PvP'ers get the shaft when it come to money making options!

[Reno_Tarshil]

I suspect that is the case. He can't dismiss me out of hand w/out giving away his "something for nothing" agenda, so it's better to call me a troll and add me to his ignore list.

 

It's pretty sad.

[Malckiah]

So, are we in agreement that the only way to make sure that PvE and PvP are treated the same is that PvP requires you to win the matches to qualify for your dailies and weeklies, assuming the mission rewards are similar? Again, PvE doesn't reward for failure to complete missions, so why should PvP reward failure? Since the monetary gain would then be the same, I believe it's only fair that you start paying repair costs as well. This assures all involved that PvP and PvE are being treated the same across the board. After all, as it stands right now, the balance is tipped to PvP; you get rewarded for failure, and don't have to pay to fix your gear after you fail to complete the content. So, yes? No? If no, why not? This proposal gives you everything you wanted except a unique crafting item to sell on the GTN or by spamming /Trade.

 

No we are not in agreement and that is not a good idea at all. And I will tell you why.

1. In pvp you are up against real people who often group and go in together to have an optimal chance to win. When this happens those teams will win pretty much every match leaving the constant losers totally broke having earned nothing. Those people will not continue to play pvp and the queue pops will get even worse. Don't forget the game is alive because of subscribers and peole who pay into it.... if your plan is to scare people off its not a good plan!

 

2. When I do pve dailies I get money and comms for COMPLETING the daily. So to be equal I would simply need to COMPLETE the pvp match.

[robertthebard]

No we are not in agreement and that is not a good idea at all. And I will tell you why.

1. In pvp you are up against real people who often group and go in together to have an optimal chance to win. When this happens those teams will win pretty much every match leaving the constant losers totally broke having earned nothing. Those people will not continue to play pvp and the queue pops will get even worse. Don't forget the game is alive because of subscribers and peole who pay into it.... if your plan is to scare people off its not a good plan!

 

What's stopping you from having your own team? I mean, I understand exactly how PvP works, but when I feel the need to PvP, I go play Aion, because, as an Asmodian on an Elyos dominated server, there's always plenty of PvP to be had. There, we get special currency to buy special gear for PvP. When I was very active, we did our PvP instances as a guild, on Vent, so we could be coordinated as well as the other team, even if we were undergeared for them, if we were. WZs are a team thing, it makes sense to have a team, and it may make your queue times faster. Not sure on that last part, but anything's possible, I guess.

 

For the first 6 years that I played Rappelz, they had an active PvP server where the loser could drop gear. It was active the entire time I was active there, and only recently got shut down due to a total population drop in the entire game. But all of those people and all of my guildies in Aion understood risk vs reward. If you die in PvP in Aion you lost AP(Abyss Points) that were used to buy gear. Everyone knew it going in, and everyone that played it, and still plays it still knows.

 

2. When I do pve dailies I get money and comms for COMPLETING the daily. So to be equal I would simply need to COMPLETE the pvp match.

 

Yes, for completing the mission, meaning you did what you set out to do. This is the same definition that should apply to WZs, if you don't win, you didn't complete the objective, because nobody really joins PvP planning to lose, right? A timer shouldn't be a reason to invalidate win to get paid, especially if the rewards are to be increased to be the same as PvE dailies. This is your incentive; if you win, you get paid, if you lose, you get nothing. I pay a sub, these changes, even if I were active in WZs, wouldn't drive me off, it would just drive me to make sure I built a solid team, instead of solo queues. Hell, it might even improve the quality of PvP since it would encourage team play, instead of 4 solo artists running amok trying to do stuff.

 

For the way PvP works right now, I see the system as being fine. If, however, you're going to jack up the rewards, you're going to have to jack up the requirements for those rewards, because right now, win or lose, you get paid and get to finish your dailies and weeklies. This tips the scale, as I mentioned, towards PvP, since nothing in PvE rewards failure. If you want it to be fair to everyone, which is what you're after, yes, then you need it to be fair. Saying "Ok, even though you failed to win any matches, you're going to get xx credits" isn't fair to anyone but the guy that didn't win any matches, and still got paid as if he did.

Edited May 17, 2014 by robertthebard

[Malckiah]

What's stopping you from having your own team? I mean, I understand exactly how PvP works, but when I feel the need to PvP, I go play Aion, because, as an Asmodian on an Elyos dominated server, there's always plenty of PvP to be had. There, we get special currency to buy special gear for PvP. When I was very active, we did our PvP instances as a guild, on Vent, so we could be coordinated as well as the other team, even if we were undergeared for them, if we were. WZs are a team thing, it makes sense to have a team, and it may make your queue times faster. Not sure on that last part, but anything's possible, I guess.

 

For the first 6 years that I played Rappelz, they had an active PvP server where the loser could drop gear. It was active the entire time I was active there, and only recently got shut down due to a total population drop in the entire game. But all of those people and all of my guildies in Aion understood risk vs reward. If you die in PvP in Aion you lost AP(Abyss Points) that were used to buy gear. Everyone knew it going in, and everyone that played it, and still plays it still knows.

 

2. When I do pve dailies I get money and comms for COMPLETING the daily. So to be equal I would simply need to COMPLETE the pvp match.

 

 

 

Um I do have my own team.... I was thinking about others and the game when I said that. Just for the record again I love this game. I have been a subscriber since prelaunch and participated in beta 3 times before it came out. I have no issues with it. I love all the content in the game. I just have personal preferences as do we all.

 

Also as stated in my last post if you give money only to wins, people will leave and queue times will suffer even more. As well I was never asking for the daily/weekly payout to be the same....that wouldn't help at all to be honest. I was asking that there would be opportunities within pvp (beit through pvp comms or whatever) to earn big money like I can get doing pve content. To increase payout on daily and weekly quests would never be a big enough increase. We are talking te difference between 1.3 million max a week for pvp (and that's pushing it) and 8.5 million in a week doing only pve dailies. That is a huge difference in money earning.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Malckiah

[DarthMaulUK]

I only PvP and been here since launch and my main toon is loaded. Hell, I even give money away to new players to help start them out, I give money to my guild (over 10 million) - the list goes on.

 

How do I make so much? Selling on the GTN. I am sitting on a gold mine in an untapped market. You're going to have to by my book - 'I wanna be a Ho' today to find out out.

Edited May 17, 2014 by DarthMaulUK

[robertthebard]

Um I do have my own team.... I was thinking about others and the game when I said that. Just for the record again I love this game. I have been a subscriber since prelaunch and participated in beta 3 times before it came out. I have no issues with it. I love all the content in the game. I just have personal preferences as do we all.

 

Also as stated in my last post if you give money only to wins, people will leave and queue times will suffer even more. As well I was never asking for the daily/weekly payout to be the same....that wouldn't help at all to be honest. I was asking that there would be opportunities within pvp (beit through pvp comms or whatever) to earn big money like I can get doing pve content. To increase payout on daily and weekly quests would never be a big enough increase. We are talking te difference between 1.3 million max a week for pvp (and that's pushing it) and 8.5 million in a week doing only pve dailies. That is a huge difference in money earning.

 

I guess this is a fundamental difference between us; If I have to win to get paid, I'm going to go all out to win. If I lose, I'm going to try to evaluate what I did wrong, if anything, and improve what I can. Note that sometimes you're going to lose because the other team is just better, or has a better balance, or maybe even simply got the drop on you. Any or all these could happen. However, just like losing at chess, it's a learning experience, and a solid team will learn from it.

 

Some people may leave, some won't. Some may even see the risk vs reward in higher payouts in the dailies and try harder. PvP, just like PvE is made of all kinds of personality types, so I don't doubt some are simply exploiting(for lack of a better word, definitely not meant in the usual connotation)the current situation to get what they want. The thing is, if we're trying to be fair to everyone, that's going to be a likely consequence. This is why I feel the system is fine as it is. People that feel like they are needing credits more than PvP, can simply do what they have to do to make them, w/out having to make drastic changes to the current system, and from what I've seen on the math, it's not like PvP doesn't pay at all.

 

Sometimes, it's better to leave well enough alone, and really, since you and I agree on the cons/potential cons of this suggestion, we can both see that maybe it's better to leave it alone. Because if they just add substantially more credits to PvP mission rewards w/out adding anything to balance it, it's going to cause even more problems with others. My suggestion adds some balance to the equation, making PvE and PvP missions pay on the same criteria, successful completion to garner the reward. If we're trying to go for equality here, something is going to need to be done, otherwise, the other school of thought is going to set the forums on fire about just giving away credits to PvPers because they PvP.

[Malckiah]

I guess this is a fundamental difference between us; If I have to win to get paid, I'm going to go all out to win. If I lose, I'm going to try to evaluate what I did wrong, if anything, and improve what I can. Note that sometimes you're going to lose because the other team is just better, or has a better balance, or maybe even simply got the drop on you. Any or all these could happen. However, just like losing at chess, it's a learning experience, and a solid team will learn from it.

 

Some people may leave, some won't. Some may even see the risk vs reward in higher payouts in the dailies and try harder. PvP, just like PvE is made of all kinds of personality types, so I don't doubt some are simply exploiting(for lack of a better word, definitely not meant in the usual connotation)the current situation to get what they want. The thing is, if we're trying to be fair to everyone, that's going to be a likely consequence. This is why I feel the system is fine as it is. People that feel like they are needing credits more than PvP, can simply do what they have to do to make them, w/out having to make drastic changes to the current system, and from what I've seen on the math, it's not like PvP doesn't pay at all.

 

Sometimes, it's better to leave well enough alone, and really, since you and I agree on the cons/potential cons of this suggestion, we can both see that maybe it's better to leave it alone. Because if they just add substantially more credits to PvP mission rewards w/out adding anything to balance it, it's going to cause even more problems with others. My suggestion adds some balance to the equation, making PvE and PvP missions pay on the same criteria, successful completion to garner the reward. If we're trying to go for equality here, something is going to need to be done, otherwise, the other school of thought is going to set the forums on fire about just giving away credits to PvPers because they PvP.

 

Lets not be so quick to try and point out differences... I am the same in that I also would go all out to win.... but that doesn't help those who would be losing as I posted before.... and that many constant losers not getting anything would result in a bigger loss to the game as a whole. Pvp already needs more people playing to keep up the queue pop....It would not be wise to implement a plan that would lessen it more.

 

You said, "Because if they just add substantially more credits to PvP mission rewards w/out adding anything to balance it, it's going to cause even more problems with others."..... I ask how? Jealousy? I mean really there are no nerfs to the "others"

And why not give credits to pvp'ers because the pvp....They give credits to pve'ers because they pve. Besides it is already implemented that if you lose you get way less pay out. If you lose in an arena match you are lucky to get 30 comms and very little credits, so I am not sure what more you want!

[Duniss]

LOL....you guys are doin all the work for me! According to your flawed figures I can make 1.426.000 credits per week doing pvp! WOW....thanks for proving my point yet again! Because I showed how you can easily make 8.5 mil a week doing just pve dailies....see the huge difference in money there??... Hence the reason I made this thread! THANKS AGAIN!!!

Yea whats esier then doing dalies for 60h per weak and winning 3mmg from ops. I love doing ops in 3 weaks doing nim df I lost close to 1 mil on repairs won 1 mmg and some gear killed 12 bosses in those 3 weaks. MMG on my serv is 500k so that leaves me at -500k. So by doing what I like to do in game I lost 500k credits on repairs not counting stims and adrenals I used. I hate runing dailies like any other sensible person. I coverd my loses whit selling stims. Only reason I would run dalies 60h per weak would be if it would cure cancer or stop starvation in real life. Newsflash nobody likes doing dalies you pvp or pve player those are equaly boring for both. There are difrent type of players in game some love leveling alts others like do pvp some like ops and so on. Havent met a single player in game that would say my favorite part of the game is grinding dailies not even one... But somehow by your logic every pve player does those because it counts as pve. If I desperetly need money in game hell I will grind dailies... But If I want to make "big money" crafting or gnt will be my choice

Edited May 17, 2014 by Duniss

[Reno_Tarshil]

Lets not be so quick to try and point out differences... I am the same in that I also would go all out to win.... but that doesn't help those who would be losing as I posted before.... and that many constant losers not getting anything would result in a bigger loss to the game as a whole. Pvp already needs more people playing to keep up the queue pop....It would not be wise to implement a plan that would lessen it more.

 

You said, "Because if they just add substantially more credits to PvP mission rewards w/out adding anything to balance it, it's going to cause even more problems with others."..... I ask how? Jealousy? I mean really there are no nerfs to the "others"

And why not give credits to pvp'ers because the pvp....They give credits to pve'ers because they pve. Besides it is already implemented that if you lose you get way less pay out. If you lose in an arena match you are lucky to get 30 comms and very little credits, so I am not sure what more you want!

 

Everyone who's already tried to explain to you why just giving you a credit increase with no drawbacks is a bad idea. Try to keep up.

[Malckiah]

Everyone who's already tried to explain to you why just giving you a credit increase with no drawbacks is a bad idea. Try to keep up.

 

Really....please show me because I didn't see it.

[Drayvis]

His thread titles get attention - that's the point of creating a thread. Ever read the headlines on the mags they sell at the grocery store in the check out isle? They are meant to suck you in, much like his thread titles do. Nothing wrong with what he titles it imo.

 

Contrary to the old saying, there is indeed such thing as bad publicity. "Getting attention" by inciting anger only creates a flamewar, not a meaningful discussion.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Really....please show me because I didn't see it.

 

Of course you didn't. You have an entire thread to read through (and I actually mean read this time, not gloss over while cherry picking things to fit your agenda.)

[Malckiah]

Of course you didn't. You have an entire thread to read through (and I actually mean read this time, not gloss over while cherry picking things to fit your agenda.)

 

I have been reading it....but really please enlighten me why it would be bad for pvp'ers to have the opportunity through pvp to make money comparable to what you can make through pve.??

[Varium]

1. Slicing

2. Arms/Armortech/Synthweaing

3.????

4.PROFIT!!!

[Malckiah]

1. Slicing

2. Arms/Armortech/Synthweaing

3.????

4.PROFIT!!!

 

Um....not sure what your trying to say here?

[OddballEasyEight]

Oh well Its nice that reposted what he said....I put that troll on ignore a while ago and therefore do not see his posts now....lol. You can qft whatever you want but unfortunately the king of twisting words that he is has neglected bringing forth constructive posts to the thread and is only interested in causing trouble.

 

To prove my point...Attacking me as a person, which is what he continues to do, has nothing to do with discussing the thread topic.

 

Oh you have called me plenty of names so don't think you can sit there and play the holier-than-thou chard.

 

You are the troll here. You can't even take someone disagreeing with you without resorting to namecalling and even ignoring them.

 

It's time you started behaving like an adult.

I have said my piece.

[Malckiah]

Oh you have called me plenty of names so don't think you can sit there and play the holier-than-thou chard.

 

You are the troll here. You can't even take someone disagreeing with you without resorting to namecalling and even ignoring them.

 

It's time you started behaving like an adult.

I have said my piece.

 

1. I don't know what a chard is.

2. I have made it clear earlier that I claim no holier than though status. I can be a jerk just like you.

3. If you look through this thread you will see that I have put a lot of effort into trying to discuss the topic with others.

4. I have only ignored 1 person and it was because they only caused trouble bringing nothing productive to the thread. Well there have been several do that, but this one in particular did it relentlessly.

5. As you can see everyone has been so kind toward me on here.... I sometimes feel the urge to be kind in return.

6. Now I have said my PEACE.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Malckiah

[ivanhedgehog]

I play this game and it is the game I want to play. In these forums you will find tons of people posting desires of changes they would like implemented in the game. So is your answer to all of them ...."you'd be better off playing a game by NcSoft"?? I mean really. I posted a thread asking for a possible change... it's my way of bringing something to the table in hopes to be heard an perhaps see an improvement in the game. If they don't change it I will still play the game and go on.

As far as your final response about adding repair cost.... There is a reason that pvp has no repair cost.... because in pvp you are going to die....and lots of times. Heck some people die 15 times in just 15 minutes. This is not the norm in pve. Infact I never die when doing pve dailies....do you? Why not increase the opportunity to make money as I have asked to be equal or close to that of what you can make in pve....after repair costs. Every time I have brought forth monetary figures on how much you can make in pve I always pre subtract repair costs. But adding repair bill to pvp would not even make sense... there is already a queue pop issue.

And I do not want to limit myself only to pvp.... I want to have the opportunity to make around equal money doing pvp while I am pvp'ing that I would doing other content.

 

dont suck so much and you wont die. people die in ops. when you have mobs doing 175k damage in 1 hit that is going to happen. so should they remove repair costs for ops?

[Drayvis]

So you ignore everyone who disagrees with you?

 

Tragic.

 

Not sure if he's a troll or just a bratty kid...

[Malckiah]

Not sure if he's a troll or just a bratty kid...

 

I said I ignored 1 person.... many have disagreed in this thread.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Malckiah

[Tsillah]

And I do not want to limit myself only to pvp....

 

Well, then what's the problem. If you don't want to limit yourself to pvp, I guess you want to pve also. Well done, you can make the cash you need there.

 

Listen, this game never had pvp on number one and whether some people like to shout differently or not doesn't change the simple reality that this game is more about pve because that's what people in this game spend the most time on. How do I know that? Simple. If people were more pvp focused you wouldn't have had to wait so long for new pvp conten. Pve gets new stuff constantly. It only makes business sense to spend resources on what most customers want and keeps them playing.

 

You may want that changed but I don't see that as realistic until the majority of players finds pvp a top priority. Considering what's to come this year, it's clear pvp is in there but pve is still the main focus and that can only be if that's what the customers are doing. To introduce more money into pvp creates all kinds of other balance issues.

 

What you need to understand is that changes like this cannot just be added without consequences to the entire game. So they will need to rebalance everything money wise.

 

So tell me, are you ready to pay for repair costs after dying in pvp, because it's going to take things like that to make something like this possible and I am pretty sure that that will kill pvp in this game completely.

 

Instead of just throwing out unrealistic ideas, how about a serious attempt on HOW to implement such things without ruining the economy in game and without making pvp a completely easy mode gold farm? Then every pve'er will start playing and ruining your precious pvp with their "noob" playstyle.

[Malckiah]

Well, then what's the problem. If you don't want to limit yourself to pvp, I guess you want to pve also. Well done, you can make the cash you need there.

 

Listen, this game never had pvp on number one and whether some people like to shout differently or not doesn't change the simple reality that this game is more about pve because that's what people in this game spend the most time on. How do I know that? Simple. If people were more pvp focused you wouldn't have had to wait so long for new pvp conten. Pve gets new stuff constantly. It only makes business sense to spend resources on what most customers want and keeps them playing.

 

You may want that changed but I don't see that as realistic until the majority of players finds pvp a top priority. Considering what's to come this year, it's clear pvp is in there but pve is still the main focus and that can only be if that's what the customers are doing. To introduce more money into pvp creates all kinds of other balance issues.

 

What you need to understand is that changes like this cannot just be added without consequences to the entire game. So they will need to rebalance everything money wise.

 

So tell me, are you ready to pay for repair costs after dying in pvp, because it's going to take things like that to make something like this possible and I am pretty sure that that will kill pvp in this game completely.

 

Instead of just throwing out unrealistic ideas, how about a serious attempt on HOW to implement such things without ruining the economy in game and without making pvp a completely easy mode gold farm? Then every pve'er will start playing and ruining your precious pvp with their "noob" playstyle.

 

I am not trying to be mean... I appreciate the time you took to type all that. But you really need to read through the thread.... all that has been addressed already a few times. And there are noobs in pvp all the time....it hurts nothing, but helps queue times.

[Tsillah]

I am not trying to be mean... I appreciate the time you took to type all that. But you really need to read through the thread.... all that has been addressed already a few times. And there are noobs in pvp all the time....it hurts nothing, but helps queue times.

 

Oh no, I am not goin to read through all of it, that would be a real waste of time. Never forget that this is still a game forum and general at that.

 

You can say all you want and even feel like you've "won" the conversation, but it means nothing. There are a handful of people here who want to make a lot more money from pvp in game but the comments I've read don't offer any solutions for the negative impact it would have on the game. Nothing realistic and perhaps there is a gem in these pages here somewhere but I don't think so.

 

As usual my comments do not get a direct reply and that just means people are dodging my points. That means to me they have no real counter for it and so I still think this is yet another ill thought out idea.

 

And if you see how many so called pvp 'ers complain when pve'ers show up in the warzones with their pve gear, then you might as well consider yourself an exception in that.

 

All in all there still isn't a convincing reason to implement more credit gain in pvp. The only argument is "I want this and I don't want to do it another way". Well good luck with that. Different things in game give different rewards. If you really don't want to do pve then you don't need the creds to pvp and if you do want to pve then you don't need to make the creds in pvp cause you'll get them from doing pve.

[Malckiah]

Oh no, I am not goin to read through all of it, that would be a real waste of time. Never forget that this is still a game forum and general at that.

 

You can say all you want and even feel like you've "won" the conversation, but it means nothing. There are a handful of people here who want to make a lot more money from pvp in game but the comments I've read don't offer any solutions for the negative impact it would have on the game. Nothing realistic and perhaps there is a gem in these pages here somewhere but I don't think so.

 

As usual my comments do not get a direct reply and that just means people are dodging my points. That means to me they have no real counter for it and so I still think this is yet another ill thought out idea.

 

And if you see how many so called pvp 'ers complain when pve'ers show up in the warzones with their pve gear, then you might as well consider yourself an exception in that.

 

All in all there still isn't a convincing reason to implement more credit gain in pvp. The only argument is "I want this and I don't want to do it another way". Well good luck with that. Different things in game give different rewards. If you really don't want to do pve then you don't need the creds to pvp and if you do want to pve then you don't need to make the creds in pvp cause you'll get them from doing pve.

 

Please tell me what "negative impact" it would have because that is one thing people are afraid to talk about. But try to make it make sense, because I will pick at it when your done..... if you do it at all.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Please tell me what "negative impact" it would have because that is one thing people are afraid to talk about. But try to make it make sense, because I will pick at it when your done..... if you do it at all.

 

Why should he bother, we've told you it already yet you refuse to listen anyways.