Faction Imbalance

[Salakast]

I've noticed that q pops for the Imp side on my server are getting longer and longer, 30 mins + now is not unusual. I think the reason for this is that the Pubs have been on top for such a long time that a really lopsided factional imbalance has developed. Guys playing on the Pub side get a mix of competitive Pub v Pub matches and stat-padding Pub v Imps slaughterfests. This encourages new pub players to stick around and improve, cause they get into games where they can contribute.

 

On the other side, where imps usually get three capped, lose Deathmatches 50-3 etc. I see chat filled with an endless litany of p-off new players who won't q again. This means that when an Imp q does pop it's filled with fresh-faced 2-shippers, an inevitable massacre, and more players deciding they don't like the game.

 

Maybe if BW's metrics show this situation developing, it would be worth getting rid of faction v faction considerations altogether? I don't think that this would be as 'immersion-breaking' as it would be in the ground game, and would provide a larger player pool for whatever matchmaking tool is at work to try to put together more competitive matches where new players would at least have some equally new guys on the other teams and some equally experienced fellas to help them out, they wouldn't be farmed quite so hard initially are would be more likely to stick around.

 

Thoughts:rak_02:

[General_Brass]

As Pot5 went so goes the game.

 

What you are seeing are design flaws in the game that gradually becoming dominant.

1. Maps that favor the republic looking at you mesas and lost shipyards domination,

2. Allowing groups to Queue against teams of solo players

3. Non existent in game team tools that mean groups on teamspeak have an even greater advantage than just grouping good pilots in upgraded ships together.

4, Callsigns visible to the enemy, allowing a side with surplus pilots or better communication to shut down their opposition.

 

The game is stilted towards insuring dominant sides point 1 gives it a small push towards the republic.

 

Getting rid of faction vs faction is not a bad idea, it should also be accompanied by getting rid of queue as group.

Edited May 8, 2014 by General_Brass

[Sidenti]

Sounds like y'all need to get off your tails and help restore competitive balance on your server.

[General_Brass]

Sounds like y'all need to get off your tails and help restore competitive balance on your server.

 

Sounds like bioware needs to think more than one move ahead. Personally I am looking forward to the dogfighting module, it already has more game modes than GSF.

[Sidenti]

Sounds like bioware needs to think more than one move ahead. Personally I am looking forward to the dogfighting module, it already has more game modes than GSF.

 

Anything but accept personal responsibility. See, this is why I invest heavily in coal, oil and China. There's no reason to leave anything decent behind.

 

It's not like you'd feel any personal responsibility to care for it yourselves, right?

 

Look, you can man up and be the change you want to see on your server, or keep whining. Or do neither and go eat some pizza. I can't say I really care. But Bioware can't fix your problem.

 

Only you guys can solve this one. Solve for X or fail. Doesn't matter to me! -bp

[General_Brass]

Anything but accept personal responsibility. See, this is why I invest heavily in coal, oil and China. There's no reason to leave anything decent behind.

 

LOL One step ahead of you son, I am already past my expiration date and thanks for your contribution to social security, I am sure you will get it back with interest.

 

It's not like you'd feel any personal responsibility to care for it yourselves, right?

 

Do I feel a responsibility to make BIoware's game work for them ? No can't say I do. Might as well ask me if I feel a personal responsibility to fix Intel's products, or IBM's for them.

 

Look, you can man up and be the change you want to see on your server, or keep whining. Or do neither and go eat some pizza. I can't say I really care. But Bioware can't fix your problem.

 

LOL it's not my problem, it's their game's problem. I fixed my problem by changing servers and next changing games.

 

Nice Try though at making this personal and about the people who call attention to the all too obvious problems. I give you an E for effort. It's still a failing grade but you tried.

[Verain]

As Pot5 went so goes the game.

 

P. sure that's just how Pot5 went

[Salakast]

Sounds like y'all need to get off your tails and help restore competitive balance on your server.

 

I'm confused, what is it that you suggest be done? Is it to espouse the cause of imp gsf and try to talk new players into playing dozens of games where they get hammered and have no fun until they get enough experience and components to compete? 'Cause I already have a job ta.

 

And I have no personal responsibility to improve gsf faction balance on my server, hell I can always go play on a Rep Alt if I want, have fun in the Rep v Rep battles and pad my kill stats in the Imp massacres. That doesn't help half the new players to have a positive enough experience to keep playing. I'd only suggest that it might be in BW's own interest to improve the game experience of a section of their customer base.

[General_Brass]

P. sure that's just how Pot5 went

 

Yeah that's exactly the way Pot5 went. Bioware built a game that allowed a few *******es to spoil the game for everyone. Toss in a small starting population and you saw the path that other servers will follow just more slowly.

 

Last time I was on Pot5 they were having 30-45 minute waits for queue pops and that was during prime time. I doubt they are even that active more than 25% of the day.

[Sidenti]

LOL One step ahead of you son, I am already past my expiration date and thanks for your contribution to social security, I am sure you will get it back with interest. I always do! Returns tend to be slightly above average even in the worst of times. God bless the mentally inferior!

 

 

 

Do I feel a responsibility to make BIoware's game work for them ? No can't say I do. Might as well ask me if I feel a personal responsibility to fix Intel's products, or IBM's for them. Oh, rightrightright. I forgot. You can bîtch about it, but to hell with trying to actually be the change you want to see on your server. See, when I was growing up... oh, forget it. Lost on ya, I'm sure.

 

 

 

LOL it's not my problem, it's their game's problem. I fixed my problem by changing servers and next changing games. Nowhere near fast enough, buttercup. Please let the door smack you on the way out. It's a heavy door, you see, and I bet it'd be hilarious.

 

Nice Try though at making this personal and about the people who call attention to the all too obvious problems. I give you an E for effort. It's still a failing grade but you tried. The individual complaining rarely, if ever, feels responsible. No surprise here. Now... didn't you have a game to leave during a childish snitfit over issues you're likely causing yourself? I guess it doesn't matter. Hasta luego!

 

Oh, and Bioware needs to fix that "your message is too short" thing. THAT they need to do. YOU need to get off your lazy *** and be the change you want to see.

 

Or don't. Whatever. Pretty sure I don't have to put up with you either way.

[Sidenti]

I'm confused, what is it that you suggest be done? Is it to espouse the cause of imp gsf and try to talk new players into playing dozens of games where they get hammered and have no fun until they get enough experience and components to compete? 'Cause I already have a job ta. Well, for starters, you can strip those upgraded ships of yours down to stock. As competition improves, ramp up your ship's upgrades to match. You can also found/help run a GSF instructional guild. Shayd can tell you all about that. The man singlehandedly saved Impside GSF. (Well, maybe not SINGLEhandedly, but he certainly did the bulk of the work and HE has a job too. So... yeah. It can be done.)

 

And I have no personal responsibility to improve gsf faction balance on my server, hell I can always go play on a Rep Alt if I want, have fun in the Rep v Rep battles and pad my kill stats in the Imp massacres. That doesn't help half the new players to have a positive enough experience to keep playing. I'd only suggest that it might be in BW's own interest to improve the game experience of a section of their customer base. Then go do that and quit complaining. If you've no desire to help alleviate the situation and you don't care, why even bother responding?

 

Five characters.

[Salakast]

Then go do that and quit complaining. If you've no desire to help alleviate the situation and you don't care, why even bother responding?

 

Ermm, go back and check the first post. It wasn't complaining, it was pointing out that I see a lot of first timers getting really frustrated and not coming back. That is a PROBLEM. I then suggested getting rid of factions to achieve more even matching, which is a proposed SOLUTION. I'm still confused by your antipathy.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Salakast

[General_Brass]

 

Ermm, go back and check the first post. It wasn't complaining, it was pointing out that I see a lot of first timers getting really frustrated and not coming back. That is a PROBLEM. I then suggested getting rid of factions to achieve more even matching, which is a proposed SOLUTION. I'm still confused by your antipathy.

 

He realizes his actions aggravate the problem and any solution to the problem would deprive him of an advantage he enjoys. That's where the antipathy comes from.

[Sidenti]

Then go do that and quit complaining. If you've no desire to help alleviate the situation and you don't care, why even bother responding?

 

Ermm, go back and check the first post. It wasn't complaining, it was pointing out that I see a lot of first timers getting really frustrated and not coming back. That is a PROBLEM. I then suggested getting rid of factions to achieve more even matching, which is a proposed SOLUTION. I'm still confused by your antipathy.

 

I'm confused as to why your server's aces can't be more selective in their fire. I mean, that's a pretty f*&^ing simple solution. Don't seek and destroy on the newbies. It's not hard to tell who they are. Or is it? I mean, I can look at a given lineup and be pretty confident who is and isn't newmeat. And I'm an idiot.

 

Surely your server isn't full of Aces who are also dumber than an idiot. So why hasn't this particular idea occurred to you? It's FAR simpler than removing factions. It actually involves no work on the part of the company producing the game (letting them get on to more important matters - like, say, the rest of the content we're getting this year?), VERY little work on the part of the Aces causing the problem (you thought it was two-shippers blowing away two-shippers? HAH!), and DIRECTLY RESULTS IN A LARGER, STRONGER, MORE COMPETITIVE POOL ON BOTH SIDES.

 

This stuff isn't difficult, gang. Yeesh. -bp

 

(I'm aware some might not like the WAY I say things. That in no way changes the validity of WHAT is said. So, if the response is gonna be to ask me if I know how much like a jerkass I sound, lemme preemptively answer: Exactly like one.

 

Deal with it. Or don't. Like I said, it doesn't really matter in the end. We all die, games fold, life goes on. Enjoy it or don't.)

[Sidenti]

He realizes his actions aggravate the problem and any solution to the problem would deprive him of an advantage he enjoys. That's where the antipathy comes from.

 

I don't target newbies. I actively target known good pilots. But you'd know that if you ever flew with me.

 

Man. Assumption. There's an old urban saying about that, I hear.

 

So. Guys gonna man up and solve the problem you created? Or target more noobs? I don't really care - it'd just be nice to know in advance whether I'll end up respecting you or mocking you.

 

I'm good with either. -bp

[General_Brass]

I don't target newbies. I actively target known good pilots. But you'd know that if you ever flew with me.

 

Man. Assumption. There's an old urban saying about that, I hear.

 

So. Guys gonna man up and solve the problem you created? Or target more noobs? I don't really care - it'd just be nice to know in advance whether I'll end up respecting you or mocking you.

 

I'm good with either. -bp

 

ROFL you'll have to pardon my laughter but so far everyone I know directly who has said such things on the forums has been full of crap. It's right up there with the people who say we take unupgraded ships against new players or that they don't call out targets in teamspeak.

[Sidenti]

ROFL you'll have to pardon my laughter but so far everyone I know directly who has said such things on the forums has been full of crap. It's right up there with the people who say we take unupgraded ships against new players or that they don't call out targets in teamspeak.

 

What a coincidence! I actually DO take stock ships out against newmeat and I don't even USE Teamspeak. Or any voice chat.

 

You might be able to cram that foot a little bit further in your mouth if you try. Care to give it a go?

 

I mean, you certainly can't address the points raised, and I don't blame you. They're airtight. Something can be done about the issue right now.

 

But hey, we can do this too. I have popcorn. I have scotch. And I have a soft spot for unwitting strawmen. Do as you will. -bp

[General_Brass]

What a coincidence! I actually DO take stock ships out against newmeat and I don't even USE Teamspeak. Or any voice chat.

 

You might be able to cram that foot a little bit further in your mouth if you try. Care to give it a go?

 

I mean, you certainly can't address the points raised, and I don't blame you. They're airtight. Something can be done about the issue right now.

 

 

Sure you do, I am sure you can also find a few of your friends that don't do all those things with you to back you up.

 

 

But hey, we can do this too. I have popcorn. I have scotch. And I have a soft spot for unwitting strawmen. Do as you will. -bp

 

Stupid fat and drunk is no way to go through life son.

[SammyGStatus]

Ummmm for those of us who were raised as assassins without parents or the thought of compassion, it's definitely going to be difficult to let go of the "leave no one alive mentality". Then again, I think I'm speaking for a minority here :D

[Sidenti]

Sure you do, I am sure you can also find a few of your friends that don't do all those things with you to back you up. Friends? Probably not. They have lives. But several opponents can attest to this. (I know, I know. Reality intrudes on your thought process again. Sorry mang. It is what it is.)

 

 

 

 

Stupid fat and drunk is no way to go through life son. While I appreciate greatly your relaying of personal experience as a warning, I assure you it's not necessary. But thanks all the same. XD

 

FEAR THESE ADDITIONAL CHARACTERS, FOR THEY MAKE THE POST GO. Or something.

[Sidenti]

Ummmm for those of us who were raised as assassins without parents or the thought of compassion, it's definitely going to be difficult to let go of the "leave no one alive mentality". Then again, I think I'm speaking for a minority here :D

 

My father left me before I was born and my mother tossed me out at the age of 12. If I can dial back, you can too.

 

You ESPECIALLY. I've seen you fly. You're one of the few that can dial it back and STILL make it an appropriate challenge.

 

You're in that select group of people that can make or break GSF. I envy you for that, because I'm not. I don't have the piloting ability or the reflexes to make the impact you and that small elite group of pilots can make.

 

I need your help. I need you to recognize that you and yours have the greatest influence here. And I desperately need you to use that influence properly.

 

The Ebon Hawk is becoming a destination for GSF. You know this all too well. You came to us for the same reason.

 

Help us make it the best, most balanced, and most fun around. Please. -bp

[SammyGStatus]

My father left me before I was born and my mother tossed me out at the age of 12. If I can dial back, you can too.

 

You ESPECIALLY. I've seen you fly. You're one of the few that can dial it back and STILL make it an appropriate challenge.

 

You're in that select group of people that can make or break GSF. I envy you for that, because I'm not. I don't have the piloting ability or the reflexes to make the impact you and that small elite group of pilots can make.

 

I need your help. I need you to recognize that you and yours have the greatest influence here. And I desperately need you to use that influence properly.

 

The Ebon Hawk is becoming a destination for GSF. You know this all too well. You came to us for the same reason.

 

Help us make it the best, most balanced, and most fun around. Please. -bp

 

I hear you man! When I solo que, or even in a premade, if I see that we're against two shippers or just people that I don't consider to be worthy of my GS, I'll use my close-to-stock flashfire. This seems to be the simplest way to mitigate the vast disparity in ability. When this happens though, the other pilots are still going to get massacred which sucks cuz no one wants that (except for the sadists... naughty naughty).

 

The most difficult aspect of this from my perspective is that 1 player can't convince the either 7 or 11 others to follow (hence why when I tell people to go B and A on Denon, I still see at least 2-3 ships going C, when one scout to c will at least halt their cap and allow for the other two to be obtained). So in a TDM, I may pull back from the battle if I see we're spawn camping and chase power ups so I can still participate and do something entertaining (I've literally just zoom zoomed on another toon with a speed spec'd ff for a whole match and we still won like 50-13). Dominations don't require a 3 cap (and I think we get less req from a faster game anyways), so that one is just silly imho. I don't mind shooting the damn turrets and clearing the node on the third one, but I myself have never enjoyed that extra cap (though there are times where I have been a part of it, and it's moreso in a group because of the whole mob-mentality and my guild's internal stat comparisons). Quicker matches yes, but less req too. Catch 22.

 

Here's the counter argument to the aggressive style of play that's hurting the community:

 

Bioware made the game this way. You don't program the water show at the Billagio to spray people IN THE FACE unless that's something that you intended. Had it been something you didn't intend, you would've fixed it. BW is basically saying that by having 3 places to spawn, there is no reason why you should ever be spawn camped in a TDM, and that the matchmaking is fine because it's given an amount of games precedence over the quality of those matches. Spawn camping in domination doesn't happen directly on the cap ship because of capital ships' turrets, and I daresay that the turrets don't belong in TDM. That being said, it is very difficult to break a 3 cap as a bunch of newbs that can't even get outside of their cap ships turrets ranges. I tend to attempt to get people to pull out at this point, but BW can't really do much about that besides not allow good players to roflstomp bad ones

 

They aren't going to learn otherwise: I hate this, but personally I seldom learn to do the right thing until I've messed up a few times. By facing opposition who is better, you get better by learning what not to do. If a team is spawn camping and you continually spawn at that location, you need to learn how to select another spawn point. This goes back to BW designing these fixes but not explaining anything to new players

 

Change in this game, like in the real world, requires statistics: It's all fine and good if we as a community know there are glaring issues. We play this game (often for several hours a night) more than they do, and a designer may have certain intentions that don't actually make it to the game the same way it was intended, especially after exploiters have their way. Someone who I play with a bunch (shall remain nameless) constantly pushes regardless of the score. The argument is that BW isn't going to know there is a problem without viable metrics to back it up. If there are 20000000000000000 matches and only a handful are blowouts, then a change won't be made because the community had to enforce it's own restraints. When the amount of blowouts are radically increased, this is more likely to raise a flag to BW because they have metrics confirming that matchmaking is a farce. Just like you can't bring a drug to market without clinical trials first - you need to be able to support your claim using statistical evidence.

 

It's human nature to want to keep pushing and test our limits. Unfortunately, BW is the only one who can set those limits and prevent situations like these from occurring. If it's not broken, they wouldn't fix it. According to them, this is in a healthy state, so GSF is working as intended.

 

We have these talks a lot in guild. I don't think I'm going to be able to change much though, considering the BEST SCOUT EU and the BEST SCOUT NA are both in guild and monsters, but even in other ships they'll still wreck face. We need to help the new players out before they get into their real matches with the big boys. Make the tutorial mandatory. Expand upon the tutorial. Allow for 1v1 (or at least up to 4 people) to join the same tutorial to show new players what to do and how to best help them. THAT would go farther than us policing ourselves. Until then, I'm definitely playing my FF a lot more on TEH. I get to play my GS a bit more on The Harb

Edited May 10, 2014 by SammyGStatus

[Sidenti]

Good lord, take it to PMs if you can't behave like adults, kids. I know we're redheaded stepchild GSFers, but lets try to behave.

 

If I didn't turn it down for the cops, what makes you think you have a chance?!