Is the Pike Terrible or am I?

[jtrick]

Even after spending ~50k req on my Pike I still feel like it performs pretty badly. Against a half-decent team I probably do 2x better in a near-stock Star-Guard and 5x better in a near-stock Flashfire.

 

Now don't get me wrong, proton torpedoes are great for blowing the 12 year-olds who wanted to give GSF a try out of the sky, but the missile-centric build seems to be all but useless against a good team with some decent ships. A gunship can easily escape you, or if he wants- smack you down from a distance reliably (you have neither the agility nor the evasion of a scout). Trying to out-dogfight scouts is futile, and good luck using your missiles against their multiple missile breaks and excellent agility and speed.

 

The Pike seems good at taking out bombers on paper- but good luck getting your 4s proton lock on a bomber buzzing around a satellite, and if ever a decent bomber puts himself in an unsupported position in TDM to get protoned I can only assume it's because an errant Dorito has jammed his keyboard. Also, let's not forget that flying straight enough for 4s to keep a target in the narrow proton arc is just asking to eat an ion cannon, so even if you do have a shot, you better hope there are no gunships in 15000m.

 

So what is the Pike's niche exactly? Is there something I'm missing with it? Despite it being my favourite to fly, I no longer do if it's not an easy game because a good pilot/ship will just wreck it.

[Armadyil]

I prefer the Pike over the Star Guard, especially at high levels.

 

My build:

Quad Lasers

Conc Missiles

Proton Missiles

Quick-Charge Shield

Koio Turn

Missile Extender

Reinforced Armor

Regen Thruster

Damage Capacitator

Crew: Bypass

 

Imo, its not that different from a Star Guard, except that at higher levels, one type of lasers fits the bill nicely, especially if its a bread-and-butter laser like Quads, while 2 missiles is always a win: on different range, lock-on time and a resetted cooldown.

 

Id always take Concussion missiles, i think theyre the best. About your proton problem... if you really hate them, go run with clusters; great increase in close range dps. I like protons, because you can start locking from 11.5 km, firing it at approx 6 or 7k and then directly start locking a Conc for total mayhem. CHOOSE INCREASED SPEED AT T4!!!one!! Very important.

 

I didnt give the EMP and the Ion missiles a real chance, im hearing different stories about those. I can just say that the Pike isnt terrible (not saying you are either, as you said you did well in a Star Guard ), its a different (and imo slightly better) version of the Star Guard.

 

EDIT: totally forgot to mention: up to tier 3, protons are pretty useless indeed, youll love them after that point.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Armadyil

[jtrick]

I actually have both protons and concs fully upgraded.

 

I agree that protons can be great, but I feel like good pilots with good ships can avoid them so easily. It will probably be better in 2.7 with the nerf to engine abilities. I have thought about giving cluster/conc a try- but if I'm going to try to make close(ish) range my optimal range, I might as well go with the Star Guard I feel like.

[Itkovian]

The Pike is my main, and I assure you it is a wonderful machine.

 

I use the same build as the previous posted, except with Clusters instead of Concussions, and it is excellent, you just need to get the hang of it.

 

Firstly, proton torpedoes are excellent weapons, and I have deployed them successfully against all the top aces on Ebon Hawk server (regardless of their vehicle)... you just need to know when to employ them, and how to position yourself to best make use of them. And against bombers they are simply deadly, even when they are sat humping I can get locks off with little problem (just don't be chasing them, zoom out and get a lock from a distance). Against everyone else, wait for them to pop a missile break and start locking.

 

Also, keep in mind that in 2.7 missiles are getting a buff, in that most engine abilities are getting their cooldown drastically increased. You may even contemplate getting the higher protorp firing arc instead of the 100% speed for the protorp's T4 upgrade.

 

Really, I have almost _none_ of the problems you relate, and can take on basically any role without difficulty. The only challenge is skilled flashfire/sting pilots, and that is a simple function of these fighters being the best dogfighter in the game. The solution there is to not dogfight them one on one (at least not the good pilots, as you'll need some lucky rolls to win against their higher evasion, whereas they can just point and shoot), but in exchange you are _much_ better at handling bombers than they are.

 

To me it seems the Pike is one of those hidden GSF gems that people haven't discovered, and if more did Bombers probably wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[Armonddd]

I main a Flashfire. I'm slowly leveling my Pike, but I don't play it very much because any time I do, it feels like I'm suddenly playing hard mode -- inferior turning radius, inferior speed, inferior engine efficiency, inferior close range weaponry (probably my four favorite aspects of the Flash).

 

That said, Itkovian often beats me on damage. He's an amazing pilot and definitely has a deeper understanding of dogfighting than I do, since I can never hit with protons and my accuracy with quads is just awful.

 

Firstly, proton torpedoes are excellent weapons, and I have deployed them successfully against all the top aces on Ebon Hawk server (regardless of their vehicle)...

 

And he makes me sad every time this happens.

 

Keep at it. I don't know any tricks for flying the Pike -- if I did I'd offer them -- but the best way to learn them is through practice. The Pike can be a dangerous machine, it just seems to have a higher skill floor than any other ship in the game right now. And like Itk said, if more people knew how to use the Pike, bombers would be less of an issue.

[MaybeEvil]

I like my pike...it was a bit of a slow burn for enjoyment but after you get about to around the 50% mark in your upgrades things start to come together.

 

I've jumped around to a few different missile type combinations and I think finding the right balance with what you like is the key factor here. Lots of ways to experiment with this and that alone can be some fun.

[Verain]

I run Clusters and Proton torps on my Pike, and EMP and Concussion on my Quell. I've also tried with Ion and Cluster with some success.

 

It's a pretty good ship. Overall I think it's better than the Starguard.

 

 

I recommend the Cluster/Protorp build. Once you get double volley, get a munitions capacity expander OR a crew guy with extra missiles. Protorps take the extra speed. When you get a lock on someone, boost closer and launch.

[mandoforlife]

I fly the Quell as my main ship (Imp Pike equivilent), and I love it. My build is:

 

Heavy's

Cluster Missiles

Concussion Missiles

Quick-Charge Shield

Barrel Roll (I may switch to something else in 2.7)

Range Capacitor

Reinforced Armor

Munitions Extender

Speed Thrusters

 

I like to engage just at the edge of my range, around 7.2k. I start hitting the target with heavies while locking on with a Concussion Missile. Once they get in close, I'll hit them with clusters, then try and get some space between me and the target to try and get a Conc off on them again while hitting them with heavies. Quads would help me more when I have to get closer to the target, but I prefer to punch through their hull at range; it's just my personal playstyle. I feel that's one of the best things about the Pike/Quell, the missiles offer the most in weapon diversity in my opinion, and really change how you play depending on what missiles you take. It may be hard to get the hang of at first, but once you do, you'll do better than you ever had before.

Edited March 13, 2014 by mandoforlife

[QuadeThirtyEight]

I've just recently got back to the game after a 6 month absince and like playing GSF. Once I saw the pike I liked the look of it and that it had 2 missle options. Only got shields to T2 and armor to T3 so I still get owned alot. but all and all after playing the other ships I do like the Pike alot.

 

One question though. I knotice people like the "quick-charge shields" I've been useing the adjustable shilds(forgot the name). perfect for faceing gunships. just focus the shields double front and there first shot is completly waisted. though you do tend to end up with no shields quickly if you have lots of imps on you. And I have acedently left my *** uncovered and got real intiment with a missle with out protection

 

I wanted to ask something else but forgot the question and my break is up so off to work again

[QuadeThirtyEight]

damn double post Edited March 13, 2014 by QuadeThirtyEight

[Ramalina]

My build:

Quad Lasers

Conc Missiles

Proton Missiles

Quick-Charge Shield

Barrel Roll

Magazine Extender, additional ammo

Light armor (evasion)

Speed Thruster

Damage Capacitator

Crew: Hydrospanner

Passives: engine power and efficiency, evasion, missile buffs, random other crap I forget.

 

 

If you're going to run the Pike as a missile launch platform, and it's the only fighter in the game that lends itself to that playstyle, you really need a combination of upgrades and appropriate flying style to make it work.

 

Mastered or at least tier 4 missiles are pretty much a must have, no matter what combination of missiles you choose. It really does make a big difference.

 

Since I favor the longer range missiles, it's important for me to be at a range that's good for missile lock and launch. That means prioritizing mobility through boost. I want to be able to get 10.5 km from my target, even if it's not cooperating. I go for speed thrusters, because with the 3.2 multiplier, they actually get you more boost range than the other thruster options. My strategy is basically to stay on the fringes of the fight, and try to get Proton>Concussion shots one after another, taking advantage of the fact that the reload cooldowns are independent. In a pure standoff role, Heavy Lasers and Range Capacitors would be better, but I like having the option to fight at close range if something goes wrong, so I use Quads and Damage Capacitors instead.

 

Performance varies. If I'm not pressured much and keep good positioning it's not hard to rack up a lot of kills. There are tricks to help. For instance, pick a potential target that's under pressure from someone else, and don't start locking until they blow a missile break cooldown. Against green pilots, you can sometimes get a lock and then hold it instead of firing and they'll panic and use a cooldown. Then you lock them while they're defenseless. Another good trick is locking at max range and then boosting in to closer range before firing the missile. Works especially nicely with Proton Torpedoes. Skilled Gunship and Heavy Scout pilots will give you trouble, mostly because the common builds of those ships have two missile break cooldowns, and perfectly played you'll never have more than a 4 second window to lock, launch, and hit with a missile, or at least not until 2.7 comes out. Sometime you just have to accept the fact that the first missile will be defeated and settle for landing the second. Then, if it's safe to do so and they don't run into cover, keep pressure up and down them with a second pair of missiles.

 

If you're not so lucky, you get pressured and have a speed build Heavy Scout on you the whole match, or a Gunship or two work at harassing you out of range of their allies. In those cases you're much less likely to do much damage, but if you fly well and fly smart, you can keep them from doing much damage either.

 

A note on mobility, with the build I use generally the only things that can reliably keep up with me in a chase are Novadive/Blackbolts. A fast Heavy Scout can catch up if they engage when the Pike is at 75% engine pool or less and their better boost efficiency gives them a chance to run me out of fuel. I can make them really work at it though, and very few of them are patient enough to follow through to the end. Of course there's a price to pay for the speed. My Pike turns like a grain barge. Still that's not entirely bad, it helps remind me that I really shouldn't be mixing it up at close range.

 

I'm sure you could also make a medium/short range Pike too, with something like a Concussion/Cluster or Ion/Cluster loadout (maybe even EMP/Cluster), but you'd have to have different components so you could compete in a turning fight, and of course you'd need a very different flying style.

 

Bottom line, the Pike does well in the right conditions, and being a successful Pike pilot is about making sure that you have all the ingredients needed to create the right conditions. No different from any of the other ships in GSF really.

[DarthSchmoe]

I actually have both protons and concs fully upgraded.

 

I agree that protons can be great, but I feel like good pilots with good ships can avoid them so easily. It will probably be better in 2.7 with the nerf to engine abilities. I have thought about giving cluster/conc a try- but if I'm going to try to make close(ish) range my optimal range, I might as well go with the Star Guard I feel like.

 

Good pilots in good ships can avoid cluster missiles so I wouldn't let that deter you.

I fly the quell on my imp toon and its one of my favorites. Against gunships, a strategy that has worked well for me has been to sneak close and open with quads, then start lock on with clusters. When they barell roll you thrust and start the lock on with protons while contuinig to get close. Fire proton, and immediately start lock with clusters. Usually dead or extremely damage gunship. Works most times and will get easier after barell roll cooldown increased.

 

It all comes down to approach, positioning and knowing when to break off an attack (prett much same for any ship).

[okiobe]

I don't fly the pike but I have fought against them in my Flashfire. IMO they are the better strike fighter. Not really knowing anything about their specific loadouts I would say things that make it hard for me to kill them is the strong survivability they get (large & quick charging shields), annoying missile lockons almost non-stop, and decent maneuvering (better than GS or bomber). Going up against a pike in my flashfire is not my favorite because I know that against a good pilot it will take a long time to kill him or we will end up in a stalemate.

 

In short the pike is not terrible.

[Fractalsponge]

I routinely see highly successful pike/quell pilots on my server, but it is definitely rarer to see excellent pikes/quells than good flashfires/stings, for instance. I think the rewards for the T2 scouts are more immediate, and there are fewer people willing to persevere with missile strikes. Edited March 13, 2014 by Fractalsponge

[MarkosWarstorm]

I love my Pike. It was the first ship I mastered, and when I'm in a close match where I feel like I really need to maximize my contribution, that's what I fly. First, it can be extremely survivable -- when you need to go defensive, power to shields and ducking and weaving around the environment makes you very, very hard to kill. Add a little situational awareness and you can keep a satellite from being capped for a good long bit, unless you get ganged hard. When I'm going up against the better pilots on my server, it gives me enough survivability to be able to get out of a lot of sticky situations. Barrel roll is a lifesaver too, and it's also good for quickly jumping on nodes as soon as a domination match starts. Basically, anyone can kill enemies if they're left to just go shoot them unmolested. With the pike, I find I have more time to react when I get jumped so that I can try to either escape or turn the tables before I can get taken down. Quick-charge shields and hydrospanner can be lifesavers too.

 

Offensively, I go with quads and primarily concussions. I started with protons, maxed those out, and have switched to EMP missiles. The only problem with those is that I forget that I have them since it's not a habit yet, but they seem useful against drones/mines as well as enemy ships. Maxed quads with power to weapons is a force, and in a head-to-head with scouts, I can start locking missiles a little earlier due to the longer range. They lock faster, but once I launch, I can barrel roll right at them, evading theirs while mine hit. As I go head to head, I use the quick-charge shield after I've taken some damage to fill them up and pop hydrospanner too if much gets through to my hull.

 

I find there's no ship type that I have trouble with in my pike -- just good pilots. It's got the speed and closing ability (especially when you use barrel roll OFFENSIVELY) to deal with gunships, is nimble enough to deal with scouts (though in the hands of a skilled pilot, can be hard to get a bead on), and can pound away at bombers and their drones/mines. I've mastered at least one of each type, and while they all have strengths and weaknesses, for my style, I just like the pike best. I'm sure there are some who feel the same way about pretty much every other ship too. But I wouldn't say it has any major flaws, and it very well might not be you either -- it could just be that your natural style is more suited to another ship.

Edited March 14, 2014 by MarkosWarstorm

[MystbladeWA]

Maxed quads with power to weapons is a force, and in a head-to-head with scouts, I can start locking missiles a little earlier due to the longer range. They lock faster, but once I launch, I can barrel roll right at them, evading theirs while mine hit. As I go head to head, I use the quick-charge shield after I've taken some damage to fill them up and pop hydrospanner too if much gets through to my hull.

 

This head to head tactic works better with Retro Thrusters. When you are blasting them with your quads, and locking on a concussion missile you fire retros as they are locking on to you.

 

This is ideally around the 3000m closure mark, you boost back, remain in laser and missile los and it almost always results in a kill for me unless my enemy is wise to that move and barrel rolls or i misjudge and ram my arse into a satellite or wall.

[jtrick]

If I remember correctly, the Pike can't use retro thrusters.

 

I've been curious about the EMP missiles. What's the actual radius of their explosion? And what is a system ability anyways? I've noticed when I get hit EMP'ed I can't switch missiles personally.

[MystbladeWA]

If I remember correctly, the Pike can't use retro thrusters.

 

I've been curious about the EMP missiles. What's the actual radius of their explosion? And what is a system ability anyways? I've noticed when I get hit EMP'ed I can't switch missiles personally.

 

You actually might be right. I use that set up on my Starguard and I might be getting the two confused.

[Armonddd]

And what is a system ability anyways? I've noticed when I get hit EMP'ed I can't switch missiles personally.

 

Fancy internal term for "the 1 button".

[Itkovian]

You actually might be right. I use that set up on my Starguard and I might be getting the two confused.

 

Yes, the Pike gets Koiogran Turn and Barrel Roll as its missile lock breakers, which generally means Barrel Roll. Among other things, that generally makes the Pike an excellent skirmisher/interceptor. I run mine with Clusters and Protorps, and so I go in for quick strikes with my quads and clusters, switching to protorps against bombers or longer range targets that just used their missile lock breakers.

 

The Star Guard, with its double primaries, makes it ideal for loading Heavy Lasers and Concussion missiles (average missile), and if you load directional shields you then have an excellent jouster.

 

Not that I don't do jousts on my pike, mind you, but generally I try it only long enough to get my clusters off, or sometimes a protorp. With quick charge shields you just don't have the lasting power to do a proper joust... but that's okay, because you have the engine power to zip around.

[Ramalina]

Last night on my Pike I got a missile lock with Ptorps at 7km and released at about 500-600m as I boosted past the target. To be honest, making that shot was about 50% luck, but it was an almost instant kill and since I reached the starfighter at the same time as the torps the explosion was pretty spectacular (and it was a good thing for me that they don't have a blast radius for missiles in GSF or I would have blown up myself too).

 

Stick with the Pike long enough, and you'll have moments that make it very worth it.

 

I'm also now keen to experiment with extreme boost divebombing. If you launch at 500 m missile break abilities don't do the target much good.

[OscarDivine]

My main ships are Pike and Quell each at top T5 and similar builds. I now use EMP and Proton combo with Heavy Lasers, but this changes weekly.

[-Streven-]

Love, love, love my pike.

 

 

Quads

Protorps

Clusters

Directional shielding

Barrel roll

Range extender

Reinforced armor

Doc as copilot

Don't remeber the rest at the moment. I think I have speed thrusters and better turning from barrel roll. I don't have as much boost as I like but the heavy shielding compensates. I save barrell roll and engine power for escaping and try to initiate engagements with as much engine power as possible.

 

Like others have said the deal with pikes is to keep enemies at range and fake them out with missike locks. Gunships can't escape protons if they are away from cover. Just wait for the berrel roll then start the protorp lock. With 11500 range they can really reach out and touch someone. I like clusters for close range damage and constant missile locks. I choose the DOT on my clusters since they prevent shield regen. Quads and a single cluster usually kill most scouts on the first pass and with full power to shields directed forward they rarely even make a dent. Doc is there for shield penetration weapons. Directional shielding and barrel roll makes escaping easy. Directional shielding is really versatile. With shields full forward you can often handle two enemies at once. You want to extend the length (distance not time) of your dogfights and joust. Boost or barrell roll to create distance before turning. Do not get into tight turning battles where you can't get cluster locks.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

My main ships are Pike and Quell each at top T5 and similar builds. I now use EMP and Proton combo with Heavy Lasers, but this changes weekly.

 

I have a similar build, but I use Quads instead of heavies, since they're more of an all around weapon and heavies are bad for dogfighting. I kind of think of it as a bomber killer more than anything, since EMPs and ProTorps have a big impact on what they can do. Works pretty well against other ships, though. And as others have said, a fun tactic with ProTorps is to boost once you're in lock radius so you're closer when you fire it off.

 

I was actually shocked to be killed by a ProTorp the other night by someone jousting... I just don't see that many people using them, but they are pretty nice, especially when you get the speed boost.

[Altheran]

I have a similar build, but I use Quads instead of heavies, since they're more of an all around weapon and heavies are bad for dogfighting.

 

I understand why he'd use Heavy instead of Quads... Those Missiles ignore shields. So if you can land some of those, a wise idea would be trying to finish the job without having to fully taking down the shields. Thing that Heavy may be able to perform thanks to the by-passing upgrade, and no other Pike/Quell blaster cannon can do if I'm right.

 

And personally, I don't feel like Quads are much better at dogfigting. And given the firing arc and lock time of those missiles, the Pike/Quell is already not really fitting close dogfight. I think it would be better off using the extra range, bypass, and armor ignore (if you take these upgrades) and remain a bit further from dogfight, where you initially started anyway (because of missiles limitations)

 

Off-topic : I love my Pike's Proton crits. Obliterated a scout in one hit today thanks to it (nice red "950"). Poor newbie, he probably did not understand what happened.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Altheran