General_Brass Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) 1. No mention of improved training. 2. No mention of improved matchmaking 3. No match balancing mechanisms 4. No improvement to how AFK is handled in matches 5. No improvements /additional mechanisms to organize sides, after Q pop Prior to match start. No improvement to chat system. 6. No change in damage overcharge What is in the patch notes ? Additional tools that will allow the better organized to extend the advantage that teamwork and organization brings. As much as I want to play with the new ships, I can't imagine that they will help the overall game. I Just see them as adding extra opportunity for vet players who queue as groups to beat the stuffings out of noobs. The scenarios that came to mind when reading the gunship description was, wow we can now have gunship clusters with a gunship that also has close in defense ? The more heavily armored bomber ? Great we now have a 4th turret for satellites that hits even harder and is even more difficult to remove. It will be even more difficult for new players in a match to feel they are anything more than just skeet being thrown out as targets. Edited May 2, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 5. No improvements /additional mechanisms to organize sides pre launch. /Kalphitis logs in /GSF [Kalphitis] Hey all, any groups out there? Anybody up for a group? /GSF [Random] Sorry, group is full /GSF [Kalphitis] anybody else? *crickets* /GSF [Kalphitis] bleh, k I'll just solo q again... *8v8 game commences, no queue pop for Kalphitis **15 minutes later** *New 8v8 game commences, same 4 man group joins, no queue pop for Kalphitis /Kalphitis logs out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) From Sun Tzu Sun Tzu “If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their oficers. Edited #5 to clarify the meaning. Edited May 2, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 As much as I want to play with the new ships, I can't imagine that they will help the overall game. I Just see them as adding extra opportunity for vet players who queue as groups to beat the stuffings out of noobs. Ummm I que as a group to prevent the constant focus that happens whenever I'm in a match on Aimbot.... and increasingly, Renegade-One. Noob bashing will occur with or without a premade. It's the decent support I'm looking for when I group que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 /Kalphitis logs in /GSF [Kalphitis] Hey all, any groups out there? Anybody up for a group? /GSF [Random] Sorry, group is full /GSF [Kalphitis] anybody else? *crickets* With the exception of the groups you know about, I think a lot of our pilots don't group queue when they should. I think you should try to friend people and whisper them directly. I think sitting in solo queues is only ok if you are really doing something else- either in game or out. I'll solo queue if I'm listening to podcasts, actually getting work done, or something, but otherwise I will try to group up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractalsponge Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Noob bashing will occur with or without a premade. It's the decent support I'm looking for when I group que. QFT. People need to stop getting into a twist about premades. It's a social game. People want to play with friends. The noob bashing by aces is not going to stop until there is a sufficient population to support the equivalent of a ranked queue. The sooner this happens, the better for everyone, but it probably won't happen without substantial integration of rewards with the ground game, or cross-server pools. Apart from a few egregious instances of try-hards that actively setting up compositions with the express intent of spawn camping newbie teams (*cough* bomber swarms *cough*), aces will crush newbies regardless of what ship they're using. I once restricted myself to primary weapons only on my Mangler against a bunch of 2- and 3- ship opponents and came out of the match with 40k damage and 15 kills, no deaths and barely any damage taken. It's just going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 /Kalphitis logs in /GSF [Kalphitis] Hey all, any groups out there? Anybody up for a group? /GSF [Random] Sorry, group is full /GSF [Kalphitis] anybody else? *crickets* /GSF [Kalphitis] bleh, k I'll just solo q again... *8v8 game commences, no queue pop for Kalphitis **15 minutes later** *New 8v8 game commences, same 4 man group joins, no queue pop for Kalphitis /Kalphitis logs out I'm the GM of Damage Overcharge on TEH (dunno if you play GSF there) but when we have multiple people on (say 5), we'll break up our 4 man and go 3 and 2 so everyone can get in. There are some who care about everyone getting a chance to play... It's also easier when you're in a GSF focused guild, but that's asking a bit too much of everyone considering they could be sacrificing raid groups to join... In those instances, I say friend friendly people who GAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 1. No mention of improved training. I wasn't expecting this. Obviously it would be great, but the dev time for that would be pretty sharp. There are solid youtube tutorials, and many guides here and on Dulfy. 2. No mention of improved matchmaking 3. No match balancing mechanisms They can't improve it much more. I've seen a couple dumb things. Like I'll be in a 4 man, and then the queue will pop WARGAME. Somehow it will put two more solid pilots on my side and leave the enemy team as nothing but two ship noobs. We fly req ships against them and try to be kind in /1, but it's still a drubbing. It's still not common to see this, though- mostly it is "who is on and wants to play". If I'm queued at the same time as other premades, it'll try to match us. But whenever people say this, they really mean "let the core players sit benched essentially forever because I want to eat the foodships, not them / I don't want to play better coordinated geared and skilled ships because I lose to them". "Match balancing" sounds like you want bolster or something. While they could thin the power of upgrade tiers by making ships more powerful baseline (and I think this would be wise), I think that's all that they should do. 4. No improvement to how AFK is handled in matches I would love to see this, especially when I get marked afk while being top kills top damage and kiting half the enemy team. 5. No improvements /additional mechanisms to organize sides, after Q pop Prior to match start. No improvement to chat system. Would love to see, but hard to develop and hasn't been discussed much. We use the same mediocre setup as the ground game, and at least one dev is on record as saying that a keyboard macro to type like "Incoming A" is cheating, when it's absolutely standard in most of the industry. I don't even try on this note- I think whatever mix of recalcitrance and philosophy results in that as a statement is profoundly ludicrous- all we'd be doing is namecalling the devs in any thread about that. But suggest some changes we might see, definitely! 6. No change in damage overcharge Good. I hope that they decided it was perfect. These are rare and fun, and I love having one. I also love blowing an enemy up who gets one. If any of these need a change, it's the shield one- it needs to block or reduce shield piercing while active and have a longer duration. It alone is the booby prize, and all should be fun! I think DO will need either a clarification as to what it does (aka, trip damage) or a change to the damage (aka, double damage). I'd prefer the first. What is in the patch notes ? Additional tools that will allow the better organized to extend the advantage that teamwork and organization brings. Food gonna get eaten. Adding depth to the game is good. I do think we should see some changes- such as armor pen being so hard to find in low-req ships, and upgrades being so powerful per talent. As much as I want to play with the new ships, I can't imagine that they will help the overall game. I Just see them as adding extra opportunity for vet players who queue as groups to beat the stuffings out of noobs. I don't see the meta in the future being more noob hostile than today. Can you back this up in any way? The scenarios that came to mind when reading the gunship description was, wow we can now have gunship clusters with a gunship that also has close in defense ? The more heavily armored bomber ? Great we now have a 4th turret for satellites that hits even harder and is even more difficult to remove. The T3 gunship may be overtuned. Maybe it ends up being the best. But why not think "this gunship gives up the mighty ion railgun in exchange for some close range weapons, but it still isn't a strike fighter". The bomber is less heavily armored AFAIK. While I agree we could see some new player help, neither of these ships is going to make the game even remotely more frustrating for a new player. Stealth ships sure might have, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 but it probably won't happen without substantial integration of rewards with the ground game, or cross-server pools. I agree. You either need to bribe the main playerbase to come over, or have a way to merge us. Even the merging won't be perfect, as it will actually encourage smurf accounts- foodships are foodships in a 0 req Rycer, and if you can opt out of playing against real pilots you might. The first part of that- bribing- would have to be done VERY carefully. The last thing I'd want is to hear someone say "I hate this dumb 3 space game but I have to play it to help my arenamates / raid guild". That would be bad news indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta_V Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I agree. You either need to bribe the main playerbase to come over, or have a way to merge us. Even the merging won't be perfect, as it will actually encourage smurf accounts- foodships are foodships in a 0 req Rycer, and if you can opt out of playing against real pilots you might. The first part of that- bribing- would have to be done VERY carefully. The last thing I'd want is to hear someone say "I hate this dumb 3 space game but I have to play it to help my arenamates / raid guild". That would be bad news indeed. The 2nd part is easy: just make it purely cosmetic rewards - unique armor, mounts, etc.. Just look at what the announcement of the Rancor mount did to Ranked queue times. Remember how popular the Stardrive Flash mount was when it came out? If that had instead been a reward for playing GSF, I bet that would have lured more than a few people into playing GSF. You're dealing w/ MMO players - if you offer them cool enough customization options, you can get them to do damned near anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Good point, I'd be 100% ok with cosmetic bribes. Many of those players will love the game once they get over the hump, after all- I just don't want them to be guilted into it. But a completionist should be all over GSF anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractalsponge Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Two words: Flying Mounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuciwalker Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 The T3 gunship may be overtuned. Maybe it ends up being the best. Oh come on, this is ridiculous. The T3 gunship, while a solid improvement on the T2, is nowhere close in value to the T1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyGStatus Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Two words: Flying Mounts I "float" in my flashfire mount The stealth FF mount looks cool AND it floats :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fractalsponge Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Oh come on, this is ridiculous. The T3 gunship, while a solid improvement on the T2, is nowhere close in value to the T1. Depends on your team. T1 has team utility down, no question. But if you're solo-ing, I suspect T3 is going to win by a big margin. I suspect - we'll have to see it live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalphitis Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think it would be worthwhile to explore mixed teams. In the absence of cross-server capabilities, this would maximize the potential for more fair matches and faster overall queues for everyone. Would it be weird to have imps/pubs on the same team? Perhaps, but I don't think many people would mind. We already have same-faction matches, so the argument of 'I don't want to kill my brothers' does not apply. Imp vs Pub will always be the first main goal, with mixed and/or same-faction occurring if the main goal isn't possible or practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Brass Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) People need to stop getting into a twist about premades. It's a social game. People want to play with friends. The noob bashing by aces is not going to stop until there is a sufficient population to support the equivalent of a ranked queue. The sooner this happens, the better for everyone, but it probably won't happen without substantial integration of rewards with the ground game, or cross-server pools. The way people stop getting into a twist about premades is they stop playing. If people "Like playing with their friends" so much they need to be willing to give up some in game advantage to compensate for their greater tactical advantage. If you look at the threads about GSF on Pot5 you can easily see how premades destroyed the GSF community there. I wasn't expecting this. Obviously it would be great, but the dev time for that would be pretty sharp. There are solid youtube tutorials, and many guides here and on Dulfy. I have no idea what the dev time on that would be, I doubt anyone but the devs do and if they are like most software engineers they probably don't either. They can't improve it much more. I've seen a couple dumb things. Like I'll be in a 4 man, and then the queue will pop WARGAME. Somehow it will put two more solid pilots on my side and leave the enemy team as nothing but two ship noobs. We fly req ships against them and try to be kind in /1, but it's still a drubbing. We fly req ships ? I don't doubt you speak for yourself, but overall that doesn't happen. Anyway, I see the situation you describe very frequently the matchmaker just decides to pile on one side. For the most part it doesn't even bother to matchmake. It's still not common to see this, though- mostly it is "who is on and wants to play". If I'm queued at the same time as other premades, it'll try to match us. But whenever people say this, they really mean "let the core players sit benched essentially forever because I want to eat the foodships, not them / I don't want to play better coordinated geared and skilled ships because I lose to them". I was talking about this very thing with a friend of mine last night. When he was growing up he used to play chess with his brother. His brother was a much better player and would always win. The upshot was he stopped playing chess. I asked him "Did you ever ask your brother to give up a piece to make the game interesting for both of you ?". He didn't get the concept, literally thought I was talking about sacrificing a piece during play. I would love to see this, especially when I get marked afk while being top kills top damage and kiting half the enemy team. Been there as well. Would love to see, but hard to develop and hasn't been discussed much. We use the same mediocre setup as the ground game, and at least one dev is on record as saying that a keyboard macro to type like "Incoming A" is cheating, when it's absolutely standard in most of the industry. I don't even try on this note- I think whatever mix of recalcitrance and philosophy results in that as a statement is profoundly ludicrous- all we'd be doing is namecalling the devs in any thread about that. Hmm wonder how they feel about people using voice chat. But suggest some changes we might see, definitely! Good. I hope that they decided it was perfect. These are rare and fun, and I love having one. I also love blowing an enemy up who gets one. If any of these need a change, it's the shield one- it needs to block or reduce shield piercing while active and have a longer duration. It alone is the booby prize, and all should be fun! People abusing OP features always love them. I don't see the meta in the future being more noob hostile than today. Can you back this up in any way? Well for your statement to be true, the new ships would have to bring nothing to the game that doesn't extend the advantage that geared veteran players already have. Does that seem correct to you ? Edited May 2, 2014 by General_Brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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