SUGGESTION: Missile cruisers?

[Sidenti]

I like the concept of the bomber as applied in GSF, but it leaves me wanting a more utilitarian option from long-range than a GS or a T2 SF with protorps.

 

What would you guys think about a missile cruiser, based on the current bomber but with no systems/mines (MAYBE a healprobe - MAYBE - but I can see how that would be a bit imbalanced even without mines or other drones the pilot can employ to support it) that can launch 3 or maybe even 4 different types of missile?

 

It'd be too slow to dogfight, but would have all of the missile options at its disposal, including the scouts' Thermite Torpedoes. It would also give GS something else to worry about, which might help break up the bomberballs we've been seeing - they won't be able to afford sitting back and potshotting most bombers, as the majority of bomber builds I have seen (on TEH, anyway) forego the long-range loadouts for more of a satellite-blocking punch.

 

But, as the wife keeps telling me, I often overlook bad things if I like an idea enough, and I really like this idea. So... what do YOU guys think?

 

And you can be honest. If you think it sucks, say so. I can handle it. Like I said, I'm married. XD -bp

[Armonddd]

I like the general concept, but I think there's some work to be done in other areas first.

 

Eric and/or Chris said yesterday that the team feels that missiles are to hard to land right now. Before we introduce a missile boat, let's get that more in balance. I'm not convinced the engine ability nerfs will do the trick the first time around (I don't think anyone believes that this first pass is going to be perfect), so the team will likely find themselves considering adjusting things like flight time, damage dealt (and damage spread -- between hull and shields), cooldown time, and maybe lock-on time. The primary offenders here are clusters (which are probably too easy to hit with) and torps (which are probably too hard to hit with, and IMO don't do enough damage, especially if the target has little or no shields remaining).

 

If this ship is going to counter bomberball, then bomberball counters need to be more accessible. I got into a heated argument about this last night -- the short version is, if you want to make a bomberball, you just need some guys on their stock ships derping around dropping ordinance that's extremely powerful out of the box. If you want to break a bomberball, you absolutely must have at least one gunship with ion railgun upgraded to t4 and the skill to know where to use it, plus the support to take advantage of the openings it provides. Now I'm completely ok with needing five ships to counter a strategy that involves five of their ships, but not when the defensive strategy can be played right out of the box with little skill or experience required.

 

So, I think we need an exploding torpedo. Something like EMP missile, but with a much larger AoE that does little to players caught in the blast and flat out kills mines and drones (instead of just disabling them temporarily, which currently has no visual effect to tell allies "this path is safe"). Throw that on our missileboat, and I think we've got something that works ok.

 

Of course, this all applies to the game as it is, not the game after 2.8 (which would realistically be the soonest we could expect a missileboat to show up, and even that's a stretch).

[Sindariel]

The type 2 gunship gets access to Thermite Torpedoes in the next patch (and Thermites get a nice boost). This means, you could equip them with Protons and Thermites and play it as a torpedo boat, instead of the usual sniper turret. Edited March 28, 2014 by Sindariel

[Nemarus]

The third Bomber was datamined some time ago, and description and some limited component information made it sound like it's supposed to be a dogfighter Bomber. It looked like it:

 

-traded Armor for Thrusters

-had some missile break engine options(!)

-Directional Shields as an option

-was limited to one Secondary Weapon, but could be missiles or torpedoes

-could equip some mines OR some drones for its system (#1) ability

 

The thing sounds like a monster hybrid Bomber/Strike. Even if its only missile-breaker is Power Dive, that alone would dramatically set it apart from the other Bombers.

 

In truth, it looks much more like a Strike. Except instead of being able to weapon-swap like a Strike, it can drop a mine or drone! Granted, its base shield capacity and regen pale in comparison to a Strike, but its got more base hull. It also probably lacks a capacitor. I wonder if it would suffer the -10 penalty to laser pool that all Bombers do.

 

I could see this thing being a pretty effective mid-range dogfighter ... use Concussion Missiles combined with Heavies or Quads, Directional Shields with a Turbo Reactor, and then a Mine or Drone to disrupt and frustrate anyone who gets too close.

 

Of course, this is all based on months-old data, so I'm sure it could change significantly before we see it.

[Morgrid]

The type 2 gunship gets access to Thermite Torpedoes in the next patch (and Thermites get a nice boost). This means, you could equip them with Protons and Thermites and play it as a torpedo boat, instead of the usual sniper turret.

 

So you're telling me I can have two missile boats?

 

My Razorwire and my Demolisher?

 

Hell yeah!

[Gavin_Kelvar]

So, I think we need an exploding torpedo. Something like EMP missile, but with a much larger AoE that does little to players caught in the blast and flat out kills mines and drones (instead of just disabling them temporarily, which currently has no visual effect to tell allies "this path is safe"). Throw that on our missileboat, and I think we've got something that works ok.

 

Personally I think they should just buff the EMP missile's base damage and/or give it a multiplier than only creases its damage to drones (leaving damage to enemy fighters as is now). I think rather than declaring the EMP missile a failure and abandoning it they should just work on buffing it so it actually destroys both mines and drones in one shot. If they added a new EMP 2.0 missile I think it would just get confusing for newbies and clutter up weapon options.

[Nethgilne]

Hrmmm... the Pike already has a pretty good selection of missiles and 2 secondary weapon slots. The option of taking more doesn't really differentiate it much from that. A completely different mechanic might be considered. like replacing the primary weapons with rocket pods AND having those missiles at your disposal, or something. Yes, I know, it sounds like total crap to play, but its something different.

 

If I may go on a tangent, I've come to feel that gun ships have taken the bomber's traditional role of long range artillery. My suggestion for missile cruisers would essentially be a slow bomber that deploys player guided missiles that either do large aoe damage or concentrated damage intended to take out one target. The range of the guided missiles will also be about 15000 and the player ship will be vulnerable during the missile's deployment.

 

This new bomber in my ideal dream land would replace gunships and the bombers we have now will be renamed something like "defense carriers"

[Verain]

I think the Pike is the missile boat, personally.

 

I think a demolisher running thermites AND protons won't be very interesting, but this is mostly due to their respective mechanics. The proton is a HUGE threat to anything- no ship can take a proton and smile. Bombers are the only ships that don't basically get one shot by them, and even they take a huge loss of a great resource. But, of course, the torpedoes have the really long lock time.

 

The Thermites do a different thing- the hull damage is immense, but you have to get through their shield somehow.

 

 

In my opinion, we don't gain much by putting these two missiles on the same ship. They have no synergy or variability. If you can fire one, you can fire the other, for instance (unlike, say, proton / cluster), and both of them are very devastating. It's hard to imagine a situation where you would want both of these over a railgun option- it would really limit the ship.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I will say that the bombers seem to be relatively poor at shooting missiles, which I think should kind of be something that they rule at. The tinkertoy component aspect is very limiting here.

[Morgrid]

I think the Pike is the missile boat, personally.

 

I think a demolisher running thermites AND protons won't be very interesting, but this is mostly due to their respective mechanics. The proton is a HUGE threat to anything- no ship can take a proton and smile. Bombers are the only ships that don't basically get one shot by them, and even they take a huge loss of a great resource. But, of course, the torpedoes have the really long lock time.

 

The Thermites do a different thing- the hull damage is immense, but you have to get through their shield somehow.

 

 

In my opinion, we don't gain much by putting these two missiles on the same ship. They have no synergy or variability. If you can fire one, you can fire the other, for instance (unlike, say, proton / cluster), and both of them are very devastating. It's hard to imagine a situation where you would want both of these over a railgun option- it would really limit the ship.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, I will say that the bombers seem to be relatively poor at shooting missiles, which I think should kind of be something that they rule at. The tinkertoy component aspect is very limiting here.

 

Trust me, if I could have Conc missiles and protorps on my Razorwire, I would squee like a little girl.

[Verain]

Trust me, if I could have Conc missiles and protorps on my Razorwire, I would squee like a little girl.

 

That would be a real waste of a Razorwire, is the problem. Pikes can do this already, move faster, maneuver better, etc.

[Morgrid]

That would be a real waste of a Razorwire, is the problem. Pikes can do this already, move faster, maneuver better, etc.

 

Flying tank.

[QuinMantha]

Flying target.

 

Fixed for you!

 

I so helpful!

[Morgrid]

Fixed for you!

 

I so helpful!

 

I already know it's a target.

 

Doesn't help mine is bright green.

[Applejacxs]

As thing dont stay stll in gsf. It would probably have to have some type system/buff that allows it to fire missles fast/lock on fast

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Personally I think they should just buff the EMP missile's base damage and/or give it a multiplier than only creases its damage to drones (leaving damage to enemy fighters as is now). I think rather than declaring the EMP missile a failure and abandoning it they should just work on buffing it so it actually destroys both mines and drones in one shot. If they added a new EMP 2.0 missile I think it would just get confusing for newbies and clutter up weapon options.

 

Yeah, we don't need a new weapon when we have one that still needs tweaking. I've been trying to make my Pike work as a Bomber buster with EMP missiles and ProTorps, but EMP just doesn't do enough to justify the moniker (I'll probably take it to the top to get the ship mastered, but then go clusters or concussions with the ProTorps until it gets better). It's a long lock for too little effect. I'm okay with the damage being relatively low on players if it actually took out mines, drones, etc., effectively.