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[Blizzax]

Yes, you did. Thank you.

I guess you will have tested that a long time ago. All "documentation" I found just stated "damage" in case of F1. Where other increases explicitly referred to "base dps".

[Greezt]

So far every single % boost in GSF is additive. Meaning if you have 3 10% increases, they each take from the base amount and add each one. Those 3 10% boosts would equal 130% total once all added up.

 

I hope I answered what you were looking for?

 

So, does this mean that F1 only adds 10% of base damage to whatever modifiers you have? This would make it much less important than I though... I always assumed that it added 10% of base before modifiers.

[Blizzax]

Actually the order of the modifiers doesn't matter as all are added and then applied to base dps.

[Greezt]

Actually the order of the modifiers doesn't matter as all are added and then applied to base dps.

 

So, let's say I will be firing a shot for 400 damage, with balanced power. With F1 this is 440, and with DO+F1 it's 840? I always assumed DO will bring damage up to 880 in this case.

[RickDagles]

I think DO does double the end damage. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to one-shot anyone with a point blank BLC shot.

[Blizzax]

My assumption for a critical DO hit is:

base*(upgrades+components+crew+-F#)*crit*DO

 

Remark: Crew is hypothetical as there currently is no crew member with a dps increase.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Blizzax

[Drakkolich]

My assumption for a critical DO hit is:

base*(upgrades+components+crew+-F#)*crit*DO

 

Remark: Crew is hypothetical as there currently is no crew member with a dps increase.

 

So fun stuff I've been doing some research on this the past few days, watching videos to figure out the math behind DO because you had me curious.

 

Turns out DO works just like any other % buff in the game it only amplifies base damage.

 

The easiest example was a Slug with the 10% extra damage upgrade hits for 1760 max damage, while a DO Slug with the same upgrade hits for 3360 max damage. 3360 - 1760 = 1600 the Base damage for a Slug shot.

 

I went through about 30 videos and for the life of me I cannot find a time when I shot a DO Slug shot at max charge and crit with someone surviving. If someone happens to find a video of this happening in my videos on youtube or one of their own please link it to use here.

 

 

As it stands I'm not sure how crits change DO hits, but I have a plan! I'm going to start scouring my videos for missiles criting while I have DO, this should provide us with our answer. (If someone else has some free time and wants to go through some videos to find it that would be much appreciated, if you find the answer just let us know here thanks!)

 

 

Sorry for the late response I just didn't know the answer for sure off the top of my head and needed to put the time in to figure it out.

[Danalon]

So I guess we need to check if a fully charged slug railgun crit with DO does 4000 or 4800 damage. Or do we look for other numbers? Edited May 2, 2016 by Danalon

[Drakkolich]

So I guess we need to check if a fully charged slug railgun crit with DO does 4000 or 4800 damage. Or do we look for other numbers?

 

You nailed it

 

Is it 1600 + 800(crit bonus) + 1600(Do bonus) = 4000.

 

Or is it 1600 + 800(crit bonus) + 1600(Do bonus) +800(Do bonus from crit)= 4800.

 

I keep trying to find a DO crit in my videos but I can't seem to find one, just look for any Red numbers above 4000 and we'll know.

[Danalon]

That means any DO slug crit over 4k proves it's 4800. That includes shots that weren't fully charged and the target doesn't have to survive.

 

The reason you can't find anything is that there are only very few builds with that much hp and usually they get ion railed first.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Danalon

[Blizzax]

Great you proved DO works like all the other damage modifiers.

 

From a mechanics perspective DO seems to be some kind of a much bigger more single-minded brother of BO.

As such I'd expect DO to be amplified in case of a critical hit.

 

This would result in a maximum damage output of 5040 points on a DO crit while in F1.

(1600 * 210% * 150%)

[RickDagles]

I think this question may have been asked before but I can't find it.

 

When you switch to F2, do you get the immediate 120% shield boost or do you have to wait for the shields to actually turn blue? This could be really important info for countering feedback shield quickly.

Edited May 5, 2016 by RickDagles

[Drakkolich]

I think this question may have been asked before but I can't find it.

 

When you switch to F2, do you get the immediate 120% shield boost or do you have to wait for the shields to actually turn blue? This could be really important info for countering feedback shield quickly.

 

You only gain a Maximum shield boost in power to shields. So if you are currently at 50% shields and in power to engines when you swap to power to shields you will still have the same amount of shields you just now have a higher maximum you can regenerate too. (Not to mention double the regeneration to get there)

[WiseStranger]

Great you proved DO works like all the other damage modifiers.

 

From a mechanics perspective DO seems to be some kind of a much bigger more single-minded brother of BO.

As such I'd expect DO to be amplified in case of a critical hit.

 

This would result in a maximum damage output of 5040 points on a DO crit while in F1.

(1600 * 210% * 150%)

 

Just in case you didn't know. Power settings don't affect railguns.

[RickDagles]

You only gain a Maximum shield boost in power to shields. So if you are currently at 50% shields and in power to engines when you swap to power to shields you will still have the same amount of shields you just now have a higher maximum you can regenerate too. (Not to mention double the regeneration to get there)

 

My wording could have been better. I meant - if you are flying in F3 with full shields and are approaching a stationary feedback gunship, when you switch to F2 can you immediately shoot him? If you follow the GUI it takes your shields about 2 seconds to turn from yellow to blue. Should I wait these 2 seconds or is the GUI update lagged?

[Blizzax]

Just in case you didn't know. Power settings don't affect railguns.

 

Thanks. I misread the mentioning of 10% in Drako's post.

[Drakkolich]

My wording could have been better. I meant - if you are flying in F3 with full shields and are approaching a stationary feedback gunship, when you switch to F2 can you immediately shoot him? If you follow the GUI it takes your shields about 2 seconds to turn from yellow to blue. Should I wait these 2 seconds or is the GUI update lagged?

 

If you have not taken any damage in power to engines (F3) you will be at 90% shields. When you swap to power to shields (F2) you will still be at 90% and will immediately start regenerating shields up to 120%.

 

So yes when you swap to power to shields wait until your shields recharge before firing on a feedback shielded Gunship.

[Drakkolich]

Thanks. I misread the mentioning of 10% in Drako's post.

 

No big deal the 10% I was talking about was coming from the T5 upgrade on Slug Railgun that makes it do 10% more damage.

[Blizzax]

Yep, seen it. Was too focused on all the blaster damage calculations the last days.

[RickDagles]

If you have not taken any damage in power to engines (F3) you will be at 90% shields. When you swap to power to shields (F2) you will still be at 90% and will immediately start regenerating shields up to 120%.

 

So yes when you swap to power to shields wait until your shields recharge before firing on a feedback shielded Gunship.

 

Ah that makes sense, good to know thanks.

[Greezt]

So fun stuff I've been doing some research on this the past few days, watching videos to figure out the math behind DO because you had me curious.

 

Turns out DO works just like any other % buff in the game it only amplifies base damage.

 

The easiest example was a Slug with the 10% extra damage upgrade hits for 1760 max damage, while a DO Slug with the same upgrade hits for 3360 max damage. 3360 - 1760 = 1600 the Base damage for a Slug shot.

 

I went through about 30 videos and for the life of me I cannot find a time when I shot a DO Slug shot at max charge and crit with someone surviving. If someone happens to find a video of this happening in my videos on youtube or one of their own please link it to use here.

 

 

As it stands I'm not sure how crits change DO hits, but I have a plan! I'm going to start scouring my videos for missiles criting while I have DO, this should provide us with our answer. (If someone else has some free time and wants to go through some videos to find it that would be much appreciated, if you find the answer just let us know here thanks!)

 

 

Sorry for the late response I just didn't know the answer for sure off the top of my head and needed to put the time in to figure it out.

 

I've had a DO crit for 4704 today (on a fortress gunship). No record of it, sadly, but that's it.

 

Would you say the crit upgrade is better, or more preferable since it affects DOs too?

[voltaicbore]

I've uniformly found crit to be a better choice for me on Quarrels/Manglers. It's not that often that a target gets away from me with just a sliver of hull left, meaning that the extra 160 would have made the kill. It's probably a function of how I hold and fire - most of the time I charge enough to very solidly make the kill, and only when I'm about to die or lose the target do I release a partial charge.

 

Then again, your question was really related to our DO discussion. I wish I had numbers, but I'm thinking Drakk is right - I have never seen anyone survive a fully charged crit DO rail. However, I rarely get the DO out of the gate, so I'm not sure if a fresh target with full shield/hull could manage it.

[RickDagles]

I've had a DO crit for 4704 today (on a fortress gunship). No record of it, sadly, but that's it.

 

Would you say the crit upgrade is better, or more preferable since it affects DOs too?

 

 

If you are able to grab a lot of DOs with your GS, I would say that the 1760 slug is preferable because you can 1-shot most Gunships and Strikes with it. The 1600 slug does not 1-shot the popular Gunship DF builds.

 

For someone that doesn't grab a lot of DOs, the crit option might be better. The crit option does give you a 1 in 6 chance to 1-shot a scout (without DO). However, against good Scouts I usually find myself just partly charging shots anyways. Keeping a full charge bead on them when they're zig zagging around can be a pretty big waste of blaster pool.

Edited May 11, 2016 by RickDagles

[Drakkolich]

I've had a DO crit for 4704 today (on a fortress gunship). No record of it, sadly, but that's it.

 

Would you say the crit upgrade is better, or more preferable since it affects DOs too?

 

Thanks for the confirmation. This means that criticals are the only think that is multiplicative instead of additive in the game so far.

 

I mean when you Slug something with DO I don't think were often going I really hope this crits. Most of the time they're going to die already. Like Siraka said the big different is in Gunship wars, if you have the +10% damage upgrade you can one shot the most popular Gunship build with DO. If you had the crit upgrade you would leave them with a sliver of health (unless you crit ofcourse).

 

This is one of the big reasons I use the +10% damage upgrade.

[RickDagles]

For someone that doesn't grab a lot of DOs, the crit option might be better. The crit option does give you a 1 in 6 chance to 1-shot a scout (without DO). However, against good Scouts I usually find myself just partly charging shots anyways. Keeping a full charge bead on them when they're zig zagging around can be a pretty big waste of blaster pool.

 

Two more positive things I didn't mention about the 1760 slug earlier...

 

Some quick math here:

 

1760x0.72 = 1267 shield damage

1760x0.28 = 493 hull penetration damage

 

A distortion field flashfire/sting flying in F1 or F3 has 1287 shields and 950 hull which means a full slug will leave it with 20 shields and 457 hull remaining.

 

A distortion field novadive/blackbolt in F1 or F3 has only 1053 shields (no large reactor) and 950 hull which means the slug will completely go through its shield and do more hull damage, leaving the ship with only 243 hull.

 

 

 

In comparison;

 

1600x0.72 = 1152 shield damage

1600x0.28 = 448 hull penetration damage

 

A distortion field flashfire/sting flying in F1 or F3 has 1287 shields and 950 hull which means a full slug will leave it with 135 shields and 502 hull remaining.

 

A distortion field novadive/blackbolt in F1 or F3 has 1053 shields and 950 hull which means a full slug will leave it with 1 shield and 502 hull remaining.

 

 

 

This is significant for a few reasons:

 

1. After being hit with a 1600 slug, the enemy ship can barrel roll away, recharge shields, and come back (without being repaired) and still survive another full slug.

 

2. The 1760 shot completely cripples a novadive/blackbolt in terms of hull damage. With the 1600 shot, the shields are not completely destroyed which means the novadive/blackbolt isn't really much worse off than the flashfire/sting.

Edited May 13, 2016 by RickDagles