Solo Rated is for everyone!

[Carter_Mathis]

I dont get queues that often on my server, and when i do, i get complaints for "bad" gear, (i have full oberon set)

 

Are you unaugmented? Are you in tank gear as a dps? Are you in dps gear as a tank (not as bad)? Are you in pvp gear with the wrong mainstat? Are you aware of how to spell Obroan?

[foxmob]

Are you aware of how to spell Obroan?

 

heh. I do screw that up entirely too much.

[Rhyn]

Not in the slightest. Having the PvP community encouraging everyone who wants to join the solo ranked queue will only provide benefits. I've explained pretty much everything in the original post, but essentially, anyone who isn't very good will drop in rating and be basically a tier below other people. The competition is based on the quality of your opponents, so as long as people are playing equally skilled people it will be fun. If you get enough, no 1500 ranked person will be queued with a 900 ranked person on their team. The 900 ranked person will be playing other 900 ranked people, and this will not affect the 1500 ranked persons rating.

 

Again, having more people queue, regardless of skill, can only provide benefits.

 

And everyone they are Queued with loses rating so that drag everyone down not just them. It does not take long nor is it hard to get full Ob set of gear and at least get blue augments. That should be a requirement before coming into ranked. And you know what if people did that maybe they would not discourage others players who spend the time to be prepared and they wouldn't get so discouraged themselves.

[Darslk]

And everyone they are Queued with loses rating so that drag everyone down not just them. It does not take long nor is it hard to get full Ob set of gear and at least get blue augments. That should be a requirement before coming into ranked. And you know what if people did that maybe they would not discourage others players who spend the time to be prepared and they wouldn't get so discouraged themselves.

 

They don't get dragged down in rating. There would be equal amounts of new players on either side. These new players will also quickly get put into their own "tier" where they'd be playing players of equal skill. If you play ranked consistently and care about your rating, this problem would not affect you.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Darslk

[Master-Nala]

Question for anyone who cares to answer.

 

 

Would you prefer:

 

1) Strict limits on who could queue for rated (complete set of 1st tier gear; Valor 50+; full spec); as well as strict bands for what players you are teamed with (e.g. a 50-100 pt band of rating from the highest person in a match to the lowest)

 

Or

 

2) Current situation?

 

Knowing, of course, that ranked queue could take hours, or just not pop at all when you play if Option #1 was in effect. I know this sounds biased in favor of the Current situation, but it's not. Personally, I wonder if #1 is better, queue times be darned.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Master-Nala

[cashogy_reborn]

Not in the slightest. Having the PvP community encouraging everyone who wants to join the solo ranked queue will only provide benefits. I've explained pretty much everything in the original post, but essentially, anyone who isn't very good will drop in rating and be basically a tier below other people. The competition is based on the quality of your opponents, so as long as people are playing equally skilled people it will be fun. If you get enough, no 1500 ranked person will be queued with a 900 ranked person on their team. The 900 ranked person will be playing other 900 ranked people, and this will not affect the 1500 ranked persons rating.

 

Again, having more people queue, regardless of skill, can only provide benefits.

 

In theory this is ideally what we want to have happen.

 

But its not the reality. The first 10 games are 100% random, and those first 10 games are worth an absurd amount to your Elo rating. So if a huge number of scrubs are queuing, and you get stuck with a bunch of them in your first 10, you are fkd. That happened to me in Season 1.

 

Elo needs to get reworked in this game. It should be weighted in some way to reward you more points if you win with very low rated people on your team (you had to carry), you should lose less if your team has too many bads, you should get way less points for beating bads, way more points for beating players way above your rating, etc etc.

 

After your first 10 games, basically every one is +/- 10ish points regardless of the ratings on either team.

[JediMasterSLC]

It should be weighted in some way to reward you more points if you win with very low rated people on your team (you had to carry), you should lose less if your team has too many bads, you should get way less points for beating bads, way more points for beating players way above your rating, etc etc.

 

This function is already in place, so I'm assuming you're just saying you want its effect increased? I.e. when zeroday the 150 rating sin was on my team last season, I got 15+ for wins. When he was on the other team, I got like 5 for wins. The reverse for losses.

Edited April 20, 2014 by JediMasterSLC

[JeffrenBrek]

Let me get this straight: You actually WANT ungeared tards in your group?

 

Okay then...

[JediMasterSLC]

Let me get this straight: You actually WANT ungeared tards in your group?

 

Okay then...

 

4/7 chance any given tard gets placed on the opposite team, just sayin

[JeffrenBrek]

4/7 chance any given tard gets placed on the opposite team, just sayin

 

I generally tend to get the not-english-speaking 26k Health Marksman snipers that do 0 damage in one round.

[Darslk]

In theory this is ideally what we want to have happen.

 

And what is better? Settling for long queue times and low amount of entering competitors, or having a community that encourages people to consistently play and get better. I've talked to people who entered PvP, got an arena, got yelled at, and resolved to never PvP again. This is not how to get a bigger PvP community.

 

But its not the reality. The first 10 games are 100% random, and those first 10 games are worth an absurd amount to your Elo rating. So if a huge number of scrubs are queuing, and you get stuck with a bunch of them in your first 10, you are fkd. That happened to me in Season 1.

 

Not at all. If you somehow randomly manage to have three scrubs on your team against four decent players the majority of your first ten games (which according to ELO wouldn't happen) then you would end up fighting scrubs. There would be seven scrub players in the match, and you. Your rating would go up as you turned the tide in each game.

 

Elo needs to get reworked in this game. It should be weighted in some way to reward you more points if you win with very low rated people on your team (you had to carry), you should lose less if your team has too many bads, you should get way less points for beating bads, way more points for beating players way above your rating, etc etc.

 

This is in game, to a point.

 

After your first 10 games, basically every one is +/- 10ish points regardless of the ratings on either team.

 

/5char

[Darslk]

4/7 chance any given tard gets placed on the opposite team, just sayin

 

Sheesh, at the very minimal, there is this right here. Even if you don't believe any other thing I've said, this works in your favor.

[Prototypemind]

Just not to make a wrong impression, I do play both PvE & PvP (both hm/nim & rwz)

 

It's called RANKED with a reason - so people can compete and only thing they worry is their ranking.

Idea is to focus on competition, no-brainier there

So, idea of playing ranked as OP suggests - casually - is absolutely terrible.

 

 

Also, please consider these simple facts:

1. You can always vote-kick, or find replacement in Ops group for 'no-good' people without consequences

2. If you fail on the PvE encounter, you don't lose your prize, you have another chance, and another... - in ranked you lose 1 thing that matters to 'serious' PvP players - their rank

 

You really can't vote-kick without consequence. If you've happened to come in when few others are queuing, you're looking at being down 4 v 3 for at least the first round, if not both rounds. Even when that new player comes in, if it's not until round two, he or she has to get it right on the first try or it's over with, no chance to make adjustments to the other team in the next round.

 

Players may lack certain levels of skill in the matches no matter what, but a minimum level of gear should be expected, all the more so because that minimum gear level takes effort to get, which means players with it are experienced in PvP and offer some benefit to their teams. As someone replied, you don't walk into Progression Ops without the gear and experience, and you shouldn't be heading into ranked without any either.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Prototypemind

[Master-Nala]

Players may lack certain levels of skill in the matches no matter what, but a minimum level of gear should be expected, all the more so because that minimum gear level takes effort to get, which means players with it are experienced in PvP and offer some benefit to their teams. As someone replied, you don't walk into Progression Ops without the gear and experience, and you shouldn't be heading into ranked without any either.

 

Would you be willing accept greatly increases queue times for a more fair game? So gear minimums, tight ranking bands, etc.?

[foxmob]

/5char

 

by not quoting ppl properly, you make it very difficult for others to quote and reply to you. it takes as little effort to use

[ quote] stuff you're quoting. [/quote] 

 

as it does to use

[ quote] something.  [color] your reply[/color]

something. [color] your reply. [/color]
[/quote].

 

not trying to be "that guy." but do you see how when someone uses the quote system as intended to reply to you they end up replying to.../5char?

Edited April 21, 2014 by foxmob

[foxmob]

Sheesh, at the very minimal, there is this right here. Even if you don't believe any other thing I've said, this works in your favor.

 

since you play on pot5 (imp dominated), you know this to be untrue. faction imbalance. teams are not mixed-faction.

 

interestingly enough, if you have 4 really good players on the weaker/smaller faction, you could easily turn this disadvantage into an advantage and essentially dictate the entire composition of your team every pop, but this is rarely the case in practice.

 

I see it on JC a lot late night for a few matches when the population is low. but one faction tends to realize very quickly that they're getting the same teams each match and stops the futile queue attempts.

[Darslk]

 

by not quoting ppl properly, you make it very difficult for others to quote and reply to you. it takes as little effort to use

[ quote] stuff you're quoting. [/quote] 

 

as it does to use

[ quote] something.  [color] your reply[/color]

something. [color] your reply. [/color]
[/quote].

 

not trying to be "that guy." but do you see how when someone uses the quote system as intended to reply to you they end up replying to.../5char?

 

 

^Foxmob's post. Fair enough. Although, It's funny, because this post can't be quoted properly as is. I am unskilled in the ways of the HTML, so I've put it in spoilers, rather than making it all one proper quote (like I assume someone could do).

 

since you play on pot5 (imp dominated), you know this to be untrue. faction imbalance. teams are not mixed-faction.

 

interestingly enough, if you have 4 really good players on the weaker/smaller faction, you could easily turn this disadvantage into an advantage and essentially dictate the entire composition of your team every pop, but this is rarely the case in practice.

 

I see it on JC a lot late night for a few matches when the population is low. but one faction tends to realize very quickly that they're getting the same teams each match and stops the futile queue attempts.

 

Yes, this is the case right now. This would, for the most part, change if we encouraged more players to queue, regardless of faction. It wouldn't matter for the Imperials (on Pot5) because they can play against other Imperials. The Republic would be getting matches against Imperials that would balance out to be a similar rating. The only way this would ever work out the way you said, is if you're queueing at an offtime. If you are, well, sorry? There's East Coast servers and West Coast servers. People have things to do, places to be, and there's a prime time to be on. If you're queueing Monday morning, expect to be at the mercy of whoever is on. I don't think there's any reasonable situation that could fix this except cross server queues.

 

The single best thing that could happen to improve PvP, if not the entire game, is cross server queues. That is a discussion for another thread, however.

[cashogy_reborn]

/5char

 

Not every class is capable of carrying a group of bads. If you get stuck in Elo hell after the first 10 b/c of bad luck, be prepared for a frustrating grind out of it.

 

And the difference in rating gained/loss needs to be more pronounced. The system does not seem to take into account both the ratings on your own team, the ratings on the other team, and your own. Your own rating should be compared to the median rating of the other team, and it should then get weighted based on who is on your own team. The system right now seems to be comparing the median/mean of each group to determine rating gain/loss.

 

If I beat bads, but had to carry even worse bads, I should still get a decent amount of rating for that. Currently, that does not happen, and its why Elo hell is so incredibly deep in Ranked.

 

 

And you are quite naive if you think the community as a whole has any interest at all in improving their own skills in the game.

[Xinika]

I can't see how someone suggesting more engagement is a bad thing for a dwindling community...

[Carter_Mathis]

Would you be willing accept greatly increases queue times for a more fair game?

 

Yes

/char

[Carter_Mathis]

And you are quite naive if you think the community as a whole has any interest at all in improving their own skills in the game.

 

I tripled the healing of an op on my team and he said the difference in our healing was purely gear. He swore by, until he /ignore'd me, that his 1630 expertise was the cause of his low hps.

 

If there is an excuse players can give to avoid saying "This other player is just better than me", they will cling to it. Additionally, this thread discussed 'new players' as if the pvp scene of a dwindling game is just getting buckets of new players every month. The people who are so bad that they can be mistaken for new players almost never are new players, they're just people who have been bad and remained bad for 1+ year.

[Kerensk]

I can't see how someone suggesting more engagement is a bad thing for a dwindling community...

Exactly.

People complain there aren't enough players and they will quit if there is no cross server. Then when somebody suggests more people play that say, "No! Then I may get grouped with noobs!"

 

People playing ranked aren't really that much better than regs (on my server at least). There are some amazing players on regs too.

 

If everybody plays you will play with a few noobs, but you'll fight more noobs too. And if enough people play there will be enough for rankings to actually separate a team with a mean average of 1500 for playing a team with a mean average of 1000, on purpose like we have now.

 

I'm really hoping the update to ranked dalies will be the first step to building the population back up.

[Jasuke]

I agree with the OP. The stigma behind Rated is so bad that on the Jung-ma server, (Which is RP-PVP) server that no one ever ques for ranked. I sat in a ranked que for eight hours with no pop once. This is not acceptable.

[L-RANDLE]

I agree with the OP. The stigma behind Rated is so bad that on the Jung-ma server, (Which is RP-PVP) server that no one ever ques for ranked. I sat in a ranked que for eight hours with no pop once. This is not acceptable.

 

RP doesn't exactly fit into the instanced PvP formula. At least in my eyes. I don't RP, but I don't think ranked instanced is high on the RPers to-do list. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but I do agree Que times are long, but its mostly because populations are too low across the board to support it, regardless of the server you are on.

Edited April 21, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[foxmob]

RP doesn't exactly fit into the instanced PvP formula. At least in my eyes. I don't RP, but I don't think ranked instanced is high on the RPers to-do list. Maybe I'm stereotyping, but I do agree Que times are long, but its mostly because populations are too low across the board to support it, regardless of the server you are on.

 

and solo rated really requires mixed-faction to be a legit rating. regardless of the other issues ppl have with it. :2cents: