Is SWTOR Part of New "Legends"? Or New Canon?

[BadCaneH]

TOR is completely safe. Proof?

 

http://s27.postimg.org/6wfpknukj/clone_wars_tor.jpg

 

[LtGeneralGezlin]

TOR is completely safe. Proof?

 

http://s27.postimg.org/6wfpknukj/clone_wars_tor.jpg

 

 

and of course, the fact the Story Group helped BWA with GSF...

 

But, some people still want to complain and are still mad at Disney. (And cook up crazy conspiracy theories. or petitions.)

[Count_Mario]

It's not like a Disney-LucasFilm "EU Removal Squad" will break down your door wearing Stormtrooper armor and Micky ears with flame throwers to destroy all your EU books, comics and games.

 

They are already here...

[ericpeterson]

Out of like 3 pages, I have like 4 posts that actually pertain to the topic at hand. If I want to read long posts about why Legends is great or stupid, or N-Canon, or S-Canon or F-Canon, I have like 800 other threads to go to.

 

Thanks to who posted about GSF and the 2 options. Good hypothesis. Thoughtful, mature, and not full of weird assumptions. And right in line with what I'm thinking. Man, I want an announcement. I just want to know.

 

You know, last night I thought of something.

 

Dark Horse has SW comics coming out until July at least. Those are all Legends. So it isn't like this cut-off took place immediately. MAYBE "all new material after 4/25/14 is canon" really means "all new material worked on after 4/25/14 is canon."

 

The fact that Dark Horse has new Legends stuff coming out through 2014 does screw up my hypothesis about SWTOR a bit. The difference is, of course, that the story group is not credited on Dark Horse stuff, and they are on SWTOR. However, clearly new Legends stuff IS indeed coming out. For awhile. I'll be curious to see if more solicitations occur after July.

 

I work in the comic industry, and the way that distribution works is in a 90-120 day timeline. Basically your stuff gets solicited around 90 days in advance, to allow for retail orders. So that stuff in July would have been submitted around April.

 

Plus, we've known Dark Horse is wrapping up its Legends content for awhile, due to their contract expiring at the end of 2014. So really, they are different than SWTOR. SWTOR (as far as I can tell) isn't shutting down anytime soon. Whereas Dark Horse isn't publishing NEW series at all, they are finishing off their Legends series.

[DarthDymond]

Out of like 3 pages, I have like 4 posts that actually pertain to the topic at hand. If I want to read long posts about why Legends is great or stupid, or N-Canon, or S-Canon or F-Canon, I have like 800 other threads to go to.

 

Thanks to who posted about GSF and the 2 options. Good hypothesis. Thoughtful, mature, and not full of weird assumptions. And right in line with what I'm thinking. Man, I want an announcement. I just want to know.

 

You know, last night I thought of something.

 

Dark Horse has SW comics coming out until July at least. Those are all Legends. So it isn't like this cut-off took place immediately. MAYBE "all new material after 4/25/14 is canon" really means "all new material worked on after 4/25/14 is canon."

 

The fact that Dark Horse has new Legends stuff coming out through 2014 does screw up my hypothesis about SWTOR a bit. The difference is, of course, that the story group is not credited on Dark Horse stuff, and they are on SWTOR. However, clearly new Legends stuff IS indeed coming out. For awhile. I'll be curious to see if more solicitations occur after July.

 

I work in the comic industry, and the way that distribution works is in a 90-120 day timeline. Basically your stuff gets solicited around 90 days in advance, to allow for retail orders. So that stuff in July would have been submitted around April.

 

Plus, we've known Dark Horse is wrapping up its Legends content for awhile, due to their contract expiring at the end of 2014. So really, they are different than SWTOR. SWTOR (as far as I can tell) isn't shutting down anytime soon. Whereas Dark Horse isn't publishing NEW series at all, they are finishing off their Legends series.

I think that's basically correct, the new DH comics are kind of being "grandfathered in" for the cutoff - they are definitely new "Legends" content that will be released after the "going forward everything released will be Canon" announcement.

 

It's still something of an open question whether SWTOR will likewise be a "special case" or whether they are going to just say "screw it, it's so far removed from the movies there's no harm" and make it part of the Canon. I seriously doubt it will be Canon, and strongly believe it will be Legends, but there still has been no "official" word on the matter.

 

The GSF credit is coming up quite a bit, and maybe it has the significance that some people claim it does, but the Story Groups participation in GSF predated this whole new Legends system being set up. I'm really not convinced that work completed before there was even such a thing as the Legends/Canon dichotomy is proof-positive of where the game falls between them.

 

Up until the Story Group was formed, everything SWTOR did was getting approved by the Continuity Team at LucasArts (down to the pieces of armor they were allowed to add to the CM). As the Story Group was formed, it probably made sense to give them them the responsibility for that approval process, even as the details of what was going on with the EU as a whole was still being worked out.

[Slowpokeking]

If SWTOR is canon, then TotJ and KOTOR1&2 are as well because the story are so tightly connected.

[marcelo_sdk]

I doubt they'll not make it canon, it would be unreasonable to anger some fans by not doing it. They make a lot of money with TOR, which is growing exponetially since f2p was implemented, I'm not sure about the numbers, but counting non-subs, this game has certainly more that the 2 million it started with.

 

But Lucasarts did unreasonable things before, as so Disney.

[Girdeux]

Alot of people here are looking at this way to short shortsightedly. The ST may not contradict anything Pre-ANH EU but yous need to look at the bigger picture. Disney paid $4 billion for this franchise and you can bet money one day they will make a film or trilogy on the origins of the Sith whether that be 10 or 20 years from now. It sure as hell wont involve any red looking humanoids as that completely contradicts whats been shown on screen for the past 30 years and the vision of Lucas thats now running through Kennedy.

 

Either 3 things are going to happen with SWTOR and that is:

 

1. Nullified and wont be brought into the new canon.

2. Story is allowed to continue until the license has run its course then nullified

3. SWTOR will get special treatment and considered "canon" until Disney goes ahead with a Sith origins movie/trilogy.

 

Either way the lore surrounding this game will end up at the same place. Its just how long Disney will let it last.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Girdeux

[ericpeterson]

If SWTOR is canon, then TotJ and KOTOR1&2 are as well because the story are so tightly connected.

 

No. That's not how it works, based on the press from Friday. KOTOR 1 and 2 are definitely out. For sure. Absolutely.

 

But they've shown other circumstances where canon things link Legend things, without problems. Darth Bane, as I've said, is canon and referenced in TCW. And his books are Legends and not canon.

 

So that doesn't hold back SWTOR or decide things one way or the other.

[ericpeterson]

Alot of people here are looking at this way to short shortsightedly. The ST may not contradict anything Pre-ANH EU but yous need to look at the bigger picture. Disney paid $4 billion for this franchise and you can bet money one day they will make a film or trilogy on the origins of the Sith whether that be 10 or 20 years from now. It sure as hell wont involve any red looking humanoids as that completely contradicts whats been shown on screen for the past 30 years and the vision of Lucas thats now running through Kennedy.

 

Either 3 things are going to happen with SWTOR and that is:

 

1. Nullified and wont be brought into the new canon.

2. Story is allowed to continue until the license has run its course then nullified

3. SWTOR will get special treatment and considered "canon" until Disney goes ahead with a Sith origins movie/trilogy.

 

Either way the lore surrounding this game will end up at the same place. Its just how long Disney will let it last.

 

That's almost right, except the whole reason they are doing this transition is so that we do not retcon things anymore, or ever again after this big change. So if SWTOR is canon, then its canon. Red Sith included. So if SWTOR is canon and not Legends we may or may not get a movie someday, but that movie would follow the facts set in stone by SWTOR. IF it is canon. We still do not know yet.

 

I asked the Lucasfilm book license person if she knows the video game license person to see if I can message them directly. Maybe see if I can gather some rumors one way or the other.

 

I'm 50/50 on it, after a few days.

 

If I look at SWTOR without the other books and games from that era, then SWTOR actually seems a bit more in line with the story group's recent exploits with SW. Which makes sense. It was designed to take advantage of fans of TCW, which was out at the time. And it seems like a pretty TCW-styled world if that game is by itself. KOTOR 1, and some of the Kevin J Anderson TOTJ stuff are the things that always seemed a bit different design wise from the SW generated by Lucasfilm directly. SWTOR isn't too far from the mark.

 

It also always bothered me that 3500 years before Episode 1, the galaxy's technology is virtually the same. That seems like an odd design choice that wouldn't jive with Filoni and the rest of the story group. However, really, in a fantasy universe, its not that far fetched to imagine the Republic like an exaggerated society. The universe is sparse, planets are still being discovered and getting hyperspace lanes, and yet the society is still advanced and not ancient. 3500 years in a technologically advanced FANTASY universe isn't that strange to be not continually inventing new things or living in space cars and all that. It's doable. It could fit.

 

At the same time, no mention of red skinned Sith is interesting. It would be weird for SWTOR to be canon, and yet no mention of that ever.

 

I dunno.

 

But its those things that kind of make this being canon or legends important to me. Not just because I love the game. But because really, if it does turn out to be canon and part of the Story Groups grand plan, then we now have a lot of actual facts for how that story group pictures the universe 3500 years before Sidious. Whatever they decide, it paints a more descriptive picture one way or the other.

[DarthKartus]

I don't know about A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc., canon so I'll ask this in simpler terms. What if a new book is released now under this "new EU" that says, for instance, that Han and Leia never married? How do you reconcile that with the "old EU"? Has the "old EU" become Infinities?

[DarthDymond]

I don't know about A, B, C, D, E, F, G, etc., canon so I'll ask this in simpler terms. What if a new book is released now under this "new EU" that says, for instance, that Han and Leia never married? How do you reconcile that with the "old EU"? Has the "old EU" become Infinities?

This is exactly what they've given themselves the opportunity to do, if they want.

 

"Legends" continuity is consistent with other "Legends" works (so in that respect it's not really "Infinities") but all novels, movies, TV shows, comics and games coming out from this point forward (which are all going to be part of the "New Canon") are not in the same continuity as "Legends".

 

They may chose to incorporate elements they like from Legends into the new continuity (like, for example choosing to say that Han and Leia did get married) but now none of the media, including books, are required to follow any the old "Legends" stuff.

Edited April 29, 2014 by DarthDymond

[DarthKartus]

This is exactly what they've given themselves the opportunity to do, if they want.

 

"Legends" continuity is consistent with other "Legends" works (so in that respect it's not really "Infinities") but all novels, movies, TV shows, comics and games coming out from this point forward (which are all going to be part of the "New Canon") are not in the same continuity as "Legends".

 

They may chose to incorporate elements they like from Legends into the new continuity (like, for example choosing to say that Han and Leia did get married) but now none of the media, including books, are required to follow any the old "Legends" stuff.

 

Hmm...

 

Well, they'd better not kill Thrawn that's all I'm saying.

[QuinMantha]

Wait a second.

 

I'm not sure if I'm reading the official release correctly.

 

When they say "the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe"...do they mean everything from after 4 ABY...or from after 1983?

[Jedi_Slayer]

Wait a second.

 

I'm not sure if I'm reading the official release correctly.

 

When they say "the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe"...do they mean everything from after 4 ABY...or from after 1983?

 

I think you misread

 

Star Wars Episodes VII-IX will not tell the same story told in the post-Return of the Jedi Expanded Universe. While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe.

 

Basically they can change anything in the EU they want, and can take characters that exist but are not bound by it stories.

 

It's almost like as if all the previous EU was a fairy tale told to children 1000 years in the future. We know about these people, but these are stories based on what information we have gathered together after so much time has passed in a galaxy far far away a along time ago. So our stories may say that Han and Leia had 3 kids, but the truth may have been they had 2 one with a split personality. (which would be really dumb but best example i could think of as i was typing).

 

How they decide to work with SWTOR would seem to keep it inline with cannon for any future content, while deeming the early parts legends, or only main characters to be canon.

[marcelo_sdk]

Alot of people here are looking at this way to short shortsightedly. The ST may not contradict anything Pre-ANH EU but yous need to look at the bigger picture. Disney paid $4 billion for this franchise and you can bet money one day they will make a film or trilogy on the origins of the Sith whether that be 10 or 20 years from now. It sure as hell wont involve any red looking humanoids as that completely contradicts whats been shown on screen for the past 30 years and the vision of Lucas thats now running through Kennedy.

 

Either 3 things are going to happen with SWTOR and that is:

 

1. Nullified and wont be brought into the new canon.

2. Story is allowed to continue until the license has run its course then nullified

3. SWTOR will get special treatment and considered "canon" until Disney goes ahead with a Sith origins movie/trilogy.

 

Either way the lore surrounding this game will end up at the same place. Its just how long Disney will let it last.

 

I agree they will use it in those ways, but I don't see why the Sith species is so out of line. A villain-looking alien species being dominated by Humans Dark Jedi. And the movie's Sith is a completely different thing, the Sith species were extinct by that point.

[ericpeterson]

Almost. Based on the rules in their press release and the tweets from senior people handling this thereafter, what we know is that ONLY things in the films, TCW, and the Darth Maul new comic are actually real canon rules.

 

So unless the Sith species (not the order of Sith) got mentioned in there, then its a blank slate on that topic.

 

Unless SWTOR does actually get announced as canon. Right now it is still up in the air.

[Ksolkenny]

They said they were going to "rip the EU out like a tumor" ,it also seems their taking the rip off a bandage approach,but still its refreshing..who wanted to keep that bloated mess that the EU was,they have said that they are going to keep the universe(planets etc) as a resource and basically brush it clean from all that mess and contradictions..and its not like the novels,games,comics etc will dissappear no matter what some guys in Hollywood says..but it still going to be refreshing to be able to really could disregard EU without anyone starting to quote that stupid lettering system

[DarthDymond]

They said they were going to "rip the EU out like a tumor"

If you're gonna quote language like that, a cite or link would be appreciated.

[Ksolkenny]

If you're gonna quote language like that, a cite or link would be appreciated.

A sci-fi universe with as long a tail as Star Wars can be death for new stories, though. Finding space among the EU to make a mark without being hamstrung by established ideas is difficult, and even keeping the EU somewhat organised is challenging. Its growth has been cancerous -- like a tumor, it has no plan and no organisation -- it simply expands, blindly, as the collective fan engine shovels in new material.

 

And like a tumor, Disney is going to rip it out.

google is your friend

[ericpeterson]

You quoted an editorial on the whole thing. Very little of that is factual or from anyone senior at Lucasfilm or Bioware.

[Beniboybling]

google is your friend

Congratulations, you found a fellow hater to be friends with.

[DarthDymond]

google is your friend

Okay, well when you describe it as something "they" said, it sounded to me like you were talking about something that Disney/LucasArts said - this was just some random op-ed from January with such ridiculously over-the-top vitriol that it seems like the guy was out trolling for page-views.

 

I actually got a laugh out of how extreme the hate was in his opinion piece, since it seemed like a border-line caricature at times. But then I got to the line "the often-literally-vomit-inducing tie-in novels". It's a personal hangup, but I can't help but cringe when someone uses "literally" for emphasis when describing something that isn't... well, literally what happened, especially in a "published" article. (I know it's in the some dictionaries that way now as an "informal" definition, but it still comes across as particularly sloppy writing.)

[Trooperclay]

I know there are a bunch of threads already about the Legends and Lucasfilm Story Group announcement. But I really came to this forum to find information about whether or not SWTOR is being considered Legends.

 

I commented a bit about this in some of the other threads, but I wanted to create one specific thread here in the hope that maybe Bioware comments on it in a few days/weeks (or, more importantly, at least just see's that people care).

 

Again, please don't utilize this thread as a "What is canon, what is not canon" argument. There are MANY other threads where that is being discussed.

 

What I'm here to discuss is any concrete evidence or research that people see that answers that question: "Is SWTOR Legends now? Or is it canon?"

 

As I stated in other threads, I want to just mention these facts:

 

1) The first credit of the Lucasfilm Story Group was actually ON SWTOR. For Galactic Starfighter. If you run the credits for GSF you can actually see it there. This is the first credited note of the group of people who are involved in ALL canon. It cannot be canon if it didn't involve the story group (or if its not TCW, the 6 movies, Rebels, or the new Darth Maul comic).

2) On Friday, Jen who is a senior person dealing with Lucasfilm licensing fielded tweets about whether or not THIS or THAT is canon or legends. Everything was regarded as legends (everything, seriously) except for two things. The new Darth Maul comic which is taken from a TCW script. And when asked point blank about SWTOR the reply was "It is fuzzy. I cannot say." So take that for what its worth. The fact is SWTOR is NOT confirmed as Legends as of this time. It may be tomorrow. It could be that she just didn't know. But out of like tons and tons of tweets (at least like 50, ranging from Revan, KOTOR, Dath Bane, Darth Plaguies, etc) SWTOR was one of only two things that were not confirmed as Legends.

3) Just because KOTOR 1 and KOTOR 2 are Legends, it does NOT mean that SWTOR is legends. Truth is that Darth Bane the character is canon, since he's in canon stuff. But the Darth Bane trilogy is not. It could be that SWTOR is doing something similar, where it is going to be regarded as canon, but reference things from earlier games that are not canon. That's not weird. The films and TV shows do this all the time.

4) From what I can tell from the Cantina tours (and those preview flash drives they give out) we have lots of new story content coming. We just started a big story arc with 2.7. So technically the announcement they made on Friday: "All new Star Wars media will be handled by the story group and be considered canon," this TECHNICALLY means SWTOR has a good chance of being considered canon. Either SWTOR is exempt from that ruling, or maybe if it IS Legends maybe they only put out stuff like Galactic Strongholds which does not have story content. OR, (I hope) we get story content that is ACTUALLY approved by the Lucasfilm story group as canon. Holy crap, I hope.

 

Guys, this is kind of a big deal if you're a SWTOR fan. Because that means that the game you love may be one of the very few things that is still canon. I'm not assuming that. We do not know for sure yet. But so far, SWTOR has NOT been confirmed as Legends. And pretty much 99% of everything else has been. So that is interesting to me.

 

Even cooler, if it DOES turn out that SWTOR is canon, it means that you're playing the EARLIEST piece of canon in the NEW Star Wars era. But even more than that, it also means that we'd be playing upcoming content that is given approval or disapproval by the SAME PEOPLE who have a hand in the guiding of the newest movies, TV episodes, books, etc of Star Wars. It means the guys who know what happens in Episode 7 are involved in the new story content.

 

Again, this is only if we find out that YES, it is canon. I hope it is. Because I love the game.

 

I won't stop playing if its Legends. But right now, as it stands, there is NO official statement about whether SWTOR is Legends or not. In fact, when asked point blank, we got one of the very few "No comments" given. Plus, the fact that it has a Story Group credit already is very interesting. It could be just meaning something else. But its worth noting.

 

I would LOVE Bioware to address this eventually.

 

OP, at first I thought I was the only optimistic one here.

 

On a different note, if you go to the "Is SWTOR Canon" discussion in General, I made some points about the good possibility of TOR being "New" Star Wars.

[ericpeterson]

Hey Trooper -

 

Thanks!

 

I saw your comment about the Shae and Sacking of Coruscant stuff. I looked it up on wookiepedia though and cannot find the reference you mention. Do you have more details?

 

And forgive me, there's like 20 pages of stuff in that thread. Would you mind bulleting out your facts? I'm researching this stuff pretty heavily, and the 2 things I found from you seemed relevant to my interests. I want to make sure I'm not missing some.

 

Again, and please do let me know what episode of TCW Vizla mentions Shae. I cannot find it.

 

Eric