Ion Railgun change, EMP change

[Verain]

EDIT: I had initially missed part of the railgun snare change. The snare is going from 40% for 6 seconds to 55% for 12 seconds- I had missed this important detail.

 

 

For whatever reason, no one is talking about these rather large changes. I'm generally disappointed with the number of changes, but these two are certainly noteworthy!

 

First, the ion railgun tier 5- the 15k tier- is changing. The left talent, which is currently a 40% slow (I believe to all targets hit) is becoming a 55% slow (presumably to all, though I'm not positive) EDIT: and this talent is being extended from a 6 second snare on live to a 12 second one. This buff is likely because this talent is very very niche and almost never taken. The right talent, which is currently 6 seconds of 0 regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power, is being changed to 6 seconds of 55% less regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power.

 

Since everyone actually takes the right talent on live, this is definitely a nerf- your ability to drain an enemy will be greatly reduced with them regenerating almost 5 energy a second instead of the 0 you had before. In contrast, the snare utility will go up.

 

EDIT: The snare utility goes up by more than I predicted, because of the 12 second snare duration. Here's the change:

On live: "Railgun hits slow target by 40% for 6 seconds."

On PTR: "Railgun hits slow target's speed by 55% for 12 seconds."

 

 

I'm not sure how this will play out- ion is a pretty important part of the type 1 gunship, after all, and not a part that has been a big problem since the nerf to make the drain percentage wise. It gets rid of the "drained and helpless" effect mostly, however. This is the only semi-buff to strikes I see so far, as strikes are much more likely to be targeted with ion and to suffer for it.

 

The other part of the ion railgun, the T4 "Hits do Area Damage", whose effects make the railgun arc to enemies and drain 18 engine and weapon power, will instead only drain 10. That's a pretty sizable nerf to that utility.

 

 

The second change is to EMP, the system component on the type 1 scout (the EMP missile is unchanged, though for all we know they might be addressing the bug where it will usually deal damage less than 200 when it should be almost 400 by tooltip).

 

The EMP change is a straight up buff- the base range of the move is rising from 3000m to 4500m. This will REALLY help with clearing mines, the intended use of this move- no longer will you have to have a super narrow placement to actually blow up mines without being in the explosion range yourself. With 4500 to 5000 radius, you'll easily be able to clear out mines at a node. This is a huge buff to this system component, and we can all be very thankful for it.

 

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of other components need some tweaking, but I think the EMP field most of all needed this. This does make it mostly strictly better than Remote Slicing, by the way! Meanwhile, the ion railgun did not strike me as the most in need of adjustments.

 

 

 

Hopefully later patches will address other issues.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Verain

[tunewalker]

For whatever reason, no one is talking about these rather large changes. I'm generally disappointed with the number of changes, but these two are certainly noteworthy!

 

First, the ion railgun tier 5- the 15k tier- is changing. The left talent, which is currently a 40% slow (I believe to all targets hit) is becoming a 55% slow (presumably to all, though I'm not positive). This buff is likely because this talent is very very niche and almost never taken. The right talent, which is currently 6 seconds of 0 regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power, is being changed to 6 seconds of 55% less regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power.

 

Since everyone actually takes the right talent on live, this is definitely a nerf- your ability to drain an enemy will be greatly reduced with them regenerating almost 5 energy a second instead of the 0 you had before. In contrast, the snare utility will go up.

 

 

I'm not sure how this will play out- ion is a pretty important part of the type 1 gunship, after all, and not a part that has been a big problem since the nerf to make the drain percentage wise. It gets rid of the "drained and helpless" effect mostly, however. This is the only semi-buff to strikes I see so far, as strikes are much more likely to be targeted with ion and to suffer for it.

 

The other part of the ion railgun, the T4 "Hits do Area Damage", whose effects make the railgun arc to enemies and drain 18 engine and weapon power, will instead only drain 10. That's a pretty sizable nerf to that utility.

 

 

The second change is to EMP, the system component on the type 1 scout (the EMP missile is unchanged, though for all we know they might be addressing the bug where it will usually deal damage less than 200 when it should be almost 400 by tooltip).

 

The EMP change is a straight up buff- the base range of the move is rising from 3000m to 4500m. This will REALLY help with clearing mines, the intended use of this move- no longer will you have to have a super narrow placement to actually blow up mines without being in the explosion range yourself. With 4500 to 5000 radius, you'll easily be able to clear out mines at a node. This is a huge buff to this system component, and we can all be very thankful for it.

 

 

 

 

 

I think a lot of other components need some tweaking, but I think the EMP field most of all needed this. This does make it mostly strictly better than Remote Slicing, by the way! Meanwhile, the ion railgun did not strike me as the most in need of adjustments.

 

 

 

Hopefully later patches will address other issues.

 

I'll have to double check, but I am pretty sure the one on the right on the ion currently reads, "reduces energy regen by 50%" if it currently stops all, i think that might be a bug and they are just fixing said bug, I could be wrong though.

 

That being said, Ion is still going to be strong single target even with those changes it still takes out shields 1 shot and still drains enough energy to be useable. At least now its more on par with other ion weapons, still better by a fair degree, but closer.

[-Streven-]

Very nice changes for sure. It'll be fun testing out the new emp range.

[Verain]

I'll have to double check, but I am pretty sure the one on the right on the ion currently reads, "reduces energy regen by 50%"

 

Tune, are you high bro? I hit you with this all the time, up to and including yesterday and I have like several mastered ion railguns. You can trust me, or at LEAST go to Dulfy for like, a second.

 

if it currently stops all, i think that might be a bug and they are just fixing said bug, I could be wrong though.

 

You are wrong of course. It's currently 100% and intended, and this is an intended nerf down to 55% currently on the PTR.

 

That being said, Ion is still going to be strong single target even with those changes it still takes out shields 1 shot and still drains enough energy to be useable. At least now its more on par with other ion weapons, still better by a fair degree, but closer.

 

If other ion weapons are the goal, then the type 1 gunship will be worthless- they'd have to take away like all the energy stuff entirely and lose the aoe. Thankfully I doubt they will nerf it down to the very poor ion missile, the trashcan ion mine, or the generally poor ion cannon.

 

But I agree with your assessment- ion will still be well worth using single target, and clearly optimal aoe.

 

 

 

 

I think the ion change will have a bigger effect on the game than the EMP change, but I could be wrong- the fact that the EMP baseline will actually work against minefields is honestly a pretty big deal.

[Kuciwalker]

For whatever reason, no one is talking about these rather large changes. I'm generally disappointed with the number of changes, but these two are certainly noteworthy!

 

Maybe because they aren't actually noted in any patch notes that I can see.

 

First, the ion railgun tier 5- the 15k tier- is changing. The left talent, which is currently a 40% slow (I believe to all targets hit) is becoming a 55% slow (presumably to all, though I'm not positive). This buff is likely because this talent is very very niche and almost never taken. The right talent, which is currently 6 seconds of 0 regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power, is being changed to 6 seconds of 55% less regeneration of shields, weapon, and engine power.

 

Since everyone actually takes the right talent on live, this is definitely a nerf- your ability to drain an enemy will be greatly reduced with them regenerating almost 5 energy a second instead of the 0 you had before. In contrast, the snare utility will go up.

 

I approve of this change. While at some point the Quarrel should get some kind of compensating buff for the parade of nerfs (give us our damn barrel roll back plz), this change is something a lot of people have been legitimately suggesting for a while.

 

The other part of the ion railgun, the T4 "Hits do Area Damage", whose effects make the railgun arc to enemies and drain 18 engine and weapon power, will instead only drain 10. That's a pretty sizable nerf to that utility.

 

Meh. I've always been deeply skeptical of the utility of the AOE energy drain. I see the AOE as mostly valuable for stripping a LOT of shields at once, and for killing mines.

 

The second change is to EMP, the system component on the type 1 scout (the EMP missile is unchanged, though for all we know they might be addressing the bug where it will usually deal damage less than 200 when it should be almost 400 by tooltip).

 

The EMP change is a straight up buff- the base range of the move is rising from 3000m to 4500m. This will REALLY help with clearing mines, the intended use of this move- no longer will you have to have a super narrow placement to actually blow up mines without being in the explosion range yourself. With 4500 to 5000 radius, you'll easily be able to clear out mines at a node. This is a huge buff to this system component, and we can all be very thankful for it.

 

EXCELLENT.

[Kuciwalker]

By the way, I think the best route to compensating for the ion nerfs (aside from bring BR down to a 10s or 15s cooldown) is some sort of buff to plasma railgun. Really increase the armor and evasion debuffs, and also give it a talent like slug and ion have that increases base accuracy and reduces tracking penalty.

[tunewalker]

Tune, are you high bro? I hit you with this all the time, up to and including yesterday and I have like several mastered ion railguns. You can trust me, or at LEAST go to Dulfy for like, a second.

 

 

 

You are wrong of course. It's currently 100% and intended, and this is an intended nerf down to 55% currently on the PTR.

 

 

 

If other ion weapons are the goal, then the type 1 gunship will be worthless- they'd have to take away like all the energy stuff entirely and lose the aoe. Thankfully I doubt they will nerf it down to the very poor ion missile, the trashcan ion mine, or the generally poor ion cannon.

 

But I agree with your assessment- ion will still be well worth using single target, and clearly optimal aoe.

 

 

 

 

I think the ion change will have a bigger effect on the game than the EMP change, but I could be wrong- the fact that the EMP baseline will actually work against minefields is honestly a pretty big deal.

 

You sir, are correct. i am not high just dont pay much attention to gunships beyond OH hell... I am dead portion of them .

 

I wouldnt call it worthless if they brought it "in line" with Ion Missile and Ion cannon and Ion Mine..... ok I totally would because all three of these are pretty worthless as is, but that says something about the state of other Ion weapons right now its bad...... so is EMP Missile, oh so bad.

 

 

Emp Pulse..... so good now, breaks missile locks on you and allies and prevents locks for a time, locks people out of engine maneuver OR shield ability (MMMMM bomber cant use charged plating for a while ) disables mines, drones and locks a bomber out for a few seconds.... oh and drops accuracy of those hit. Man this thing is awesome.......

 

"Emp missile you are the cousin of this awesome ability what do you do?"..... oh...... thats..... nice i guess.......(instantly treated like the red headed step child with no soul)

[Delta_V]

By the way, I think the best route to compensating for the ion nerfs (aside from bring BR down to a 10s or 15s cooldown) is some sort of buff to plasma railgun. Really increase the armor and evasion debuffs, and also give it a talent like slug and ion have that increases base accuracy and reduces tracking penalty.

 

No, please no. Leave BR where it is, we don't need to go back to the days of BR-spamming across the map. Strikes and Gunships could both use a buff to their mobility (either base speed or boost endurance) and maneuverability to stand a better chance against Scouts, but make them work for their survivability instead of just "Derp, press 3 on CD, Derp".

 

BR spam was stupid because even if you had BR yourself, engagement windows between BR CDs were so short that it was hard to kill a target even if you could keep up with it, especially if your ship relied on missiles. Not to mention that it was virtually impossible to keep up w/ a target that had BR if you didn't have BR yourself. Considering *all* Gunships who knew what they were doing had BR, and how important countering Gunships was in the meta..... BR was pretty much required on every ship that could equip it (the only real exceptions were battle scouts who really wanted Retro Thrusters and took Booster Recharge to compensate).

 

Now, the other engine options for Gunships are desperately in need of a buff, but I'd rather not go back to the days of BR spam.

 

 

 

As for the Plasma Railgun buffs, sure. Plasma could really use *something* to make people want to use it instead of Slug, and why does Slug get all the cool stuff (armor ignore, shield piercing, burst damage) anyway? Making Plasma's debuffs more powerful might help with that.

[tunewalker]

Another thing people may not have noticed..... The EMP missile Tool tip now says it plain as day.... the 180 damage is intentional to all things except the main target. Everything in the blast radius only takes half damage.

 

 

the EMP missile being a useless piece of junk.... is intentional.

 

 

Ion missile now tells you it only drains 15 energy from both weapons and engines (before buffs after its 20 engine energy, meaning the final teir of Concussive missiles drains more energy then an Ion missile does.)

 

 

Also Read Thermites, debuff... it removes Armor for all targets shooting at them. If you hit some one with a Thermite quads act as if they have 100% armor peircing and 20% shield Pierce.

Edited May 2, 2014 by tunewalker

[Verain]

Maybe because they aren't actually noted in any patch notes that I can see.

 

Ah. Your eyes are thin sir. Look within!

 

Or at least at the datamined XML. Either one, really.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if the Quarrel needs buffs. Type 1 Strike is a top tier ship on live, and this nerf, while probably unneeded, shouldn't be a huge deal I don't think? I'm up in the air a bit. They could up the ion railgun damage a bit if they really wanted, as the damage is almost entirely shields, if they feel it needs a compensatory buff.

 

 

Plasma and Slug needing to be a better choice is probably at this point slug needing a 5%-ish nerf and plasma needing an 8%-ish buff- and those guys are pretty unrelated to ion, I think.

[TrinityLyre]

I'm not sure if the Quarrel needs buffs.

 

Gunshipe.

[tunewalker]

Ya you guys should also be happy for the much improved tool tips, as I noted.

 

Also Thermites are anti Armor..... if you want to take out a bomber with charged plating land a thermite and then blast it with ANYTHING. thermites reduce armor by 100% as well as give 20 % shield pierce to all weapons after it his. WIth full upgrades this lasts 18 seconds (almost as long as charged plating) so hit them with this and then blast away with quads or lights and LAWLS as charged plating does nothing cause them to die faster.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Ya you guys should also be happy for the much improved tool tips, as I noted.

 

Also Thermites are anti Armor..... if you want to take out a bomber with charged plating land a thermite and then blast it with ANYTHING. thermites reduce armor by 100% as well as give 20 % shield pierce to all weapons after it his. WIth full upgrades this lasts 18 seconds (almost as long as charged plating) so hit them with this and then blast away with quads or lights and LAWLS as charged plating does nothing cause them to die faster.

 

well I'm glad they're clarifying exactly what the thermite debuff does. I kinda suspected it was something like that as I've had great success with it on my T3 SF. Changes that make it so tooltips give you all the info instead of making you guess is always good.

 

As for the Ion Railgun change I think it's really good that they're doing away with the 100% regen halt, given it's ability to be fired far more often than ion missiles it made zero sense why the railgun had a 100% regen halt and the missile only got a 50% regen halt.

 

Now if only they would buff the EMP missile to be worthwhile.

[tunewalker]

well I'm glad they're clarifying exactly what the thermite debuff does. I kinda suspected it was something like that as I've had great success with it on my T3 SF. Changes that make it so tooltips give you all the info instead of making you guess is always good.

 

As for the Ion Railgun change I think it's really good that they're doing away with the 100% regen halt, given it's ability to be fired far more often than ion missiles it made zero sense why the railgun had a 100% regen halt and the missile only got a 50% regen halt.

 

Now if only they would buff the EMP missile to be worthwhile.

 

it might be if the explosion did as much as the missile, Right now tool tip says the half damage is intentional, but even then it just doesnt lock enough out or do enough debuffs even upgraded, instead the just focused on increasing the worst portions of it, damage and explosive radius. I also feel the Ion missiles drain is WAY to weak as a concussion missile actually drains more then the Ion as far as from engines go. I think Ion missile should drain baseline 30 energy, while its upgrade should be more like 40 (think lock down). thats just my thoughts though. As is it only drains 15 passive 20 upgraded.

Edited May 2, 2014 by tunewalker

[Kuciwalker]

Plasma and Slug needing to be a better choice is probably at this point slug needing a 5%-ish nerf and plasma needing an 8%-ish buff- and those guys are pretty unrelated to ion, I think.

 

Slug doesn't need a nerf. Plasma does need a buff.

[Verain]

The thermite change is probably a tooltip fix- it's almost assuredly what it does on live.

 

given it's ability to be fired far more often than ion missiles

 

Well then I guess we gotta nerf a lot of stuff given how little damage rapid fire lasers do, right?

 

The railgun will still be vastly superior to the missile, because railguns are intended to be vastly superior to missiles. Guess what? Slug is way better than concussion too!

[Verain]

Slug doesn't need a nerf. Plasma does need a buff.

 

Eh. I mean, I could buy that, but don't you think slug is a BIT overgenerous? I think the buff plasma needs is to accuracy? I do like that they gave it the extra field of fire though, it's broader than the other railguns.

[MCaliban]

Slug doesn't need a nerf. Plasma does need a buff.

 

Agreed.

[Kuciwalker]

Eh. I mean, I could buy that, but don't you think slug is a BIT overgenerous? I think the buff plasma needs is to accuracy? I do like that they gave it the extra field of fire though, it's broader than the other railguns.

 

No, I really don't. Sustained DPS of slug is really, really low. The only people who are really scared of slug are scouts; everyone else takes one hit, is moderately annoyed, and can immediately take action to prevent future hits.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[tunewalker]

The thermite change is probably a tooltip fix- it's almost assuredly what it does on live.

 

 

 

Well then I guess we gotta nerf a lot of stuff given how little damage rapid fire lasers do, right?

 

The railgun will still be vastly superior to the missile, because railguns are intended to be vastly superior to missiles. Guess what? Slug is way better than concussion too!

 

obviously, thats because missiles can be fired at the same time as laser, so that makes sense. Still think Ion missiles should do at least 30 energy base instead of 15 while Rail does 50, my opinion of course. As is now Concussion drains more energy fully upgraded then a fully upgraded ion which just says how laughable the Ion really is.

[Verain]

Oh, ion missiles need buffs for sure. But it's not "because railgun wah". It's because they need buffs!

[tunewalker]

Oh, ion missiles need buffs for sure. But it's not "because railgun wah". It's because they need buffs!

 

yep, 100% agree, dont care what ion raigun does. Ion missile doesnt do enough compared to other MISSILE options for it to be all that useful. Concussion full upgrade drains more engines and nearly slows nearly as much as a full upgraded Ion AND does damage regardless of shields or hull, whats my incentive to use ion?

 

Thermite gives my weapons armor peircing.

 

The only missile I would take it over right now is EMP, but thats says more about how bad EMP is then how good Ion is. I think all the "utility" missiles need..... more utility and less useless junk.

 

 

Edit: I wish these missiles werent bad, I really do, They are on my favorite ship and I would love to have more options when it comes to flying it. Try out different things for different situations, but until EMP and Ion get some serious rehalls its really hard to justify taking them over ANY other option. I love the idea, EMP being the only AE missile that shuts down some systems and debuffs sounds great, except it doenst shut down nearly enough, do enough damage in its AE portion OR anything else, so it just doesnt succeed at being anything its trying to be. The ion at least succeeds at being a shield downer but beyond that doesnt drain enough to be even mildly inconvenient most of the time. just my two cents but devs already know this.

 

 

Heck thinking about doing a post on all components I think are "weak"

Edited May 2, 2014 by tunewalker

[Gavin_Kelvar]

The thermite change is probably a tooltip fix- it's almost assuredly what it does on live.

 

 

 

Well then I guess we gotta nerf a lot of stuff given how little damage rapid fire lasers do, right?

 

The railgun will still be vastly superior to the missile, because railguns are intended to be vastly superior to missiles. Guess what? Slug is way better than concussion too!

 

that's not what I was getting at and I think you know that.

 

I was getting at the idea that with ion rails you can pretty much keep a person drained of energy indefinitely since a fully charged railgun shot would be ready before the halt to regen had worn off. Whereas with ion missiles even if they could shut down your regen entirely it would wear off before the missile reloaded and you'd have 4-5 seconds of regen (more if you factor in lock on time). It seems that the change is making things more consistent so far as that capability is concerned with ion weapons.

 

Obviously in terms of base damage a railgun will do more damage than a missile, but that doesn't mean extra perks like the regen halt also must always be better/more powerful than what's available for a weapon that serves a similar purpose.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Verain]

Railguns fire while boosting and shooting lasers now? MIRACLEZ!!!

 

They aren't at all similar. Missiles are a supplementary secondary weapon that is immune to evasion and doesn't cost resources. Railguns are a primary weapon that requires rooting yourself and charging to max from that root.

 

Stop. Comparing. Ion. Missile.

 

 

It has nothing in common with ion railgun. They aren't tuned the same. It's not just damage either! It's everything!

[SammyGStatus]

Definitely a little confused about the continuous nerfs to GSs, yet scouts BLCs haven't been adjusted at all... Nor their evasion. I'd have no issues if GS survivability was increased to compensate for our one saving grace (the ability to cripple) being nerfed. I always thought 6 seconds was too long, but I thought the eventual nerf would decrease the time to 3 seconds, not give a 55% regen rate still (booster overcharge can kind of mitigate this already). SF's could've used something to compensate

 

Considering I'm still going to miss scouts and fast strikes coming at me even though my reticle (sp?) is dead on, this is only going to make GSs even weaker. Giving the left side T5 of Ion for GS a buff is good, but it should also reduce evasion (or negate a % of evasion automatically). THAT would make it viable (or % turning rate, rate of fire, AND speed slow) b/c of how immobile a GS is when it fires vs the scouts that can still output crazy numbers, while moving, while retaining their 33%+ evasion.

 

Giving us back our BR ability would be the one way to ensure that we're not going to be constant fodder - when I'm getting focused, I'm ineffective, and given the normal state of my allies' abilities, destined to die quickly. The BR spam issue wouldn't be as big of a deal now b/c they made the boost usage increase dramatically. Since they're probably not going to change this, I think they definitely need to buff something for the GS in terms of mobility. Talks of decreasing slug % dmg is just silly at this point.

Edited May 2, 2014 by SammyGStatus