I would like a Statement from someone from Bioware regarding Armor

[Kortio]

Okay, Bioware. What where you thinking when you made the Juggernaut Basic/Elite/Ultimate Comms Armor?

I would really like to hear from the responsible Person what he was thinking when making it. I have real issues getting into the endgame content, because I cannot join any random groups.

 

I got now the full Basic Comms Armor, but still had to rip out most Enhancements to make it anywhere near viable. Since no 69er Enhancements are available that have any sort of useful stats, I am stuck with 66er Enhancements. I am about to grind the rest of my ~500 Basic Comms to be able to buy enough belts to rip out the mods and replace the ones in my Armor with those 69er Mods to have sufficient Defense to go on a raid. The problem is, that the 66er Enhancements lower my HP so much, that I am unable to participate in any sort of endgame content. I was able to join 2 Raids last week, because they didn't find any other Tanks. I was last choice and still got heat from many raid members.

 

So why on Earth, do I have to grind so many comms in order to have a viable Tank Gear? I mean, I am with Basic Comms right now, I still have to grind Ultimates and Elites and do the same thing. But it is really slow, compared to Damage Dealers, They just buy their Basic Gear, put it on and are done with the whole thing and can get into any ops where they then to proceed to make fun of the fact that they have as much HP than me, as a Tank.

 

I know that HP does not matter too much, but most DPS don't know that. It still cripples me playing the game.

So, please answer me, what is the purpose of the Bulwark Gear? Why does it have so much Absorb and Shield and no Defense? What will you do in the near future to make life for Tanks less annoying and less grindy?

 

Thank you very much in Advance.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[Rasen]

Why are you min maxing with lower tiers of gear? I know some people like to do this, but it isn't necessary or even prudent to waste time min maxing when you will be changing everything in mere moments. You should have no problem tanking using comm gear in anyway shape or form if doing story mode runs. My question to you is what content are you getting kicked from? If you don't mind answering.

[Toweleeeie]

All comms gears has bad armoring, mods, and enhancements. It artificially extends content, IE you have to buy multiple pieces of gear to min/max one piece. Also it is to incentivize doing HM Ops bc the drop gear may be the same lvl but it is much better.

If I remember correctly the devs announced the change when Blackhole gear was released. It was to give the "hardcore" something to strive for. I like the system.

[Kortio]

Why are you min maxing with lower tiers of gear? I know some people like to do this, but it isn't necessary or even prudent to waste time min maxing when you will be changing everything in mere moments.

 

Because my defensive stats lower too much when I wear that stuff unchanged. I can't even do Dailies like Oricon properly because my HP drops so fast, especially in the Tower. I could just wear it, give others a false impression about my capabilities, but it will annoy every healer out there, when my HP is fluctuating like crazy during a fight, because I don't have proper stats.

 

You should have no problem tanking using comm gear in anyway shape or form if doing story mode runs. My question to you is what content are you getting kicked from? If you don't mind answering.

 

TFB, Courtyard, Scum and Villany, List goes on. You can't really do anything. People see your HP and start crying.

 

All comms gears has bad armoring, mods, and enhancements. It artificially extends content, IE you have to buy multiple pieces of gear to min/max one piece. Also it is to incentivize doing HM Ops bc the drop gear may be the same lvl but it is much better.

If I remember correctly the devs announced the change when Blackhole gear was released. It was to give the "hardcore" something to strive for. I like the system.

It is a tedium, nothing else. It is neither fun and more importantly, it gives players a wrong idea about what Stats a Tank needs and how you build up your gear.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[tanerb]

yeah, tank gear is problematic. I believe you can buy crafted 66 immunity/sturdiness enchantments though.

[Jeweledleah]

while tank gear is problematic (alacrity? seriously? of all the things to put on tanking gear, alacrity?), basic coms gear is actualy heavier on hitpoints then defensive stats, and its heavier on endurance than equivalent (arcanian) tier pieces. the reason why people see your hitpoints and cry is becasue they are not very knowledgeable of what stats are actualy good for tanks and actualy think that augmenting for endurance is the way to go. and/or they are also somewhat spoiled by tanks who have been playing for a while and are overgeared for content that they wish to run. all the story modes you mentioned? are tuned for 66 purples. oh yes. becasue that's what basic gear used to be, before they released new tier of content and updated all the commendation rewards.

 

speaking of augments. this is where a lot of your defensive stats will come from. starting with early gear and way into more high end gear.

 

that said, one thing I would suggest to you is when it comes to minmaxing your defensive stats, I would highly recommend this thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

 

P.S. are you doing dailies with a healer companion? it would make things easier for you. that and using cooldowns. those dailies reward 66 purple gear and are doable in 66 blues if you are cautious.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Slicka]

yeah, tank gear is problematic. I believe you can buy crafted 66 immunity/sturdiness enchantments though.

 

Best part about tank gear is every group wants you geared so your stats outlvl what drops in said OPs. Always makes me laugh when you don't need top stats to run said OPs for the better gear. I know where OP is coming from though, I've tanked for many years in other MMOs.

[Kortio]

yeah, tank gear is problematic. I believe you can buy crafted 66 immunity/sturdiness enchantments though.

I can craft them, yes.

 

that said, one thing I would suggest to you is when it comes to minmaxing your defensive stats, I would highly recommend this thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

 

P.S. are you doing dailies with a healer companion? it would make things easier for you. that and using cooldowns. those dailies reward 66 purple gear and are doable in 66 blues if you are cautious.

I know the thread and I am way past the point where I have real issues with the solo dailies. But I am not asking for help here, I know how to build my gear, I am asking Bioware if this tedious grind of basic comms is really necessary or if we can just have a better endgame entry level tankgear. Because as I said, it is not just the Basic Comms Gear. It is also the Elite and Ultimate Comms gear that has the same useless stats. It is an increadible tedious and boring daily grind to get geared for the higher end Raids. If it would be just the basic comms gear, I would say okay, whatever, but it goes through 3 Tiers of endgame equipment and that cannot be the intention.

 

I know where OP is coming from though, I've tanked for many years in other MMOs.

Yeah, same here. But I never ever had so many issues with finding gear. The problem is, that there is no random gear that I could slaughter for better stats. In other MMO's you always have a wide range of gear that provides different sets of stats to fit any playstyle. Here we have a very narrow and unlogical route of progression for Tanks.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[Jeweledleah]

I can craft them, yes.

 

 

I know the thread and I am way past the point where I have real issues with the solo dailies. But I am not asking for help here, I know how to build my gear, I am asking Bioware if this tedious grind of basic comms is really necessary or if we can just have a better endgame entry level tankgear. Because as I said, it is not just the Basic Comms Gear. It is also the Elite and Ultimate Comms gear that has the same useless stats. It is an increadible tedious and boring daily grind to get geared for the higher end Raids. If it would be just the basic comms gear, I would say okay, whatever, but it goes through 3 Tiers of endgame equipment and that cannot be the intention.

 

 

Yeah, same here. But I never ever had so many issues with finding gear. The problem is, that there is no random gear that I could slaughter for better stats. In other MMO's you always have a wide range of gear that provides different sets of stats to fit any playstyle. Here we have a very narrow and unlogical route of progression for Tanks.

 

oh I hear you, about the awful itemization on coms gear at all levels. I mean even tier gear can be odd sometimes, to the point where if I roll on it, its solely for the set piece armoring, with everything else likely needing to be replaced. I have several tanks of my own and gearing them was incredibly painful even with access to higher end crafters and ability to send along suplementary drops I'd get/buy on my main via legacy gear.

 

I just mean... your health is not going to be high enough to satisfy the kind of people who cry looking at your gear right now. not unless you do it all wrong by augmenting for it, or find an ops group you can progress with and gear naturally (at which point you probably won't need to pug anyways).

 

but that question to bioware, what were they thinking? its been asked over and over and no one really knows why they made gearing a tank properly that much more annoying then gearing a dps/healer (which can also be annoying, but not as horribly as the tank). maker knows tanking is already a role people tend to avoid playing.

[mokkh]

while tank gear is problematic (alacrity? seriously? of all the things to put on tanking gear, alacrity?),

 

So much this, the people who put alacrity on "tank" gear need to be re-educated.

 

Or maybe there is a "random stat" gear generator? Combine that with a "random appearance" generator and I guess that would explain the whole assault cannons with cunning issue as well.

[Prototypemind]

I feel your pain. I felt exactly the same once I started using my main to tank and rolled a Sin as well. All of my characters have become relatively easy to gear because my guild runs so often, but it sucks to have to buy belts and bracers over and over to get the mods, and to lose a large amount of mitigation going from some of the best crafted enhancements to what you get from comms. There are higher end versions of much of what is able to be crafted that simply have not been put it game and it's left to clearing content to get it.

 

It seems that perhaps it's simply part of keeping the grind up because of the reduction in schedule for releasing new content since launch. Maybe someone there in Austin is just a masochist though =p

[Rafaman]

I think... and this just my 2 cents they may have done this to keep crafters, crafting.

 

Nevertheless, while some enhancements in armor seem questionable. It doesn't bother me that much because usually the gear in question is just a place holder while I get something much better. Bonuses for matched sets are the key IMO.

 

As a tank, I do swap out mods quite a bit to get the balance in mitigation that I want. But Augments are more valuable to me as they make up deficiencies. But I have a lot of creds so none of this is a huge issue.

 

Later when I min max top gear, I spend a lot more time and effort tweaking the best in slot.

 

My point is, I don't find it a burden, on the lower end because I don't use the enhancements or gear for very long. I haven't been refused a run because of it and I started in almost full 66's.

 

People do get spoiled though. They look at Endurance as a rating when it is not. And... now that they are used to seeing 40k plus tanks they forget the actual gear rating requirement for content.

[Halinalle]

Because my defensive stats lower too much when I wear that stuff unchanged. I can't even do Dailies like Oricon properly because my HP drops so fast, especially in the Tower. I could just wear it, give others a false impression about my capabilities, but it will annoy every healer out there, when my HP is fluctuating like crazy during a fight, because I don't have proper stats.

 

I don't have any problems in CZ with dps companion. I don't even bother with healer companion because it would be too easy and slow. Quinn can easily keep me at over 95% HP against champions in Section X (only time when I drop below 90% is when I'm not in range of his heals, I like to get as far as I can from Quinn so I have plenty of time to grab the aggro again if I lose it).

[Kortio]

People do get spoiled though. They look at Endurance as a rating when it is not. And... now that they are used to seeing 40k plus tanks they forget the actual gear rating requirement for content.

 

While players are to be blamed for the most part of it, I simply cannot get over the fact that those 3 tiers (Basic, Elite , Ultimate) are all worthless, except for the Armorings and some mods. And I would need to spend a lot of credits for 31 crafted Mods/Enhancements to have my overall stats on that level of those Tiers. I don't need to min/max, but when I stand there with no Defense Rating in Basic Comms gear and only Shield and absorb, I feel naked and when I attack mobs, I can see how my HP are melting away like crazy. With my current gear, I have a more steady loss of HP when fighting. Which is how it should be.

 

I don't have any problems in CZ with dps companion. I don't even bother with healer companion because it would be too easy and slow. Quinn can easily keep me at over 95% HP against champions in Section X (only time when I drop below 90% is when I'm not in range of his heals, I like to get as far as I can from Quinn so I have plenty of time to grab the aggro again if I lose it).

 

Oricon in the Basic Gear unmodified is suicide, especially the Watchtower Boss. Works fine with my setup.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[Halinalle]

While players are to be blamed for the most part of it, I simply cannot get over the fact that those 3 tiers (Basic, Elite , Ultimate) are all worthless, except for the Armorings and some mods. And I would need to spend a lot of credits for 31 crafted Mods/Enhancements to have my overall stats on that level of those Tiers. I don't need to min/max, but when I stand there with no Defense Rating in Basic Comms gear and only Shield and absorb, I feel naked and when I attack mobs, I can see how my HP are melting away like crazy. With my current gear, I have a more steady loss of HP when fighting. Which is how it should be.

 

I'm currently using mods that are very high on shield and absorb, very low on defense (16% or something) I still don't see rapid loss of HP unless I'm trying to do something stupid like aggro 2-3 groups of level 55s.

 

With two Black Market pieces and rest of it is purple 66s. Even some 58s in saber and shield.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Halinalle

[Kortio]

I'm currently using mods that are very high on shield and absorb, very low on defense (16% or something) I still don't see rapid loss of HP unless I'm trying to do something stupid like aggro 2-3 groups of level 55s.

16%, yeah. If I wear unmodified Basic, I have like 12%. With my 28er purple Enhancements currently around 16% as well.

Remember, I have never gotten any Loot from any Ops.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[Fantazm]

I doubt you'll get what you want.

[Kortio]

I doubt you'll get what you want.

 

I agree with that, I expect nothing. But I still hope that maybe someone from BW will explain, why it is that way and maybe we players are all wrong about the stats. I simply don't see me progressing much further with this kind of tedious grind. I could also just roll a DPS Character and have it the easy way, but I don't really enjoy DPS Characters that much.

[Prototypemind]

Also, rereading your original post, you're making this way too hard on yourself. There's no reason that you can't raid to get better gear. You could easily do TfB and S&V Story Mode, especially as most groups will have at least one geared out healer who can keep you up if necessary even in a Pug, as well as Torborro's Courtyard and EV Classic runs. With what you say you have as of now you should be more than good for that content.

 

Saying that, you don't grind comms to outgear the content and then run it, you run the content, progress through it, and gear as you're able to clear the bosses. If you haven't done any Ops though I can understand you feeling burned out, because doing nothing but the weekly to get Elites and Ultimates would drive most people crazy. As much as you're grinding you also should have the creds to buy a number of mitigation mods and enhancements from GTN. I'm often amazed at how low people sometimes sell them for. Doing the CZ and Oricon Weeklies, with may Section X tossed in for good measure gives you enough creds for a full run of 66 mitigation mods or enhancements for all of your armoring.

 

If you want to do Ops, do them. If you want an easier time of it join a guild that runs at all levels. Most are constantly advertising on Fleet if they have openings in their lower tier groups, and you can also search the server forums in both the basic and guild recruitment areas, as well as posting that you're looking for a guild to join.

 

TLDR: you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Play the content and enjoy the challenge.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Prototypemind

[Kortio]

Also, rereading your original post, you're making this way too hard on yourself. There's no reason that you can't raid to get better gear. You could easily do TfB and S&V Story Mode, especially as most groups will have at least one geared out healer who can keep you up if necessary even in a Pug, as well as Torborro's Courtyard and EV Classic runs. With what you say you have as of now you should be more than good for that content.

 

Saying that, you don't grind comms to outgear the content and then run it, you run the content, progress through it, and gear as you're able to clear the bosses. If you haven't done any Ops though I can understand you feeling burned out, because doing nothing but the weekly to get Elites and Ultimates would drive most people crazy. As much as you're grinding you also should have the creds to buy a number of mitigation mods and enhancements from GTN. I'm often amazed at how low people sometimes sell them for. Doing the CZ and Oricon Weeklies, with may Section X tossed in for good measure gives you enough creds for a full run of 66 mitigation mods or enhancements for all of your armoring.

 

If you want to do Ops, do them. If you want an easier time of it join a guild that runs at all levels. Most are constantly advertising on Fleet if they have openings in their lower tier groups, and you can also search the server forums in both the basic and guild recruitment areas, as well as posting that you're looking for a guild to join.

 

TLDR: you're making this way more complicated than it needs to be. Play the content and enjoy the challenge.

 

As I said multiple times, I can do those 66 Enhancements myself ( Advanced XXX Enhancement 28). I already have them in. I am still at only 33k HP. Which is the Tankmeter on The Progenitor (EU).

 

I am also in a guild. Their tanks say the same. Not enough HP, no experience.

The others are actually quite nice and help me out now and then with Heroic Quests that they have done already 100 times, that is why I stick with them for now.

 

And you can't play Engame content all alone.

 

Really guys, I have read the guides, I am doing what I can, but all this does not change the fact that there is a problem here.

 

edit: With the next gear reset, Bioware should for example not introduce such a big gap in HP between end game and "fresh max level" tanks. This way low HP wouldn't be such a problem. There is a difference of 9k between me and one of our top Tank in our guild.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Kortio

[Darth_Wicked]

As I said multiple times, I can do those 66 Enhancements myself ( Advanced XXX Enhancement 28). I already have them in. I am still at only 33k HP. Which is the Tankmeter on The Progenitor (EU).

 

I am also in a guild. Their tanks say the same. Not enough HP, no experience.

The others are actually quite nice and help me out now and then with Heroic Quests that they have done already 100 times, that is why I stick with them for now.

 

And you can't play Engame content all alone.

 

Really guys, I have read the guides, I am doing what I can, but all this does not change the fact that there is a problem here.

 

There is no problem.

 

As people pointed out already more than once, it's working as intended in order to extend the gameplay a bit more, by having you chase around the enhancements you need, like a dog after a bone.

 

Also, 33k HP with purple 66's looks perfectly legit to me. Black-Market Implants also help for the most part, though some have accuracy in them.

[Prototypemind]

I'm going to say again that whom you're running with is part of the problem. In the gear that you have now you should more than be able to survive the Story Mode content. I do see people in gen chat refusing to take DPS with fewer than 33K HPs for Story Modes, though, so I know it happens. Regardless, if you are running the best craftable 66s than as a Sin/Shadow, Jugg/Guardian, PT/Vanguard you should be more than sufficiently geared for the content, especially with geared Guildmates.

 

We ran two new members to the guild through DF/DP tonight with one in only the 66s that come from the Oricon questline, and one in two piece 69s that dropped for him in TfB/S&V runs the prior week. One died and it took effort to keep him and the other healed up on the Council, but we got it done. DF/DP drop 69s/72s and can be done in 66s if everyone is on their toes. TfB/S&V drop 69s and are more than able to be cleared in unoptimized 66s. I tanked TfB in a blend of 61/66 with clicky relics and no set bonuses back when Sins still had self-heals, so I promise you that you can more than manage it now with the load out you have. TC and EV HM/NiM are a cakewalk in what you're in as well.

 

You are more than geared enough for the Story Modes, and if your guild as a whole wanted to help you learn and progress then they'd have you in there running the content. I really do suggest if you're wanting to get in there you speak up with them or you look elsewhere. There's no reason you should have to sit out until you grind yourself a full set of 72s or 78s.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Prototypemind

[Darth_Wicked]

I'm going to say again that whom you're running with is part of the problem. In the gear that you have now you should more than be able to survive the Story Mode content. I do see people in gen chat refusing to take DPS with fewer than 33K HPs for Story Modes, though, so I know it happens. Regardless, if you are running the best craftable 66s than as a Sin/Shadow, Jugg/Guardian, PT/Vanguard you should be more than sufficiently geared for the content, especially with geared Guildmates.

 

We ran two new members to the guild through DF/DP tonight with one in only the 66s that come from the Oricon questline, and one in two piece 69s that dropped for him in TfB/S&V runs the prior week. One died and it took effort to keep him and the other healed up on the Council, but we got it done. DF/DP drop 69s/72s and can be done in 66s if everyone is on their toes. TfB/S&V drop 69s and are more than able to be cleared in unoptimized 66s.

 

You are more than geared enough for the Story Modes, and if your guild as a whole wanted to help you learn and progress then they'd have you in there running the content. I really do suggest if you're wanting to get in there you speak up with them or you look elsewhere. There's no reason you should have to sit out until you grind yourself a full set of 72s or 78s.

 

This reminds me of the time on my older server, Peragus Mining Facility, where some guilds demanded that people were using Rakata-level armor, earpieces, implants, MH & OH, in order to run EV HM.

 

Kind of a paradox really...

[Prototypemind]

edit: With the next gear reset, Bioware should for example not introduce such a big gap in HP between end game and "fresh max level" tanks. This way low HP wouldn't be such a problem. There is a difference of 9k between me and one of our top Tank in our guild.

 

That's just the nature of optimizing over time. What they have done, however, is not only given you a full set of 66s for completing Oricon, but the chance at a free piece of 66 armoring from the CZ Weekly, as well as creds out the wazoo to buy additional pieces. I once more recommend that you join a guild that doesn't act like everyone logs in from day one in full set bonuses and optimized mods. Better guilds that want to help new members have other players dedicated to helping them, or a weekly run focused on teaching content, progressing, and learning to work as a team. Join a guild that does this and I promise your experience will be vastly different.

[Prototypemind]

This reminds me of the time on my older server, Peragus Mining Facility, where some guilds demanded that people were using Rakata-level armor, earpieces, implants, MH & OH, in order to run EV HM.

 

Kind of a paradox really...

 

Indeed. Silly as hell to say that you need the gear that the content drops. If that were the case no one could ever run Ops in the first place.

 

Another example for the OP: I just got my Sniper to 55 two days ago. Yesterday in an assorted jumble of gear I had lying around made up of 66/69s and a 72 head piece purchased from extra Elites on an alt, as well as an one Campaign and one Arkanian Relic I helped a group clear the Dread Council when they had a higher geared DPS drop prior. Sub 30K HP, so perhaps I would have been turned away by others, maybe even by them if they weren't in need of finishing the run before the reset later. Regardless, I optimized with what I had available: I made sure my accuracy was at 100%, got the relics I could, and knew my rotations. I stuck with them through two wipes--which honestly two is nothing, but players are becoming less and less patient--while the raid leader went over certain aspects with players again and in the end we downed it.

 

I want to make sure I've said this enough: if your guild won't help you learn the content and progress, join one who will. The one you're in clearly isn't dedicated to helping new players coming into endgame.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Prototypemind