Is the F2P/Preffered system too prohibitive, and if so, what should change?

[LordArtemis]

I like the idea of "pay as you go" based on CM purchases, you compile sub time. But I still prefer the 3rd tier "Veteran" idea.

[DOHboy]

I kind of dig this idea. Each time you buy $5 worth of cartel coins, you get to play for a week like you had a subscription. Works out to $20 revenue/month for the equivalent of a subscription, do that enough and you'll convince yourself to just subscribe.

 

Or maybe it's $8 worth of coins gets you a week or $10 or whatever. Point is, at that point they represent revenue, cool, give them a taste of the benefits of a subscription.

 

what would those who subscribe and spend $$$ on CM get? free subscription time? They already give us free stuff and free CC for the subscription, why should those who dont subscribe get free stuff?

Edited May 30, 2014 by DOHboy

[DarthTHC]

what would those who subscribe and spend $$$ on CM get? free subscription time? They already give us free stuff and free CC for the subscription, why should those who dont subscribe get free stuff?

 

Revenue is revenue. This would also allow the subscribers who like to spend money on cartel coins do that and still effectively keep their subscription.

 

I dislike perpetual F2P and even Preferred because neither makes any commitment to pay for the entertainment value they receive. They don't support the game. They're leeches. Parasites.

 

But if all of a sudden they want to pay money regularly, and with the values I laid out it would be more than a subscription, let them have subscriber benefits. I have no problem with that. Again, because now they've committed to paying for the entertainment value they receive and are supporting the game financially.

 

I don't get into "he has / doesn't have". You can kill yourself with that because life is never fair or equitable. Choices / options are good though.

 

Whatever encourages people to financially reward the developers for their hard work, so the EA suits will keep paying for the developers to deliver more and better, is a good thing.

[Khevar]

I don't get into "he has / doesn't have". You can kill yourself with that because life is never fair or equitable. Choices / options are good though.

 

Whatever encourages people to financially reward the developers for their hard work, so the EA suits will keep paying for the developers to deliver more and better, is a good thing.

Well said.

[NeroTethras]

I myself started as a F2P, but I subscribed by like the second planet. I personally don't believe the system is to restrictive as it's a high budget game with (In my opinion at least) excellent quality. I can't even justify giving away a low budget game with poor quality.

 

If you like the game and you plan on playing it for long periods of time, at the very least you can sub/make purchases to support it. I realize some people can't afford it though. What I don't understand is the fact that people think that since Bioware has made the game F2P that they should be entitled to more.

 

I also hate when people try to make the argument "Well, other games offer XXX for free. Why doesn't this one". Obviously because it's a different game by a different developer. If you like that feature or ability so much then why not go play that game? Most likely because this game offers something different/something you enjoy enough to stay.

 

Not trying to make any F2Pers feel inferior or anything, it's just my opinion.

[DigitalWar]

its $15.00 a month. U cant find entertainment like this anywhere else for the price. try going to the movies with a date and buying a soda and a snack there for 15.00 for 2 hours. it cant be done unless u got a dollar theatre and even then it will be 15.00 for the drink and snacks too, not to mention u still only get 2 hours out of it.

[Khevar]

its $15.00 a month. U cant find entertainment like this anywhere else for the price. try going to the movies with a date and buying a soda and a snack there for 15.00 for 2 hours. it cant be done unless u got a dollar theatre and even then it will be 15.00 for the drink and snacks too, not to mention u still only get 2 hours out of it.

Going to the movies with a date > SW:TOR > Going to the movies by myself

 

Just sayin'

Edited May 30, 2014 by Khevar

[AbsolutGrndZero]

There are free games that I play that offer nothing in terms of incentive to purchase things from their cash market, I am more than willing to play the game for free and continue playing it. If they actually offered things worth spending money on, I would gladly pay money.

 

I subscribe to TOR AND find plenty of items in game worth spending money on. I probably pay 2 or 3 subscriptions worth a month for this game, yet play my other game 100% free. Time invested is probably about a 75/25 split between TOR and POE.

 

There needs to be incentives to pay one way or another, otherwise they are leaving money on the table and shorting themselves of potential customers.

 

Exactly, while I have bought a few characters in the Marvel Allaince or whatever it's called Facebook game before I quit playing it (I just had to have Mockingbird and Psylocke) other than those two, I don't pay a dime. There is really no reason to because you can earn everything just by playing. League of Legends? Same thing (haven't paid any real money for any characters yet)... a subscription is a guaranteed $15 a month. Plus, I honestly don't think the free players are going to be spending $500 a month on the cartel market but are not doing so because they are subscribing instead. That kind of logic just makes me laugh.

[-Marauder-]

The 350k credit cap. The problem here is that they're actually hurting themselves. F2P and Prefered buy unlocks and other stuff from the GTN, which in turn is bought with real money by people who are subscribers and want some extra credits.

 

So basically they're only "harming" sales in a way, since if people could actually buy these things for a proper price, more people who want credits would buy them from the cartel market and sell them.

 

Even now F2P and Prefered actually generate income that way, also by actually "putting people" for the subscribers to play with into the game.

[LordArtemis]

I do agree that some of the prices they have listed in the market are a bit high....I have made posts based on this in the past. Unfortunately they seem to feel the prices are fine....at least based on inaction.

[BrintoSFJ]

Removing the credit cap of f2p/preferred will practically kill goldselling. So what am i basing it on? I have observed that in Rift, there is absolutely no profit in selling platinum(credit in that game) in Rift; why is that? All the f2p in Rift spend all of their money in Auction House trying to buy Cash shop items(mostly cash shop items, some very nice mounts in there, then there is REX), end game gears, mid level gears etc. So basically f2p are adding the platinum they earn while playing the game into the game economy, there is no shortage of platinum in game economy thus there is no need for people to do shady business with goldsellers. But here, due to the credit cap restrictions f2p/preferred are far away from in game economy, of course there are those escrow removal but 50k and 100K removal are waste and 600K is most of the time overpriced. Removing credit cap and disabling credit trade through mail and direct trade for both f2p and preferred would help the in game economy and improve gameplay experience for all players. But we all know that will never happen.

[Atlantida]

It's not really free to play. It's demo mode that's titled "F2Play" to entice people to try it out and potentially subscribe, or spend RL money to get more access, if they like the game enough. It's intentionally misleading. Free to play implies unrestricted/full game access for all, which is obviously not the case with SWTOR. That's what most people don't seem to get. The only solution, I believe, is to simply call it "SWTOR demo".

[Volthorne]

Exactly, while I have bought a few characters in the Marvel Allaince or whatever it's called Facebook game before I quit playing it (I just had to have Mockingbird and Psylocke) other than those two, I don't pay a dime. There is really no reason to because you can earn everything just by playing. League of Legends? Same thing (haven't paid any real money for any characters yet)... a subscription is a guaranteed $15 a month. Plus, I honestly don't think the free players are going to be spending $500 a month on the cartel market but are not doing so because they are subscribing instead. That kind of logic just makes me laugh.

Here's a comparison:

I've spent roughly $240 on MechWarrior: Online just for limited-time packages (the foremost item of which is "Hero" version of 'Mechs that earn slightly more soft-cash and have a fancy paint job and have zero difference to the non-hero version), because A) I love the franchise, B) it's a different paint scheme(s) that literally no one else can get anymore, and C) I can play the entire rest of the game for free, so why not drop a few (hundred) dollars in the developer's laps? I'll probably buy a few more when they're available and I like the contents (I skipped the most recent one because I just wasn't interested in what it offered).

 

I've spent $30 on SWtoR because EAWare is garbage at doing F2P correctly (or as the post above this one points out, "SWtoR demo mode"). They got my $30 for features that should be unlocked from level 1. They're getting nothing else. I probably would have been willing to spend a little more, but the pricing and pay-walling killed that notion.

[DarthTHC]

Here's a comparison:

I've spent roughly $240 on MechWarrior: Online just for limited-time packages (the foremost item of which is "Hero" version of 'Mechs that earn slightly more soft-cash and have a fancy paint job and have zero difference to the non-hero version), because A) I love the franchise, B) it's a different paint scheme(s) that literally no one else can get anymore, and C) I can play the entire rest of the game for free, so why not drop a few (hundred) dollars in the developer's laps? I'll probably buy a few more when they're available and I like the contents (I skipped the most recent one because I just wasn't interested in what it offered).

 

I've spent $30 on SWtoR because EAWare is garbage at doing F2P correctly (or as the post above this one points out, "SWtoR demo mode"). They got my $30 for features that should be unlocked from level 1. They're getting nothing else. I probably would have been willing to spend a little more, but the pricing and pay-walling killed that notion.

 

I'm confused. Are you unhappy with the value you're receiving as a subscriber? If so, what do you think BioWare needs to do to provide the level of value you would desire as a subscriber?

[AbsolutGrndZero]

It's not really free to play. It's demo mode that's titled "F2Play" to entice people to try it out and potentially subscribe, or spend RL money to get more access, if they like the game enough. It's intentionally misleading. Free to play implies unrestricted/full game access for all, which is obviously not the case with SWTOR. That's what most people don't seem to get. The only solution, I believe, is to simply call it "SWTOR demo".

 

Yes, being able to play the entire level 1-50 story plus all flashpoints and group quests while doing so... that is what the game was originally intended to be and what it was at launch... gosh, yep that's a demo all right.

 

So, then is the new Soulcalibur: Lost Swords not free to play then? Bandai CLAIMS It is... but there is some equipment that you can only get from the "Premium Treasure Chests" that cost $1.99. So, is that a demo too?

[Volthorne]

I'm confused. Are you unhappy with the value you're receiving as a subscriber? If so, what do you think BioWare needs to do to provide the level of value you would desire as a subscriber?

 

I'm sorry that you're confused. It's really very straight forwards: I spent more money on a game that is entirely free because I enjoyed it much more than the game where I had to pay for basic features. In SWtoR terms, that $240 spent on the entirely free game would translate to roughly 16 months-worth of subscription time.

 

On the contrary, I think subscribers get too much value for what they pay. I would be completely okay if subscribers were simply exp- and credit-boosted Preferred/ freeps and had to pay for literally everything else, same as Preferred/freeps. Artifact access? Pay for it. Expansions? Pay for it. Increased credit cap via escrow (Subs would get 500k cap)? Pay for it.

[-Marauder-]

I'm sorry that you're confused. It's really very straight forwards: I spent more money on a game that is entirely free because I enjoyed it much more than the game where I had to pay for basic features. In SWtoR terms, that $240 spent on the entirely free game would translate to roughly 16 months-worth of subscription time.

 

On the contrary, I think subscribers get too much value for what they pay. I would be completely okay if subscribers were simply exp- and credit-boosted Preferred/ freeps and had to pay for literally everything else, same as Preferred/freeps. Artifact access? Pay for it. Expansions? Pay for it. Increased credit cap via escrow (Subs would get 500k cap)? Pay for it.

 

Go away please, just go away. I'll never understand why some people apparently enjoy the paying part of games most, not the actual game but throwing money at it for no good reason.

[DarthTHC]

I'm sorry that you're confused. It's really very straight forwards: I spent more money on a game that is entirely free because I enjoyed it much more than the game where I had to pay for basic features. In SWtoR terms, that $240 spent on the entirely free game would translate to roughly 16 months-worth of subscription time.

 

On the contrary, I think subscribers get too much value for what they pay. I would be completely okay if subscribers were simply exp- and credit-boosted Preferred/ freeps and had to pay for literally everything else, same as Preferred/freeps. Artifact access? Pay for it. Expansions? Pay for it. Increased credit cap via escrow (Subs would get 500k cap)? Pay for it.

 

Let me rephrase my question.

 

You were F2P. Now you're a subscriber. But you seemed to say in the previous post that you intend to cancel your subscription.

 

Why are you cancelling your subscription? Do you intend to stop playing the game altogether? Or do you intend to play as preferred?

 

If the former, the game clearly lacks entertainment value for you and I was curious what more they need.

 

If the latter, then Preferred is already too "open", too subscription-like, because subscribers like you seem to have no problem going back to it and therefore, on an ongoing basis, contributing less (possibly all the way down to nothing) to the ongoing success and growth of the game.

Edited June 1, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Kalfear]

I'm sorry that you're confused. It's really very straight forwards: I spent more money on a game that is entirely free because I enjoyed it much more than the game where I had to pay for basic features. In SWtoR terms, that $240 spent on the entirely free game would translate to roughly 16 months-worth of subscription time.

 

On the contrary, I think subscribers get too much value for what they pay. I would be completely okay if subscribers were simply exp- and credit-boosted Preferred/ freeps and had to pay for literally everything else, same as Preferred/freeps. Artifact access? Pay for it. Expansions? Pay for it. Increased credit cap via escrow (Subs would get 500k cap)? Pay for it.

 

I rarely accuse someone of this but your entire post is very trolly

 

I dont for a second believe you spent $240.00 on Mechwarrior Online and think every whine post you make demanding more freebies for F2P in TOR is so you can go F2P and never support TOR in any financial manner again.

 

Your demands are EXACTLY why I look negatively at F2P crowd.

[Volthorne]

Let me rephrase my question.

 

You were F2P. Now you're a subscriber. But you seemed to say in the previous post that you intend to cancel your subscription.

Intend to cancel? I bought the two-month, non-renewing subscription. Huge difference. That difference being, I could earn enough CC to nuke the restrictions that made me absolutely steaming mad once it does end.

 

Do you intend to stop playing the game altogether? Or do you intend to play as preferred?

Preferred, obviously.

 

If the former, the game clearly lacks entertainment value for you and I was curious what more they need.

If it was the former, it would be because of the absolutely ludicrous things EAWare thinks they can get away with in SWtoR, not because it lacks entertainment value.

 

If the latter, then Preferred is already too "open", too subscription-like, because subscribers like you seem to have no problem going back to it and therefore, on an ongoing basis, contributing less (possibly all the way down to nothing) to the ongoing success and growth of the game.[/color][/font]

I have a saying. It goes "Before I spend anything on a game, it has to prove it has earned my money.", but obviously I made an exception in this case. Now, I did say I probably would have bought some things via micro-transactions (Hah! Yeah right. More like macro-transactions) every now and then, but it's just not worth it unless you're a subscriber. Or, you know, spend upwards of $60 buying all the unlocks and constant escrow transfers.

[LordArtemis]

I rarely accuse someone of this but your entire post is very trolly

 

I dont for a second believe you spent $240.00 on Mechwarrior Online and think every whine post you make demanding more freebies for F2P in TOR is so you can go F2P and never support TOR in any financial manner again.

 

Your demands are EXACTLY why I look negatively at F2P crowd.

 

One or two bad eggs does not mean we should kill all chickens.......

 

The person I think you should dislike is me. I walked away from the game, and while I was gone I didn't spend a dime. Not one penny. After what I considered a disappointing design with respect to GS I decided the game did not deserve my money.

 

Nor my time. So I didn't even play the draconian F2P, instead I spent my time playing games where they demonstrate they appreciate players IMO.

 

My opinion only. The great thing about that is that I have every right to decide what to play and what not to play, for whatever reasons I see fit....

 

Now, housing brought me back.

 

Understand...I don't feel that F2P is anywhere near as bad as it used to be, but it is still draconian in a few ways IMO. Therefore if I cancel my sub it is because I have decided not to play. I will not play after cancelling my sub, and I certainly will not give them one dime of my cash when I decide to leave.

 

So I am probably the kind of person that should earn your derision.....because I am DEFINITELY not supporting the game when I unsub. At least F2P players quite often pay something...I pay NOTHING.

Edited June 1, 2014 by LordArtemis

[DarthTHC]

One or two bad eggs does not mean we should kill all chickens.......

 

The person I think you should dislike is me. I walked away from the game, and while I was gone I didn't spend a dime. Not one penny. After what I considered a disappointing design with respect to GS I decided the game did not deserve my money.

 

Nor my time. So I didn't even play the draconian F2P, instead I spent my time playing games where they demonstrate they appreciate players IMO.

 

My opinion only. The great thing about that is that I have every right to decide what to play and what not to play, for whatever reasons I see fit....

 

Now, housing brought me back.

 

Understand...I don't feel that F2P is anywhere near as bad as it used to be, but it is still draconian in a few ways IMO. Therefore if I cancel my sub it is because I have decided not to play. I will not play after cancelling my sub, and I certainly will not give them one dime of my cash when I decide to leave.

 

So I am probably the kind of person that should earn your derision.....because I am DEFINITELY not supporting the game when I unsub. At least F2P players quite often pay something...I pay NOTHING.

 

Quite the opposite for me. You're exactly the sort of person I like to see play the game.

 

If and when the game provides entertainment value to you, you reciprocate by paying to play it.

 

When the game no longer provides entertainment value for you, you neither play it nor pay to, as you shouldn't. You're probably also pretty articulate and clear about the value that is lacking, so I'm guessing you provide reasonable, actionable feedback to the developers on your way out.

 

Sounds just about right.

 

It's the ones for whom the game does provide entertainment value but who choose not to offer any value in return whatsoever that frost my petunias.

[Jeweledleah]

Quite the opposite for me. You're exactly the sort of person I like to see play the game.

 

If and when the game provides entertainment value to you, you reciprocate by paying to play it.

 

When the game no longer provides entertainment value for you, you neither play it nor pay to, as you shouldn't. You're probably also pretty articulate and clear about the value that is lacking, so I'm guessing you provide reasonable, actionable feedback to the developers on your way out.

 

Sounds just about right.

 

It's the ones for whom the game does provide entertainment value but who choose not to offer any value in return whatsoever that frost my petunias.

 

so basically, the person that frosts your petunias is someone like me and my friend.

 

I do subscribe when I can, but its not always possible. but that doesn't mean I stopped enjoying the game, it just means that my priorities, financially temporarily changed.

 

my friend, cannot afford subscription at all. they are playing as preferred with unlocks I purchased for them with in game credits. when I go preferred, my unlocks, all of them are also purchased with credits.

I suspect that the fact that someone else purchased those unlocks with real money, or that the transaction between them and me was mutually beneficial, or even the fact that I did contribute monetarily to the game for quite some time? doesn't matter the moment when I chose to no longer pay subscription yet continue to play the game.

 

do I think that f2p system is a bit too restrictive. in a sense - yes. I think more things should exist as unlocks that are sold for real money and then can be traded for in game credits. including blocks of subscription time (to bring up example of EVE - sell them for $20 instead of $15 regular subscription costs, allow people to sell them on GTN - curb gold sellers and allow more people to enjoy the game unrestricted )

Edited June 2, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[LordArtemis]

Quite the opposite for me. You're exactly the sort of person I like to see play the game.

 

If and when the game provides entertainment value to you, you reciprocate by paying to play it.

 

When the game no longer provides entertainment value for you, you neither play it nor pay to, as you shouldn't. You're probably also pretty articulate and clear about the value that is lacking, so I'm guessing you provide reasonable, actionable feedback to the developers on your way out.

 

Sounds just about right.

 

It's the ones for whom the game does provide entertainment value but who choose not to offer any value in return whatsoever that frost my petunias.

 

I can understand that. That kind of player would certainly likely infuriate quite a few folks. I don't particularly care for "space takers" myself.

 

I would, however, point out that it has been my experience that folks tend to paint "F2P bum" with a rather WIDE brush. I tend to think that the vast majority of players in the game, free or not, are not "freeloaders"....they "work" for what they have, and do so with a smile.

 

In this game one could say, based on feedback from the devs, that subs contribute more to the bottom line than F2P players do, considering the point that the majority of purchases were made by subs at one point....but that could be an indicator that the game's F2P system is so draconian it forces folks that would normally spend more to sub, and those that would drain a game stay F2P.

 

Perhaps if F2P fell more in line with the industry standard it would attract a better group of players, and they would open up their wallets as they seem to do with other hybrid games in the market.

 

I think that once a "Freep" subs, he or she eventually tapers off on spending, something that would not happen if he or she remained a F2P player IMO.

 

I wait to see what housing offers.....here's to hope it will be better for the game overall than GS was in my eyes.

[Alphasgimaone]

On the contrary, I think subscribers get too much value for what they pay. I would be completely okay if subscribers were simply exp- and credit-boosted Preferred/ freeps and had to pay for literally everything else, same as Preferred/freeps. Artifact access? Pay for it. Expansions? Pay for it. Increased credit cap via escrow (Subs would get 500k cap)? Pay for it.

This is like saying someone who rents should have to pay for the stucco repair.