LeishaWould Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 I have always loved to raid. I raided in SWG. Was one of the people that formed the groups. I raided in WoW. Loved the 25 man groups when I could get into them. And I love to raid in swtor. But what I hate.... I have the same gear, I have asked and I have the same stats as the top dps person in our raid and in one of my raid groups my gear is even better ... I have asked and I use the same rotation, read the same forum threads on the class and made sure I know everything other people know about the class. And still... for I know not what reason... my dps is crap I cannot get the numbers everyone else is getting in the raid. I see 5400dps, I see 4500 dps I see 3200 dps consistantly for everyone else and I'm lucky to get 2200 dps. So of course I'm the one that gets dropped from the group. I have no idea what they do differently. I have even given my pars to a few leading dps people and they've looked at the combat logs and even they have no idea what's happening. I have roughly the same (since no ones combat log is the same) percent of damage for the right skill. I'm at my wits end *sighs* I so love to raid! But yet again, I'm going to be dropped from another 2 groups and will have to look for a new one and hope I can get into a group that will keep me long enough to clear some NiM content come april 8th. End of my rant lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umbak Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) First of which advanced class and spec do you play?, are your mods stamina or stat heavy, etc as much info as possible for us to give you instruction. You mention you know your rotation but I have to ask how comfortable are you preforming it while paying attention to encounter hazards and do you keybind or click? I find many people stare rather hard at there action bars leading to sub optimal uptime on mobs or conversely spend all there time watching the encounter and messing up their rotation. There is simply no substitute for having your rotation (or atleast the core of it) down to muscle memory. Since you mention your parses line up in terms of average hits and number of abilites cast I have to wonder if it's something to do with your positioning/movement.One of the best ways to increase your DPS is to know each encounter inside out, and back to front. Good positioning will minimize your movement in response to mechanics and allow great uptime. Knowing the timings (within reason) when adds will spawn will allow you to have your AoE's off cooldown ready. Are any larger adds around long enough for your DoT's to run enough of its course to be worth the cast over an instant? How is your resource management? Sitting at max or no resource could be a problem even if your priority list is correct, likewise pushing too hard and bottoming out your resource and gimping it's regen (in the case of heat/ammo/energy). Spending time parsing on dummies and practice on actual fights (even in Sm) can help you get used to the flow of your resource regen and the output needed on any given fight. The 5000's you mention will be on AoE heavy fights with the average DPS in 78's on single target encounters generally averaging around 2.6-2.7kish. perhaps you are an advanced class or spec with limited AoE capability? I wouldn't put too much stock on dummy parses, they are generally outlying values, the result of improbable trinkt procs and crit streaks and only reflect the classes max output standing still in microcosm. Long story short, with the little info i have to go on I can only suggest the basics. That is practice practice practice. The more comfortable you are with the fight, your resource and rotation the better. Edited March 29, 2014 by umbak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 thanks for the reply I'm marauder, carnage spec 4/36/6 opting for brutality in rage tree. I have keybinds for my cooldowns to stay alive as in cloak of pain, saber ward, predation. I can do one more keybind then the binding keys are too far out of reach. I keep MS, gore, ravage, VT, FS, DST, rupture in a small square, easily reached. ATM I'm not good with where my keys are since I moved them all closer after seeing the numbers on the last raid and someone else suggested to do have them all closer to hand. Yes, I know the raids inside and out. I've been running the DF/DP HM combo on farm since they came out, just not with my mara. I've been practicing on the dummy since the last raid due to the fact I noticed I didn't have a good enough grasp on my rage bar and of course since I changed my key set up. Still not hitting the numbers on the dummy but hoping to get them there now. As for your comment on the 5k dps hit... that was from another mara in the group on a single target and he has less gear than I do. I was like "****!" how'd he do that but then as you say, he's been playing his rotation for over 6months I'm sure with the same group of people so he knows what they do and knows where to stand in the fights so all he's doing is his rotation. I'm new to the group so still learning how they do things but I'm still getting compared to the other raid dps so I need to up it. Either way, I still love the raids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swtonewbie Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Did you compare your dps uptimes at all? i dont raid in SWTOR so i dont know what the parsers and dps meters are capable of tracking. But i did raid all of TBC, WOTLK, went afk for Cata, and i did some MoP too (but only LFR for mop). The damage meters i used in WoW were able to track dps uptime. Another factor might be latency...but based on the amounts you are talking about and since you said your rotations are identical i doubt it's latency. So that's why i'm thinking dps uptime...because you can have the same rotation, same gear, same class and spec, and close to the same skill but if your uptimes are different your dps will be different. EDIT: also since you mentioned a Mara i'm throwing this out there too. When i used to play my rogue and if the fight had a lot of target switching, i would switch off of a target early. Once the mob was within like 3-4 seconds of dying i would usually switch. Only time i wouldnt switch is if we had to burn down the target as fast as possible. If there was no reason for my to stick to it, i would switch. DoTs and ranged could finish off the targets. If you are playing with the other Mara a lot, do you notice him or the other melee leaving targets or switching targets before you do? do you find yourself the last melee on a target usually? Edited March 29, 2014 by swtonewbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 I will have to watch for that next time I raid. Switching off early is something I do auto and don't think about and unfortunately, the raids in swtor, the little ones always have to be killed quickly and there's not much you can do but stick till it dies then move on. I do know there are times when you just can't compare parse scores. In DPHM, Calphaus (spelling? lol), the time boss, there's so many little stops and goes and moves and adjusts, you can't compare end dps, just the time you spend on the boss to get him to 75% and 50% then to 20% is available. Another boss like this is DFHM Draxus. There's alot of movement with no time for stopping in that one. Makes things interesting but really no dps compareability. Thanks for all the info! I still love to raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) I have yet to see 4500 or 5400 DPS in any raid except for maybe a few different trash AOE pulls. And who cares about trash really? Use an operations dummy. Put a million health on it & an armor debuff. See if you can do at least 3000 dps. Should take about 5 mins. You will want to maximize your stats. dulfy.net/2014/02/03/swtor-marauder-dps-class-guide/ You will need to purchase gear just to replace mods & enhancements that are not optimal. It can take a long time. You will want to PvP for Obroan Relics until you can get the ones from Hard Modes Edited March 29, 2014 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 my gear is BiS except for 1 relic, 1 implant, that's why I was typing this, I think the other person is right tho. Practice, practice, practice..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoshkar Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 Most people never think it is this...but sometimes it is... What do you have for laaaag? Also do you own a new computer over an old computer? I have had friends who are in awesome gear, best of the best, but they have a toaster for a PC and dial up (or close to) for internet speed, and they do horrible DPS all the time. It is a good thing I like them, but this does tend to be an issue for some more then they are willing to admit... Most of the time in a raid your PC is going to have a harder time loading everything over you running solo vs a dummy. Try turning all of your settings to minimum when in a raid, all names and effects off as well. You would be amazed how well this helps some people. (or at least those who have said above issues) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted March 30, 2014 Author Share Posted March 30, 2014 yes, I have thought of that and there are some days I agree, some internet issues have made it so I'm in lag city instead of a raid. I have a newer computer. It was made about one year ago and my video card was replaced (since it was an older version) 2 weeks ago. yes, it's a gaming computer LOL I did not get junk I'm starting to think it's the operator. When I go to dance classes, I'm slower on the moves and turns than everyone else. Maybe I'm slower on the buttons than you're suppose to be. It really isn't fair. I'd love to stick with the harder endgame but when it's a matter of knowing computers or knowing to bind keys (I'm sure there's some people out there that don't know how to do that), it's just not fair that I can't play with the big groups or at least they won't let me play Time for someone to allow me to get the stuff while solo playing!!! But! I still love to raid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 there is a difference between bashing a dummy for 5 minutes and bashing a raid boss for 5 minutes. Parsing on a dummy that is static is drastically different than a boss that might spawn adds, or has movement. Additionally usually the top parsers are using adrenals and are not overlapping their DOTs (if applicable). The relic you choose can have a big impact on your parse as well, since having a clickable relic that is rarely clicked vs an auto proc can be significant. Parse is not the end all in raiding, it is a metric but not THE metric. Having a high parsing mara who stands in stuff taking loads of damage, is worse than say a low parsing mara who doesn't. If you can sustain 2700DPS on a raid boss in the HMs you're probably doing pretty well and should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiVaN_ Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Middle Tree Mara/Sent is a rather difficult spec to pull off. You get these short little windows where you can do a crap ton of damage and the rest of the time you are eeking out just a little bit at a time. Long fights and staying on one target constantly is the only way you are gonna be affective in middle tree. If your groups are asking you to constantly switch targets (except in the fights where you absolutely have too) then your group mates are doing you a bit of a disservice. Have you thought about going Smash spec or Left tree? Play around with that other 2 specs (I find the best way of testing myself, realistically, is to solo all the classic dailies. This should give you some practice and a good idea of your damage out-put. Good luck to ya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFishing Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I'm starting to think it's the operator. When I go to dance classes, I'm slower on the moves and turns than everyone else. Maybe I'm slower on the buttons than you're suppose to be. It really isn't fair. Don't get discouraged. One of the keys for a lot of specs, and probably especially true for carnage, is APM (actions-per-minute). Compare your APM to the top damage parses for your spec, and see where you are, and if you can improve on that. And from my understanding, APM has an outsized effect on carnage because most of the damage is dealt during burst windows. As the poster above me said, you might also consider Annihilation, the left tree. The damage potential is only slightly below carnage, but IMO easier to play. You'll still need to practice a lot to get comfortable enough with it to be effective in raids. But since it is more sustained damage, not burst, it will scale more linearly with your APM. Edited March 31, 2014 by NoFishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted April 2, 2014 Author Share Posted April 2, 2014 thank you for all your replies I have been practicing, as I said I would and I have increased not only on my Mara but on my ranged dps too. The carnage tree is actually a very fun tree and I really love the dots and burst damage. I'm going to stick it out and continue to practice. If I don't make the grades with this group, there's always another and as my dps increases, I'm sure I'll hit a group and fit in well. I have thought about changing and someone about 6 months ago also suggested it but right now my gear is set up for carnage spec and if I switch, I'll need 2 more acc/power enhancements and we all know how hard they are to get I still love to raid!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Kael Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 thanks for the reply I can do one more keybind then the binding keys are too far out of reach. Okay I had this issue for a long time and I highly suggest a gaming mouse such as the Razer Naga. I don't know your financial situation but if you can afford it its good. It let me go from using 1-4 plus the mod keys to being able to use all twelve keys on the numbar plus the alt and shift mod keys and made things so much easier as far as hotkeys go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted April 2, 2014 Share Posted April 2, 2014 Middle Tree Mara/Sent is a rather difficult spec to pull off. You get these short little windows where you can do a crap ton of damage and the rest of the time you are eeking out just a little bit at a time. Long fights and staying on one target constantly is the only way you are gonna be affective in middle tree. If your groups are asking you to constantly switch targets (except in the fights where you absolutely have too) then your group mates are doing you a bit of a disservice. Have you thought about going Smash spec or Left tree? Play around with that other 2 specs (I find the best way of testing myself, realistically, is to solo all the classic dailies. This should give you some practice and a good idea of your damage out-put. Good luck to ya! This is one thing that occurred to me as well. In my raid groups, the Maras are tasked with staying on the same targets as much as possible while the ranged DPS do most of the target switching. If the group is not assigning players to tasks best suited to their class then that is a mistake. When you are comparing yourself to others in raid parses, make sure to look more at the fights that have few or no adds. These are the fights where the AOE heavy classes will not have such an advantage. The Lightning Sorc in my group comes out on top every fight with adds. The Mara wins on fights without adds. One more thing is to make sure you are on top of mechanics. I am rarely the top DPS in my raid groups, but people appreciate me in the group because I work very hard at (trying to)never fail a mechanic. If you are missing key mechanics, they may use supposed low DPS as an excuse to remove you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted April 3, 2014 Author Share Posted April 3, 2014 thank you again for more replies. I have been doing each raid every since they've come out so I do know the raids and know where I should stand if the tank does the tanking where I'm used to. However I am human and do make errors I'm used to fighting with ranged so doing all these raids with a mara is challenging. I'm learning and as far as I'm concerned, I'm learning fast. I'm still in the group so I guess I'm doing OK . I did notice with the mara that it's easier to get high dps by staying on the boss and this group does ask me to do that so they do know what they're doing. As for the gaming mouse... I don't understand why you'd need one. I have a G15 Logitech so I have F keys close to my pinky finger, the regular keys 1 to 5 close and some letters that are close. All my keys are close to hand so I'm not punching. I've gone into tfb NiM and that was very fun! I really really love to raid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuppy Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 Okay I had this issue for a long time and I highly suggest a gaming mouse such as the Razer Naga. I don't know your financial situation but if you can afford it its good. It let me go from using 1-4 plus the mod keys to being able to use all twelve keys on the numbar plus the alt and shift mod keys and made things so much easier as far as hotkeys go. ^QFT A 12 button mouse is a godsend for tor! I was very leary on spending that much money for a mouse, but I can tell you right now I will never play a game without one now. Very good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFishing Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 As for the gaming mouse... I don't understand why you'd need one. I have a G15 Logitech so I have F keys close to my pinky finger, the regular keys 1 to 5 close and some letters that are close. All my keys are close to hand so I'm not punching. If it works for you, keep with it. Myself I don't like those 12-button-under-thumb monstrosities, but that's probably because I'm old. :-) But I did switch to a smaller gaming mouse, starting with a Naga Hex and currently a Logitech G602, both of which add 6 buttons under the thumb. I found just having those few extra buttons on the mouse made a world of difference. I bind things like interrupt, stun, ground-targeted AoEs, Throw the Huttball, and my voip PTT key to those mouse buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted April 3, 2014 Share Posted April 3, 2014 As for the gaming mouse... I don't understand why you'd need one. I have a G15 Logitech so I have F keys close to my pinky finger, the regular keys 1 to 5 close and some letters that are close. All my keys are close to hand so I'm not punching. I've gone into tfb NiM and that was very fun! I really really love to raid. I have use one of the dozen plus key mice and I find they actually slow me down a little due to "button confusion". I have found the ideal ones for me have just the 4 under the thumb and a couple extra on top. I assign these not so much for attacks, but for those mission critical abilities like cleanse and interrupt. When I do assign attacks, it is for ones that are key rotation such as Tracer Missile and Unload for a Bounty Hunter. i find keeping it lean on the extra buttons makes me faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeishaWould Posted April 5, 2014 Author Share Posted April 5, 2014 yeah that's what I was worried about too. I'd look at one of those 12 key mice and think I'd never remember what's happening and then instead of doing rotation, I'm doing find the button. I did not know they had mice with less keys tho. I will probably look into the cost of one of those. If it's too high, I'll just have to keep everything close. I understand people like a challenge but a challenge that costs money in the purchase of equipment is not acceptable. The dps system should be geared to the gear level you have, not the mouse you have under your hand. I really don't agree with any of this at all. Where are the mechanics that everyone has to work together to get the creature down? I'm here on the forums with the same gear as the great dpsers (full BiS) and not doing the same dps? that's not right. I'm here to have fun with a group of people to take down a hard mechanics of a boss, not to run out and purchase a $200 mouse and worry about keeping my keys together and how fast my IP server has my internet pushing through those skinny little lines. Challenge is zero, fun is zero... hmm I really miss SWG But! I still love grouping with people and raiding and I don't mean the SMs that they've dummied down but the hard ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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