if we were to make a 3rd group, do you think that there would even be enough contenders to keep it interesting? I mean, there are certainly different types of force power, and granted Talzin can do some crazy stuff, but are there not other cults with other techniques that could in theory rival such sorcery? Wouldn't be that great of a list if it was comprised of only a few small groups since it would be the *misc* category essentially for force users.

[Aurbere]

Makes sense then. So if we were to make a 3rd group, do you think that there would even be enough contenders to keep it interesting? I mean, there are certainly different types of force power, and granted Talzin can do some crazy stuff, but are there not other cults with other techniques that could in theory rival such sorcery? Wouldn't be that great of a list if it was comprised of only a few small groups since it would be the *misc* category essentially for force users.

 

It depends on who we would consider, and what the criteria is for consideration.

[Beniboybling]

Greetings! I really enjoyed reading through these topics, but I have a question! Will these lists be re-examined according to the new Disney canon rules at any point? Just wondering, not a pressing matter, by any means. Cheers!

I figured it would be best to just slot any new post-ROTJ characters in with the old ones, after all the purpose of this list is to assist debate and discussion, an out-of-universe context - we don't have to abide by continuity. Though of course specific characters powers are changed, the list will have to reflect that, because we do have to abide by canon.

[Beniboybling]

I still think It's ridiculous that you put Fay at 3.

 

She appeared in ONE Comic, should be excluded for this very reason, she really doesn't have enough showings. We can't just say "Oh, but she did this to Ventress that no one else did" therefore using that to deduce that she's one of the best.

 

Traya's foresight was the strongest We've ever seen, beating out even Palpatine. Yet for some reason, the rest of us don't go around saying she's uber-more powerful than Papa palps, oh I wonder why

I don't see what relevance Traya's powers have on this subject, that's a totally different ball park and we fully understand why. Nor do I see what bearing the number of times a character has appeared in a SW universe has either. Powers were demonstrates, accolades where given, that outstrip the powers of others.

 

Really, I feel we have enough information on Fay to rank her, and information that demonstrates her to be a powerful Force wielder, as opposed to Traya - an individual with a strong, innate understanding of the Cosmic Force.

 

And of course we've have this discussion ten times over, I feel I've defended Fay adequately. Not to say that your opinion is invalid, but I don't see an argument here that elicits taking one of the only Jedi of the Most Powerful list.

 

P.S. Lots of people have performed mental attacks before, not just Fay, that being one of several of her powers. If you want to explain exactly why this isn't special, then feel free, but we can't just go off generalized notions.

[Canino]

I still think It's ridiculous that you put Fay at 3.

 

She appeared in ONE Comic, should be excluded for this very reason, she really doesn't have enough showings. We can't just say "Oh, but she did this to Ventress that no one else did" therefore using that to deduce that she's one of the best.

 

Traya's foresight was the strongest We've ever seen, beating out even Palpatine. Yet for some reason, the rest of us don't go around saying she's uber-more powerful than Papa palps, oh I wonder why

 

Traya has appeared in ONE game. And while I agree she is quite powerful, a decent amount of what we give her credit for/ how powerful they are is pure speculation. And I mean PURE.

 

I don't want to get into a Traya debate now, but that's basically the argument you are presenting. Because Fay has only battled Ventress, that means little. But Traya has only battled, what, 6 people? And some of that is deleted game bits and things that are only dark side, while Meetra is a light sided character.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Canino

[Darkelefantos]

I'd also like to have an extra category for people who are neither Sith nor Jedi. Like Ventress or Grievous(duelist only obviously). Obviously still without Force Entities, but I'd really like that to be a thing.

 

Also Beni, a proposition, you should make all names in the index links to their Wookieepedia articles. It would really help if you are unfamiliar with say Master Fay and then could just click her name and immediately read up on her without having to do that on your own. You know, for the convenience of everyone interested

 

PS: Since we are now officially filing complains about the index here (thanks Selenial ), I'm going to join in. I still feel that Maul is a better duelist than Obi-Wan.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'd also like to have an extra category for people who are neither Sith nor Jedi. Like Ventress or Grievous(duelist only obviously). Obviously still without Force Entities, but I'd really like that to be a thing.

 

Also Beni, a proposition, you should make all names in the index links to their Wookieepedia articles. It would really help if you are unfamiliar with say Master Fay and then could just click her name and immediately read up on her without having to do that on your own. You know, for the convenience of everyone interested

 

PS: Since we are now officially filing complains about the index here (thanks Selenial ), I'm going to join in. I still feel that Maul is a better duelist than Obi-Wan.

 

Maul is a better duelist, or actually if we take them at their prime it could just be a stalemate ...now that I look at it. I am really wondering, why he is low and why Kun is so high..

 

In fact looking further, some positions do need to be re-done.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi