No knockout for Sentinel/Marauder?

[Arthin]

I just noticed this while playing my Jedi sentinel: Sentinels/Marauders are the ONLY class in the game that does not have an ability that knocks out any strength enemy for 4 seconds. Only the guardian/juggernaut has this ability on the Knight class. Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Sentinels are the only class that lacks this highly useful ability?

[Othed]

We have other useful utility. We don't really need it.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Well, you have 2 abilities that are CC related.

 

Awe: AOE 6 Second CC that is broken on damage, it's a raw Knight ability, but isnt too great.

 

Force Stasis: 3 second Channeled CC that deals damage. Again Raw Knight ability, works well for Tank Guardians, otherwise you have no real use for Force Stasis.

[Juithtin]

Guardian's only get that if they run tank specc

[Vodrin]

I just noticed this while playing my Jedi sentinel: Sentinels/Marauders are the ONLY class in the game that does not have an ability that knocks out any strength enemy for 4 seconds. Only the guardian/juggernaut has this ability on the Knight class. Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Sentinels are the only class that lacks this highly useful ability?

 

They would be extremely overpowered if they had a hard stun/knockdown. No other class has their combination of mobility, damage output, and defensive cooldowns.

 

Well, you have 2 abilities that are CC related.

 

Awe: AOE 6 Second CC that is broken on damage, it's a raw Knight ability, but isnt too great.

 

Force Stasis: 3 second Channeled CC that deals damage. Again Raw Knight ability, works well for Tank Guardians, otherwise you have no real use for Force Stasis.

 

Assessment is mostly accurate for PvE and dead wrong for PvP. Awe is amazingly good in PvP, and force stasis is effective but not overwhelmingly good.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Vodrin

[Atlanis]

They would be extremely overpowered if they had a hard stun/knockdown. No other class has their combination of mobility, damage output, and defensive cooldowns.

 

Again a Bad Player with no real intel on the Sentinel. We got in comparison with all other classes the worst survivability and DPS as of 2.7. for PvP Terms. Anyone tried to play a Sent in that new Hutball on the PTS, never bring a knife without a stealthcloak to a turret war. In PvP you still will see Sents as of 2.7. but only those who don´t want to play another class just because the DEVs want to kill the Sentinel Class for good. Devs play Range DDs an Stealthers, no Dev playing a Sent or Guardian DPS so they will nerf the classes they ar to stupid to handle. Even they tend to group for the Smash like 100% of all Non-Sentinels. Smash gets nerfed because people are stupid, not because it is overpowered.

 

This is fact Looking at the majority of the sent population not at us 10% who stand above everybody not only the other 90% of the Sents. PvE Wise only the top 10% are able to stay ahead of the other specs and only because of the strong hybrid.

[GrandLordMenace]

Again a Bad Player with no real intel on the Sentinel. We got in comparison with all other classes the worst survivability and DPS as of 2.7. for PvP Terms. Anyone tried to play a Sent in that new Hutball on the PTS, never bring a knife without a stealthcloak to a turret war. In PvP you still will see Sents as of 2.7. but only those who don´t want to play another class just because the DEVs want to kill the Sentinel Class for good. Devs play Range DDs an Stealthers, no Dev playing a Sent or Guardian DPS so they will nerf the classes they ar to stupid to handle. Even they tend to group for the Smash like 100% of all Non-Sentinels. Smash gets nerfed because people are stupid, not because it is overpowered.

 

This is fact Looking at the majority of the sent population not at us 10% who stand above everybody not only the other 90% of the Sents. PvE Wise only the top 10% are able to stay ahead of the other specs and only because of the strong hybrid.

 

Oh stop whining. Sentinels have the most potent short cooldown PVP DCD in the entire game. Who the **** else can have a DCD that lasts for 30 seconds? SENTINELS.

 

Who has the ability to prolong his life even after you are on your last vestiges of life to stop a nodecap? SENTINELS.

 

Who has a Healing Debuff? SENTINELS.

 

Who has a raid and group wide speedboost? SENTINELS

 

Who has raidwide damage increaser? SENTINELS.

 

Who has an undetectable Stealth that is probably one of the best escapes in the game? SENTINELS.

 

The fact is that Sentinel DPS in PVP is fine if you are playing combat in 2.7, if you play Watchman, yes you are a squishy mother****ing fella, but in Combat.... dat burst yo. And focus... is a cluster**** in 2.7 don't even talk about it.

 

and in PVE, I can guarantee you the only reason why Sentinel's play dotsmash so much is because it's a higher dps spec! Without dotsmash it would become apparent that Sentinels are right where they should be on both Watchman and combat, neck and neck with DF scoundrel, Vigilance Guardian. Watchman could use the slightest nudge upward due to range constriction and being a sustained dps class, but to be honest I think combat just needs more stabilization and to be edged downward since Vigilance Guardian is ALSO a sustained dps spec with far more range constriction due to being fully reliant on a Melee channel.

 

Do Sentinels have problems? Heck yeah you betcha, but are they the absolute frickin end of the world (except for Watchman viability in PVP and Fpo), NO. You have RNG issues, sure, PS is really hard to apply in PVP, but hey, there are more people in line waiting for the buffy bat then you, and some have been there for too long.

 

There are more classes that need buffs in PVE and PVP (Infiltration Shadows have been the worst dps spec in this game for PVE for SEVEN PATCHES in a ROW as a SINGLE TARGET SPEC.)

 

Worst survivability my ***, ever try to play a Sage against a Vigilance Guardian on live right now? Go. Try it. then complain about your sent's survivability.

Edited March 21, 2014 by GrandLordMenace

[kronichabit]

Not having force push for any jedi/sith class is beyond me

[kronichabit]

Oh stop whining. Sentinels have the most potent short cooldown PVP DCD in the entire game. Who the **** else can have a DCD that lasts for 30 seconds? SENTINELS.

 

Who has the ability to prolong his life even after you are on your last vestiges of life to stop a nodecap? SENTINELS.

 

Who has a Healing Debuff? SENTINELS.

 

Who has a raid and group wide speedboost? SENTINELS

 

Who has raidwide damage increaser? SENTINELS.

 

Who has an undetectable Stealth that is probably one of the best escapes in the game? SENTINELS.

 

The fact is that Sentinel DPS in PVP is fine if you are playing combat in 2.7, if you play Watchman, yes you are a squishy mother****ing fella, but in Combat.... dat burst yo. And focus... is a cluster**** in 2.7 don't even talk about it.

 

and in PVE, I can guarantee you the only reason why Sentinel's play dotsmash so much is because it's a higher dps spec! Without dotsmash it would become apparent that Sentinels are right where they should be on both Watchman and combat, neck and neck with DF scoundrel, Vigilance Guardian. Watchman could use the slightest nudge upward due to range constriction and being a sustained dps class, but to be honest I think combat just needs more stabilization and to be edged downward since Vigilance Guardian is ALSO a sustained dps spec with far more range constriction due to being fully reliant on a Melee channel.

 

Do Sentinels have problems? Heck yeah you betcha, but are they the absolute frickin end of the world (except for Watchman viability in PVP and Fpo), NO. You have RNG issues, sure, PS is really hard to apply in PVP, but hey, there are more people in line waiting for the buffy bat then you, and some have been there for too long.

 

There are more classes that need buffs in PVE and PVP (Infiltration Shadows have been the worst dps spec in this game for PVE for SEVEN PATCHES in a ROW as a SINGLE TARGET SPEC.)

 

Worst survivability my ***, ever try to play a Sage against a Vigilance Guardian on live right now? Go. Try it. then complain about your sent's survivability.

 

Give it a rest please..whining has got to stop.... Newbs killed the spec and the DEVS. I play all classe in pvp and let me say I'm tired of people who cant kite the sweep/smash whining

[jack__]

Give it a rest please..whining has got to stop.... Newbs killed the spec and the DEVS. I play all classe in pvp and let me say I'm tired of people who cant kite the sweep/smash whining

 

Smash sentinels are the hardest class to kite in he entire game. If you are kiting a shasher, then they either have no abilities up, or they are just bad. And 90% of the time, they will have something available.

[Vodrin]

Again a Bad Player with no real intel on the Sentinel. We got in comparison with all other classes the worst survivability and DPS as of 2.7. for PvP Terms. Anyone tried to play a Sent in that new Hutball on the PTS, never bring a knife without a stealthcloak to a turret war. In PvP you still will see Sents as of 2.7. but only those who don´t want to play another class just because the DEVs want to kill the Sentinel Class for good. Devs play Range DDs an Stealthers, no Dev playing a Sent or Guardian DPS so they will nerf the classes they ar to stupid to handle. Even they tend to group for the Smash like 100% of all Non-Sentinels. Smash gets nerfed because people are stupid, not because it is overpowered.

 

This is fact Looking at the majority of the sent population not at us 10% who stand above everybody not only the other 90% of the Sents. PvE Wise only the top 10% are able to stay ahead of the other specs and only because of the strong hybrid.

 

Well I disagree with you on PvP viability of the class. I have mained a combat sent since early access, and I spent some time on the PTS during this last testing cycle. The new map is definitely more ranged friendly, and ranged classes are getting buffed, but combat is still a very strong PvP spec when played well, and I was even having some success with a crazy watchman build.

 

Giving this class a hard stun would make it ridiculous for strong players and that is not a way to go. Incidentally I do agree that the focus nerf was a bit over the top, and they need to introduce some buffs for other single target abilities for the spec to really shine again in PvP.

[Ramtar]

Well I disagree with you on PvP viability of the class. I have mained a combat sent since early access, and I spent some time on the PTS during this last testing cycle. The new map is definitely more ranged friendly, and ranged classes are getting buffed, but combat is still a very strong PvP spec when played well, and I was even having some success with a crazy watchman build.

 

Giving this class a hard stun would make it ridiculous for strong players and that is not a way to go. Incidentally I do agree that the focus nerf was a bit over the top, and they need to introduce some buffs for other single target abilities for the spec to really shine again in PvP.

 

Sentinels' hard stun (Disable Droid) is worthless in PvP and PvE against no Droid NPCs. Reworking Disable Droid to work against players in PvP and PvE NPCs will level the playing field.

[chillshock]

Tank-Spec (the one with the stun(s)) are for tanking and disabling an enemy.

 

Marauder/Sentinel: Not a tank. All about wrecking face.

 

Conclusion: Different Class, different role, different spec... plays with different skills. All good.

 

It would suck if all classes would get the same abilities on the same cooldowns with same effects and just different names.

[Vodrin]

Sentinels' hard stun (Disable Droid) is worthless in PvP and PvE against no Droid NPCs. Reworking Disable Droid to work against players in PvP and PvE NPCs will level the playing field.

 

No it won't. It will make any reasonably skilled combat sent vastly overpowered. Please don't ask for things that will get my favorite AC nerfed hard.

[Ramtar]

No it won't. It will make any reasonably skilled combat sent vastly overpowered. Please don't ask for things that will get my favorite AC nerfed hard.

 

What about Watchman or Focus players that will benefit? How do you know there will be a nerf?

 

Disable Droid is our long range stun that is worthless in PvP and in PvE against non droid NPCs: Period.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Ramtar

[Cavell]

What about Watchman or Focus players that will benefit? How do you know there will be a nerf?

Because Combat Sentinels/Carnage Marauders with a hard stun would be unstoppable when they had their cooldowns up.

 

I don't know how in how many different threads people need to make the same point to you until you get it, but I suppose we'll try one more time: Combat/Carnage is in an extremely good spot right now, provided you know how to play it and play it well. If you don't, it's going to seem weak, and no amount of CC will fix that. It does not need hard CC.

 

No one will play Focus after 2.7 for PVP, and nobody plays Watchman for PVP already. Combat's the PVP tree.

[Ramtar]

Because Combat Sentinels/Carnage Marauders with a hard stun would be unstoppable when they had their cooldowns up.

 

I don't know how in how many different threads people need to make the same point to you until you get it, but I suppose we'll try one more time: Combat/Carnage is in an extremely good spot right now, provided you know how to play it and play it well. If you don't, it's going to seem weak, and no amount of CC will fix that. It does not need hard CC.

 

No one will play Focus after 2.7 for PVP, and nobody plays Watchman for PVP already. Combat's the PVP tree.

 

Combat/Carnage can be shut down with CCs and reducing the time period to use Precision: 1 timed Force Kick or Force Choke can do that.

 

How do you know Combat/Carnage will be the selected PvP tree? Giving a hard stun could, in fact, give Watchman or Focus players the time to ramp up damage.

 

Guess you and many forgot to read the last part of TaitWatson post concerning 2.7 changes: "These adjustments are still subject to change, and we will continue to review how this affects gameplay, but we wanted to let you know what was coming up in 2.7".

 

Base damage and number of targets effect by Force Sweep isn't being change. Force Sweep will still stop a cap. Rule 1 in PvP is to Focus Fire on a specific target: 2-3 Force Sweep after 2.7 on 1 Primary target will still drop it like a rock.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

What about Watchman or Focus players that will benefit? How do you know there will be a nerf?

 

Disable Droid is our long range stun that is worthless in PvP and in PvE against non droid NPCs: Period.

 

Because any respectable combat player will do things to opposing players that will result in epic QQ if you give combat an instant, long duration hard stun. You do realize that disable droid is also a terrible ability to have enabled for PvP as it is a slow cast mez (not a stun). All other similar abilities (force lift is a good example) are reduced to 6 second duration in PvP and are broken by damage. If you want to see how effective this is just play a shadow and try force lifting with regularity and see how often you are interrupted and how often it is broken by a team mates damage.

 

So basically, disable droid would be nearly useless in PvP and would simply introduce another needless CC to the game, and introducing something like force stun (which is what you really want) would be extremely overpowered for all non-flawed sentinel specs.

 

Really all that is needed is to give watchman spec a way to ramp up their stacks faster and introducing a mechanism for giving focus spec better single target sustained damage. Do both of these things and every sentinel spec is fine in PvP. I've also talked about converting precision slash into a buff with charges instead of a short duration to give some CC protection, but I really don't think that is necessary. I kind of like the fact that the spec requires more situational awareness than the other sent specs to use well.

[Cavell]

Combat/Carnage can be shut down with CCs and reducing the time period to use Precision: 1 timed Force Kick or Force Choke can do that.

And that's bad? So, what, you want a spec that can't be shut down by anything? That's not how the game works. Games that work like that suck.

 

Carnage has basically one counter: CC during the Gore window. That's it. Everything needs a weakness.

 

How do you know Combat/Carnage will be the selected PvP tree? Giving a hard stun could, in fact, give Watchman or Focus players the time to ramp up damage.

Because damage that ramps up is irrelevant in PVP. Burst wins in PVP. Vigilance/Vengeance has pretty good sustained damage, but the burst sucks, which is why it's not a rank-capable spec. Coldcocking a guy for four seconds isn't going to somehow translate DOT damage into burst. You don't need CC to apply Watchman DOTs now, for example, and the spec is sub-optimal in PVP.

[Ramtar]

And that's bad? So, what, you want a spec that can't be shut down by anything? That's not how the game works. Games that work like that suck.

 

Carnage has basically one counter: CC during the Gore window. That's it. Everything needs a weakness.

And that is what I said. Force Kick and Force Choke are CCs. CC has to work on other classes and your class' different trees.

 

Because damage that ramps up is irrelevant in PVP. Burst wins in PVP. Vigilance/Vengeance has pretty good sustained damage, but the burst sucks, which is why it's not a rank-capable spec. Coldcocking a guy for four seconds isn't going to somehow translate DOT damage into burst. You don't need CC to apply Watchman DOTs now, for example, and the spec is sub-optimal in PVP.

 

Burst damage is why classes get nerfed. Crying and whining begin when: People see the big damage numbers in the combat logs and listed at the end of the War Zone.

 

I'm saying using CCs to allow the DOTs to maximize: DOT them, CC them, Watch them burn.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Ramtar

[Tevzz]

And that is what I said. Force Kick and Force Choke are CC. CC has to work on other classes and your class' different trees.

 

 

 

Burst damage is why classes get nerfed. People see the big numbers listed at the end of the War Zone and start screaming.

 

I'm saying using CCs to allow the DOTs to maximize: DOT them, CC them, Watch them burn.

 

Force kick is NOT A CC! If you have dots ticking on a target and u CC them, IT BREAKS THE DAM CC! Get to know what the heck you're talking about.

[Ramtar]

Force kick is NOT A CC! If you have dots ticking on a target and u CC them, IT BREAKS THE DAM CC! Get to know what the heck you're talking about.

 

Wrong Force Kick is a CC which: refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other characters.

 

Force Kick: Kicks the target and interrupts its current action, preventing that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds. Since when did Force Kicking someone break the damage I placed on them?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Ramtar

[Tevzz]

Wrong Force Kick is a CC which: refer to abilities that influence or prevent the abilities or actions of other characters.

 

Force Kick: Kicks the target and interrupts its current action, preventing that ability from being used for the next 4 seconds.

 

That's only if the action is channeled and Ravage is immune to that, so you wont interrupt any Carnage burst with it. It only works against stuff like force lightning, tracer missile, casted heals etc. It doesn't CC the target -.-'' I know dam well what it does I use it on cooldown when focusing healers, so please. CCs are mezzes, that's what we call CCs

Edited April 5, 2014 by Tevzz

[Ramtar]

That's only if the action is channeled and Ravage is immune to that, so you wont interrupt any Carnage burst with it. It only works against stuff like force lightning, tracer missile, casted heals etc. It doesn't CC the target -.-'' I know dam well what it does I use it on cooldown when focusing healers, so please. CCs are mezzes, that's what we call CCs

 

Than there is a problem with Force Kick application. Force Kick should interrupt Carnage burst.

[Tevzz]

Than there is a problem with Force Kick application. Force Kick should interrupt Carnage burst.

 

No it shouldn't because Ravage specifically says that it is immune to interrupts The only thing it's useful for is to interrupt casted abilities and lock them for a few seconds.