skarlson Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 But my precious green red dye which will never come out isn't hideous! Yes...it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 With mix ethics with capitalism, that is just plain stupid. Ethics are part of an Individual moral choices, the system is beyond the individuals in most cases, ethics are universal, political systems are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Executive compensation is usually enormously inflated when quoted due to stock options and the like. The most exorbitant quotes usually have actual cash as only a fraction of the value. There are other issues with using stock options as incentives, but mathematically, executive compensation is usually not the root cause of rising expenses. Stock options? LOL. It's still money at the end of the day. Bill Gates is still a billionaire, right? Not that I think he in particular is a problem because unlike most modern executives, he made a lot, lot, lot of people millionaires on the way. They don't do that any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Stock options? LOL. It's still money at the end of the day. Bill Gates is still a billionaire, right? Not that I think he in particular is a problem because unlike most modern executives, he made a lot, lot, lot of people millionaires on the way. They don't do that any more. Are you thinking of actual stock? Because stock options are not money at the end of the day. You have to buy them before you can sell them. And selling them is only worthwhile if the stock value goes up enough cover your fees and taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Yes...it is. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Attetion guys, I played the game to lvl 55 jedi and really the game is wrong, dull to be good in most options. the game is wrong, unethical dont play it. Voracious attitude is good, but you guys nail it its Czerca all over this, trying to make their mascot, they should know better, check your instict on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rklontz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I ask the question without writing an article on it - and might revisit it at a later date with a real article. But this is thrown to your discussion. it scentres on the Cartel market. On the surface, it would seem CM is not a bad thing at all, because any item purchaseable on it is also on the GTN - so it seems to work well because there are a players buying off the CM and selling on the GTN no foul right? Here is what Dawginole responded on the matter Do you believe that this level of exploitation is happening? if you do, should you in good conscious be playing this game at all? I mean this is kinda serious, and i know the temptation woudl be to find everyway not to believe this and brush it under the carpet, but, I'm really wondering, if it is ethically right to play this game if this is what is been done? Whiles BW might be ethically integruous and not exploit it like that, is there anyway we would know? Is it important for you to know??? I would say it is, and whiles I can't make a decision on what I don't know, do I trust EA like that? believe that htey wouldn't? hmmm.... what do you think? It isn't un ethical at all. One does not need to purchase anything from the CM or the GTN to play this game. Now lets put a different twist onto the subject. If Bioware can manipulate the GTN and in game currency to some extent via the CM should they be obligated to? It will help control server economies and take in game currency out of circulation. They do this to some extent with repair and stim prices already. Edited March 22, 2014 by rklontz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Its unethical, you not even thinking right. Credits, CM doesn matter we are talking ethics, your ethics. This game is mind control via voice-over Edited March 22, 2014 by ZahirS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomXChance Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Are you thinking of actual stock? Because stock options are not money at the end of the day. You have to buy them before you can sell them. And selling them is only worthwhile if the stock value goes up enough cover your fees and taxes. It is when the board OK's the stock options being backdated to a time guaranteed to give the person a profit at today's price. As has happened many times. To the topic: So, we are discussing the ethics of purchasing virtual vanity items with virtual money and the game companies place in determining the availability of said items? I really hope your next attempt at attacking is better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feasting Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) OP, not really EAware has shafted a lot of its players including the hardcore and competitive community and subscribers because of F2P. If you really think about it, it isn't. This game may be making loads of cash at the moment but its quality is pretty much worse than what it was after launch. Edited March 22, 2014 by Feasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrintoSFJ Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 1,3 and 4 can be unlocked for a one-time cost and can be found for a reasonable amount of IG currency. If you spend the $5 to get to Preferred status you automatically get 4 bars which is "good enough". There's no unlock for 2 and I'd agree with you except those boxes tend to contain vendor trash (stuff that won't sell on the GTN). Now if you're looking for a cause, the monetized med-probes is pretty slimy IMO. Why do those things ethically bother you? People who aren't paying for the sub, the vast majority of them, choose not to pay for the sub. Almost anyone with a computer and internet connection capable of playing this game can find a way to come up with the subscription fee. They just don't want to. It's their choice. So they're choosing to play with restrictions that they know exist when they make that choice. For the very tiny minority who somehow has a computer and internet connection capable of playing this game but absolutely cannot manage to find an extra $15 per month, they're still choosing to play the game, without paying a dime, knowing full well the restrictions the game will place upon them. So you have individual choice upon individual choice upon individual choice, all of which boil down to playing a game. There is no lack of ethics or ethical dilemma anywhere within that whole stack of stuff. There are no victims. Nobody is being taken advantage of. Nobody is being harmed. Everyone is choosing to do exactly what they want and could at a moment's notice make a different choice. These are simple UI options which are standard in mmorpg, even browser based mmorpg these days come out with 6-10 quickbar; a lot of achievement title and not to mention lots of head slot items and they never monetize these simple UI options. monetizing these options is just plain nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantazm Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 OP, not really EAware has shafted a lot of its players including the hardcore and competitive community and subscribers because of F2P. If you really think about it, it isn't. This game may be making loads of cash at the moment but its quality is pretty much worse than what it was after launch. As the image says......... U wot m8?? How can this game be worse than it was at launch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwnerJord Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 OP, not really EAware has shafted a lot of its players including the hardcore and competitive community and subscribers because of F2P. If you really think about it, it isn't. This game may be making loads of cash at the moment but its quality is pretty much worse than what it was after launch. Adding content makes it worse then what it was at launch? My head man, my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyfy Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I have no problem with CM prices, not at all. i don't like gambling packs at all, that is why i will never buy them but if someone wants to then that doesn't bother me and that should not bother me no matter how dishonest this gambling pack business seems to me. And also Bioware is not the 1st publisher/developer group to manipulate their own game's economy and frankly i don't see anything wrong with it, it is better than the gold seller controlling economy like other f2p mmorpg out in market. But if you want to talk about ethics in playing swtor then there are some f2p restrictions that really bother me, i mentioned them in other threads too : 1. paying for quickbar 2. paying to accept quest items 3. paying for hide/show helmet option 3. paying for show/hide title and/or legacy name option These are the things that ethically bothers me, these are simple UI options which are standard in mmorpg, even browser based mmorpg these days come out with 6-10 quickbar; a lot of achievement title and not to mention lots of head slot items and they never monetize these simple UI options. monetizing these options is just plain nasty. Paying to accept quest items? What? Or is that a rather disingenuous spin on the F2P restriction on using artifact quality items? Edited March 22, 2014 by Hyfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Take a look at Hobbit: Kingdoms of Middle Earth. A game for smart phones & tablets. Completely pay to win.You pay a lot of money to obtain 1 or more max level heroes or permanent city attack or health buffs. You buy these items so that you will lose less than the person you fight against. But Kabam can raise the cap anytime they feel like it and completely devalue your heroes and city, and force you to spend more to remain competitive. Pretty much nobody will fight unless they have max levels. The top players spend hundreds of dollars a month on some crap game. Now compare SWTOR and cry me a river about how they lower the price of some fluff items after they have been out awhile. You paid more because you got the item 1st. It didn't give you an advantage over another player, just some bragging rights for awhile. You should have known all along that a price drop would come at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I have no problem with CM prices, not at all. i don't like gambling packs at all, that is why i will never buy them but if someone wants to then that doesn't bother me and that should not bother me no matter how dishonest this gambling pack business seems to me. And also Bioware is not the 1st publisher/developer group to manipulate their own game's economy and frankly i don't see anything wrong with it, it is better than the gold seller controlling economy like other f2p mmorpg out in market. But if you want to talk about ethics in playing swtor then there are some f2p restrictions that really bother me, i mentioned them in other threads too : 1. paying for quickbar 2. paying to accept quest items 3. paying for hide/show helmet option 3. paying for show/hide title and/or legacy name option These are the things that ethically bothers me, these are simple UI options which are standard in mmorpg, even browser based mmorpg these days come out with 6-10 quickbar; a lot of achievement title and not to mention lots of head slot items and they never monetize these simple UI options. monetizing these options is just plain nasty. Greedy? Yes. Overrestrictive? Yes. Unethical? Hardly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It is when the board OK's the stock options being backdated to a time guaranteed to give the person a profit at today's price. As has happened many times. Not done anymore. Why? Because too many corporations and corporate suits got droid_slapped by the Feds for doing it. What they do now days is heap you with piles of restricted stock options, which give you the same advantages as the recipient as repricing really. Restricted stock options are great retention incentive, as they are never under. The only downside is they incur a tax liability when they vest (rather then when you exercise them, like traditional stock options. Personally, while I made truck loads off of stock options over the years, I made more actually with very preferential pricing on ESPP shares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 it scentres on the Cartel market. On the surface, it would seem CM is not a bad thing at all, because any item purchaseable on it is also on the GTN - so it seems to work well because there are a players buying off the CM and selling on the GTN no foul right? Here is what Dawginole responded on the matter The CM would suck if everything was bind on acquire, like it is for most MMOs. The fact all CM content can effectively be traded between players though.... that represents an innovation in the genre, and a good one IMO. It's good system, contained with the framework of a flexible access model. Flexible access models are here to stay in the genre, so it's nice IMO to see a company take a much more open player control approach to content use with the game. Sure... people are going to continue to get all worked up about the CM... but it really is a nontroversy, NOT a controversy at this point in time. We've been running successful on this approach for more then a year now, and with generally favorable results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feasting Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Adding content makes it worse then what it was at launch? My head man, my head. Adding content?! The pvp playerbase would certainly love to have a word with you about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 My bad, think the game is ethical the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Adding content?! The pvp playerbase would certainly love to have a word with you about that Seriously? Are you trying to say that no new PvP content has been added since launch? Good luck with that argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feasting Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Seriously? Are you trying to say that no new PvP content has been added since launch? Good luck with that argument... Actually more pvp content has been removed than added. And no Galactic Starfighter does not count as PvP. Don't believe me? Ask the PvP forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) These are simple UI options which are standard in mmorpg, even browser based mmorpg these days come out with 6-10 quickbar; a lot of achievement title and not to mention lots of head slot items and they never monetize these simple UI options. monetizing these options is just plain nasty. Yet you never addressed the crux of the post you quoted. Everyone playing this game is doing so by their choice. The overwhelming majority of those playing for free are doing so because they choose not to reward the developers for their hard work... not because they are incapable of doing it. And they make that choice knowing full well the differences in features and functionality between paying 50 cents a day and not paying 50 cents a day. Playing for free, they get a far cry more than they pay for. Yet you cry for them? Come on. Try walking into a Chevy dealer and asking them if you can drive their lowest end model for free for a year or two. Manual transmission, manual windows, no A/C. Even if you can find that car, I bet they won't let you do it. Then again, if somehow they do let you do it, you would complain about having to shift gears, being hot in the summer, and having to put gas into it, amirite? Edited March 24, 2014 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Actually more pvp content has been removed than added. And no Galactic Starfighter does not count as PvP. Don't believe me? Ask the PvP forums. Proof? Because I have only seen additions. And while the minority of people who only partake in ground PvP may not see GSF as being an example of their game play, the simple fact that there are no NPC's in GSF make it PvP by any definition...with the exception of yours, apparently. PvP is a minor part of this game, just like crafting. The sooner the PvP only crowd accepts that reality, the better off everyone will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Proof? Because I have only seen additions. And while the minority of people who only partake in ground PvP may not see GSF as being an example of their game play, the simple fact that there are no NPC's in GSF make it PvP by any definition...with the exception of yours, apparently. PvP is a minor part of this game, just like crafting. The sooner the PvP only crowd accepts that reality, the better off everyone will be. Check the phrasing and the creation date and the attitude. He survived the weekend but will be only a bad memory soon, and yet another account tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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