Two Birds, One Stone: The Pit Stop

[OscarDivine]

As we've all noticed, there is a large degree of suggestion regarding the capital ship changes made (so-called "defense strike"). The proposal that is going around that I think has the most support so far is the idea of pushing the exhaustion zone into the capital ships, or perhaps even, more easily, pushing the capital ships into the exhaustion zone. I see it in nearly every thread where someone makes a new, very complicated, very drawn out suggestion that might be effective, though would require some serious coding changes in many of these cases for a singular purpose.

 

I'd like to propose a similar idea, except that it also combines with it an idea that my friends and I have been toying around with.

 

We have all seen requests for in-round Component Swapping. I'd like to propose the following:

 

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When within proximity of a friendly Capital Ship (not a spawning point or hyperspace beacon), you will start a 5-second count-down. If you do not exit the zone within 5 seconds, you will enter the Ship Modification Menu (Pit Stop Menu), whereby you change your components. This will not come without serious penalty. You will be at a full stop, though invulnerable to enemy attack and unable to leave the menu for 90-seconds (blocking view of the screen as the menu normally does). All health and shields would be restored during this time, as well as weapons, engines, and munitions. Leaving the zone gives you the "Pit Stop" Buff, which would give you 5 seconds of unlimited engine power.

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Enemy ships in this zone would be shot down by the capital ship turrets, which would be re-activated. It will prevent spawn point camping for both teams as the penalty for doing so is too high. It allows for in-match component swapping, which we would all love. The "Pit Stop" buff would allow a player to easily escape the possibility of being immediately gunned down by nearby gunships without penalty.

Edited February 27, 2014 by OscarDivine
grammar sp

[Danylia]

... unable to leave the menu for 90-seconds

90 seconds in incredibly long time in GSF.

[Umbradomina]

90 seconds in incredibly long time in GSF.

 

True... but the OP's idea as a whole had merit. My thoughts are:

 

 

1. 10 seconds to leave the capital ship before being dumped into the Refit Screen, and
   
2. If you go into Refit, it's a 45 second lockout.
   

 

How's that?

[OscarDivine]

90 seconds in incredibly long time in GSF.

 

There must be a penalty and 60 seconds might be too short in some opinions. Other opinions have said that it should be a full 2 minutes. 90 seconds was the agreed upon middle ground. I agree, 90 seconds is a long time. I've seen battles decided and completely won in under 4 minutes. Regardless of the timer, there has to be a penalty that is substantial for the player in the pit stop. What do you think of the rest of the concept though?

[OscarDivine]

True... but the OP's idea as a whole had merit. My thoughts are:

 

 

1. 10 seconds to leave the capital ship before being dumped into the Refit Screen, and
   
2. If you go into Refit, it's a 45 second lockout.
   

 

How's that?

 

Firstly, this is not my concept singularly. This is the collective work of myself and my teammates, ideas we hashed out with one another and came up with together. I will not take all credit for this concept.

 

There are several different ways to mitigate the time out of battle. One way is to have say a 10 second countdown followed by a 50 second lockout in Pit Stop Menu for a total of 60 seconds out of battle. Perhaps the total time out of battle should be decided first, then the individual breakdowns. I think that 15 seconds is too long because gunships can still out-range the ship cannons and if a player trying to refit doesn't move far enough into the capital ship zone, they will be in a virtual cage for 15 seconds waiting for the refit to begin. As well, 15 seconds gives the player too much flexibility to dip into the zone for a quick escape from an enemy then Barrel Roll / Koigran Turn / Snap Turn right out of the zone before the timer runs out. It MUST be kept short.

[TUXs]

No. The change is a GREAT change. The whole safe zone idea was stupid.

[OscarDivine]

If you don't think that spawn camping and shooting ships in the back end the second they spawn is a potentially game-breaking issue right now, I don't know what to tell you

[TUXs]

If you don't think that spawn camping and shooting ships in the back end the second they spawn is a potentially game-breaking issue right now, I don't know what to tell you

 

I think it beats the issue of running back to your capital ship for protection, which I saw as equally "game breaking". I played plenty of GSF matches yesterday...not once did my team spawn camp or get spawn camped.

[ptwonline]

I think it beats the issue of running back to your capital ship for protection, which I saw as equally "game breaking". I played plenty of GSF matches yesterday...not once did my team spawn camp or get spawn camped.

 

I think the main difference is that one will cause people to quit, the other won't.

Edited February 27, 2014 by ptwonline

[TUXs]

I think the main difference is that one will cause people to quit, the other won't.

 

Valid point. Since I enjoy GSF, I'd like it to be as fun as possible for all players...I hated the Cap Ships, but I don't like the thought of players quitting either. Don't the 3 spawn locations help prevent this though?

[OscarDivine]

You assume that players realize they can change their spawn location. I've realized that many players don't even know how to change their spawn location. This really should be added to the load-screen blurbs.

[TUXs]

You assume that players realize they can change their spawn location. I've realized that many players don't even know how to change their spawn location. This really should be added to the load-screen blurbs.

 

100% agree!!!

 

A flashing "CHOOSE SPAWN LOCATION→" would help...

[OscarDivine]

100% agree!!!

 

A flashing "CHOOSE SPAWN LOCATION→" would help...

 

haha we could definitely use this. Regardless, I'd love to see some type of ability to change load outs mid-match.

[mr_sim]

Interesting that this discussion is coming form JC players, As we don't have a noticeable spawn camping problem. Though I was in one match Tuesday where Repub set a GS line on spawn I kind of laughed.

 

What ever happens we do need to ensure Derpship tactics like running to mommy don't happen in TDM.

 

I'd be in favor of your idea if it was ship swaping, but component swap well........

 

in many cases currently you can use your cartel ship as an alternate component build though we do need a CM version of the Quell and Blackbolt still. So I'm not sure about component swap.

 

If there were compont swap it should adda 30-60 second wait timer.

[RiVaN_]

90 seconds in incredibly long time in GSF.

 

90 seconds is a min and a half, I have been in matches that only last 5 min or less. 90 seconds could be a VERY long wait time. Maybe a 30 mandatory wait, but you can uncheck the ready box and stay an extra 10 - 20 seconds if you are still swapping components.

 

I really like this idea, I hope one of the Dev's actually reads this post.

 

Interesting that this discussion is coming form JC players, As we don't have a noticeable spawn camping problem. Though I was in one match Tuesday where Repub set a GS line on spawn I kind of laughed.

 

What ever happens we do need to ensure Derpship tactics like running to mommy don't happen in TDM.

 

I'd be in favor of your idea if it was ship swaping, but component swap well........

 

in many cases currently you can use your cartel ship as an alternate component build though we do need a CM version of the Quell and Blackbolt still. So I'm not sure about component swap.

 

If there were compont swap it should adda 30-60 second wait timer.

 

Are you kidding me? (JC Player here)

I was involuntarily involved in A LOT of "spawn camping" before the Cap Ship change. But hey, you go where the enemy is and the team on the ropes would hover around their Cap ship if they were losing badly. So we went after them and kept them pressed up against their spawn ships.

Now the problem is that every match is mostly all gunships and bombers making their 11000 meter wall of "you shall not pass" Dogfighting is dieing.

I work for my $ and don't buy cartel coins and therefore do not have a CM Scout. I have what can be bought with Fleet Req. Yes I am a cheapskate and I won't spend $15 of real money just to be able to buy a ship to fly in GSF.

That being said I think being able to make minor load out changes in the Spawn Screen would be a plus. Say allowing you to change Primary and secondary weapons and maybe Co-Pilots. anything else would be to much.

Edited February 28, 2014 by RiVaN_

[OscarDivine]

Interesting that this discussion is coming form JC players, As we don't have a noticeable spawn camping problem. Though I was in one match Tuesday where Repub set a GS line on spawn I kind of laughed.

 

What ever happens we do need to ensure Derpship tactics like running to mommy don't happen in TDM.

 

I'd be in favor of your idea if it was ship swaping, but component swap well........

 

in many cases currently you can use your cartel ship as an alternate component build though we do need a CM version of the Quell and Blackbolt still. So I'm not sure about component swap.

 

If there were compont swap it should adda 30-60 second wait timer.

 

It definitely happens on our server. I know this because we spent the first full day doing it to prove a point about the spawn points and being pushed back to them being devastating to the opposing team. You don't even have to CAMP on top of the spawn, just having all of your dog fights occur right next to them is enough with excellent pilots to continuously pick off the players as they're just feeding the grinder. Regardless, let's agree that it's still a problem overall, regardless of which server we're talking about. Think you'd agree?

 

Regarding the Pit Stop, I would agree that a ship swap might also be part of the pit stop (as it would return you to your regular load-out menu), but perhaps this could increase the timer an additional 15 seconds or something. I suppose we could now get into an argument that you should then also be allowed to change your ships in your hangar bay while waiting in a queue also, etc, etc. I'm honestly not even sure why they don't allow you to change loadouts while in queue and change ships in your hangar bay? What's the story on that anyway? Anybody?

[Sidenti]

Valid point. Since I enjoy GSF, I'd like it to be as fun as possible for all players...I hated the Cap Ships, but I don't like the thought of players quitting either. Don't the 3 spawn locations help prevent this though?

 

You tell me!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=725825

[RiVaN_]

 

Regarding the Pit Stop, I would agree that a ship swap might also be part of the pit stop (as it would return you to your regular load-out menu), but perhaps this could increase the timer an additional 15 seconds or something. I suppose we could now get into an argument that you should then also be allowed to change your ships in your hangar bay while waiting in a queue also, etc, etc. I'm honestly not even sure why they don't allow you to change loadouts while in queue and change ships in your hangar bay? What's the story on that anyway? Anybody?

 

I'm gonna speculate that they only coded in the ability to chose from 5 ships while in a match and trying to expand that to allow you to chose from all of your ships would be to hard to code in.

Or they wanted to limit players to only 5 choices during a match so that you had to be more strategic in your pre match planning.

[OscarDivine]

that's actually not so bad. I've seen that sometimes set up camp that way with a mine layer and a drone carrier for a TDM behind a defensive asteroid. Regardless, I think we can all agree, spawn camping was not solved by the most recent solution. Why not get more bang for your buck with a change that makes us all happy and not just placated.

[RiVaN_]

that's actually not so bad. I've seen that sometimes set up camp that way with a mine layer and a drone carrier for a TDM behind a defensive asteroid. Regardless, I think we can all agree, spawn camping was not solved by the most recent solution. Why not get more bang for your buck with a change that makes us all happy and not just placated.

 

Agreed.

[Sidenti]

that's actually not so bad. I've seen that sometimes set up camp that way with a mine layer and a drone carrier for a TDM behind a defensive asteroid. Regardless, I think we can all agree, spawn camping was not solved by the most recent solution. Why not get more bang for your buck with a change that makes us all happy and not just placated.

 

There's a sharp difference between doing so around an unarmed, neutral asteroid... and an enemy battlecruiser.

[OscarDivine]

There's a sharp difference between doing so around an unarmed, neutral asteroid... and an enemy battlecruiser.

 

haha okay I won't argue there, except you now have only a 1 in 3 chance that someone will spawn at your location now, wait, let's change that to 2/3 because of the lack of common sense among newbie players

[Sidenti]

haha okay I won't argue there, except you now have only a 1 in 3 chance that someone will spawn at your location now, wait, let's change that to 2/3 because of the lack of common sense among newbie players

 

A full 12-man squadron can cover all three spawn locations to the point of choke. 4 to a spawn. Even a timed mass spawn isn't a guaranteed way out of it.

[MaximilianPower]

I'm gonna speculate that they only coded in the ability to chose from 5 ships while in a match and trying to expand that to allow you to chose from all of your ships would be to hard to code in.

Or they wanted to limit players to only 5 choices during a match so that you had to be more strategic in your pre match planning.

 

It's either this, or an illogical tie to ground pvp. Meaning, in ground, once you queue, you can no longer spend/redistribute skill points. This was done to stop players from completely switching spec mid-match, i.e. a bunch of dps turning into tanks and healers in voidstar on defense, which would inevitably lead to a stalemate.

 

I get why they did that, but the logic does not necessarily carry over into GSF. I'm hoping this isn't the reason loadouts can't be changed once queued, but a dev would have to confirm.

 

Re: the proposal - I'm still mulling it over, but I do like the general idea. I agree that the latest "fix" hasn't fixed anything at all. This has the makings of a real solution and is one of the few suggestions I've seen to that end. It's mostly a matter of hashing out the details.

[OscarDivine]

Well, that is part of why I wanted to post this idea on the forum here. I would love to what others think of the idea as well as how to improve it. At this point, I would agree that 90 seconds is far too long and that we may even want to consider swapping ships in the hangar bay too. Looking for more feedback and exposure, of course.