FabulousDoctor Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Hello, and I'm here to tell the forums all about how the Consular is the most influential and important of all the classes within the story, when it comes to influencing the outcome of the war, as many seem to think it 'does nothing' or is 'boring and unheroic'. Lets start with chapter 1, where the Consular single handily saves the Jedi Council and the Jedi as a whole from corruption, death, and utter annihilation. This act has mostly obvious effects, what with the Jedi being a main military asset in the Republic. As you go about this, you learn of spies and seditionists within the republic. Chapter 2 has the Consular traveling all over the galaxy and bringing allies old and new back into the Republic, knowing that the republic as it stood was not ready for war with the Sith Empire. You rebuild the Republic anew with your own words and actions, and create an army that can match that of the Sith Empire, a warlike nation. In chapter 3 the Consular takes this new, untrained and untested, army and leads it into battle against the greatest forces of the empire - she inspires with both deed and action them to push on, and leads to the Empire's main military defeat. Throughout this, she takes the time to hunt down and kill those who poison sentiment against the republic for the Empire, and acts as a major force of solidity behind the scenes, keeping inner threats at bay even as she gathers the strength against outer threats. The Consular isn't put up as the great hero of the republic - the Trooper and Jedi Knight are both recognized as true heroes, while the Smuggler gets a small private ceremony (and a pirate fleet). The Consular gets a small private ceremony, and is otherwise not considered noteworthy. The Consular is the unsung hero, the one who pulled the Republic from the jaws of defeat, and pushed them into the arms of victory. Next time you say they are boring, think about the fact that what they do matters more than literally any other classes' story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millardkillmoore Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Pretty much. The Knight saves everyone on both sides of the war from dying, but the Consular is the one who most helps the Republic war effort. They just don't get much acknowledgement. It's similar to how the Bounty Hunter does more to help the Imperial war effort than the Agent, Warrior, and Inquisitor, but never gets credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadishist Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) Jedi care about getting credit? It's nothing but vanity. Edited February 26, 2014 by Sadishist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) They just don't get much acknowledgement. It's similar to how the Bounty Hunter does more to help the Imperial war effort than the Agent, Warrior, and Inquisitor, but never gets credit. I disagree here...Remember the warrior had a pretty big impact during Act 2...Killing Chancellor Janarus was a bad move as he was all about keeping the peace. Then he got replaced by the pro-war Saresh. That didnt help the Imperial war effort at all Edited February 26, 2014 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Wicked Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I disagree here...Remember the warrior had a pretty big impact during Act 2...Killing Chancellor Janarus was a bad move as he was all about keeping the peace. Then he got replaced by the pro-war Saresh. That didnt help the Imperial war effort at all Janarus can be killed, frozen in carbonite and delivered to Tormen or be allowed to resign. It's player-choice determined. People should stop talking like the canon is already in place to be honest. - - - - Either way, to each his own I guess. Played each storyline at least twice and as far as I'm concerned, it's not that hard to see which character actually has the more meaningful role overall. After that, it's just a splitting hair kind of thing, where people just try to explain their character, in whatever class, is more special than the other. Edited February 26, 2014 by Darth_Wicked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millardkillmoore Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I disagree here...Remember the warrior had a pretty big impact during Act 2...Killing Chancellor Janarus was a bad move as he was all about keeping the peace. Then he got replaced by the pro-war Saresh. That didnt help the Imperial war effort at all Janarus is killed well after the peace was over. The Warrior's actions lead to the Empire going to war too early. Then the Warrior removes a competent leader from ruling the Empire and keeps the insane Emperor in power. The BH meanwhile manages to take out the man that could command Hylo Visz's fleet, take out the woman that could lead multiple worlds into the war on the side of the Republic, and crush the leaders of the Corellian resistance before taking down the Supreme Chancellor. The Sith classes focus on internal politics and the Agent deals with a threat to both sides while the BH actually helps the war effort. Edited February 26, 2014 by Millardkillmoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenesi Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Janarus is killed well after the peace was over. The Warrior's actions lead to the Empire going to war too early. Then the Warrior removes a competent leader from ruling the Empire and keeps the insane Emperor in power. The BH meanwhile manages to take out the man that could command Hylo Visz's fleet, take out the woman that could lead multiple worlds into the war on the side of the Republic, and crush the leaders of the Corellian resistance before taking down the Supreme Chancellor. The Sith classes focus on internal politics and the Agent deals with a threat to both sides while the BH actually helps the war effort. Actually, agent is the reason of imperial failure on Corellia. Basicly you declared that Empire is about to get reinforcements. Cabal reacted by "balancing" the Republic forces, so they can match imperials after they get help - reinforcements that never existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millardkillmoore Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Actually, agent is the reason of imperial failure on Corellia. Basicly you declared that Empire is about to get reinforcements. Cabal reacted by "balancing" the Republic forces, so they can match imperials after they get help - reinforcements that never existed. ...meaning that the Agent harms the war effort. Just like the SI and their feud with Thanaton. Once more, the BH is the only one that does any work fighting the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthunder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hmm this is a bold claim. I've played all class stories except JK. It could be argued that BH killed a Chancellor who was about to be impeached. The SI sought only personal power. The IA let millions of imperial citizens die and served as a Republic spy. The SW contributed to the Emperor's "death" by killing his voice and weakening him. The Smuggler was actually helping the two traitors. The Trooper and Consular I can't think of anything. My point is that they all contributed equally, just in different ways. Your personal opinion dictates which one u like best though. IMO Consular is best. Save Jedi Masters from a spirit as a Padawan, get the Republic help from an alliance of worlds, get the Esh-ka army, root out Sith sleeper agents and incapacitate their alpha The First Son/Cyo Bakarn? Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticara Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 >liking a ****** Mary Sue character I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but damn that's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabulousDoctor Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 >liking a ****** Mary Sue character I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but damn that's bad. >Thinking any of the characters aren't Mary Sues. Jedi Knight Rises from being a padawan who has yet to even have a proper master to killing the Emperor in a matter of weeks/months, as well as killing multiple sith lords and darths through the story. Sith Warrior Rises from a new recruit in the academy who has yet to even take a single trial to becoming the Emperor's Wrath and showing their power over the council. Kills multiple Jedi masters, jedi strike teams, sith lords, and darths. Trooper In a matter of months takes a squad that had black marks for defectors and not only defeats these defectors (considered the best in the Republic) but kills the general of the imperial military. Probably the least sueish. Bounty Hunter From a hotshot rookie to invading a republic warship, killing a jedi grandmaster in weeks. This is only Act 1. Going on to hunt down and defeat a mandalorian who even the best hunters in the galaxy could not get before, then a pirate so feared that stories are told of him to scare children. Smuggler From a no-name pilot smuggling weapons to the single handed destroyer of an Imperial Moff's hold on the underworld, becoming crown prince(ss) of the underworld in the course of it. Agent LITERALLY THE ONLY COMPETENT PERSON IN THE EMPIRE. Talks down or kills a Dark Council member, goes on to kill multiple darths and sith. Kills multiple jedi masters/grandmasters. Stops a hundred thousand year old shadow cabal that manipulated both sides. Consular Cures the jedi masters of a force-plague, then goes on to unite all of the former republic worlds to fight the Empire again, leading them to retake all the worlds the Empire had taken. Inquisitor Literal slave who in a matter of days rose from slavehood to being considered one of the most powerful Sith ever. Gathers enough sith artifacts and power that aside from a few members of the Dark Council (Debatable) and the emperor himself, she is considered the most powerful Sith in existence. Every single character is a mary sue. The Consular and Agent are just the only ones who do useful things with their sue-tude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticara Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Every single character is a mary sue. The Consular and Agent are just the only ones who do useful things with their sue-tude. Sorry, I should've clarified. I meant to say that the Consular is a god mode sue. Chosen one? Check. Learns a super special secret technique nobody else knows? Check. Able to recruit a chaotic evil race of lunatics for the Republic just like that? Check. Roots out a virtually undetectable sleeper agent network all on his own, wins the whole *********** war AND has several star systems under his direct control? Check, check and check. Face it. The Consular is by far the most blatantly overpowered character of this game. Only the Inquisitor has comparable power, and atleast he's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FabulousDoctor Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I should've clarified. I meant to say that the Consular is a god mode sue. Chosen one? Check. Learns a super special secret technique nobody else knows? Check. Able to recruit a chaotic evil race of lunatics for the Republic just like that? Check. Roots out a virtually undetectable sleeper agent network all on his own, wins the whole *********** war AND has several star systems under his direct control? Check, check and check. Face it. The Consular is by far the most blatantly overpowered character of this game. Only the Inquisitor has comparable power, and atleast he's funny. Well, the Consular doesn't single handedly win the war. If you play through the Agent storyline you learn about how the big scary illuminati organization has plans in place to stop the Consular's Rift Alliance. And then the Agent kills them all. The Agent is directly responsible for the Consular winning. (He also is responsible for the Empire not being beaten back in chapter 1 though, so it sorta levels out.) Edit: Also, it depends on what you mean by 'single handily most powerful', because the Jedi Knight is the one set up as being The Chosen One. He's the one from prophecy, who is more powerful than any other, fated to stop the Emperor. I don't remember any prophecy choosing the Consular, just that she was 'the most powerful with the force that we've seen in a long time'. And the Sith Warrior is Chosen of the Emperor, and considered one of the most powerful Sith in existence. And well, you already got into the Inquisitor, who by the end of their story has harnessed power from dozens of ancient artifacts, gained themselves the title of Darth, and could probably beat up any Dark Council member if they wanted to. All four of the Force using classes are overpowered story wise. Edited March 5, 2014 by FabulousDoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airmo Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 And well, you already got into the Inquisitor, who by the end of their story has harnessed power from dozens of ancient artifacts, gained themselves the title of Darth, and could probably beat up any Dark Council member if they wanted to. All four of the Force using classes are overpowered story wise. I think it was said somewhere that the Inquisitor is the weakest of the council, not sure if they meant politically or force wise though. Just chiming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiRaphElan Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 >Thinking any of the characters aren't Mary Sues. Every single character is a mary sue. The Consular and Agent are just the only ones who do useful things with their sue-tude. That's incorrect. A character who does amazing feats is not a Mary Sue. I can't find it offhand, but there's a table that shows the definition of Mary Sue, and your post is definitely *not* it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits Edited March 5, 2014 by drakensang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiRaphElan Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CommonMarySueTraits My point is, SWTOR characters are not Mary Sues, they're Player Characters–which can be incredibly similar, but they're two different things entirely. Technically our characters are required to do amazing things because they are the PCs, but that doesn't make them Sues. By your definition, even Luke Skywalker is technically a Gary Stu. People overuse the term Mary Sue/Gary Stu so much it makes me sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I should've clarified. I meant to say that the Consular is a god mode sue. Chosen one? Check I remember a brief mention of the Consular being pretty strong in the force during the intro, but calling them a "chosen one" is a stretch. There certainly wasn't any bullroar about centuries old prophetic visions involving them, unlike, shall we say, certain other Jedi classes. Learns a super special secret technique nobody else knows? Check. By being in the right place at the right time. Granted I suppose they could've passed on their knowledge to other Jedi, but them learning it in the first place didn't seem all that unique. Able to recruit a chaotic evil race of lunatics for the Republic just like that? Check. You mean the minor subfaction of Eshka who don't want to kill everything, which for a self aware, independantly thinking species isn't at all unexpected? The regular Eshka stay in their vaults. Roots out a virtually undetectable sleeper agent network all on his own After being blind to the presence of two of them for weeks/months. You don't even discover the identitiy of the first son through any real talent of your own, beyond one of your companions just sort of stumbling across the evidence on an imperial ship. wins the whole *********** war They certainly pull their weight, but they don't exactly win the war alone. Hell, the forces the Consular recruits are barely enough to retake the Guardian Holds. They're pretty much spent after that. I'm also inclined to argue the Republic wins Corellia as much out of Imperial self-sabotaging bumbling as any talent on their part. AND has several star systems under his direct control? Wat. I mean, hey, they're kind of a big deal, and the story has an annoying amount of 'you're the only one who can do this!' going on during it, but no more so than the others. The only major problem I had with it was how quickly you get made a jedi master. That part's kind of silly. Edited March 6, 2014 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I think the Consular is made a Master at exactly the right time. All the force using classes save knights get promoted after Act I, and justly so. It is more silly that the knight defeats a Darth and his collection of Lords and is not made a master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 My point is, SWTOR characters are not Mary Sues, they're Player Characters–which can be incredibly similar, but they're two different things entirely. Technically our characters are required to do amazing things because they are the PCs, but that doesn't make them Sues. By your definition, even Luke Skywalker is technically a Gary Stu. People overuse the term Mary Sue/Gary Stu so much it makes me sick. And Harry Potter and Wesley Crusher and Corran Horn and the Skirata-guy who was always right in the Karen Traviss novels and dozens more. In literature it is considered bad style if the author inserts a characters who is a flawless representative of their personal views. In an MMORPG, unless you play deliberately against your own character, it is pretty normal. So yes, you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiRaphElan Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 And Harry Potter and Wesley Crusher and Corran Horn and the Skirata-guy who was always right in the Karen Traviss novels and dozens more. In literature it is considered bad style if the author inserts a characters who is a flawless representative of their personal views. In an MMORPG, unless you play deliberately against your own character, it is pretty normal. So yes, you are right. Horn and Skirata are widely believed to be Stu's, but they are not. For one thing, they actually have flaws. Corran is arrogant, thinks he's always right, and he admits it, but it is a part of him–ergo, not Stu. Skirata openly admits he is a fiery-tempered, grumpy man who has done a lot more bad in his life than good and he's trying to atone for it. I wouldn't know about Harry Potter, and I never saw Crusher as a Stu, although I can see it more in him than either Horn or Skirata. So there you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakensang Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) Horn and Skirata are widely believed to be Stu's, but they are not. For one thing, they actually have flaws. Corran is arrogant, thinks he's always right, and he admits it, but it is a part of him–ergo, not Stu. Skirata openly admits he is a fiery-tempered, grumpy man who has done a lot more bad in his life than good and he's trying to atone for it. I wouldn't know about Harry Potter, and I never saw Crusher as a Stu, although I can see it more in him than either Horn or Skirata. So there you go. Ah yes, the word flawless was wrong. The problem with a Sue's flaws is that they are without consequences. Being an arrogant jerk who never lets his arrogance mess anything up is pointless. Being fiery-tempered is without meaning, if all your important decisons are calculated and well thought out. Our characters are sue-ish not only because they are exceptional and do great deeds. That comes with being the hero. They are sue-ish because their flaws are without conseqeunces. My seers overconfidence will never really get the silly trandoshan who believes him to be a religious figure killed. His cockiness will never mess a diplomatic situation up to a degree that the republic looses an ally. Edited March 6, 2014 by drakensang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoshiRaphElan Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 The problem with a Sue's flaws is that they are without consequences. Being an arrogant jerk who never lets his arrogance mess anything up is pointless. Being fiery-tempered is without meaning, if all your important decisons are calculated and well thought out. But they do have consequences. More than once, Corran has gotten himself into a bad situation and even some of his allies killed because of his overconfidence and arrogance. And as for Skirata...why don't you ask his ankle if being fiery-tempered has consequences, because IIRC, he got a round shot through his leg by a superior officer for his attitude. So what if he calculates his decisions well? That doesn't necessarily negate his temper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaliaya Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Wrong. Without Knight all other classes deeds would be worthless... .... because everyone would die without him. He also does some war effords on Alderaan and Corellia, and maybe Taris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeters Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I think the Consular is made a Master at exactly the right time. All the force using classes save knights get promoted after Act I, and justly so. Sith characters get promoted from apprentices, though. Aren't they supposed to be roughly equviliant to a padawan? Edited March 7, 2014 by Bleeters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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