JimG Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 One question: is it still canon? Because all my money I spend on EU is now worth NOTHING and I don't want to spend anything on something that is irrelevant to the whole Star Wars Universe. So is SWTOR canon or not? I don't want any speculation, I want statement. One simple question, I keep my sub on or I don't. That's absolutely ludicrous. First of all, what was your money worth before? Your money was spent and gone and in EA's pockets. So it wasn't worth anything to you any longer anyway. You paid for gameplay time or CM items. You weren't investing in the SW universe, lol. Next, you ask about "canon" but SW had several layers of canon. The movies were G canon and the Clone Wars TV show was T canon. Things like SWTOR and other video games were C canon and, therefore, were subject to retcon by Lucas...something he did several times in the Clone Wars TV show. As a result, SWTOR is no more or less subject to retcon than it was before. However, that's doubtful to happen anyway since Disney is focused on making movies that are post-ROTJ with the new sequel or around the time of the original trilogy with the spin-off films. The entire purpose of the EU decision was so that film makers wouldn't have their hands tied by EU stuff that wasn't developed by Lucas, himself. Since they aren't focused on the SWTOR time period in the movies that they are developing, this whole little temper tantrum seems moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I was checking this right now, courtesy of a friend of mine who sent me the link and seriously... What a colossal clusterfrak to say the least... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon We go from this... Q: What about the Old Republic era? JH: That's something we've wondered ourselves. Operating under assumption it's part of "past EU" but I guess we'll see. (...) Q: So I guess Tarkin and the other books won't mention the previous EU? And you didn't answer for KOTOR JH: There might be people you recognize. Will prob still use planets etc. We're not throwing it away. KOTOR = Legends. To this... Q: So does this include KOTOR and Star Wars: Legacy too? Or just anything around the time of the movies? JH: That would all be considered Legends, now. (...) Q: Is KOTOR, Darth Bane, and Darth Plagueis all being wiped? JH: They are now "Legends" but remember Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis are canon characters created by George. So KoTOR is Legends but the TOR might not be? What the f**k...?! How can Bane even exist the way we know him, without the Revan from KoTOR? WTB / Someone Who Knows His and / or Her stuff concerning Star Wars Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I was checking this right now, courtesy of a friend of mine who sent me the link and seriously... What a colossal clusterfrak to say the least... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon We go from this... To this... So KoTOR is Legends but the TOR might not be? What the f**k...?! How can Bane even exist the way we know him, without the Revan from KoTOR? WTB / Someone Who Knows His and / or Her stuff concerning Star Wars from that same article right at the end he says to ignore anything he said about videogames because he does not know what he is talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) from that same article right at the end he says to ignore anything he said about videogames because he does not know what he is talking about Why do you think I said this at the end of my post? WTB / Someone Who Knows His and / or Her stuff concerning Star Wars Also, I believe it's a she. Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I was checking this right now, courtesy of a friend of mine who sent me the link and seriously... What a colossal clusterfrak to say the least... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon We go from this... To this... So KoTOR is Legends but the TOR might not be? What the f**k...?! How can Bane even exist the way we know him, without the Revan from KoTOR? WTB / Someone Who Knows His and / or Her stuff concerning Star Wars They were asking a LucasBooks exec questions that had both publications and video-game examples in them. She started answering as best she could based on her knowledge of how it was affecting her area (the books and comics), then had to backtrack ("Guys, please don't ask me video games questions, I really don't know the answers. Thanks!") as people were taking her answers to explicitly apply to the games. I respect that she was willing to put herself out there and answer questions, don't really blame her for having to backtrack a bit in the midst of the flood she was trying to get through. But it will be nice when we finally get an official answer on the games. Edited April 28, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Why do you think I said this at the end of my post? Also, I believe it's a she. the video games are going to be a gray area. They don't want it to be called canon in case they decide to make a change, but at the same time, they don't want to outright say it and discredit their own interests, so in the meantime at least concerning the video games they are not really going to say much until they figure out how to best deal with that in a public statement. Edited April 28, 2014 by Sangrar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) They were asking a LucasBooks exec questions that had both publications and video-game examples in them. She started answering as best she could based on her knowledge of how it was affecting her area (the books and comics), then had to backtrack ("Guys, please don't ask me video games questions, I really don't know the answers. Thanks!") as people were taking her answers to explicitly apply to the games. I respect that she was willing to put herself out there and answer questions, don't really blame her for having to backtrack a bit in the midst of the flood she was trying to get through. But it will be nice when we finally get an official answer on the games. Darth Bane was featured prominently in novels, NOT video-games. That should be her area of expertise I assume. The TOR reference by me was more so a reference to the period itself, not so much the video-game, seeing that Bane's character development is greatly influenced by Revan during the time he was a Sith Lord. If KoTOR is no longer canon, what does that mean to Bane, seeing that she explicitly states that his existence is apparently canon? Maybe I should have been clearer previously but yet again, all I've seen so far is rather vague, not to mention handled in a rather amateurish fashion to say the least. This isn't exactly rocket science or people trying to split the atom. the video games are going to be a gray area. They don't want it to be called canon in case they decide to make a change, but at the same time, they don't want to outright say it and discredit their own interests, so in the meantime at least concerning the video games they are not really going to say much until they figure out how to best deal with that in a public statement. I get the feeling some of the people involved can't tell the difference between their backside and their elbow. Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Darth Bane was featured prominently in novels, NOT video-games. That should be her area of expertise I assume. The TOR reference by me was more so a reference to the period itself, not so much the video-game, seeing that Bane's character development is greatly influenced by Revan during the time he was a Sith Lord. If KoTOR is no longer canon, what does that mean to Bane, seeing that she explicitly states that his existence is apparently canon? Maybe I should have been clearer previously but yet again, all I've seen so far is rather vague, not to mention handled in a rather amateurish fashion to say the least. This isn't exactly rocket science or people trying to split the atom. I get the feeling some of the people involved can't tell the difference between their backside and their elbow. Bane existence is explicitly canon, although nothing about him is Canon beyond his name and the fact that he originated the Rule of Two. It is not Canon that he got the idea from Revan, nor that he lived 1000 years BBY, nor anything else from the novels and comics he was in. Her answer about him was 100% accurate. As far as Canon is concerned, nothing is firmly established about when he lived, how he decided on the Rule, etc. The only aspects that are Canon about Darth Bane comes specifically from the final Clone Wars episode: Sacrifice, where a spirit of Bane appears. Just like the only aspects that are Canon about Plagueis come from what Palpatine said about him in Episode III. Bane does "exist" but he might NOT exist "the way we know him" as you put it. Edited April 28, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Bane existence is explicitly canon, although nothing about him is Canon beyond his name and the fact that he originated the Rule of Two. It is not Canon that he got the idea from Revan, nor that he lived 1000 years BBY, nor anything else from the novels and comics he was in. Her answer about him was 100% accurate. It would be accurate if she hadn't contradicted herself repeatedly concerning the TOR period, regardless of her area of expertise. The only aspect that are Canon about Darth Bane comes specifically from the final Clone Wars episode: Sacrifice, where a spirit of Bane appears. Just like the only aspects that are Canon about Plagueis come from what Palpatine said about him in Episode III. I didn't brought up Plagueis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeterno Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 So basically KOTOR/TOR are on probation pending new material contradicting it in any ways. As expected. On the bright side, they're unlikely to ever do movies in this era and the sequels arent likely to mention much detail, if anything at all. This legend concept is lazy as pheck tho lol. We don't want to bother with consistency but we don't want a parallel universe so we'll just say any conflicts are chalked up to history becoming legend and legend becoming myth... We're not trying to keep it coherent anymore, just pretend that we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) It would be accurate if she hadn't contradicted herself repeatedly concerning the TOR period, regardless of her area of expertise. What contradiction? Going by your own quotes: Q: What about the Old Republic era? JH: That's something we've wondered ourselves. Operating under assumption it's part of "past EU" but I guess we'll see. (...) Q: So I guess Tarkin and the other books won't mention the previous EU? And you didn't answer for KOTOR JH: There might be people you recognize. Will prob still use planets etc. We're not throwing it away. KOTOR = Legends. Q: So does this include KOTOR and Star Wars: Legacy too? Or just anything around the time of the movies? JH: That would all be considered Legends, now. (...) Q: Is KOTOR, Darth Bane, and Darth Plagueis all being wiped? JH: They are now "Legends" but remember Darth Bane and Darth Plagueis are canon characters created by George. The furthest she drifted was between "assuming it's Legends/Past-EU" to "it is Legends", not really a contradiction. I didn't brought up Plagueis. They were hand-in-hand in both the question and answer, which was the only time he Bane came up at all, only reason I mentioned him. Edited April 28, 2014 by DarthDymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) I'll try to reexamine and / or address what I said earlier in a more cohesive fashion, given the time I had already to cool off. Here it goes... - - - - As I mentioned earlier, Jennifer Heddle mentions here... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/User:Toprawa_and_Ralltiir/Canon That even though KoTOR is NOT canon, being a part of Legends now, the Old Republic video-game may still be, given that it is ongoing... JH: Lots of you are asking about The Old Republic...I assume that is now "Legends," but I don't know 100%. Esp w/ game ongoing. This seems sensible and probably would make sense, since I guess Disney is not that interested in alienating people from this venture. On the other hand, as also mentioned earlier... Q: So does this include KOTOR and Star Wars: Legacy too? Or just anything around the time of the movies? JH: That would all be considered Legends, now And this is where I have an issue: The feeling that what is canon and NOT canon completely feels arbitrary or even being handled by people who don't know their stuff. KoTOR is Legends but TOR is not? Where's the sense in this? Who made such decision, in case this turns out to be accurate? How is it even remotely logical? Again, fairly amateurish, not to mention nonsensical. People had plenty of time to provide an educated and clear answer on all these issues and I just get the feeling they're making it up, as they go along. For example, Bane may be canon but his earlier portrayal which - I assume - probably served as basis for TCW TV series is not. Again, perfect sense to me. Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) What contradiction? Going by your own quotes: The furthest she drifted was between "assuming it's Legends/Past-EU" to "it is Legends", not really a contradiction. Last I checked, KoTOR and TOR are closely related, if not impossibly intertwined. If one of them is Legends, shouldn't the other be as well? Thus, I see there a contradiction. They were hand-in-hand in both the question and answer, which was the only time he Bane came up at all, only reason I mentioned him. That is unrelated to me. Plagueis does not concern the period in time we're discussing. Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Are you saying that Heddle is contradicting herself? Or that there are contradicting messages coming out of LucasArts as a whole? Because if you're just talking about the Twitter Q&A I do not see how you get from this: JH: Lots of you are asking about The Old Republic...I assume that is now "Legends," but I don't know 100%. Esp w/ game ongoing. to this: KoTOR is Legends but TOR is not? Where's the sense in this? She hedged her bets with the "don't know 100%" and pointed out that because "game [is] ongoing" is the main reason that she isn't certain. But not being 100% certain is a far cry from saying it isn't Legends, as you seem to be taking it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Are you saying that Heddle is contradicting herself? Or that there are contradicting messages coming out of LucasArts as a whole? I believe she's contradicting herself, as I mentioned above. She hedged her bets with the "don't know 100%" and pointed out that because "game [is] ongoing" is the main reason that she isn't certain. But not being 100% certain is a far cry from saying it isn't Legends, as you seem to be taking it there. As I've mentioned already... Last I checked, KoTOR and TOR are closely related, if not impossibly intertwined. If one of them is Legends, shouldn't the other be as well? Thus, I see there a contradiction. If not a contradiction, quite possibly ignorance. Edited April 28, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manweth Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Am I the only one that has an issue with the fact that: Kyle Katarn is NOT canon BUT Jar *********** Jar Binks is? I mean really? Realzies? For realz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 One question: is it still canon? Until there's a new chance to make $ on TOR times, yes. But it's ALL fictional...this is ALL make believe...keep that in mind...study world history for true "canon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 No. I spent my money for official continuation of Star Wars Saga. SWTOR was official backstory for Star Wars Saga and used a lot from the EU. Now, since they stated everything that was published before "A New Dawn" is non-canon, why should I bother? I want official statement about SWTOR because I don't want to play a game that is irrelevant. Uhmm, considering that the game takes place 3000 years before the movies pretty much makes it irrelevant now. Nothing we or BW does in this game is going to impact what has happened in the "official" official canon (the six movies) and everything thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Uhmm, considering that the game takes place 3000 years before the movies pretty much makes it irrelevant now. Nothing we or BW does in this game is going to impact what has happened in the "official" official canon (the six movies) and everything thereafter. What are you talking about? I could come up with nearly an infinite number of examples, but I'll choose just one. The Iliad was written almost 3000 years ago. There is a tendon in your body named after its main character. You seriously think that people, events, and ideas from antiquity haven't affected the present? The classics were the foundation for education in the west for centuries until relatively recently. The point I am making is that the people, events, and ideas that took place in the Old Republic Era, if they are canon, had profound effects on the later Star Wars galaxy, but since it isn't real history it is harder to trace exactly what those effects are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) What are you talking about? I could come up with nearly an infinite number of examples, but I'll choose just one. The Iliad was written almost 3000 years ago. There is a tendon in your body named after its main character. You seriously think that people, events, and ideas from antiquity haven't affected the present? The classics were the foundation for education in the west for centuries until relatively recently. The point I am making is that the people, events, and ideas that took place in the Old Republic Era, if they are canon, had profound effects on the later Star Wars galaxy, but since it isn't real history it is harder to trace exactly what those effects are. Uhh, what are you talking about. This is a game, set in a completely fictionalized universe in which the "official" canon was created 20-odd years before anything relating to this game and its predecessors was even thought about. Unless Disney decides to pull a Lucas and redo actual scenes from the movies, nothing that has happened in KOTOR I & II, and in SWTOR, and nothing that will happen in SWTOR has any bearing on what happened in those movies. Now certainly, Disney can make nods (as they indicated they would) to the EU, and thusly this game, but that still doesn't make the game, or our actions, any more relevant than if they completely ignore the game in favor of creating additional movies. Edited April 29, 2014 by TravelersWay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtGeneralGezlin Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 You all know that Jennifer Heddle is a Senior Editor at LucasBooks. Why would she know ANYTHING about how the new canon stuff will deal with games? Or do people just want a reason to complain? (I'm going with the second...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Uhh, what are you talking about. This is a game, set in a completely fictionalized universe in which the "official" canon was created 20-odd years before anything relating to this game and its predecessors was even thought about. Unless Disney decides to pull a Lucas and redo actual scenes from the movies, nothing that has happened in KOTOR I & II, and in SWTOR, and nothing that will happen in SWTOR has any bearing on what happened in those movies. Now certainly, Disney can make nods (as they indicated they would) to the EU, and thusly this game, but that still doesn't make the game, or our actions, any more relevant than if they completely ignore the game in favor of creating additional movies. You're missing the point. Whether or not Old Republic related material actually is reflected in new Star Wars material is not the important question. The relevant question is: is the EU Old Republic material an accurate reflection of what occurred thousands of years before the movies? I don't care if there aren't even any "nods." You must not have been keeping up with all of these threads, but I'll lay it out for you. Either the events of the Old Republic era happened within the Star Wars Universe or they didn't. You may think it's stupid to care about that kind of thing, but some of us do. Deal with it. Edited April 29, 2014 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantazm Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 You're missing the point. Whether or not Old Republic related material actually is reflected in new Star Wars material is not the important question. The relevant question is: is the EU Old Republic material an accurate reflection of what occurred thousands of years before the movies? I don't care if there aren't even any "nods." You must not have been keeping up with all of these threads, but I'll lay it out for you. Either the events of the Old Republic era happened within the Star Wars Universe or they didn't. You may think it's stupid to care about that kind of thing, but some of us do. Deal with it. Maybe. Though signs point to "no" and I'd imagine it'll be chucked in with the whole Legends thing. But then again it's all fictional anyway and to be honest I'm pretty "meh" about the whole thing. Until it's contradicted outright, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelersWay Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 You're missing the point. Whether or not Old Republic related material actually is reflected in new Star Wars material is not the important question. The relevant question is: is the EU Old Republic material an accurate reflection of what occurred thousands of years before the movies? I don't care if there aren't even any "nods." You must not have been keeping up with all of these threads, but I'll lay it out for you. Either the events of the Old Republic era happened within the Star Wars Universe or they didn't. You may think it's stupid to care about that kind of thing, but some of us do. Deal with it. I don't think it's stupid to care about it, I just don't care enough about it in relation to this game because the game is fun and entertaining in its own right and whether it is relevant or not is immaterial because it doesn't affect the actual fun and enjoyment of the game itself and the world it presents. I think it's kind of silly to stop playing the game just because it potentially has no bearing on the canon of the SW universe. Quite frankly, does it really matter? I don't foresee anything else coming down the pike that would take place in the same time period as SWTOR, so there wouldn't be anything to contradict what happens here anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaboriHK Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The way I look at it, it's Disney making the fan fiction, not the other way around. They didn't create Star Wars, they bought it. Who says they're the final say on what canon is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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