Ninja looting now acceptable?

[DawnAskham]

That's where the /ops channel comes in. I inform the team why I'm joining and what they should expect. Not a single team had problems with that. Just as I didn't have any problems with carrying undergeared people through the run in order for everyone to get a chance to roll.

 

Pugs go in 16 man groups because the content is even easier than 8 man and thr groups regularly have several undergeared people and a few of them are completely new to the operation. They have it even more easier because of overgeared and experienced players in the group. And while I'm all for "need for character, greed for alts and comps" in flashpoints and general PvE, situations like pug ops runs are different for the sole reason they take a lot longer and require much more effort.

 

I get what you three are saying, but I feel you're looking at it from a different perspective. That perspective says my time spent in an operation is not as valuable as the time that a new, inexperienced and undergeared player has put in. This is completely unacceptable. Not to mention demeaning. Anyone good enough to carry you through an operation is good enough to roll. Especially after they've informed you on why they're joining and on what they will be rolling.

 

@Dawn and underlined: Please re-read my original post if you're having trouble understanding. Putting words into my mouth is not a polite way of having a discussion. Thank you.

 

If you state before joining a run you will Need roll on items you want for your alts, and if the group agrees, then I see no issues.

 

Communication is key, and ANY loot rules communicated and agreed to before a run which are then subsequently followed are never an issue.

 

The issue arises when the group has been led to expect Need rolls will be used for the character in the run and Greed for everything else, then someone rolls Need on things not for their character.

 

When called on it they then reply with "I Need for my alt or companion'" and start trying to justify their roll after the fact, usually with the whole "I have better gear so I'm carrying others and deserve extra loot" type statements.

Edited May 11, 2014 by DawnAskham

[wjrasmussen]

Only way to stop the jerks is to put all the loot on token systems. You kill a boss, you get X-token(s that are related to the bosses you have downed. Not only is it the best solution, it gives the unlucky a light at the end of the tunnel towards getting that special piece. I for 1 have stopped doing SMDF/DP after trying since they were released to get 1 friggin' UW token for my 4 piece heal set on my sorc. Wise up Biofail.

 

Random loot rolls are fun for me. Your way is very boring to me. Oh let's see, I need X tokens and can earn Y tokens per day so in N days I will that item. Boring as hell.

[slafko]

If you state before joining a run you will Need roll on items you want for your alts, and if the group agrees, then I see no issues.

 

Communication is key, and ANY loot rules communicated and agreed to before a run which are then subsequently followed are never an issue.

 

I am glad you took the time to read my post again and think about what was said. Thank you.

[jrwellworth]

In advance, everything stated is how I feel about the subject and is my opinion.

 

Greetings-

 

Ya know, ninja looting is a problem we have all dealt with probably and something that will not go away unless some kind of change is made. What is the solution? That my friends, is above my pay grade. I would, however, like to share some thought on a couple of trends I've picked up on in this thread: loot etiquette in operations, gearing yourself and alts and pug runs.

 

I believe it has already been stated in this thread and it seems like common sense to a lot of us, but we have to realize that, like the warnings not to drink on the poison bottle make me suspect(which is there most likely because someone drank it) not everyone has common sense. Guys, if you join a raid, just for showing up, you are not entitled to jack squat besides the comms you get from your weekly reward. Not trying to sound harsh, but we all know that it is true. Hell, some raiding guilds that you pug into are running the op just to gear up guildies and its stated at the beginning that you will not be allowed to roll on anything. Is this wrong? No. That brings me to my first point. Loot etiquette in operations. When you join a pug group, make sure that the loot rules are clearly stated at the start of the operation! My raid leader, at the start of all ops goes over his 3 rules, 4 now, No whining, be civil, need is for an upgrade to the current toon you are playing on, set bonus counts as an upgrade, even if ur in 168-180 comm gear, and need on all mats to avoid last minute needers/ninjas. Making this clear at the start of every run cuts down on problems, QQ and drama. If you join a pug guys, ask for the rules to be stated.

 

I saw someone post in this thread that they saw people put green gear in a slot before a roll so they could need as an upgrade. While that makes me want to vomit, people like that are out there. If you are set on gearing up your toon, 16m pug runs is probably not the way you should be going. All of that ninja stuff can really be avoided by joining a guild, or a team. We do runs to gear up people all the time, its not hard and it is quite common. A night spent with your guildies in a sm df/dp run will have you geared up in no time, and since the run is to gear you up, fancy that, no ninja looting happened! Stuff like this happens every night, there is no reason why it cant happen for you, with the headache avoided.

 

My third point is basically the same as my last. If you are into raiding, wanna gear up, improve your skills, have a fun time, then why oh why do pug runs? Join a guild guys, get out there, meet people. We are not mind readers, how is anyone supposed to know what you want unless you put it out there. You might have to suffer through some pug runs, but if you see someone that is doing great, or the team is good, ask questions, talk to people. It might take a couple runs, but chances are you will meet some people.

 

In the end, we probably won't be able to stop ninja looting. I'm sorry if I dragged on, but these are sure fire ways to avoid some of the problems talked about in this thread. Once again, this is one guy's opinion, but I would love to hear if others in the community think as I do, or don't. I'm always interested in a different point of view. Thats all for now. Thanks guys

[Fraah]

What I do not understand at all is using "need" for luxury items that are reputaion items. "I NEED this reputation", LOL ?

 

Rep tokens...

Greed - can sell it for money.

Need - can use it in the way it is intended, i.e. to raise your reputation, it is an upgrade for them, no one else can "need it more" than they do, so it makes no sense to keep a tier of greater neediness above it.

 

Or should everyone greed, regardless of reputation being maxed? Why?

Should people who have reputation maxed pass? Pass is basically a minor afterthought (hidden as a little cross).

 

Need/greed....everyone who needs it to raise rep can need.

Greed/pass only offers the same options, with the added disadvantage that someone can ninja the item by pressing need.

 

I really don't see how there can even be an argument here.

 

Rare mats

Simple. Everyone needs. No one legitimately needs this more than everyone else. No one can ninja the mats this way.

 

Again, there is no practial disadvantage to this...

 

 

As far as needing/greeding on gear goes, I have a little personal gray area. On levelling flshpoints, I will need on gear which isn't a direct upgrade statswise, if it's a orange shell for my class which I don't yet have and if there is no one else in the group that can use it. Never had a complaint yet.

[ItachiZaku]

So what I'm hearing, this is the practice:

 

dps1: Hey

dps2: Sup

Me as dps, but in tank spec/gear: Hi, will be rolling for all WP gear (tank for myself, DPS for Nadia) and AIM non-tank gear for Treek. Hi!

Other: wut...

 

Just so that it is clear.

[Kyanzes]

Ninja looting could be eliminated by introducing new needing/binding mechanisms:

 

need for self - item gets bound to self

need for companion - item gets bound to companion

standard need - item behaves as usual (but it's a lower level need than need for self/comp)

pass

 

and also make items self/comp needed unsellable

 

also, order of need weight: need for self > need for companion > standard need > pass

 

I'm not saying this should be done but this would only leave absolute jerks in the picture (who need to make you miserable but could not profit otherwise from having done so.)

Edited May 17, 2014 by Kyanzes

[AlrikFassbauer]

Rep tokens...

Greed - can sell it for money.

Need - can use it in the way it is intended, i.e. to raise your reputation, it is an upgrade for them, no one else can "need it more" than they do, so it makes no sense to keep a tier of greater neediness above it.

 

I always "greed" on it, I don't sell these things, I want to have them for increasing my reputation.

 

However, since I have no time limit in getting these reputation items, I don't do "need" with them. I just don't do powerlevelling, and I don't do powerreputationing so to say. So there is no "need" for that for me.

[Fidelicatessen]

I always "greed" on it, I don't sell these things, I want to have them for increasing my reputation.

 

However, since I have no time limit in getting these reputation items, I don't do "need" with them. I just don't do powerlevelling, and I don't do powerreputationing so to say. So there is no "need" for that for me.

 

You don't have a time limit for getting a level or a piece of gear either. Your argument makes no sense.

 

I always NEED on Rep items if I still need Rep with that faction, and I encourage others to do the same. Why? Because it makes sense for GREED to mean you just want to sell it, and NEED to mean you're going to use it as intended.

 

I've made it onto one ignore list due to this practice, but the guy was a jerk and wound up on the ignore lists of the entire group because he was such a jerk. Everyone else is just fine with it. Of course, I always warn first (I forgot to warn that one time, when the guy went ballistic--I had been grouping with guildies/my wife a lot at that point, and for us it's NEED if you NEED them).