Kaedusz Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 They had a blog on StarWars.com about this, I'll try and find it. well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarcen Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 More I think I about it, Luke and Vader should not have been fighting, they should have been fighting the emperor. Vader wanted to take the emperor down anyway. Remember when Sidious taunted Luke to strike him down with his lightsaber and Luke loses it and goes in for the kill only to be thwarted by Vader. What should have happened is when Vader watches Luke go for it he should not have blocked the blow, but used his own lightsaber to run Sidious through. He would never have seen it coming either, he had that utmost confidence Vader would not betray him, obviously he was wrong. Vader is a fool to. He tells Luke his grand plan to destroy the emperor and rule the galaxy as father and son yet when a perfect opportunity presents itself he blows it. This is actually what Palpatine hoped for; he wanted either Luke or both Luke and Vader to take him down and thus complete Luke's fall to the Dark Side. Vader blocking it, IMO, shows that he is aware of that path and doesn't want a repeat of his mistake years ago--to do Palpatine's bidding. Palpatine is not totally in control of Vader at that point, as Vader was already feeling mixed emotions and considerations of returning to the Light (this can be seen earlier, in the talk between Vader and Luke on Endor after Luke's capture). Had Vader not blocked Luke's strike, it would have been Luke's fall, and the Rebellion would have also ended with that strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarknessInLight Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 The other day I watched the original trilogy after many many years. I enjoyed them a great deal, but now that I am a little older I tend to look more between the lines. With that said I'll get on with my argument. Why in God's name did Luke toss his lightsaber while the Emperor was goading him to strike Vader down, and take Vader's place as his new apprentice? I cannot see the logic in Luke's decision to say "Never. I'll never turn to the Dark Side. You've failed, your highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me" Because he didn't take my advice. Didn't I tell you not to trust anybody, Doctor Jones?! All joking aside, the one he didn't listen to was Yoda who warned him in ROTJ: Luke, don't underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate, you will..... Luke assumed(BIG mistake) that the Emperor was some old man and no threat to him. He probably had no clue that he was dealing with the REAL Dark Lord of the Sith. Luke was lucky that all he used on him was Force Lightning......if Darth Sidious had drawn his lightsaber(assuming he still had the one from ROTS), Luke would have been killed instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Because he didn't take my advice. Didn't I tell you not to trust anybody, Doctor Jones?! All joking aside, the one he didn't listen to was Yoda who warned him in ROTJ: Luke, don't underestimate the powers of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate, you will..... Luke assumed(BIG mistake) that the Emperor was some old man and no threat to him. He probably had no clue that he was dealing with the REAL Dark Lord of the Sith. Luke was lucky that all he used on him was Force Lightning......if Darth Sidious had drawn his lightsaber(assuming he still had the one from ROTS), Luke would have been killed instantly. Did you seriously just write that? I mean, feel free to interpret a fictional universe as you may but if you're trying to go with a logical answer that fits the story of the movies then this is a pretty dumb answer. (the answer, not you ) Guys it is quite simple, and has been posted numerous times but here it goes. Luke's mission was not about surviving, or killing the Emperor himself, or becoming Sidious's apprentice etc... It was a sacrificial act meant to try and convince his father to turn back to the light hence as well as (to a lesser degree) keep Sidious on the station so that they can all die when the Rebels blow up the Death Star, hence . Even while being shocked by Sidious, he is playing towards his initial goal in this scene. He is very aware that an under-trained jedi is no match for two of the most powerful Sith ever, and so his plan revolves around the Rebellion (note he only leaves when the attack is about to begin) and Vader (his father) helping him. I'll also point out that its pretty stupid for Luke to have faced Vader and lost and just assume that Sidious (the guy who keeps him on a leash) is somehow a feeble old man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
errant_knight Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 OP, you're basically saying that Luke was a fool because he didn't turn into a sith to ensure his own survival. With that as a guiding principle, all jedi are fools and you're looking at the choice from a sith perspective, not an unbiased one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARTHOSIRUS Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) OP, you're basically saying that Luke was a fool because he didn't turn into a sith to ensure his own survival. With that as a guiding principle, all jedi are fools and you're looking at the choice from a sith perspective, not an unbiased one. Wow this is an old thread. At the time I thought it was silly to just throw his lightsaber away. If he wanted to sacrifice himself at least go out with a fight. That sounds better then throwing your weapon away in the hopes your corrupted father was willing or even capable of saving you. Joining the emperor would have been his best chance of survival at the time, but I suppose he had a vision through the force that his play would turn out a positive outcome. That is the only way I can justify his decision. No Not all jedi are fools, and not all jedi were in the predicament Luke was in. Edited January 14, 2015 by DARTHOSIRUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wow this is an old thread. At the time I thought it was silly to just throw his lightsaber away. If he wanted to sacrifice himself at least go out with a fight. That sounds better then throwing your weapon away in the hopes your corrupted father was willing or even capable of saving you. Joining the emperor would have been his best chance of survival at the time, but I suppose he had a vision through the force that his play would turn out a positive outcome. That is the only way I can justify his decision. No Not all jedi are fools, and not all jedi were in the predicament Luke was in. No...his entire point was this... Crap Vader and the Emperor are here... so they know I am here... we need to Destroy this station...or the rebellion fails and everyone I care about dies. Okay.. crap...I need to go so Dad takes me to the Emperor, I will then do everything I can to distract and delay because if Vader goes planet side the mission is screwed. Okay... Dad pissed me off with the comment about Leia...time to kick ***. Crap... We are all going to die but damn it if I am going to die when this Station gets blowed up real good I am going to die a Jedi and not a Sith. See that is the problem.... not being able to accept that people will sacrifice even their own life on principle. That they are willing to die, defenseless, in essence by their own hand, to remain true to the ideals they face. Believe it or not people have done and DO this irl. They are called heroes. The soldier that jumps onto a hand grenade so the squad doesn't get hit (has happened irl). The person who runs out under withering fire to pull back and injured comrade (it has happened). You don't have to be a fool to do this... you only need to be able to believe in something and then say "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one... knowing you are THE one." The fact you would say Luke was a fool to do what he did actually bothers the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I only agree luke was an idiot for throwing his Lightsaber away. Good god boy. just turn the silly thing off and say what you need to say. Smart jedi realize that you still need to defend yourself. He could of said all of that by just turning his blade off clipping it to his belt and saying the Emperor failed. Come on boy some common sense with the heroics goes a long way. But considering he was barely a Knight, he probably had no clue how to deflect force lighting to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DARTHOSIRUS Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) No...his entire point was this... Crap Vader and the Emperor are here... so they know I am here... we need to Destroy this station...or the rebellion fails and everyone I care about dies. Okay.. crap...I need to go so Dad takes me to the Emperor, I will then do everything I can to distract and delay because if Vader goes planet side the mission is screwed. Okay... Dad pissed me off with the comment about Leia...time to kick ***. Crap... We are all going to die but damn it if I am going to die when this Station gets blowed up real good I am going to die a Jedi and not a Sith. See that is the problem.... not being able to accept that people will sacrifice even their own life on principle. That they are willing to die, defenseless, in essence by their own hand, to remain true to the ideals they face. Believe it or not people have done and DO this irl. They are called heroes. The soldier that jumps onto a hand grenade so the squad doesn't get hit (has happened irl). The person who runs out under withering fire to pull back and injured comrade (it has happened). You don't have to be a fool to do this... you only need to be able to believe in something and then say "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one... knowing you are THE one." The fact you would say Luke was a fool to do what he did actually bothers the hell out of me. Lol....I guess whatever I supposedly said about this fictional character really bothers you it seems. Luke may have had a noble goal, but it was a real longshot. Edited January 18, 2015 by DARTHOSIRUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikWesten Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'll just say that in the Star Wars universe, the light & dark sides of the force are something that we, as beings outside of the movie realm & with no access to these fictional powers, could not truly comprehend. It could be that Luke, with his ability to access & control the force, has been able to sense something that made him understand why the dark side should be avoided at all costs. For this reason, he behaved the way he did when confronted by both Darth Vader & the Emperor. By all accounts, to us as viewers, when compared to our reality & what we are used to, it seems that his behaviour was ridiculous & unacceptable. But clearly there is far more going on here, that must be considered. It is for this reason that I choose to simply accept how he behaved & move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZetaZoran Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Palpatine was the fool because his arrogance caused him to lose that battle, the 2nd Death Star as well as his life (more or less). Palpatine could of killed the whole rebel fleet with his force storm and seeing the death of the rebels would of set Luke off and he would of either killed his own father and then attempt to kill Palpatine and either force to submit or die. Then I would use the Death Star to destroy the forest moon of Endor and wipe out the remaining rebels. Overkill you say? Not really. If you sent bucket heads down there they would of let them escape one way or another so by blowing up the moon he would of secured 100% victory. The only way this would of went bad is if Vader teamed up with Luke to take out Palpatine and rule the universe as Father and Son. Even then there chance at winning would be about 50% at best because they may have the power but Luke did not have the skills. As far as Luke goes he was just lucky. He saw the good in his Father and his near death experience thanks to force lighting brought it to the surface. I really don't think he had a plan to win, just one of those moments of I will let the force guide me and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Lol....I guess whatever I supposedly said about this fictional character really bothers you it seems. Luke may have had a noble goal, but it was a real longshot. No it wasn't seen as a long shot and that is what you miss. The soldier who jumps on the grenade expects to die. Luke expected to die. He had no thought of escaping. The entire point of Luke in that movie was that he is the very definition of a hero in mythic terms. While it turned out differently when he turned himself over to his father he said "I will probably die here." When he saw the Emperor he said "I know I will die here." He did it anyway because even if he did die...the rebellion would then succeed. Star Wars is not about the modern concept of the anti-hero who will survive by any means and still take out the bad guy... or the champion who keeps the extra gizmo hidden in his utility belt to pull out at the last moment. Star Wars is about myth. Perseus and Theseus. Arthur and Lancelot. The mythic heroes who went into the labyrinth thinking "I will probably die here but if I don't at least try evil definitely wins" kinda thing. It is about something that we once looked up to but now too often call "corny" with all the Wolverines, Punishers etc running around (I like both of those characters btw.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSStember Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Also, before that moment (when he throws his lightsabre away) he has no clue about Force Lightning. He's never seen it used before. All he's seen of Jedi/Sith combat was lightsabre duels and TKing objects with the Force. Not long before when the Emperor was baiting Luke to strike him down, he professed "I am defenseless", and when Luke did try to strike him, Vader interceded. Of course, Yoda did warn him not to underestimate the Emperor's powers, but we all knew how good Luke was at listening to Yoda's advise A better warning would have been, "Luke, the Emperor doesn't need a lightsabre cause he'll fry you with Force Lightning if you don't keep your lightsabre ready to deflect it!" Now *that* would have been a useful warning that Yoda knew full well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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