Make Storm as a baseline skill! Please devs

[Lucardes]

Seriously I can't imagine not having it, I mean im forced not to have it because of going full assult for pvp but man oh man oh man ill take a baseline storm over any needed pvp buff for vanguards.

 

Who's with me?

 

Dev's please please please consider this.

[morfius]

I don't know about PvP but in PvE play swapping from Tank to DPS rub me wrong when I lose Storm, VG is only 1 melee DPS with no gap closer (Scoundrel at least can use stealth to close).

/signed

[AdamLKvist]

Seriously I can't imagine not having it, I mean im forced not to have it because of going full assult for pvp but man oh man oh man ill take a baseline storm over any needed pvp buff for vanguards.

 

Who's with me?

 

Dev's please please please consider this.

 

Leap and pull baseline on the same class? Not going to happen. This change would mean you lose pull to the tank tree, otherwise? No way in hell.

[AmagonofBloodfin]

Leap and pull baseline on the same class? Not going to happen. This change would mean you lose pull to the tank tree, otherwise? No way in hell.

 

yes, a thousand times yes.

 

you took a ranged class and made all it's ranged abilities 10m, and yet every other melee class has some sort of closing ability on a way shorter cd.

 

Juggernauts

• Force Charge - 30m - 15s
  
• Obliterate - 10m - 15s << spec
  

 

Assassins

• Force Speed - 150% - 20s
  
• Force Pull - 30m - 45s <<spec
  

 

Operatives

• Stealth - natural closer
  
• Exfiltrate - 12m - no CD
  

 

Powertechs

• Grapple - 30m - 45s
  
• Jet Charge - 30m - 15s << spec
  

 

as you can see, you basically give the PT/Van the longest CD ability as their default "closer" where everyone else get's their 15-20sec abilities as their default and only have to spec into their secondary movement based ability if they want something extra. this needs to change.

 

as I posted on the other thread, if you moved things around we would at least be brought in line with the other melee classes in terms of CD closer time. The other alternative would be to shorten grapple/harpoon to 15 seconds and increase storm to 45 seconds but I feel like that would really suck for pve.

 

All in all I think the easiest way to satisfy most people would be to move Storm and Force Pull to baseline and keep their CD timers as they are presently. I think before when Vanguards were more ranged with 30m abilities this made sense but now they are much more like assassins without the same closers up as often.

[AdamLKvist]

as I posted on the other thread, if you moved things around we would at least be brought in line with the other melee classes in terms of CD closer time. The other alternative would be to shorten grapple/harpoon to 15 seconds and increase storm to 45 seconds but I feel like that would really suck for pve.

 

All in all I think the easiest way to satisfy most people would be to move Storm and Force Pull to baseline and keep their CD timers as they are presently. I think before when Vanguards were more ranged with 30m abilities this made sense but now they are much more like assassins without the same closers up as often.

 

You can't take two abilities out of an entire toolkit. Of course comparing isolated abilities will be in favour of X class. Your suggestion is bad, it will and should never happen, make a choice which one you want because you will not get both.

 

PTs already lack counters in PvP...

[AmagonofBloodfin]

You can't take two abilities out of an entire toolkit. Of course comparing isolated abilities will be in favour of X class. Your suggestion is bad, it will and should never happen, make a choice which one you want because you will not get both.

 

PTs already lack counters in PvP...

 

in case you haven't noticed all I have compared is the only translatable data. For all the classes to which melee is prevalent, I have compared their gap closing abilities. In that regards I absolutely can compare two abilities out of each respective toolkit because not only are they both 'apples', but each one is almost a clone of it's counterpart.

 

I also don't think you can read very well because I only gave one actual suggestion which was to move all of the movement based gap closers for the shadow/vanguard to baseline abilities. Those two ACs have become so similar with the changes that came to VG not long ago that they are almost mirrors. However now that I think about it I believe my chart should be adjusted to compensate for shadows stealth. So my final analysis would take storm and make that a baseline ability and keep the shadows as they are presently.

Edited February 27, 2014 by AmagonofBloodfin

[AdamLKvist]

in case you haven't noticed all I have compared is the only translatable data. For all the classes to which melee is prevalent, I have compared their gap closing abilities. In that regards I absolutely can compare two abilities out of each respective toolkit because not only are they both 'apples', but each one is almost a clone of it's counterpart.

 

I also don't think you can read very well because I only gave one actual suggestion which was to move all of the movement based gap closers for the shadow/vanguard to baseline abilities. Those two ACs have become so similar with the changes that came to VG not long ago that they are almost mirrors. However now that I think about it I believe my chart should be adjusted to compensate for shadows stealth. So my final analysis would take storm and make that a baseline ability and keep the shadows as they are presently.

 

No.

 

Ability to stay within melee once there counts. (Perma slow auto attacks, or knife, hold the line)

 

Etc... You are simply not considering the ramifications of what you've proposing. What would be the counter to a leaping vanguard who can pull you when you make your escape? No effort, yet your target will die. No, just no.

Edited February 27, 2014 by AdamLKvist

[Lucardes]

No.

 

Ability to stay within melee once there counts. (Perma slow auto attacks, or knife, hold the line)

 

Etc... You are simply not considering the ramifications of what you've proposing. What would be the counter to a leaping vanguard who can pull you when you make your escape? No effort, yet your target will die. No, just no.

 

I understand where you're coming from but the problem is THE ONLY WAY vanguard can have storm and be efficient is to only go tank spec period otherwise we lose it. Is that how the other classes also behaves? Thing is in pvp it's not fiull tank that's viable for Vanguard and that's why we lost storm usually.

[AdamLKvist]

I understand where you're coming from but the problem is THE ONLY WAY vanguard can have storm and be efficient is to only go tank spec period otherwise we lose it. Is that how the other classes also behaves? Thing is in pvp it's not fiull tank that's viable for Vanguard and that's why we lost storm usually.

 

Your class is not balanced around storm for DPS specs.

 

(You can do a fun hybrid though - definitely viable for regs. For ranked? You're not supposed to have storm and be balanced around it.)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GRGMzMboZ0cZfhrrzRb.3

[Frenesi]

Can't they just switch them? Place harpoon in tanking tree and make storm a baseline? I can't see how it will change things in PVP - both are gap closers there, and tanks have both anyway. And in PVE we will finally have something to follow bosses.

[Lucardes]

Can't they just switch them? Place harpoon in tanking tree and make storm a baseline? I can't see how it will change things in PVP - both are gap closers there, and tanks have both anyway. And in PVE we will finally have something to follow bosses.

 

^ This

[AmagonofBloodfin]

Can't they just switch them? Place harpoon in tanking tree and make storm a baseline? I can't see how it will change things in PVP - both are gap closers there, and tanks have both anyway. And in PVE we will finally have something to follow bosses.

 

because then, your vanguards will effectively remain neutral and still not as utility important as shadows who would also get their cloak. the way i look at it, you let shadows keep their cloak and their run, spec into a pull and then let vanguards get their pull and run and another tanking tree ability.

[KnightTyler]

In the Tactics tree you already get a 15% movement speed bonus, along with numerous slows from procs, and a 10s cooldown reduction on Harpoon. Hold the Line is increased to 10s and that in itself CAN be used to close distance when necessary. So no, in my opinion Tactics does not need Storm baseline.

 

In the Assault Specialist tree, your main procs are 10m range. Explosive surge has a 8m radius. Stockstrike and Riot Strike(your interrupt) are the only 4m abilities Vanguard has.(Tactics has 1 additional 4m ability Gut but Gut is used to proc other effects through its DoT) You have a spammable 6 second slow both from Ion pulse(10 meter range) and Explosive Surge (8m range). So again, no, Assault Specialist does not need Storm baseline.

 

The biggest problem I see from Scoundrel Scrapper DPS and Vanguard DPS is they think they are a true melee class when they really aren't. A true melee class is Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow. As a Vanguard DPS you aren't meant to close in and stay right in 4m range. You are meant to be a mid-range skirmisher closing in to 4m to get your procs then returning (kiting) back to 10m ranges and greater. You do this closing in and returning constantly in the course of a fight. If you stay in 4m ranges when you have the ability to be at 10m ranges, then you are taking unnecessary damage. The class is setup with 10m range abilities and 30m range abilities for their convenience and people still don't properly play these classes.

 

In Tactics, Gut gives you a whole 15s window before having to reapply it. Ion pulse is 10m range and procs a free Stockstrike. Run up, Stockstrike for High Impact Bolt proc then return(kite) back to 10m ranges. Stockstrike has a 9 second cooldown but High Impact Bolt has a 15s cooldown so you essentially don't have to reapply Stockstrike proc for 15s. That gives you basically a 15s window between closing in on your enemy for 2 globals then returning back to 10m ranges so that gives you plenty of time to utilize your 10m abilities and greater (Minus the fact you will have to close in for a Riot Strike interrupt every now and then but that is situational). If you are in 4m range constantly, then you are taking unnecessary damage. Some people just like to do it for the cool factor but that's not how the class is meant to be played. Pulse Cannon and Ion pulse both have a 10m range as well.

 

In Assault Specialist, Explosive surge (which has a 8m radius) and Ion Pulse proc your plasma cell effects and the only other procs are from Stockstrike (9s cooldown) that procs your High Impact Bolts to hit harder and procs additional effects. In Assault, you only have to close in every 9 seconds to proc your stockstrike effects and that still leaves you plenty of time to back off to 10m ranges and greater before closing in again. If your target starts to run away when you need to reapply your effects, simply Hold the Line and Cryo grenade or Harpoon them to you. You have plenty utility to kite and anti-kite, especially with 2 abilities in your rotation that are spammable slows.

 

Scoundrel Scrapper tree functions the same way, but you don't get in the thick of the fight. You pick off a lone target, slip out of stealth, do all your scattergun damage then return(kite) to 10m ranges until your scattergun procs are ready again. If people would play like this, the way its meant to be played, they would see their survivability increase as well as their performance because they wont be taking so much unnecessary damage.

 

I didn't list full rotations above, I simply listed effects from procs to show the time window that Vanguard DPS has before they have to close back in to 4m ranges for a split second to reapply their procs then return to 10m ranges. The trick is kiting your enemy so that you are never in 4m ranges unless you have to apply procs. 10 - 4 = 6 so you have 6 meters to play with of no DPS loss that Sentinels, Guardians, and Shadows can't afford without a DPS loss since they have to stay with 4m ranges 100% of the time(Shadows 90% of the time lol). (Although Balance Shadows function similar to Vanguard DPS with being a mid-range skirmisher due to their array of 10m abilities, their tree is not set up to provide as long of a window out of 4m ranges that Vanguard DPS gets, hence they are still considered pure melee)

 

Everyone likes to act like Vanguards and Scoundrels are "PURE" melee DPS but they simply aren't. They are labeled as Close-Quarters Damage on the Holonet which I believe fits their combat role perfectly. Take a look at Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow and it clearly says Melee Damage. Just look at the skill trees yourself and think logically. The Scrapper, Tactics and Assault Specialist(Vanguard) trees are built around skirmishing your foe. Once more, I will say: if you are in 4m range all the time as a Scoundrel or Vanguard DPS, you are taking unnecessary damage.

 

You can disagree with me, but before you do I encourage you to take some time to play like I said and only close in to 4m range for your procs and interrupts. You will notice a huge change in your survivability and your performance will reflect this. Of course, it all comes down to player skill and if your a baddie then it may be hard for you at first, but if you keep trying to play and learn you will become a better player. Let the HATERS commence.

Edited January 30, 2015 by KnightTyler

[AmagonofBloodfin]

In the Tactics tree you already get a 15% movement speed bonus, along with numerous slows from procs, and a 10s cooldown reduction on Harpoon. Hold the Line is increased to 10s and that in itself CAN be used to close distance when necessary. So no, in my opinion Tactics does not need Storm baseline.

 

In the Assault Specialist tree, your main procs are 10m range. Explosive surge has a 8m radius. Stockstrike and Riot Strike(your interrupt) are the only 4m abilities Vanguard has.(Tactics has 1 additional 4m ability Gut but Gut is used to proc other effects through its DoT) You have a spammable 6 second slow both from Ion pulse(10 meter range) and Explosive Surge (8m range). So again, no, Assault Specialist does not need Storm baseline.

 

The biggest problem I see from Scoundrel Scrapper DPS and Vanguard DPS is they think they are a true melee class when they really aren't. A true melee class is Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow. As a Vanguard DPS you aren't meant to close in and stay right in 4m range. You are meant to be a mid-range skirmisher closing in to 4m to get your procs then returning (kiting) back to 10m ranges and greater. You do this closing in and returning constantly in the course of a fight. If you stay in 4m ranges when you have the ability to be at 10m ranges, then you are taking unnecessary damage. The class is setup with 10m range abilities and 30m range abilities for their convenience and people still don't properly play these classes.

 

In Tactics, Gut gives you a whole 15s window before having to reapply it. Ion pulse is 10m range and procs a free Stockstrike. Run up, Stockstrike for High Impact Bolt proc then return(kite) back to 10m ranges. Stockstrike has a 9 second cooldown but High Impact Bolt has a 15s cooldown so you essentially don't have to reapply Stockstrike proc for 15s. That gives you basically a 15s window between closing in on your enemy for 2 globals then returning back to 10m ranges so that gives you plenty of time to utilize your 10m abilities and greater (Minus the fact you will have to close in for a Riot Strike interrupt every now and then but that is situational). If you are in 4m range constantly, then you are taking unnecessary damage. Some people just like to do it for the cool factor but that's not how the class is meant to be played. Pulse Cannon and Ion pulse both have a 10m range as well.

 

In Assault Specialist, Explosive surge (which has a 8m radius) and Ion Pulse proc your plasma cell effects and the only other procs are from Stockstrike (9s cooldown) that procs your High Impact Bolts to hit harder and procs additional effects. In Assault, you only have to close in every 9 seconds to proc your stockstrike effects and that still leaves you plenty of time to back off to 10m ranges and greater before closing in again. If your target starts to run away when you need to reapply your effects, simply Hold the Line and Cryo grenade or Harpoon them to you. You have plenty utility to kite and anti-kite, especially with 2 abilities in your rotation that are spammable slows.

 

Scoundrel Scrapper tree functions the same way, but you don't get in the thick of the fight. You pick off a lone target, slip out of stealth, do all your scattergun damage then return(kite) to 10m ranges until your scattergun procs are ready again. If people would play like this, the way its meant to be played, they would see their survivability increase as well as their performance because they wont be taking so much unnecessary damage.

 

I didn't list full rotations above, I simply listed effects from procs to show the time window that Vanguard DPS has before they have to close back in to 4m ranges for a split second to reapply their procs then return to 10m ranges. The trick is kiting your enemy so that you are never in 4m ranges unless you have to apply procs. 10 - 4 = 6 so you have 6 meters to play with of no DPS loss that Sentinels, Guardians, and Shadows can't afford without a DPS loss since they have to stay with 4m ranges 100% of the time(Shadows 90% of the time lol). (Although Balance Shadows function similar to Vanguard DPS with being a mid-range skirmisher due to their array of 10m abilities, their tree is not set up to provide as long of a window out of 4m ranges that Vanguard DPS gets, hence they are still considered pure melee)

 

Everyone likes to act like Vanguards and Scoundrels are melee DPS but they simply aren't. They are labeled as Close-Quarters Damage on the Holonet which I believe fits their combat role perfectly. Take a look at Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow and it clearly says Melee Damage. Just look at the skill trees yourself and think logically. The Scrapper, Tactics and Assault Specialist(Vanguard) trees are built around skirmishing your foe. Once more, I will say: if you are in 4m range all the time as a Scoundrel or Vanguard DPS, you are taking unnecessary damage.

 

You can disagree with me, but before you do I encourage you to take some time to play like I said and only close in to 4m range for your procs and interrupts. You will notice a huge change in your survivability and your performance will reflect this. Of course, it all comes down to player skill and if your a baddie then it may be hard for you at first, but if you keep trying to play and learn you will become a better player. Let the HATERS commence.

 

you understanding of pvp is so limited it's quite shocking. alright let's just give this very basic example a try....

 

let's say you are guarding a door on voidstar. so around the 20x20 box you will on average have 10-14 in said box. EVEN if you keep your target inside 10m but further than 4m you are still going to be within the melee range of at least 4-5 other opponents at almost all times. which mean what kids? oh right, you're a melee class.

 

if this was open pvp sure, you can kite and maybe you'll be able to stop warriors from jumping to you every 5 seconds but probably not - it's a melee class dude, you can argue the ten meters all you want but when your pvp is based around objective content where you must be in close proximity to objectives and you don't have 30m+ range - you're melee.

[Ayakin_Solaris]

Storm is a fun ability, especially in Huttball (in fact given the chance, I'd re-spec to tank tree for every Huttball game for that), but given the choice between that or Harpoon, I'd stick with Harpoon. Far better imo to have the ability to pull an enemy out and isolate him and it has better synergy with your abilities (especially in Tactics).

 

Would love to have Storm as baseline as well as Harpoon, but I think it may make the class a bit OP'd.

[Frenesi]

In the Tactics tree you already get a 15% movement speed bonus, along with numerous slows from procs, and a 10s cooldown reduction on Harpoon. Hold the Line is increased to 10s and that in itself CAN be used to close distance when necessary. So no, in my opinion Tactics does not need Storm baseline.

 

In the Assault Specialist tree, your main procs are 10m range. Explosive surge has a 8m radius. Stockstrike and Riot Strike(your interrupt) are the only 4m abilities Vanguard has.(Tactics has 1 additional 4m ability Gut but Gut is used to proc other effects through its DoT) You have a spammable 6 second slow both from Ion pulse(10 meter range) and Explosive Surge (8m range). So again, no, Assault Specialist does not need Storm baseline.

 

The biggest problem I see from Scoundrel Scrapper DPS and Vanguard DPS is they think they are a true melee class when they really aren't. A true melee class is Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow. As a Vanguard DPS you aren't meant to close in and stay right in 4m range. You are meant to be a mid-range skirmisher closing in to 4m to get your procs then returning (kiting) back to 10m ranges and greater. You do this closing in and returning constantly in the course of a fight. If you stay in 4m ranges when you have the ability to be at 10m ranges, then you are taking unnecessary damage. The class is setup with 10m range abilities and 30m range abilities for their convenience and people still don't properly play these classes.

 

In Tactics, Gut gives you a whole 15s window before having to reapply it. Ion pulse is 10m range and procs a free Stockstrike. Run up, Stockstrike for High Impact Bolt proc then return(kite) back to 10m ranges. Stockstrike has a 9 second cooldown but High Impact Bolt has a 15s cooldown so you essentially don't have to reapply Stockstrike proc for 15s. That gives you basically a 15s window between closing in on your enemy for 2 globals then returning back to 10m ranges so that gives you plenty of time to utilize your 10m abilities and greater (Minus the fact you will have to close in for a Riot Strike interrupt every now and then but that is situational). If you are in 4m range constantly, then you are taking unnecessary damage. Some people just like to do it for the cool factor but that's not how the class is meant to be played. Pulse Cannon and Ion pulse both have a 10m range as well.

 

In Assault Specialist, Explosive surge (which has a 8m radius) and Ion Pulse proc your plasma cell effects and the only other procs are from Stockstrike (9s cooldown) that procs your High Impact Bolts to hit harder and procs additional effects. In Assault, you only have to close in every 9 seconds to proc your stockstrike effects and that still leaves you plenty of time to back off to 10m ranges and greater before closing in again. If your target starts to run away when you need to reapply your effects, simply Hold the Line and Cryo grenade or Harpoon them to you. You have plenty utility to kite and anti-kite, especially with 2 abilities in your rotation that are spammable slows.

 

Scoundrel Scrapper tree functions the same way, but you don't get in the thick of the fight. You pick off a lone target, slip out of stealth, do all your scattergun damage then return(kite) to 10m ranges until your scattergun procs are ready again. If people would play like this, the way its meant to be played, they would see their survivability increase as well as their performance because they wont be taking so much unnecessary damage.

 

I didn't list full rotations above, I simply listed effects from procs to show the time window that Vanguard DPS has before they have to close back in to 4m ranges for a split second to reapply their procs then return to 10m ranges. The trick is kiting your enemy so that you are never in 4m ranges unless you have to apply procs. 10 - 4 = 6 so you have 6 meters to play with of no DPS loss that Sentinels, Guardians, and Shadows can't afford without a DPS loss since they have to stay with 4m ranges 100% of the time(Shadows 90% of the time lol). (Although Balance Shadows function similar to Vanguard DPS with being a mid-range skirmisher due to their array of 10m abilities, their tree is not set up to provide as long of a window out of 4m ranges that Vanguard DPS gets, hence they are still considered pure melee)

 

Everyone likes to act like Vanguards and Scoundrels are melee DPS but they simply aren't. They are labeled as Close-Quarters Damage on the Holonet which I believe fits their combat role perfectly. Take a look at Guardian, Sentinel and Shadow and it clearly says Melee Damage. Just look at the skill trees yourself and think logically. The Scrapper, Tactics and Assault Specialist(Vanguard) trees are built around skirmishing your foe. Once more, I will say: if you are in 4m range all the time as a Scoundrel or Vanguard DPS, you are taking unnecessary damage.

 

You can disagree with me, but before you do I encourage you to take some time to play like I said and only close in to 4m range for your procs and interrupts. You will notice a huge change in your survivability and your performance will reflect this. Of course, it all comes down to player skill and if your a baddie then it may be hard for you at first, but if you keep trying to play and learn you will become a better player. Let the HATERS commence.

 

Yous just don't have any idea what you are talking about, right? Scrapper/conc isn't a melee class? Have you ever tried to play one? I really want to see how you will use backstabs, shivs and lacerations from 10 meters. Please, make a video of it.

 

Hve you ever tried to do any ops? Have you seen the size of boss arenas there? 10 meter distance (which is BS already) won't help you there. And hold the line is pathetic - you still are forced to go on foot, while any rdps and warriors just need to get to 30 meters. And operatives will get free exfiltrate next patch.

 

This game is based on PVE. Yes, PVP is important part, but don't try to say you don't need something only from one point.

[ScytheEleven]

No.

 

We do not need Storm as a baseline. Nor should it be replaced with Harpoon. We are hybrid melee, and as pointed out already, deadly in PVP at the moment. I PVE on my PT (HM DF/DP), though I like to PVP more. Target switching and staying on mobile bosses is a lot easier on my PT than my Mara because of the range of my PT's abilities. As for PVP, I would rather have my pull than a leap. It gives so much more utility to your PVP group.

 

Giving Storm as a baseline will just swing the nerfbat at PT's. Don't do it.

[Lucardes]

No.

 

We do not need Storm as a baseline. Nor should it be replaced with Harpoon. We are hybrid melee, and as pointed out already, deadly in PVP at the moment. I PVE on my PT (HM DF/DP), though I like to PVP more. Target switching and staying on mobile bosses is a lot easier on my PT than my Mara because of the range of my PT's abilities. As for PVP, I would rather have my pull than a leap. It gives so much more utility to your PVP group.

 

Giving Storm as a baseline will just swing the nerfbat at PT's. Don't do it.

 

PT and Vanguards are not 100% the same so your conclusion on how PT is deadly is not a shared sentiment with Vanguards...

 

In any case you have no idea how STORM is better than Harpoon because it INTERRUPTS while harpoon you need to skill in it to make it so it stuns.

 

Again IF more than 50% of our abilities are melee and AS someone mentioned here pvp is mostly melee, we need a closer period. Storm is the most fun ability for the class atleaast make it 1 tier less! it wont make us OP!! wth are you all talking about.

[AdamLKvist]

PT and Vanguards are not 100% the same so your conclusion on how PT is deadly is not a shared sentiment with Vanguards...

 

In any case you have no idea how STORM is better than Harpoon because it INTERRUPTS while harpoon you need to skill in it to make it so it stuns.

 

Again IF more than 50% of our abilities are melee and AS someone mentioned here pvp is mostly melee, we need a closer period. Storm is the most fun ability for the class atleaast make it 1 tier less! it wont make us OP!! wth are you all talking about.

 

lol

 

 

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 5 characters.

[ScytheEleven]

PT and Vanguards are not 100% the same so your conclusion on how PT is deadly is not a shared sentiment with Vanguards...

 

 

 

 

What

 

PT and VGs are the same. That statement makes no sense.

[Ottoattack]

PT and Vanguards are not 100% the same so your conclusion on how PT is deadly is not a shared sentiment with Vanguards...

 

Mmmmm... what?! VG=PT, it's a mirror class...

 

Storm is not, should not and will never be a VG base skill. The reasoning why storm should not be a base skill was discussed many times before, just to summarize: range options, HTL, harpoon, 2 hard CCs and above all, will only provide additional 20-50 dps in PvE, if so. You want a leap? Go play marauder.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Ayakin_Solaris]

PT and Vanguards are not 100% the same so your conclusion on how PT is deadly is not a shared sentiment with Vanguards...

 

In any case you have no idea how STORM is better than Harpoon because it INTERRUPTS while harpoon you need to skill in it to make it so it stuns.

 

Again IF more than 50% of our abilities are melee and AS someone mentioned here pvp is mostly melee, we need a closer period. Storm is the most fun ability for the class atleaast make it 1 tier less! it wont make us OP!! wth are you all talking about.

 

Oh dear, lol.

 

Vanguards and Powertechs are EXACTLY the same; the two classes are the mirror of each other. The only things that are different are the names of the abilities and their animations. The damage, cast times and skill trees are EXACTLY the same.

 

Also, harpoon DOES interrupt casts; by virtue of pulling your target towards you, you are interrupting whatever they were casting.

 

I have a 55 Vanguard and a 55 Powertech and have played both PvE and PvP. In PvE, storm is NEEDED as a vanguard tank. For a vanguard dps, it is not necessary because the majority of your abilities don't require you to be in melee range.

 

The skill trees are shared between PvP and PvE and whilst from a dps perspective in PvE, harpoon is pretty much redundant, in PvP it is exremely useful.

 

Having both Harpoon and Storm as baseline skills in PvP would make the vanguard dps builds op'd. As you could Harpoon a target, attack them and then if they try to escape with force speed or a roll, you could then just storm straight to them.

[ReclaimerDonar]

Sorry, but i would rather have harpoon than storm as a DPS. We are in excellent place in pvp, so STORM would send us to Soontobenerfed list...

[julienfs]

What we need is a harpoon cd reduction where it is needed aka the assault tree. We really need some extra utility and that would do a bit. Or you know what would be even better, make harpoon be usable on allies, that would make my day.

 

This and a dps boost for tactical. Oh and how about you ditch the fake boring proc system like "40% 80% high impact bolt proc on ion pulse and stockstrike with 6cd internal cd(or smth like this)" by something a lot more fun and less predictable like "dots have x% chance to reset high impact bolt cd when it ticks without any internal CD.

Edited March 3, 2014 by julienfs

[Gyronamics]

What we need is a harpoon cd reduction where it is needed aka the assault tree. We really need some extra utility and that would do a bit. Or you know what would be even better, make harpoon be usable on allies, that would make my day.

 

This and a dps boost for tactical. Oh and how about you ditch the fake boring proc system like "40% 80% high impact bolt proc on ion pulse and stockstrike with 6cd internal cd(or smth like this)" by something a lot more fun and less predictable like "dots have x% chance to reset high impact bolt cd when it ticks without any internal CD.

 

Yeah sure, fire all dots and keep spamming dots on multiple players for permanent hib procs and huge ammo regen.

 

Players are greedy and selfish about their own classes.