Bioware forgot to include the first M in MMO...Massive

[ColonelColt]

You can't say for for sure it won't hold subs. It very well could if there was enough people who don't like being shoulder to shoulder with 50 people like myself.

 

The reason I, and others, claim it wont hold subs is because it's just one less thing going for it. You already hit 50 and have no content to hold you over, now there aren't even people to interact with you. It's like playing a singleplayer game, beating that singleplayer game, and then trying to roam around that empty world by yourself. It just isn't fun and you drop that game pretty quickly. MMOs need long-term things to hold players over and with the entire game looking and feeling like a ghost town, that is just one less thing to hold players.

[Ukucia]

I am fully aware of that. But your post just proves my post. It takes literally thousands of people in space ships duking it out to crash it. Fact is, the game can support 50k people at the same time and can support well over a thousand people in the same area fighting each other. I'd expect any other MMO to be able to do the same. Unlike Eve, though, TOR does not have to worry about two thousand people gathering in coruscant to start fighting. So my point remains the same.

 

Wow are you wrong. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the wrong-ness.

 

So your argument: The TOR shards should have more people in them, because CCP organizes it's shards differently.

 

See, EvE's solar systems are just like TOR's shards - there's a limited number of people in each one. The fact that CCP organized those shards into one "server", while TOR organizes them into separate shards and "servers" doesn't actually prove anything.

 

The EvE server having 50k people elsewhere is just like TOR having 50k people elsewhere. You are not interacting with them, and you will not see them. It demonstrates nothing about TOR doing something wrong because both TOR and EvE are doing the same damn thing. They just packaged the result differently in their marketing.

 

At my server and my level, there's plenty of competition for quest objectives. I'm sorry you have either outpaced everyone else in leveling, or your server is low-pop. But screwing people like me over so you have more players to look at is not good for the game.

[murdaralph]

Sharding is great!!!!!! for a pve server..... Isnt putting sharding in the same sentence of PVP an oxymoron? or contradicting?

 

Dont get me wrong i love not waiting for mobs to spawn because someone just cleared them all out, or gathering for that matter.

 

 

IMO Sharding just shouldnt be implemented for PVP servers. Now if they cant handle not sharding thats a different story

 

 

Edit: My server is full pop. Yet to come across a jedi

Edited December 23, 2011 by murdaralph

[Leggomy]

You make it sound like you understand logic, but you do not. Years to optimize their system, means that bioware had the same years to learn the same. I don't give a crap that WoW launched with x number of problems in 2004. What I care about is they SOLVED them, and bioware should know how to as well. I absolutely expect this game to launch with the same precision. When I played beta Rift into early game and then launch, I saw hundreds of people. A game should release with NEW tech, not old then claim it needs TIME to be as good as modern MMO's.

 

Again its not the same code and not the same servers. Its not the same thing. Thats like saying if you can make a car you can also make a peach. It makes no sense. You think all MMOs run from the same code? Its not the same anything yet you act like they can just take what Blizzard did add some stuff to it and re-release it. You guys are 100% clueless on how software development and deployment work.

[djsmileey]

You make it sound like you understand logic, but you do not. Years to optimize their system, means that bioware had the same years to learn that same. I don't give a crap that WoW launched with x number of problems in 2004. What I care about is they SOLVED them, and bioware should know how to as well. I absolutely expect this game to launch with the same precision. When I played beta Rift into early game and then launch, I saw hundreds of people. A game should release with NEW tech, not old then claim it needs TIME to be as good as modern MMO's.

 

I started to respond to this, but I realized it's full of so much fail and blissful ignorance, I am just going to let it lie.

 

The bottom line is: What are you trying to accomplish? Lets say you WIN this silly argument eh... what then? You win the internet? The game gives up and goes home? The customers all quit? We all resign our subscriptions and call you almighty king of the knowing?

 

What are you REALLY trying to prove here in the SWTOR FORUMS?

[ColonelColt]

Wow are you wrong. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the wrong-ness.

 

So your argument: The TOR shards should have more people in them, because CCP organizes it's shards differently.

 

See, EvE's solar systems are just like TOR's shards - there's a limited number of people in each one. The fact that CCP organized those shards into one "server", while TOR organizes them into separate shards and "servers" doesn't actually prove anything.

 

The EvE server having 50k people elsewhere is just like TOR having 50k people elsewhere. You are not interacting with them, and you will not see them. It demonstrates nothing about TOR doing something wrong because both TOR and EvE are doing the same damn thing. They just packaged the result differently in their marketing.

 

At my server and my level, there's plenty of competition for quest objectives. I'm sorry you have either outpaced everyone else in leveling, or your server is low-pop. But screwing people like me over so you have more players to look at is not good for the game.

 

Except, unlike TOR, Eve can support hundreds, even thousands of players in a single shard. It takes over two thousand players actively fighting to bring it down. In ToR you get like, fifty people tops. So yet again, my point stands.

 

P.S. My highest char is a lvl 25 agent, and I'm playing on one of the most populated servers in the game. So yeah, no.

[djsmileey]

The problem is your too blind by your own loyalty to a game with issues to see the problem. You should re-read the OP's thread to gain a better grasp as the issue at hand.

 

You mean reread the OP's Fail post in an attempt to get on board the crazy train?'

 

 

It's HIS OPINION. You're saying we should all get on board his crazy opinion simply because YOU TWO see it as a problem?

 

Lets say that EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD COMPLAINING ABOUT LIGHT SERVERS GATHERED UP.

 

maybe what 500 people? and most of those people are arguing AGAINST THE OP'S...

 

How many subs are there? 2 million or more?

 

/nuff said

Edited December 23, 2011 by djsmileey

[ColonelColt]

Again its not the same code and not the same servers. Its not the same thing. Thats like saying if you can make a car you can also make a peach. It makes no sense. You think all MMOs run from the same code? Its not the same anything yet you act like they can just take what Blizzard did add some stuff to it and re-release it. You guys are 100% clueless on how software development and deployment work.

 

While it is true that TOR uses different coding and whatnot. The basis is still there. WoW came in, had these issues, and solved them. Now, while Bioware can't solve them the same way, they CAN look at what the problem was and what WoW did to solve it, and try to emulate that in their own version of code. I've done this often in modding. While my fix will not be done the same way, the end result will be the same, and that is what Bioware should have done. So saying WoW had years of polish is still no excuse, as those years of polish can be used by Bioware as well.

[Cadiva]

As of right now TOR feels like a single player game, with the occasional multiplayer quest or two. Which in itself is perfectly fine and I am loving it, the story is so well done.

 

Which is pretty much what BioWare said they were making right from the start. This isn't a traditional bog standard open world MMO but it never pretended to be one either.

[ColonelColt]

Which is pretty much what BioWare said they were making right from the start. This isn't a traditional bog standard open world MMO but it never pretended to be one either.

 

Then they can't expect to get recurring subs for a singleplayer game. If I went out and bought ME3, I sure as hell don't expect to make monthly payments on it. If you plan on making your MMO like a SP game, then expect for it to be treated as one by your community, and do not expect recurring subs.

[Leggomy]

While it is true that TOR uses different coding and whatnot. The basis is still there. WoW came in, had these issues, and solved them. Now, while Bioware can't solve them the same way, they CAN look at what the problem was and what WoW did to solve it, and try to emulate that in their own version of code. I've done this often in modding. While my fix will not be done the same way, the end result will be the same, and that is what Bioware should have done. So saying WoW had years of polish is still no excuse, as those years of polish can be used by Bioware as well.

 

The game officially launched 3 days ago. Can they have a little time or what? I mean you do not see how completely unreasonable this is? To ask all these issues be solved within 3 days of launch? Leave feedback then let them listen to other people and implement something. How can anyone expect perfection at launch?

[djsmileey]

Then they can't expect to get recurring subs for a singleplayer game. If I went out and bought ME3, I sure as hell don't expect to make monthly payments on it. If you plan on making your MMO like a SP game, then expect for it to be treated as one by your community, and do not expect recurring subs.

 

Again... You are assuming you know what EVERYONE wants.

 

They CAN expect to get recurring subs, because people DO like it.

 

You sir are the VOCAL MINORITY.

[Fiachsidhe]

Actually, this is entirely opinion, but I do not feel TOR handles the 'RPG' side of things any better then any other MMO. Even the story driven aspect really is nothing more then a facade when you realize it may as well be a movie given how much control you actually have over it. There is no real roleplaying in TOR, gameplay wise. Any roleplay is simply between community members, which every MMO has. So tbh the only thing TOR has going for it is online multiplayer. Since no MMO has the RPG part, and TOR is severely lacking the first M part.

 

When did I say it wasn't an opinion? I never understood the point of opening a response identifying an opinion as such.

 

Everything in a video game, is a facade. The concept of progression, the combat designed to hide dice roles, etc.. Gameplay based role playing is choice. In this game, you have choices that help you mold and character, and play a role. Granted the options are limited, but until they hire round the clock actors to play NPC's, yes the bulk of the role playing is up to gamers. Just as the social aspect of the game is up to the players.

 

As for being lacking, I disagree. How many people do you interact with in an average session of any other game? Do you really need every area swarming with players to consider it a massively social game? I've played over 20 mmorpg's and this game is no less social or massively multiplayer than any other I've played.

 

I guess i don't really get what your complaint is. I see plenty of people and I really don't need fifty people trying to tap the same quest node 24/7.

[Stinkflipper]

Umm theres a Huge Q to log onto my server EVERY day, im talking 300-700+ i see TONS of players Every day and im on Voss so idk what server your on maybe a bad one ? : )

[McAvinue]

Again its not the same code and not the same servers. Its not the same thing. Thats like saying if you can make a car you can also make a peach. It makes no sense. You think all MMOs run from the same code? Its not the same anything yet you act like they can just take what Blizzard did add some stuff to it and re-release it. You guys are 100% clueless on how software development and deployment work.

 

Again, I don't care if it is not the same code. That is a developer issue. What want is that code to be able to handle hundreds of people in a single server at the same time without sharding or phasing, or whatever you want to defend. Plus your car example is flawed. Try this:

 

Company A) 2000: Car is invented but lacks windshield wipers. -> 2004 Manufacture creates windshield wipers.

 

Company B) 2011: Creates NEW car, but lacks windshield wipers. -> Public ask why? Manufacture: We are new, we haven't had time to develop them yet. Give us time.

 

Why? the windshield wiper was already invented, so I fully expect them to be here now. Also both cars can drive, and ALL MMO's should be able to host hundreds of players at a time.

[Ghaiana]

With over 1 mil subscribers you can hardly call it not massive, even if you want all the people in 1 square meter.

[Ukucia]

Except, unlike TOR, Eve can support hundreds, even thousands of players in a single shard.

No, it can't. Their marketing claims otherwise, but the game becomes unplayable in about the 300-range. And that's a game with much simpler server mechanics. Ships are basically identical, for example.

 

In ToR you get like, fifty people tops. So yet again, my point stands.

Except you are assuming TOR's limitation is technical, as in the server would die with more. You have no idea if that is the case. Since I've been in shards with about 150 people with no lag, it's pretty clear the hardware can handle more per shard than they are letting in.

 

With the level of competition I'm experiencing for quest objectives, I'm happy the limit is lower than the maximum their hardware can support. I am constantly running into other players out in the field and having to play games to tag the quest mobs first.

 

P.S. My highest char is a lvl 25 agent, and I'm playing on one of the most populated servers in the game. So yeah, no.

 

Then come on over to Sith Meditation Sphere, Imperial side. You'll see plenty of people.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ukucia

[McAvinue]

I started to respond to this, but I realized it's full of so much fail and blissful ignorance, I am just going to let it lie.

 

The bottom line is: What are you trying to accomplish? Lets say you WIN this silly argument eh... what then? You win the internet? The game gives up and goes home? The customers all quit? We all resign our subscriptions and call you almighty king of the knowing?

 

What are you REALLY trying to prove here in the SWTOR FORUMS?

 

Please stop posting. I don't think you know how. I want bioware to be able to host hundreds of players at the same time without sharding or phasing. Is that clear enough of you? Do you lack reading comprehension to understand this? I hope I've explained myself clearly and slowly this time.

[uchihazeso]

they need to remove the number thing lol

[Hollow_Masque]

The reason I, and others, claim it wont hold subs is because it's just one less thing going for it. You already hit 50 and have no content to hold you over, now there aren't even people to interact with you. It's like playing a singleplayer game, beating that singleplayer game, and then trying to roam around that empty world by yourself. It just isn't fun and you drop that game pretty quickly. MMOs need long-term things to hold players over and with the entire game looking and feeling like a ghost town, that is just one less thing to hold players.

 

But can't you see where it might be a plus to some people and not "one less thing? Not being swamped by hundreds of people, 99.99 you well never interact with ever, is a plus for some.

[Cadiva]

Then they can't expect to get recurring subs for a singleplayer game. If I went out and bought ME3, I sure as hell don't expect to make monthly payments on it. If you plan on making your MMO like a SP game, then expect for it to be treated as one by your community, and do not expect recurring subs.

 

Yes they can because they're going to be patching and providing extra content something you don't get in a single player game without paying for it in an expansion or as a DLC.

 

ETA: This also only seems to be an issue on PvP servers so perhaps that says more about the fact that they provided too many PvP servers for the amount of people who actually want to PvP?

There are no problems with not seeing plenty of people on my EU PvE server Luka Sene, there are dozens of people on the Fleet, loads hanging round the Flashpoint lobby, people in the Cantina on Korriban where my Sith Inquisitor currently is. I haven't been anywhere with less than 10 people in the same space and that suits me just fine.

 

In addition, this sharding may very well disappear within a week or two when they have had a chance to see where the population impact points are as the game is only three days old. On Korriban in early access there were up to four different shards, now we're three days into launch there's normally only two shards, evidence that the population caps are being managed imho.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Cadiva

[xRydisx]

Yes they can because they're going to be patching and providing extra content something you don't get in a single player game without paying for it in an expansion or as a DLC.

 

ah, but you pay here regardless if you get patches monthly or not (which most MMO dont do monthly patches for new content). I could pay 7 for a DLC 1 time. Oh, and almost all MMO do make you pay for their expansions + the sub fee. SO uh..yeah, your still paying for expansions and your content cost you more.

Edited December 23, 2011 by xRydisx

[Leggomy]

Again, I don't care if it is not the same code. That is a developer issue. What want is that code to be able to handle hundreds of people in a single server at the same time without sharding or phasing, or whatever you want to defend. Plus your car example is flawed. Try this:

 

Company A) 2000: Car is invented but lacks windshield wipers. -> 2004 Manufacture creates windshield wipers.

 

Company B) 2011: Creates NEW car, but lacks windshield wipers. -> Public ask why? Manufacture: We are new, we haven't had time to develop them yet. Give us time.

 

Why? the windshield wiper was already invented, so I fully expect them to be here now. Also both cars can drive, and ALL MMO's should be able to host hundreds of players at a time.

 

This is a game not a car. Sorry but again your comparison has nothing to do with anything remotely close to a video game. We arent talking windshield wipers we are talking code which can and will be optimized as we go along. You comparing it to a car is simply foolish.

[Leggomy]

ah, but you pay here regardless if you get patches monthly or not (which most MMO dont do monthly patches for new content). I could pay 7 for a DLC 1 time. Oh, and almost all MMO do make you pay for their expansions + the sub fee. SO uh..yeah, your still paying for expansions and your content cost you more.

 

Hmm well 1 million plus people have signed up for recurring subscriptions. Think you may be a little out of touch and off base here.

[xRydisx]

Hmm well 1 million plus people have signed up for recurring subscriptions. Think you may be a little out of touch and off base here.

 

obviously, there were over 1 million pre-orders. You can't play the game without a sub, so anyone that pre-ordered is considered a subscriber, whether they continue to play or not. Companies ploys are easy to create aren't they.