Legends =/= Non-Canon

[Beniboybling]

Also, you've misunderstood the point about why some people care about continuity. I take little pleasure in viewing the "old sandbox" as a work of art. I enjoy Star Wars partly because it is a vast interconnected universe. For more details, see the posts above. Sadly, I have no further interest in EU material that isn't considered canon, but I am looking forward to the new stuff that they come up with.

I plan on reading Tarkin first, merely because Luceno with Plagueis already has an established record of respecting the EU and integrating it a lot into his work, I hope he does the same here. Honestly I think that given the writers are fans, and they are certainly feeling the fan outrage, that they will invalidate as little as possible.

 

Lol this is got me thinking, every time I read a new Star Wars book I'm just going to be scouring for EU references and punching the air whenever I see one lol. I really shouldn't look at it that way.

[GrandLordMenace]

I expect that even if the work isn't supposed to adhere to the EU, it will anyway. They are using the same authors and authors like their own work, they will go out of their way to keep the integrity of their work where possible.

 

I HOPE this game will remain canon, as in my personal opinion it and the lore surrounding it is the best representation of the star wars universe.

[ericpeterson]

Your analogy does not make sense, because the sandbox could never get anywhere close to full. In fact, one could easily argue that there was an infinite amount of space in the sandbox. They could have kept writing into the future of Star Wars forever, or back in the past for thousands of more years. They could have written about more minor events in the periods that are well-explored, etc.

 

Also, you've misunderstood the point about why some people care about continuity. I take little pleasure in viewing the "old sandbox" as a work of art. I enjoy Star Wars partly because it is a vast interconnected universe. For more details, see the posts above. Sadly, I have no further interest in EU material that isn't considered canon, but I am looking forward to the new stuff that they come up with.

 

I mostly agree. Its a simplified analogy. If I wanted to mirror the exact circumstances it would mean adding an additional 2 paragraphs, and then it falls flat. IE: "Castles in the old sandbox seemed to start with Michelangelo Buonarroti architecture, and then stuff started seeming like a mixture of Andrea Palladio and Louis Le Vau. Completely contradictory in style." But then of course, why would 5 year olds know about that stuff? It doesn't apply, so forgive me for making it the lowest common denominator.

 

I'm right with you. I tend to really get into stuff I know is canon. Others do not. I'm not about an "us vs them" argument though. In my research about SW canon, that stuff just creates miles and miles of stuff to surf through before I reach real facts about the status of things. Personally, I like franchises like Halo or Warcraft, where there IS a story group and a real complex honoring of all forms of the license. A Halo book doesn't come out without the game guys agreeing it fits with future plans. Star Wars has never gotten that. But then I don't think Halo, Warcraft, and most other franchises would handle their licenses the way they started in the 2000s, if SW didn't pave new paths in the 90s. Personally, I think Star Wars just now is seeing the value in getting with the times. But like a lot of things Lucasfilm, I do believe they paved the way first with much success. EU fans wouldn't be so impassioned right now and vehement if things were handled badly.

 

But in regards to your note about preferring the universe to be infinite, and also my whole "sandbox" thing, I think Star Wars CAN be infinite. But when we get to something like the Clone Wars, where there are 4 competing timelines, its a sign of a problem. Either someone has to clean house, or the have to do SOMETHING. Which they did. Some are mad. I'm not. But that is my personal preference. I definitely see both sides of the argument. I just prefer, when I sit down to experience the Star Wars universe, a canonical presentation from the powers that be. And that's what I'm getting now. My analogy with the sandbox isn't about the importance of the old sandbox. Its just to illustrate the reasons why someone would make such a drastic move. I see the merit in it. Not everyone does. But there's pages and pages and pages of "we don't agree" everywhere on the internet on this topic.

[JediMasterAlex]

But in regards to your note about preferring the universe to be infinite, and also my whole "sandbox" thing, I think Star Wars CAN be infinite. But when we get to something like the Clone Wars, where there are 4 competing timelines, its a sign of a problem. Either someone has to clean house, or the have to do SOMETHING. Which they did. Some are mad. I'm not. But that is my personal preference. I definitely see both sides of the argument. I just prefer, when I sit down to experience the Star Wars universe, a canonical presentation from the powers that be. And that's what I'm getting now. My analogy with the sandbox isn't about the importance of the old sandbox. Its just to illustrate the reasons why someone would make such a drastic move. I see the merit in it. Not everyone does. But there's pages and pages and pages of "we don't agree" everywhere on the internet on this topic.

 

I totally agree with you about the merits of everything being officially canon now, but I just wish that that had been the case all along. I too understand why they chose to do this, but I don't think it was totally necessary. I think they could have reasonably left the vast majority of EU material in place while engaging in targeted retcons, as opposed to a clean sweep with targeted 'inspirations.'

[Trooperclay]

Yeah - They scrapped post ROTJ ( Which I Didn't like anyhow), and made the stuff that works with G-Canon "Legends". Am I correct?

[Sanguiluna]

An interesting idea came to me:

 

What if by "Legends", these old EU works are actually works of fiction that exist within the SW universe? Basically they're the GFFA's equivalent of historical fiction, providing fictional stories starring "real life characters", kind of like Dracula or Shakespeare in Love. J.K. Rowling has done similar work on Harry Potter; her expanded universe is almost completely comprised of in-universe stories and books, like Beedle the Bard, and publications of Hogwarts school books, as well as the Pottermore site which doesn't add any future narrative content, but expands on the series' lore.

 

It would be a pretty cool if the writers of the new books included references to the old books as easter eggs or homages; e.g. Han and Leia reading The Courtship of Princess Leia and laughing at how different the book is from the true story of how they got married, Luke reading about the Yuuzhan Vong and being thankful that such creatures do not truly exist in the universe, or Chewbacca, as well as Jacen and Anakin (if they're in the new canon) being angry at writers killing them off.

[DarthDymond]

Yeah - They scrapped post ROTJ ( Which I Didn't like anyhow), and made the stuff that works with G-Canon "Legends". Am I correct?

The post-RotJ is explicitly part of the "Legends" Imprint. Everything except for the movies and Clone Wars, whether it is going to be explicitly contradicted or whether it might still be possible to "fit" with what they have coming out, is all "Legends". (There is some question about SWTOR since it is an on-going project.)

 

There is some discussion/debate as to whether simply having the "Legends" imprint automatically renders it non-canon or whether having the "Legends" imprint merely means it may potentially become non-canon (if contradicted) because they are going to be able to contradict it.

 

We're still waiting for official clarifications from Disney/Lucas on both SWTOR and the "already non-canon"/"potentially non-canon if contradicted" questions. (My money is on SWTOR = Legends and Legends = Non-canon even without explicit contradictions.)

[DarthDymond]

An interesting idea came to me:

 

What if by "Legends", these old EU works are actually works of fiction that exist within the SW universe? Basically they're the GFFA's equivalent of historical fiction, providing fictional stories starring "real life characters", kind of like Dracula or Shakespeare in Love. J.K. Rowling has done similar work on Harry Potter; her expanded universe is almost completely comprised of in-universe stories and books, like Beedle the Bard, and publications of Hogwarts school books, as well as the Pottermore site which doesn't add any future narrative content, but expands on the series' lore.

 

It would be a pretty cool if the writers of the new books included references to the old books as easter eggs or homages; e.g. Han and Leia reading The Courtship of Princess Leia and laughing at how different the book is from the true story of how they got married, Luke reading about the Yuuzhan Vong and being thankful that such creatures do not truly exist in the universe, or Chewbacca, as well as Jacen and Anakin (if they're in the new canon) being angry at writers killing them off.

 

I could definitely see some writers choosing to throw in little Easter Eggs like that in their individual works: "What's that you're watching on the Holonet?" "Oh, just some really weird new show about aliens invading from outside the galaxy." "Huh... looks dumb."

 

(I'm assuming you're just saying "this is something that would be cool if some writers chose to give the Legends a nod and a wink in that way" not "maybe this is what they intend, as a rule, by the Legends imprint and how it systematically interacts with Canon.")

[antwillgreen]

The post-RotJ is explicitly part of the "Legends" Imprint. Everything except for the movies and Clone Wars, whether it is going to be explicitly contradicted or whether it might still be possible to "fit" with what they have coming out, is all "Legends". (There is some question about SWTOR since it is an on-going project.)

 

There is some discussion/debate as to whether simply having the "Legends" imprint automatically renders it non-canon or whether having the "Legends" imprint merely means it may potentially become non-canon (if contradicted) because they are going to be able to contradict it.

 

We're still waiting for official clarifications from Disney/Lucas on both SWTOR and the "already non-canon"/"potentially non-canon if contradicted" questions. (My money is on SWTOR = Legends and Legends = Non-canon even without explicit contradictions.)

 

That just seems abit more of an insult to the EU then I'd like but its an idea.......

[Ksolkenny]

What did you guys expect? that Disney Co bought this licence for 4 BILLION not intending to milk it for every dollar in every conceivable way? Make your own EU even keep earning royalties off the preexsisting books while declaring them non canon= best of both worlds/maximizing profits..

 

I understand this from my job in finance the past few years,the firm Im working for own quite a big lump of Disney shares in the portfolio my team manages,and the market seems to like this.

 

To speak frankly im not as optimistic as most to how respectful Disney may or may not be down the line with this licence.

 

It will be shamelessly milked for what its worth,just make your peace with that right now,cause there is no way this aint happening,only thing that may set a damper for this is any caveats/options Lucas may have written into the contract,but when they expire its open season.

[Beniboybling]

An interesting idea came to me:

 

What if by "Legends", these old EU works are actually works of fiction that exist within the SW universe? Basically they're the GFFA's equivalent of historical fiction, providing fictional stories starring "real life characters", kind of like Dracula or Shakespeare in Love. J.K. Rowling has done similar work on Harry Potter; her expanded universe is almost completely comprised of in-universe stories and books, like Beedle the Bard, and publications of Hogwarts school books, as well as the Pottermore site which doesn't add any future narrative content, but expands on the series' lore.

 

It would be a pretty cool if the writers of the new books included references to the old books as easter eggs or homages; e.g. Han and Leia reading The Courtship of Princess Leia and laughing at how different the book is from the true story of how they got married, Luke reading about the Yuuzhan Vong and being thankful that such creatures do not truly exist in the universe, or Chewbacca, as well as Jacen and Anakin (if they're in the new canon) being angry at writers killing them off.

Ha, that would be interesting, I'm certainly curious as to how Lucasfilm are going to define Legends in the new continuity. I do think however that Legends is supposed to be treated as stories about the Star Wars Universe, that may have happened, or in some cases just didn't, rather than some alternate universe in which they did.

 

On that note, I hope we don't see any works where some guy builds some wormhole device that teleports him to Coruscant-51 were the Vong have invaded. Then I would stop reading the EU.

[PavSalco]

I was very disappointed by the decision that came out of last week. Sure, I'm going to see the movie, but I'm not going to purchase the new books. Heir to the Jedi will be the last I buy. Although the book might have undergone a few changes to eliminate the references to EU, I doubt it would contradict it.

I do think however that Legends is supposed to be treated as stories about the Star Wars Universe, that may have happened, or in some cases just didn't, rather than some alternate universe in which they did.

That's most likely. I highly doubt Disney would order to rewrite the main stories of the New Republic era according to the new timeline. So unless the new content doesn't contradict it, we can assume that everything up to 22 ABY has happened. They can add a new element like Lando's son that was born in that period and write the books about his early life, but it won't directly discard the Thrawn or the Jedi Academy trilogy etc.

Edited May 2, 2014 by PavSalco

[antwillgreen]

I was very disappointed by the decision that came out of last week. Sure, I'm going to see the movie, but I'm not going to purchase the new books. Heir to the Jedi will be the last I buy. Although the book might have undergone a few changes to eliminate the references to EU, I doubt it would contradict it.

 

That's most likely. I highly doubt Disney would order to rewrite the main stories of the New Republic era according to the new timeline. So unless the new content doesn't contradict it, we can assume that everything up to 22 ABY has happened. They can add a new element like Lando's son that was born in that period and write the books about his early life, but it won't directly discard the Thrawn or the Jedi Academy trilogy etc.

 

At this point honestly unless it UTTERLY disregards whatever has gone on, id just like to hope someway it can been seen and agreed that it all happend in some shape or form... but thats probably being too optimistic.

[Timarick]

At this point honestly unless it UTTERLY disregards whatever has gone on, id just like to hope someway it can been seen and agreed that it all happend in some shape or form... but thats probably being too optimistic.

 

That's pretty much how they are looking at it as well. The OP had it right the first time: Lucasfilm DID NOT, and I repeat DID NOT consider C-Canon continuity canon; The fans did. Is the majority of employees and Lucasfilm? Did the majority of them shove it down George's throat during Clone Wars? YOU BET YOUR *** THEY DID. However, George flip flopped a lot on what he liked and hated (just like the fans. Sound familiar?) So they saved as much as they possibly could that was salvageable and made it into the true canon. So with that in mind, even Lucasfilm themselves didn't consider C-Canon as any more than paid and purchased fan-fiction.

 

But the fact is, they always had to conform to what was going on in the movies LONG BEFORE Episode VII was even a serious thought. They even squandered continuity and fought with each other about what happened (Leia's wedding is a good example of this.) Is there a lot to like from Truce at Bakura up to Survivor's Quest? The last story to be told before Young Jedi Knights and New Jedi Order? You betcha! Is the people who are head of the story (and thus overrule Abrams when they want to,) mostly EU writers and artists? YEP. Leeland Chee, Pablo Hidalgo, Dave Filioni, Jen Heddle, being first and foremost among the group ALL of whom contributed extremely heavily to the survival of the C-Canon timeline.

 

So all of you take a chill pill and chillax. Would it be really neat if the "Legends" continuity was actually historical fiction based on "actual" events in the Star Wars timeline? Like Luke marrying Mara and siring Ben, Jaina Solo, Lando's son, things like that? It would be awesome!

 

I myself am a HUGE fan of C-Canon and my favourite character in ALL OF STAR WARS is Mara Jade. Am I sad to see it be altered as it goes forward? Of course I am, who isn't? But given what has already come before, I am more than confident and even optimistic of what is happening next going forward. From the new casting news, it's safe to say that a lot HAS happened in the time, and many characters survived, and some didn't. We will just have to shut up, stop being butthurt troglodites for 5 minutes, and wait and see.