Type 3 Gunship

[Verain]

The type 3 gunship is available for preview in game- just preview the gunship paint job. The Republic one features the gunship cockpit shared by the Quarrel and Comet Breaker, but has two close-in engines and small foils that curve back towards the ship around them instead of wings. The Empire one is similar to the Mangler, but without the lower set of ammunition / actuators (it has two instead of three like the Mangler or four like the Dustmaker), and it also lacks the upper set of wings.

 

Both of them are the most compact gunship yet, and the tag associated with this was "battle" I think- I don't recall exactly, but I'm pretty sure it was the same tag associated with the Type 1 Strike.

 

 

So, what do we think they'll be? When do we think we'll get them?

 

 

My prediction: These ships will have a thruster component. They may or may not have armor or reactor, but hopefully they will have both. They could have a system component, but I think it's more likely they'll have a suite of blasters to choose from as the Type 1 Strike does. Their secondary slot will presumably be just a railgun only (and not one you can swap), and unless they launch a whole new railgun, the choices will be slug and plasma (if they DO launch a whole new railgun, maybe we'll see it on one of the older gunships as well).

 

Reasoning: Based on in-game, we see them as being smaller than the other gunships. They presumably mean for them to be more maneuverable, but their current system doesn't allow them any way to do that- all the stats are per-class with secondary things. So a thruster is probably the only thing we could see. We'll probably see them have more mobile engine components- possibly even retros- and if we are very lucky, the cool distortion field, and if not, the reasonable directional shield.

 

But we'll probably not see them have all the defenses of the Type 1 Gunship- meaning, probably missing reactor OR armor. If their blasters are meant to be good, they'll probably have magazine (a gunship without magazine would be pretty awful) and capacitor, meaning they would also be missing sensor.

 

 

 

What do you guys think they'll be?

 

 

To actually have some fun in this thread instead of turning it into a garbage dump, please avoid in this thread:

> Gunship redesign ideas

> Complaining about the barrel roll nerf, railguns, seismic, interdiction, or battlescouts.

> Complaining about snipers in general

 

There are other threads for these!

[Zoom_VI]

I can't link it but datamine says its going to be a hybrid between scout and gunship.

So like a faster gunship with BLC, clusters, and a railgun

[Verain]

I can't link it but datamine says its going to be a hybrid between scout and gunship.

So like a faster gunship with BLC, clusters, and a railgun

 

Whoa. So you think the 1 button will swap between railgun and clusters?

 

"Faster" presumably just means "has a thruster component". Each ship is exactly equal to its base class plus its components, so they couldn't just give it a faster turning radius or max speed.

 

Do you think it'll get the standard railset, or maybe have a 10km set or something? I guess if they actually could give it better speed or maneuvers, they could adjust the railguns, but thus far they've been unwilling to do that. I guess standard railset and some short range stuff.

 

 

That actually sounds really exciting tbh.

[Kuciwalker]

I know that it has missiles because you can see it firing missiles in the preview window.

 

I can't link it but datamine says its going to be a hybrid between scout and gunship.

So like a faster gunship with BLC, clusters, and a railgun

 

The only way for it to be "faster" is to have a thruster component. Base stats of all chassis are identical.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Zoom_VI]

The only way for it to be "faster" is to have a thruster component. Base stats of all chassis are identical.

 

Was there anything in my post suggesting that I didn't believe they would have a thruster component? The datamine I saw only had the ship descriptions, and "faster" in ship descriptions generally would point towards thrusters.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Armonddd]

I can't link it but datamine says its going to be a hybrid between scout and gunship.

So like a faster gunship with BLC, clusters, and a railgun

 

That would be rather cool. I would maybe enjoy playing that, even. I would definitely give it a try if it had a non-sniper-mode railgun (something that you can charge while flying, but has like 8500 m range, shoots kinda like rocket pods, and is significantly less powerful). I think trying to manage (mini-)railgun charge and blaster shots would be fun and interesting gameplay, and it'd be really sweet to peg someone with a mini-railgun shot at close range.

 

The only way for it to be "faster" is to have a thruster component. Base stats of all chassis are identical.

 

"Faster" presumably just means "has a thruster component". Each ship is exactly equal to its base class plus its components, so they couldn't just give it a faster turning radius or max speed.

 

Unless they bake it into a special engine or thrusters component! You know, like how Charged Plating gives you +20% shield strength or whatever? They could make a special Kuat Engine Booster (only available on T3 gunships) that does some kinda maneuver to break locks and gives a passive +10% engine speed +10% turning rate.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Armonddd

[Kuciwalker]

Was there anything in my post suggesting that I didn't believe they would have a thruster component? The datamine I saw only had the ship descriptions, and "faster" in ship descriptions generally would point towards thrusters.

 

Sorry, the idea I was getting at is that a thruster component, while absolutely appreciated, isn't enough to provide the mobility implied by "a scout-y gunship". It frankly should be default on the strike-y gunship.

 

Unless they bake it into a special engine or thrusters component! You know, like how Charged Plating gives you +20% shield strength or whatever? They could make a special Kuat Engine Booster (only available on T3 gunships) that does some kinda maneuver to break locks and gives a passive +10% engine speed +10% turning rate.

 

I kind of like this but it suffers from a few crucial problems:

 

 

1. There are very, very few components that are not just chassis-exclusive, but exclusive to a particular build of that chassis.
   
2. The gunship chassis already has an exclusive engine component, rotational thrusters. (Which sadly needs serious buffs.)
   
3. If that component is the source of the intended higher speed/endurance of the Type 3, then you are basically forcing Type 3 gunships to choose it in order to fulfill the developer vision. While the devs have created ships that have predetermined engine choices (*cough* gunship barrel roll) it doesn't seem to be their intent, and would be odd design anyway.
   

 

#3 is, I think, the most serious flaw in the sense of "#3 is the most salient reason that the devs will not do it". I personally wouldn't mind that much if the Type 3 didn't have a choice of engine component, but there is no convincing the devs of that.

 

Also, they can only have a special engine, not a special thruster, because there is no precedent for minor components differing between classes (other than which slots are available).

Edited April 27, 2014 by Kuciwalker

[Armonddd]

I kind of like this but it suffers from a few crucial problems:

 

#3 is, I think, the most serious flaw in the sense of "#3 is the most salient reason that the devs will not do it". I personally wouldn't mind that much if the Type 3 didn't have a choice of engine component, but there is no convincing the devs of that.

 

I agree -- it would be overall bad design, essentially forcing people to choose that component to be competitive. I've argued against that before. That doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, though -- take a look at your railgun options, or your overall T1 gunship build. How much room for variation is there in a competitive environment? Another good example is the T1 scout -- there's pretty much only two things it does better than the T2, and one of them is of questionable usefulness.

[Kuciwalker]

The reason it probably won't happen is because you are conceiving the engine component as being deliberately introduced to allow the Type 3 to fulfill its role - which means that the developers will have to know that it's the only appropriate choice. The developers have created single-choice slots before but it has always appeared to be accidental.

[Armonddd]

Yeah, I don't see that as impossible.

[Verain]

That would be rather cool. I would maybe enjoy playing that, even. I would definitely give it a try if it had a non-sniper-mode railgun (something that you can charge while flying, but has like 8500 m range, shoots kinda like rocket pods, and is significantly less powerful).

 

Our odds of getting a whole set of railguns just for it are low, but that's a cool idea.

 

I suspect it'll just be a gunship with a thruster component and probably the normal railgun options. Maybe it'll have two blasters, or maybe Zoom is right about it swapping to cluster or concussion or something. That would be fine, but your idea is shinier.

 

Unless they bake it into a special engine or thrusters component! You know, like how Charged Plating gives you +20% shield strength or whatever? They could make a special Kuat Engine Booster (only available on T3 gunships) that does some kinda maneuver to break locks and gives a passive +10% engine speed +10% turning rate.

 

They could, but they won't. The ship would need like a whole set of custom engine components just for it- that seems unlikely.

 

Still, your idea is a ship that is a bit of a sniper and a bit of a dogfighter and that would be pretty great to see.

 

That doesn't mean it wouldn't happen, though -- take a look at your railgun options, or your overall T1 gunship build. How much room for variation is there in a competitive environment?

 

A very good point, but I've been mostly assuming that the engine component part is not intended. The railgun part probably is- after all, there's only three railguns, it's not like we have five and everyone only picks one. I feel that the delta between slug and plasma is smaller than the delta between rapid fire and light, for instance.

 

 

 

 

Another thing is this: Assume that the ship has two railguns to choose from, each different. Say one is 8500km, one is 10000km. Maybe the 8500km one has a much bigger reticule to aim with- you can "close scope" it. Maybe the 10000km one offers some decent debuffs but isn't all about damage. Then you could backport these to the other gunships too, and give them some other options.

 

 

But I dunno how many new components we would see. I wouldn't anticipate a lot if they were planning on adding clusters and concussions. Those two are old standbys, as exciting as they would be on a gunship.

[DresG]

I'm not sure its such a good idea to give the two best short ranged weapons in the game to a ship that already has the best long, really long, range weapon there is. They might as well give the Type 3 GS Interdiction Mines.

 

I think they will try to keep pushing the whole support role thing they did with the new scouts and strike fighters. Maybe through a new component similar to remote slicing, except that it can be applied from GS range, or a new railgun that does not hit as hard as slug but adds a shield pierce debuff that lasts as many seconds as it takes you to release the shot (up to 8 or something)

[Slivovidze]

If they would give it Interdiction (after some rebalance of that shiz), Barrel Roll, and the extra component Armond (I think it was him) spoke about, they wouldn't create an one-choice slot.

 

 

• Interdiction which actively increases speed by pretty good amount, for a pretty long period, would be kinda cool, if the cost would be lovered and/or other balancing would occur.
  
• Barrel Roll would be just classic Barrel Roll.
  
• What was said before, engine component with passive +10% into speed and turn rate, possibly upgradeable into more speed or turn rate, and lock breaker, would be a nice choice.
  

 

Other than that, probably some missiles, maybe some 7k choices, maybe even Clusters, but I wouldn't be fan of that. Another secondary choice would be Plasma or Slug. I could imagine it having two primary slots, some classic choices (a selection from Rapids, Heavies, Lights, Ions or Quads, just not BLC) and one new choice, which would have really long range (8k base?) with really slow rate of fire and high accuracy not dropping on range. What would it do, I don't have slightest idea. Either just quite heavy damage, same to shields as to hulls, maybe it would have real low damage but 100% shield pen, or some debuffs (15s of shield bleedthrough?).

Thrusters instead of reactor or armor, and let's see what happens.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Slivovidze

[Armonddd]

Our odds of getting a whole set of railguns just for it are low, but that's a cool idea.

 

I suspect it'll just be a gunship with a thruster component and probably the normal railgun options. Maybe it'll have two blasters, or maybe Zoom is right about it swapping to cluster or concussion or something. That would be fine, but your idea is shinier.

 

I agree it's not likely. I'm glad you like it, though -- I'll add it to my list of things to throw into a GSF-like game, if I ever get hired to make one.

 

I feel that the delta between slug and plasma is smaller than the delta between rapid fire and light, for instance.

 

I can get behind that, especially since plasma gives debuffs and dots are good for smacking guys about to go under cover.

 

I dunno, I kinda wish all other lasers had like +50% damage +100% cost (or, in the case of BLCs, just +100% cost, or maybe +25% damage, or whatever the playtesting and mathing shows to be good). That would maybe give RFLs a useful niche.

 

Another thing is this: Assume that the ship has two railguns to choose from, each different. Say one is 8500km, one is 10000km. Maybe the 8500km one has a much bigger reticule to aim with- you can "close scope" it. Maybe the 10000km one offers some decent debuffs but isn't all about damage. Then you could backport these to the other gunships too, and give them some other options.

 

I would like that. Honestly, even if the new railguns were kind of bad, it'd be nice to see more of them in play, just for variety.

 

If they would give it Interdiction (after some rebalance of that shiz), Barrel Roll, and the extra component Armond (I think it was him) spoke about, they wouldn't create an one-choice slot.

 

It occurs to me that with a thruster component, interdiction drive, and maybe that non-sniper railgun I mentioned above, you could quite possibly interdiction your way out of a dogfight and turn around and smack people. That'd be neat.

[Luneward]

Well since most people have already put in the speculation I may have wanted to...

 

I'm in agreement that this will probably be the 'dogfighter' gunship that I originally speculated that the Cometbreaker/Dustmaker were going to be (until we saw their loadouts)

 

Primaries: Quads, Light Laser; Possibly: Heavies, BLC

Secondaries: Slug, Plasma, Concussion, Cluster Possibly: Thermite

Engines: Interdiction, Rotational Thrusters, Koiogarn Possible: Barrel Roll, Retro

Shields: Distortion, Charged Plating Possibly: Feedback, Quick Charge

 

Secondaries:

Armor, Reactor, Magazine, Thrusters

 

Reasons: I don't see this ship having any other long range weapons aside from the railgun. That's the domain of the crap gunship. So close range weapons and missiles. I don't mind a burst laser on a gunship as much as on a scout since they can't abuse it as much, but it always makes me leery seeing a BLC on anything intended to be a dogfighter.

 

I'd like to see a lot of close combat engine capabilities - at the expense of the high mobility ones like barrel roll. It should have to make tradeoffs for its close quarters capabilities. I wouldn't mind seeing a new engine component that broke locks like Armondd suggested, but it should be an active speed and turning boost not a passive one. It might make a nice Strike engine component as well to make them temporarily be able to match (or exceed with the right build) scout maneuverability.

 

Feedback is kind of the 'gunship' shield, so it can probably stay, but fortress shields just don't suit the build at all, so out they go! And secondary systems are pretty easy to choose. Just tradeoff sensor defenses for a thruster component (which everyone here agrees is kind of a no brainer that they would have). If for some bizarre reason they have two primary weapons instead of a secondary weapons, trade the capacitor component for the magazine.

[Kuciwalker]

I feel that the delta between slug and plasma is smaller than the delta between rapid fire and light, for instance.

 

No, plasma is at a ~8% accuracy deficit relative to slug. It's pretty awful for that alone.

[Nemarus]

The datamined descriptions were from a long time ago, but key phrases both Imperial and Republic included:

 

* survivability

* basic railgun

* ship-to-ship missiles

* enhanced close-range laser cannons

* additional speed and maneuverability and equipment options over the Mangler

* close-combat capability

* sensor range and ammunition capacity is less than that of similar ships

* dogfighting missiles

* powerful short-range laser cannons

* faster and more maneuverable

* can equip a variety of shields and engines

 

The lack of a Sensor or Magazine is called out explicitly. The "enhanced" and "powerful" modifiers used when describing the lasers indicates a Capacitor component. Additional speed and maneuverability indicates a Thrusters component. "Survivability" indicates Armor and Reactor. So basically it'd be the second ship to have the "perfect" set of Minor Components: Armor, Reactor, Capacitor, Thrusters.

 

It'd be silly if the ship which has "close range laser cannons" doesn't have BLC's, while the Type 1 Gunship (referred to in game files as the "sniper" variant) does. So I'd hope the Type 3 has BLC's too (though really the Type 1 shouldn't).

 

It'll probably only have the Slug Railgun, or maybe the Slug + Plasma. Though really, given that all three Gunships can swap secondary weapons, there's no reason they can't all have the Ion Railgun.

 

The big mystery is the Shield and Engine components mentioned. It sounds like they will be options the standard Gunship cannot take. Directional Shield and Distortion Field are the two most "dogfightery" shields I can think of, but one each is available on the other variants. Charged Plating on a Gunship could be a game changer. As for Engine, Power Dive would be nice, just to help stave off missiles. I don't really find the Gunships wanting for anything else, Engine wise.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Nemarus

[Icebergy]

Whoa. So you think the 1 button will swap between railgun and clusters?

 

That sounds OP as ****.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Icebergy

[Luneward]

That sounds OP as ****.

 

Not really. The Gunship still trades its long range firepower for reduced speed and maneverability. It's not a whole lot different in principle from the pike.

[Kuciwalker]

Trading away a railgun for clusters is not an obvious choice, people. In fact, if you gave me that option on my Quarrel I wouldn't take it.

[Luneward]

Trading away a railgun for clusters is not an obvious choice, people. In fact, if you gave me that option on my Quarrel I wouldn't take it.

 

You don't always get the choice not to mix it up in close range. In theory this gives you that ability Of course in theory a BLC isn't any stronger than other weapons, and in theory a lot of the command ship variants are incredibly useful. We won't know until we can get our hands on it and see how viable it is. I know there are days I'm solo guarding a node that I would like a little additional close range capability.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Luneward

[Altheran]

The big mystery is the Shield and Engine components mentioned. It sounds like they will be options the standard Gunship cannot take. Directional Shield and Distortion Field are the two most "dogfightery" shields I can think of, but one each is available on the other variants. Charged Plating on a Gunship could be a game changer.

If you tell me dogfighting shields, I'll tell you Distortion Field and Quick-charge Shield. Not Directional Shield.

[Verain]

If you tell me dogfighting shields, I'll tell you Distortion Field and Quick-charge Shield. Not Directional Shield.

 

Directional is generally superior to quick charge in the opinion of... well, quite a few pilots. Quick Charge has some advantages, but I wouldn't in general say it is better. I would certainly take directional over quick charge on any gunship, and distortion over any of those things on any ship.

 

The only ship that can get distortion that I don't always take it on is a type 1 scout, and only because shield to engine is such a dramatic game changer.

[Fractalsponge]

Charged Plating on a Gunship could be a game changer.

 

I admit to not having given this as much thought as I could, but why? Seems like there are more than enough HLC and BLC users out there to make this not a very good option, never mind trading slug railgun fire at range. And no gunship should be entering minefields unless there's a game-making cap required in domination.

[Verain]

I don't see why either tbh. Charged plating seems out of character for gunships anyway- that railgun can have charged plating too?

 

But it would make a gunship take a lot less damage from the favored gunship killer builds. A pretty big tradeoff IMO.