Pvp, carnage and mechanics

[Decedere]

Hi all,

 

I'm posting in hopes of improving my play and others in PVP, specifically spec'd as carnage. I am a founder but took over a year off and returned this past December. Rage/Smash Monkey was an easy crawl before switching over to carnage. I knew carnage was the more "talented" play style and slowly worked my way back to it. A lot of people say mara's are dead now with the 2.7 change, but a lot of that seems to be just whiners. I like a challenge anyways. I feel somewhat comfortable with carnage now, but have a few questions (because I can't find any current or worthwhile sources anywhere):

 

1. Gore…when to use it and follow what with it? I initially followed with ravage, however quickly learned that force charge, gore, ravage was rarely successful due to knock backs from the target. I'm currently mitigating the knock backs by just trying to run at the target and saving my force charge for when they knock back to close the gap again.

 

2. Is Massacre a "filler" ability? I know I should use it initially to proc execute, is that about it? Or should I gore, then mash my Massacre ability?

 

3. Does force scream benefit at all from Gore?

 

4. Secondary stat priority? Noxxic is saying, "Expertise > Strength >= Accuracy (105%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)" Is this true? Power seems to have more impact than surge. I'm currently sitting at 100% for accuracy and seem to be doing just fine with 100%. Should i really be boosting this to 105%?

 

5. I don't feel as though we have much flexibility with the carnage talent tree. Its pretty much all in IMHO; with 5 points into annihilation. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

[Sappharan]

Hi all,

 

I'm posting in hopes of improving my play and others in PVP, specifically spec'd as carnage. I am a founder but took over a year off and returned this past December. Rage/Smash Monkey was an easy crawl before switching over to carnage. I knew carnage was the more "talented" play style and slowly worked my way back to it. A lot of people say mara's are dead now with the 2.7 change, but a lot of that seems to be just whiners. I like a challenge anyways. I feel somewhat comfortable with carnage now, but have a few questions (because I can't find any current or worthwhile sources anywhere):

 

1. Gore…when to use it and follow what with it? I initially followed with ravage, however quickly learned that force charge, gore, ravage was rarely successful due to knock backs from the target. I'm currently mitigating the knock backs by just trying to run at the target and saving my force charge for when they knock back to close the gap again.

 

2. Is Massacre a "filler" ability? I know I should use it initially to proc execute, is that about it? Or should I gore, then mash my Massacre ability?

 

3. Does force scream benefit at all from Gore?

 

4. Secondary stat priority? Noxxic is saying, "Expertise > Strength >= Accuracy (105%) > Surge (70%) > Power > Crit (25%)" Is this true? Power seems to have more impact than surge. I'm currently sitting at 100% for accuracy and seem to be doing just fine with 100%. Should i really be boosting this to 105%?

 

5. I don't feel as though we have much flexibility with the carnage talent tree. Its pretty much all in IMHO; with 5 points into annihilation. Please let me know if I'm missing something.

 

I have a lot of experience with Combat (Carnage). It is heavily reliant on procs and what you do in any moment is completely dependent on that situation, meaning that the spec is completely priority based--there is no set sequence of abilities you must chain together to produce victory.

 

1. Precision Slash (Gore) is tricky. People look for it and want to push, knock you back, stun or hold you when they see it. I have seen people bait the CC with Cauterize (Rupture), Blade Rush (Massacre) or Zealous Strike (Battering Assault...you'll need the resources anyway). If the opponent is not facing you and/or does not have you targeted, one considers starting with Gore followed by Massacre. You must intuit or "feel out" your opponents during a match.

 

2. Blade Rush (Massacre) is not just a "filler" ability. It guarantees an Ataru Strike with each use. Ataru Strikes are what proc Execute (which, when combined with Towering Rage grants auto critical--but that's misleading because fully specced the Ataru crits only grant this up to 30% of the time) and your hard Force Scream hits. Ataru Strikes also proc Slaughter, which resets your Gore and Vicious Throw cds (Vicious Throw costs no resources for the duration of Slaughter). However, if you wait too long to use Gore, Slaughter may proc which means you will use the procced Gore instead of the unprocced one and you will lose the reset value of Slaughter. Further, you will not be eligible for a cd reset for 20 seconds.

 

3. Absolutely.

 

4. Ignore noxxic. Remember, Noxxic is Toxic.

 

5. Combat/Carnage is 5/41/0.

 

There are NUMEROUS guides about the forums and a LOT of videos (look for Skytorush on youtube) which can show you what to do with the spec in pvp. It will take hours of practice the make the transition. It's not for the feint of heart and the player has to respond instinctively. This is a fly or the windshield spec. Sometimes you just get splatted. Skill, perseverance, situational awareness (I am lacking here) and experience can make this spec shine.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Sappharan

[Vodrin]

Just to reinforce a few points from above:

 

Massacre/Blade rush is not just some filler. After Force Scream, Vicious throw, and ravage it is your hardest hitting ability. It hits hard enough to scare most opponents outside of Gore windows if you are spec'd well. And since it is low rage cost, has no cooldown, and can be used to trigger all of your good procs, it should be used early and often.

 

Also note that people that are not paying close attention to your animations will mistake massacre for gore and will CC you if they are anticipating gore. Most opponents are sure gore is coming almost immediately when you attack anyways. Use this and be unpredictable. That is how you land full ravages and how you land your full gore windows.

 

So many players complain about carnage being easy to shut down, but much of that is because those that play the spec are frequently far to easy to anticipate. Be unpredictable and you will instantly become much more dangerous. Save berserk for when a target is not paying attention and use predation to be unkitable when you target is paying attention. And chuckle inside when an opponent gives you full resolve when your CC break is up. The ability to kill with impunity is always worth some merth.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Vodrin

[Decedere]

Thanks for the comments/replies. They are definitely helpful in refining my gameplay.

 

The burst is definitely there and it is laughable when not taken seriously and you cut someone down with gore, ravage, massacre, force scream and vicious throw before they even turn to face you. That said, my guild guarded and threw heals up on me all night which just sent my damage through the roof because of my throughput. Of note, we did win the matches as well (it wasn't completely about damage, lol). It leads me to my next point of interest:

 

How to survive and continue to "ravage"?

 

I'm using cloak of pain, force camo, undying rage, obfuscate, intimidating roar and saber ward as I think appropriate...listed below are my common techniques...am I missing or improperly using these defensive skills?

 

Cloak of pain: basically my go to defensive ability if I lock into a 1v1 or see my health start to diminish. I'll pop right away on a 1v1. I do realize it only lasts 6 seconds unless you are taking damage. So I try not to use unless I know I am about to immediately start taking damage or am.

 

Force camo: aside from the obvious disengage from a fight I'll use as well if I see I'm about to be hit heavy by someone else's ravage or Jedi equivalent. I imagine I could use force choke to do the same to interrupt.

 

Undying rage: used to remain in a fight that would otherwise kill me. I.e. My health is very low however my target is low and I need just a few more precious seconds to finish him off. I've also used it in a hutball scenario to run through fire or acid bath gambling that I'm about to score.

 

Obfuscate: I've been chucking this skill at anyone and everyone. I try to use it to close the distance without taking damage but usually im out of range for that. I guess I have to admit I don't have a good developed tactic for this skill.

 

Intimidating roar: as an interrupt, single target or with an aoe affect in mind; also to help me disengage from a fight. Additionally to root a target in acid bath or fire.

 

Saber ward: I similarly treat like cloak of pain however I tend to use this versus range guys more because when I think of tech or force I think of ranged abilities. I know that isn't 100% accurate because ops use tech damage for melee.

 

One final question, do saber ward and cloak of pain stack if used simultaneously? And should you if the former is true? Thanks all!

 

Dec

[Sappharan]

Thanks for the comments/replies. They are definitely helpful in refining my gameplay.

 

The burst is definitely there and it is laughable when not taken seriously and you cut someone down with gore, ravage, massacre, force scream and vicious throw before they even turn to face you. That said, my guild guarded and threw heals up on me all night which just sent my damage through the roof because of my throughput. Of note, we did win the matches as well (it wasn't completely about damage, lol). It leads me to my next point of interest:

 

How to survive and continue to "ravage"?

 

I'm using cloak of pain, force camo, undying rage, obfuscate, intimidating roar and saber ward as I think appropriate...listed below are my common techniques...am I missing or improperly using these defensive skills?

 

Cloak of pain: basically my go to defensive ability if I lock into a 1v1 or see my health start to diminish. I'll pop right away on a 1v1. I do realize it only lasts 6 seconds unless you are taking damage. So I try not to use unless I know I am about to immediately start taking damage or am.

 

Perfect.

 

Force camo: aside from the obvious disengage from a fight I'll use as well if I see I'm about to be hit heavy by someone else's ravage or Jedi equivalent. I imagine I could use force choke to do the same to interrupt.

 

Excellent. Yes, I use Force Stasis (I am a Sentinel) to interrupt Master Strike/Ravage if nothing else is available. Save yourself the damage and prevent his final tick of MS/Ravage.

 

Undying rage: used to remain in a fight that would otherwise kill me. I.e. My health is very low however my target is low and I need just a few more precious seconds to finish him off. I've also used it in a hutball scenario to run through fire or acid bath gambling that I'm about to score.

 

Excellent.

 

Obfuscate: I've been chucking this skill at anyone and everyone. I try to use it to close the distance without taking damage but usually im out of range for that. I guess I have to admit I don't have a good developed tactic for this skill.

 

This one you need to change. Obfuscate/Pacify will not hinder Force or Tech users. Avoid using on Sorcerers/Sages, Powertechs/Vanguards and Operatives/Scoundrels. It can stymie Smashers a bit, but will do nothing against the big hit because that hit is Force Damage. Use mostly on Snipers/Gunslingers and Marauders/Sentinels (not sure about Commandos or Mercenaries--I have neither class).

 

Intimidating roar: as an interrupt, single target or with an aoe affect in mind; also to help me disengage from a fight. Additionally to root a target in acid bath or fire.

 

Saber ward: I similarly treat like cloak of pain however I tend to use this versus range guys more because when I think of tech or force I think of ranged abilities. I know that isn't 100% accurate because ops use tech damage for melee.

 

One final question, do saber ward and cloak of pain stack if used simultaneously? And should you if the former is true? Thanks all!

 

Dec

 

I believe they do stack. When I tend to stack them is against Sorcerers, Operatives, Vanguards and Smashers--and I tend to stack them early in those situations (when Saber Ward is up). It really helps blunt their damage. Against weapon damage classes I tend to use it toward the end of *my* health bar (in 1v1 or small scale fights).

[Ryuku-sama]

merc/mando are mostly ranged user... but pyro use a fair share of tech abilities.... against gunnery/arsenal pacify rules tho...

[Vodrin]

Obfuscate/pacify is useful against mercs/mando and PT/vanguard. Just recognize for both a lot of their heavy damage moves are tech, but pacify does negate rail shot/HIB (one of their burst tools), and full auto/unload. So it is far from useless against them (as it is against DPS ops and sorcs), but saving it for a jug/sniper/mara is still better.

 

merc/mando are mostly ranged user... but pyro use a fair share of tech abilities.... against gunnery/arsenal pacify rules tho...

 

For arsenal mercs tracer missle and heatseaker are tech, so pacify does not "rule" against them, but it is ok since it does affect unload and rail shot.

Edited May 2, 2014 by Vodrin

[Pwnboy]

Obfuscate/pacify is useful against mercs/mando and PT/vanguard. Just recognize for both a lot of their heavy damage moves are tech, but pacify does negate rail shot/HIB (one of their burst tools), and full auto/unload. So it is far from useless against them (as it is against DPS ops and sorcs), but saving it for a jug/sniper/mara is still better.

 

 

For arsenal mercs tracer missle and heatseaker are tech, so pacify does not "rule" against them, but it is ok since it does affect unload and rail shot.

 

Also carnage marauders since it negates pretty much everything in their arsenal besides force choke, force scream and cauterize (but why would you use that....). Throwing it on one and then watching them whiff an entire ravage is lovely.