NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) I know in the past people have complained that Knights got the short end of the stick in regards to Chapter 3 rewards. Jedi Knights "kill" the Emperor, made a normal Jedi Master. Jedi Consulars kill the Emperor's Children, made Jedi Council Member. I also believe a few people complained about the Warrior's reward. I love the whole Emperor's Wrath thing, but it kind of sucks seeing as he is either dead or reconstituting himself somewhere while Marr orders Wrath around. I've only completed the Imperial side, but at the end you kill the Jedi Council's Chief Combat Advisor. It feels like they're setting things up to have the knight replace him in the expansion. The role seemed like one the Jedi Knight would fit into nicely. I'm not so sure about the Warrior since I haven't done the Pub version. You're told that a Dark Council member is killed during the assault on Korriban though. How does everyone else feel about this? Edited April 11, 2014 by NeroTethras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The Emperor's Wrath is supreme, the embodiment of the Emperor's Will on the known Galaxy, given his absence and the tragedy that struck the Voice. The Dark Council trembles at the sight of the mighty Wrath and thus, having in mind this particular predicament for the former, the Wrath being granted a seat on the Council would be both nonsensical and a demotion. Tread lightly, little one. On a more serious note, I believe there's hardly any info that would support such conclusion. It's just another plot device used by Bioware to empower the players, if only to remind them every 10s or so HOW awesome they are. WEEEEEE...!!! IZ K1LL3D DARTH SOBERIUS...!111!! Which is getting old, given the fact it's like... Possibly the fourth or fifth Dark Council member you get to kill since the game was released. They do need to tone down a bit the cannon fodder, even if having one of those there is mighty appropriate. Regardless... !!! SPOILERS FOR THE JC FOLLOW !!! The Jedi Consular exposes the Children of the Emperor and unmasks the First Son. He doesn't get to kill'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merouk Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Besides, rewards are also determined by the connections your character makes, which, if you compare Jedi Knight to Jedi Consular, The Knight is more like a peon, come here do this, go there do that, and his connection is that idiot general who loses all the Republic's weapons of mass destruction that they shouldn't have had in the first place. Once he saves everything, all they're going to want to do is just forget the Knight and all that evidence of stupidity and sheer incompetence of losing top secret weapons to the enemy during a war. Whereas the Consular story is a whole series of "I pat your back, but you owe me big later" with all the right people. If you look at it cynically, he's got the Jedi Council, the president (Saresh), and part of the Senate completely under control via blackmail, if he wants to. Sith Warrior, I always thought that "Voice of the Emperor" "Hand of the Emperor" etc. are titles, much like Vice President. Empire is always prone to such grand titles, to appease the Dear Leader (who doesn't really care). There is an element of the Force that makes these a bit more than empty titles, but basically the Emperor is just a stupid force ghost looking to control things via mind-controlled minions, and possibly come back to life / find a body via his galactic extermination plan. Edited April 11, 2014 by Merouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 For the 4 Force User Classes: CONSULAR The Consular is promoted to being a Jedi Master at the end of Act 1, as the council wanted a Master to be their representative in the Rift Alliance. As such, they were ready for the seat on the council when it was Vacated. The loss of the Children of the Emperor had a much bigger effect on the war in favor of the republic than the 'death' of the Emperor, as Act III for the Knight showed that the Emperor was barely even bothering with the war, just he wanted the death count as high as possible. KNIGHT The knight had a completely different effect on the war. Prior to the war, he: Stopped republic super weapons from being used on republic forces Led a failed attack on the emperor that resulted in the re-ignition of the war Fell to the dark side for a time. When the war started he: Went to Belsavis to stop it from exploding Went to Voss to stop the Voss from killing everybody and also helped kill Sel Makor Went to Corellia to stop the Emperor from killing everybody Went to Dromund Kaas to stop the Emperor from killing everybody Which kind of helped the empire just as much as it helped the republic. Now these actions did deserve the promotion to Master, however, this doesn't mean a council seat. Revan, for example, stopped Mandalore the Ultimate, and even if he hadn't fallen to the dark side the council would have exiled him like they did Meetra Surik - Stopping the biggest bad, in other words, is not going to get you a council seat. INQUISITOR After a failed attempt by the Inquisitors master to take their body, the current dark council member who the inquisitor was under got mad and tried to kill said Inquisitor. The Inquisitor then powers up, proves Darth Thanaton to be incompetant, wins a dual against him, gets robbed of the chance to kill him, and takes their rightful place on the Council, which they earned. WARRIOR He got promoted to the Emperors Wrath. In the hierarchy of the empire, it looks like this: EMPEROR EMPERORS VOICE EMPERORS HANDS EMPERORS WRATH DARK COUNCIL OTHER SITH NON-SITH HUMAN SLAVES ROBOTS ALIENS ALIEN SLAVES So yeah, going from Emperors Wrath down to Dark Council is a demotion, though Baras's seat was there for him if he wanted to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Anybody complaining about the Sith Warrior reward was just looking to go: ZOMG, I's on the Dark Council!!!!!11111eleven. I really have no problem with, if the Hand, Voice and Wrath are equals, being one step below the Emperor. Less people to kill to actually be the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 The Emperor's Wrath is supreme, the embodiment of the Emperor's Will on the known Galaxy, given his absence and the tragedy that struck the Voice. The Dark Council trembles at the sight of the mighty Wrath and thus, having in mind this particular predicament for the former, the Wrath being granted a seat on the Council would be both nonsensical and a demotion. Tread lightly, little one. It would sort of make sense if you think about it. I don't believe being part of the Dark Council removes his authority as Wrath. As a direct member of the council he would be able to directly oversee all of the Dark Councils activity and use his authority as Wrath to maintain order; something like a de facto leader why the Emperor is "absent". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 It would sort of make sense if you think about it. I don't believe being part of the Dark Council removes his authority as Wrath. As a direct member of the council he would be able to directly oversee all of the Dark Councils activity and use his authority as Wrath to maintain order; something like a de facto leader why the Emperor is "absent". Why go through all that to do what he could do anyway? The Wrath asserts this very authority at the end of the story anyway, telling the entirety of the council that's present that he would destroy anyone that stands against the Emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LtGeneralGezlin Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The thing I want for my Warrior is the GD Emperor's Wrath title back in the game! But, I agree with you about the Jedi Knight getting a seat on the council, if not becoming the new "Chief Combat Advisor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I think what most people complain about when it comes to the SW is the way it ends. It's just that final battle and then you go "yeah, so I'm the Wrath now. kthnxbye!" and it ends. Whereas most other classes get a whole long cinematic ending with their companions and lots of extravagance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Why go through all that to do what he could do anyway? The Wrath asserts this very authority at the end of the story anyway, telling the entirety of the council that's present that he would destroy anyone that stands against the Emperor. He'd be in a better position to do it. He won't always know about their activities unless he has a spot amongst them. Marr would likely let the Wrath know if the other member's were plotting, but they'd likely anticipate that and not let him in on it. I really don't mind either way if the Wrath is made a council member, but it sort of looked like they were setting the Warrior/Knight classes up for it. The only real reason I add Warrior in this is because I can imagine the backlash if Warriors are the only force wielding class without a council seat. I'm aware of how much power Wrath has over the council, however I'm also aware of how many people will ignore that and complain anyways. Edited April 11, 2014 by NeroTethras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millardkillmoore Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The Knight is basically the champion and greatest warrior of the Order. Giving him/her a job where where he/she sits on a chair debating policy would be a waste of the Knight's talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 He'd be in a better position to do it. He won't always know about their activities unless he has a spot amongst them. Marr would likely let the Wrath know if the other member's were plotting, but they'd likely anticipate that and not let him in on it. I really don't mind either way if the Wrath is made a council member, but it sort of looked like they were setting the Warrior/Knight classes up for it. The only real reason I add Warrior in this is because I can imagine the backlash if Warriors are the only force wielding class without a council seat. I'm aware of how much power Wrath has over the council, however I'm also aware of how many people will ignore that and complain anyways. You do realize that the council doesn't sit in the council chambers all day discussing what they are going to do right? Having him sit on the council wouldn't give him more insight into what the other council members were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 You do realize that the council doesn't sit in the council chambers all day discussing what they are going to do right? Having him sit on the council wouldn't give him more insight into what the other council members were doing. I'm well aware that it isn't all they do. The DC pretty much runs the day to day even when the Emperor is alive and whole, so they obviously do a fair amount of meeting in order to get the Empire's goals in order. Making him a DC member could put him directly in the middle of all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) The Knight is basically the champion and greatest warrior of the Order. Giving him/her a job where where he/she sits on a chair debating policy would be a waste of the Knight's talents. Like the Dark Council, "debating" is only a small part of their job. Each member has a more specific role to play in their order. Besides, It's obvious a job such as Chief Combat Advisor would end up forcing the Knight into the field. Edited April 11, 2014 by NeroTethras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries_cz Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Like the Dark Council, "debating" is only a small part of their job. Each member has a more specific role to play in their order. Besides, It's obvious a job such as Chief Combat Advisor would end up forcing the Knight into the field. Warrior was never meant to be in the council, or even get the Darth title. But people whined they could not be "Darth Vedar" warrior, so it was granted to them as well. As for the Knight, plans were to give DS Knights the "Jedi General" title. That was also removed so that people could have "Master Jedi Knight", screw their choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Warrior was never meant to be in the council, or even get the Darth title. But people whined they could not be "Darth Vedar" warrior, so it was granted to them as well. As for the Knight, plans were to give DS Knights the "Jedi General" title. That was also removed so that people could have "Master Jedi Knight", screw their choices. Just "General" really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertthebard Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'm well aware that it isn't all they do. The DC pretty much runs the day to day even when the Emperor is alive and whole, so they obviously do a fair amount of meeting in order to get the Empire's goals in order. Making him a DC member could put him directly in the middle of all that. Why would he be required to be a member of the DC just to sit in on what they are doing day to day? Are they going to tell the Wrath that he isn't welcome at these sessions? Any scheming against the Emperor wouldn't be done in chambers anyway, but privately in their offices/ships or some other locales. All making Wrath a member of the Council does is cater to, as I stated earlier, the "lulz, I's on the Dark Council!!!1111eleven" people. It is unneeded, and if most of them realized they outranked the Council in all things, they wouldn't want it any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Why would he be required to be a member of the DC just to sit in on what they are doing day to day? Are they going to tell the Wrath that he isn't welcome at these sessions? Any scheming against the Emperor wouldn't be done in chambers anyway, but privately in their offices/ships or some other locales. All making Wrath a member of the Council does is cater to, as I stated earlier, the "lulz, I's on the Dark Council!!!1111eleven" people. It is unneeded, and if most of them realized they outranked the Council in all things, they wouldn't want it any more. Planning amongst other members to overthrow the Hand and take control of the empire for "Its own good". Guiding the Empire in a certain direction as a guise for ulterior motives. Sith are tricky, they might figure that the best place to plot and avoid suspicion is in plain sight. Making the Warrior a Dark Council member puts him right in the middle of it all as well as a voice as to how the empire progresses. The Wrath can obviously come and goes as he pleases, but if they're using the war as a guise to further themselves he'd have a voice amongst the council to prevent it. He can't just say "I think you're plotting something, time to go Wrath on your ***" that would weaken the empire based on pure speculation. Again, I really just added the warrior because of the anticipated backlash if they gave the JK a council seat and not the Wrath. I'd honestly prefer they just did more with his current position instead of giving him another one. Edited April 11, 2014 by NeroTethras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeroTethras Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Warrior was never meant to be in the council, or even get the Darth title. But people whined they could not be "Darth Vedar" warrior, so it was granted to them as well. As for the Knight, plans were to give DS Knights the "Jedi General" title. That was also removed so that people could have "Master Jedi Knight", screw their choices. Exactly. Bioware changed everything around because of whining. The points I'm making in this thread aren't ones I really want to happen as much as they are what I think are going to happen. Based on the whiny feedback and the FPs killing off two Council member (Sith and Jedi) with Warrior/Knight oriented jobs. Edited April 11, 2014 by NeroTethras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) What some people apparently FAIL to acknowledge is that even though the SW is granted the title of Darth due to fan backlash, this had ABSOLUTELY ZERO influence in the overall story. Unless of course, anyone can link me to a cutscene where the SW is referred as Darth instead of... Wrath or Mighty Wrath. Regardless, like I mentioned earlier... This is not the first time where Dark or Jedi Council members were killed. Nothing changed for the aforementioned classes then and I doubt it will change now, as far as.. The JK and SW are concerned. Edited April 11, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I dont like the idea Jed Knight is just "Champion" without futher enlightment. Even the Sith Warrior gets promoted to Wrath, might aswell name the Jedi Knight as rank of Council Leader and Supreme Commander of the Jedi Resistance, as it seems Jedi are loosing ground and leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I dont like the idea Jed Knight is just "Champion" without futher enlightment. Even the Sith Warrior gets promoted to Wrath, might aswell name the Jedi Knight as rank of Council Leader and Supreme Commander of the Jedi Resistance, as it seems Jedi are loosing ground and leadership. Since you are mad that Warrior gets the name of "Warth" and jealous, I shall immediately petition BioWare for a new title for you Jedi Knights. Since Warrior is Wrath, you knights can be titled "Cuddles" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Since you are mad that Warrior gets the name of "Warth" and jealous, I shall immediately petition BioWare for a new title for you Jedi Knights. Since Warrior is Wrath, you knights can be titled "Cuddles" How about a Quest were Jedi and "Wrath" meet, the winner gets a title. Ofcourse the Jedi is better than warrior anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 How about a Quest were Jedi and "Wrath" meet, the winner gets a title. Ofcourse the Jedi is better than warrior anyday. This is so wrong in so many ways that defies logic itself. Stay away from video games writing if you please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZionHalcyon Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 This is so wrong in so many ways that defies logic itself. Stay away from video games writing if you please. Now now, don't harass Cuddles, he's kind of in the dumps today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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