Can we please get rating based on ALL stats in solo ranked and not just w/l...

[Anubiran]

If you want to be rewarded for "not sucking" then form your own premade.

 

sorry but again that is not the solution. It would be the solution if group ranked and solo ranked would play in the same matchmaking.

 

We are talking here about another rating system for a complete other experience

 

Those who are too averse to the effort of forming a premade may run into a streak of "incredible bad luck". That's the chance they take when queuing solo, though.

 

Yes but what is good about that ? Why is relying on "luck" a good thing ? BW has the ability to decrease the amount of luck needed in skill based game. And ranked pvp is skill based. Or at leased BW says its skill based.

 

I dont see a single reason why they shouldnt reduce the "luck" factor out of that.

 

Its just not fun at all.

 

Having bad luck does not wants me to learn more about my class or getting better because if the others suck i just cant do a damn thing about it.

 

But if my rating is skill based i want to be better that the other 3 guys in my team and so i try to learn my class and get BIS gear. It would be way more encouraging.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Anubiran

[Anubiran]

Now you want rewards without risk?

 

How about PVP deaths incur durabilty loss and repair bills, then?

 

The risk of failure in tanked PVP is the loss of rating. The risk of failure is PVE is repair bills.

 

The two are not the same, but they server the same function as each is a penalty for failure.

 

 

My example with not loosing rating was to show how it would be equal to flashpoints queing as a solo player.

If i could change that for repair bills hell yeah!

[TUXs]

Truth hurt much?

 

No truth, no hurt...I just find it extremely inflammatory and inappropriate. Answer the question.

[NoFishing]

No. You can ALWAYS queue again. You are NOT limited in the number of attempts you get to gain rankings.

 

Do you actually do ranked PvP? (For the record, I don't, I'm strictly a PvE person these days)

 

If an ops group wipes - nothing bad happens except for a small repair bill and a bit of time spent. You can try again with a different ops group, and the rewards won't be diminished at all.

 

If your ranked team wipes, you lose ranking, making getting the season rewards less likely regardless of your individual performance. It doesn't matter how many times you've wiped on HM Dread Council, you still get a chance at a MH every time you kill it.

 

Your argument that people can form their own team if they want to control who they play with is valid. It is as true for PvE as it is PvP. But PvE equivalent to the ranked solo queue would be HM/NiM operations in GF, and people don't even bother with GF for SM ops anymore.

[Ratajack]

sorry but again that is not the solution. It would be the solution if group ranked and solo ranked would play in the same matchmaking.

 

We are talking here about another rating system for a complete other experience

 

 

 

Yes but what is good about that ? Why is relying on "luck" a good thing ? BW has the ability to decrease the amount of luck needed in skill based game. And ranked pvp is skill based. Or at leased BW says its skill based.

 

I dont see a single reason why they shouldnt reduce the "luck" factor out of that.

 

Its just not fun at all.

 

Having bad luck does not wants me to learn more about my class or getting better because if the others suck i just cant do a damn thing about it.

 

But if my rating is skill based i want to be better that the other 3 guys in my team and so i try to learn my class and get BIS gear. It would be way more encouraging.

 

If you want to reduce the "luck" factor then form your own premade. The only time "luck" comes into it is when you are too averse to the effort of forming a premade group adn instead choose to take the "easier" option of queuing solo.

[Ratajack]

No truth, no hurt...I just find it extremely inflammatory and inappropriate. Answer the question.

 

I made my point, but the OP and a few others want to ignore the truth.

 

Instead, they want BW to cater to them and change the current reward system so that they can play the way they want and do so without the inherent risk that currently exists.

 

Does that not sound like a petulant, spoiled child that expects Mommy to cater to him? It does to me.

[Anubiran]

If you want to reduce the "luck" factor then form your own premade. The only time "luck" comes into it is when you are too averse to the effort of forming a premade group adn instead choose to take the "easier" option of queuing solo.

 

Again.

 

It has nothing to do with being to "averse" of forming a premade.

Please forget that argument.

 

Its about an option Bioware implemented to cater pvp players that maybe:

 

dont have the time to be online at a given time,

dont have 3 people they want to pvp with,

dont like having to maintain online friendships,

cant talk over teamspeak or WHATEVER reason.

 

The reason does not matter.

 

We are talking about a legitime form implemented by Bioware to be able to play ranked solo.

In my opinion they never really thought it through. They copied the existing system from WoW for ratings and arena.

That is fine. It works for premades only.

 

No one ever has done solo ranked pvp before. Maybe because of the reason we are facing now.

The system is not perfect it needs to be tuned. Thats a normal process. Its something new it needs its own rules and thats what we are trying to do here.

 

And hell i dont want something for free. I worked my *** of to get BIS Pvp gear. With 2.7 i will do it gladly again. I dont have any problems with players are being better than me. It encourages me to get better.

 

But i have a problem with the factor of luck needed to play ranked solo succesfully.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Anubiran

[NoFishing]

I made my point, but the OP and a few others want to ignore my holier-than-thou opinion and extremely condescending tone.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Ratajack]

Again.

 

It has nothing to do with being to "averse" of forming a premade.

Please forget that argument.

 

Its about an option Bioware implemented to cater pvp players that maybe:

 

dont have the time to be online at a given time,

dont have 3 people they want to pvp with,

dont like having to maintain online friendships,

cant talk over teamspeak or WHATEVER reason.

 

The reason does not matter.

 

We are talking about a legitime form implemented by Bioware to be able to play ranked solo.

In my opinion they never really thought it through. They copied the existing system from WoW for ratings and arena.

That is fine. It works for premades only.

 

No one ever has done solo ranked pvp before. Maybe because of the reason we are facing now.

The system is not perfect it needs to be tuned. Thats a normal process. Its something new it needs its own rules and thats what we are trying to do here.

 

And hell i dont want something for free. I worked my *** of to get BIS Pvp gear. With 2.7 i will do it gladly again. I dont have any problems with players are being better than me. It encourages me to get better.

 

But i have a problem with the factor of luck needed to play ranked solo succesfully.

 

Again, the rewards for ranked PVP, whether you queue solo or with a premade, are based on the success or failure of the GROUP, not the solo player.

 

BW simply gave players an option to queue solo, just as players can queue solo for FP's or OPS. That option to queue solo does NOT change the reward system for either PVE or PVP, however.

 

The same factor of "luck" exists when a player queues solo for FP'sor OPS.

[Ratajack]

Fixed that for you.

 

You can ignore the truth all you want, but it is still the truth.

[NoFishing]

BW simply gave players an option to queue solo, just as players can queue solo for FP's or OPS. That option to queue solo does NOT change the reward system for either PVE or PVP, however.

 

And again, it isn't the same. The PvE bosses drop loot every single time they are killed. Wiping on them does not cause them to say "haha, now you have to kill me twice before I will drop loot". The rewards in PvE do not become "harder" to achieve because you had a string of bad groups, or even if your raid team just had a bad night.

Edited March 17, 2014 by NoFishing

[NoFishing]

You can ignore the truth all you want, but it is still the truth.

 

If it was truth, you wouldn't need to resort to condescension and insults.

[Anubiran]

Again, the rewards for ranked PVP, whether you queue solo or with a premade, are based on the success or failure of the GROUP, not the solo player.

 

BW simply gave players an option to queue solo, just as players can queue solo for FP's or OPS. That option to queue solo does NOT change the reward system for either PVE or PVP, however.

 

The same factor of "luck" exists when a player queues solo for FP'sor OPS.

 

Yeah thats the point! Just the opposite. Its NOT the same factor of luck needed to be succesful in solo ranked. You dont loose anything.

 

But i dont want to explain it again and again. I think everyone else gets the huge difference.

 

So hopefully BW reads this and maybe thinks about it.

 

See you in ranked

[Ratajack]

And again, it isn't the same. The PvE bosses drop loot every single time they are killed. Wiping on them does not cause them to say "haha, now you have to kill be twice before I will drop loot". The rewards in PvE do not become "harder" to achieve because you had a string of bad groups, or even if your raid team just had a bad night.

 

Do you not gain rating every time your group "succeeds" and wins, just as the boss drops loot every time that PVE group "succeeds" and kills him?

 

Does a PVE'er not incur repair bills every time the group "fails" and wipes, or even if the group succeeds and that player is the only one who dies, just as the PVP'er who's group "fails" and loses will incur a loss to his rating?

[Ratajack]

Yeah thats the point! Just the opposite. Its NOT the same factor of luck needed to be succesful in solo ranked. You dont loose anything.

 

But i dont want to explain it again and again. I think everyone else gets the huge difference.

 

So hopefully BW reads this and maybe thinks about it.

 

See you in ranked

 

Meanwhile, I will be here asking that BW keep the current reward system in place and keep the rewards based on GROUP performance.

[NoFishing]

Do you not gain rating every time your group "succeeds" and wins, just as the boss drops loot every time that PVE group "succeeds" and kills him?

 

Does a PVE'er not incur repair bills every time the group "fails" and wipes, or even if the group succeeds and that player is the only one who dies, just as the PVP'er who's group "fails" and loses will incur a loss to his rating?

 

Repair bills in PvE do not make it harder to receive loot. You can wipe on the council 10 times and then kill them, and have the exact same loot as if you just oneshot them. The only difference will be you will have fewer credits, due to the repair bills, however there are other ways in the game to earn those credits back. There is no other way to gain ranking.

 

So yes, with every win PvPers will gain ranking. But losing 10 and winning 20 is not the same ranking as winning 10 and losing none, even though in both cases you've won 10 more matches than you've lost.

 

If you are not seeing the difference now, and seeing why the comparison to PvE doesn't really work, I don't know what else can be said.

[Ratajack]

Repair bills in PvE do not make it harder to receive loot. You can wipe on the council 10 times and then kill them, and have the exact same loot as if you just oneshot them. The only difference will be you will have fewer credits, due to the repair bills, however there are other ways in the game to earn those credits back. There is no other way to gain ranking.

 

So yes, with every win PvPers will gain ranking. But losing 10 and winning 20 is not the same ranking as winning 10 and losing none, even though in both cases you've won 10 more matches than you've lost.

 

If you are not seeing the difference now, and seeing why the comparison to PvE doesn't really work, I don't know what else can be said.

 

BW set up both the ranked PVP and PVe rewards systems to reward based on GROUP performance. BW set up both the PVP and PVE queuing systems so that players can queue solo or in premades, but the reward system remains the same in either case--GROUP based.

 

Why is it that I am only seeing PVP'ers crying that the reward system needs to be changed so that they can play the way they want to play and do so without the risk inherent in the way they want to play?

 

We've even had one PVP'er suggest that players NEVER lose ranking.

[NoFishing]

Why is it that I am only seeing PVP'ers crying that the reward system needs to be changed so that they can play the way they want to play and do so without the risk inherent in the way they want to play?

 

As I said, I'm not a PvP'er. And I suspect neither are you. At least not in ranked.

 

And virtually nobody here has said that group performance shouldn't be a factor. Only that it shouldn't be the ONLY factor for solo ranking. For group ranking, things are fine. But solo ranked players find themselves at the mercy of a matchmaking system that has proven itself to be quite silly in some of the matches it creates.

[Ratajack]

As I said, I'm not a PvP'er. And I suspect neither are you. At least not in ranked.

 

And virtually nobody here has said that group performance shouldn't be a factor. Only that it shouldn't be the ONLY factor for solo ranking. For group ranking, things are fine. But solo ranked players find themselves at the mercy of a matchmaking system that has proven itself to be quite silly in some of the matches it creates.

 

Let's eliminate the convenience of being able to queue solo. That will take the luck factor out of the equation.

 

If PVP'ers want the convenience of not having to have a premade, then they should also be willing to accept that they may be "unlucky" and find themselves grouped with "less then leet" players, and not come crying that BW needs to cater to them so that they can have all of the convenience and none of the risk.

[NoFishing]

If PVP'ers want the convenience of not having to have a premade, then they should also be willing to accept that they may be "unlucky" and find themselves grouped with "less then leet" players, and not come crying that BW needs to cater to them so that they can have all of the convenience and none of the risk.

 

Ah, so you think the ranked PvP system is absolutely perfect and couldn't be improved in any way, or at least not by any suggestion that a player might have. Got it.

[Ratajack]

Ah, so you think the ranked PvP system is absolutely perfect and couldn't be improved in any way, or at least not by any suggestion that a player might have. Got it.

 

I never said that the PVP system couldn't be improved, but it does not need to have the reward system currently in place changed so that some players can play the way they want to play and do so without any risk.

 

 

Do you REALLY think that the ranked PVP system should be set up, as one poster suggested, such that a player NEVER loses rank?

[NoFishing]

I never said that the PVP system couldn't be improved, but it does not need to have the reward system currently in place changed so that some players can play the way they want to play and do so without any risk.

 

 

Do you REALLY think that the ranked PVP system should be set up, as one poster suggested, such that a player NEVER loses rank?

 

No, but that wasn't even his primary suggestion, and also wasn't made by the OP or any of the other 3 or 4 people who have commented. Nobody has actually asked for risk-free solo ranked PvP. That is just you making a strawman.

[Ratajack]

I never said that the PVP system couldn't be improved, but it does not need to have the reward system currently in place changed so that some players can play the way they want to play and do so without any risk.

 

 

Do you REALLY think that the ranked PVP system should be set up, as one poster suggested, such that a player NEVER loses rank?

 

 

No, but that wasn't even his primary suggestion, and also wasn't made by the OP or any of the other 3 or 4 people who have commented. Nobody has actually asked for risk-free solo ranked PvP. That is just you making a strawman.

 

Allow me to quote that poster:

 

That is true!

 

But.

 

Failing in a FP does not have such a consequence as in a rated game.

You loose some time and credits but you can start again from the same point.

 

If we want to make it fair:

Everyone starts at 900 rating but cant loose rating points. Then we can compare queing for OPs and FPs solo and solo ranked.

 

I also never said i want to completly get rid of group success, just a more fair way.

 

You will still win if you win and lose if you suck. But you have the chance, if you are really good, to be at least a bit rewarded for having bad luck. Thats the only point.

 

That sure sounds like someone asking for risk free ranked PVP and not just for solo players.

 

 

Here's a novel concept. How about actually playing the game without asking for handouts?

 

Yes, asking BW to change the current reward system so that you can queue solo for ranked PVP without having to risk being grouped with "less than leet" players is asking for handouts.

[Aieranda]

I just don't see what they can do with the limitations of not have cross server queues and thus a match making system that struggles. We can't even fully evaluate if their match making works because of low numbers of those lining up to do ranked on many servers.

 

In terms of performance per player, that can be masked or gamed right now. Let's say you are regarded as the worst DPS spec (you might be a great player in great gear, perfect stim, etc...) but you are left to be killed until last by the opponents. You can rack up your damage score while the opponents are busy stun-lock/rooting, and focus killing the first DPS they pick out to kill. Let's say you get focused down first and you do everything right with properly eluding stuns and roots as best as possible, using defensive cooldowns and medpac, but your team's healer just doesn't heal you for whatever reason and you die first. Your DPS is down because you spent a bunch of time staying alive and it's harder to pull pure DPS while doing that AND you die first.

 

I mean. It just doesn't work, and that's just the DPS example. It's a problem in warzones too.

 

I had someone recently bragging to the rest of the team in a close loss about their great DPS and how they were not the reason we lost. They had 700,000 DPS in a Voidstar but few kills to go with it. Well, 700,000 damage in a Voidstar is rather easy to get IF you are not killing in a way that supports objectives (aka if you are not focusing with your team mates to rapidly kill opponents, in particular the healers). Generally, the only way to get such high DPS with low kills is to let the enemy healers heal away, otherwise the enemies die too fast to get that much damage racked up.

 

Most likely that person was focusing a tank or DPS alone and said target had at least a pocket healer keeping them going so he wasted the whole match on non-critical targets to inflate his damage score. I know that person was not attacking the healers because as a tank I was pestering both enemy healers for much of the match while trying to prot nearby allies and stymie bomb planters. Was this guy ever shooting at the healers with his 700k damage score? Likely not, even though the healers were marked. So should that guy, with the highest DPS in the match on our team get bonus rating if this were still the days of ranked 8 warzones when it's pretty clear that person was only there to kill whatever he felt like killing and just ragging on the rest of the team for not being able to carry his solo play style kicks of killing whatever he feels like and not coordinating at all AND calling everyone bads while he was at it? Absurd.

 

Again, just one match example in one random queue. There are all kinds of circumstances that can lead to abuse of scoring as the game sits presently. A LOT of changes need to be made to improve matters. I'm not dead set against new ideas, but just saying to recognize that it is a long road that is not an easy fix.

[Aieranda]

I just don't see what they can do with the limitations of not have cross server queues and thus a match making system that struggles. We can't even fully evaluate if their match making works because of low numbers of those lining up to do ranked on many servers.

 

In terms of performance per player, that can be masked or gamed right now. Let's say you are regarded as the worst DPS spec (you might be a great player in great gear, perfect stim, etc...) but you are left to be killed until last by the opponents. You can rack up your damage score while the opponents are busy stun-lock/rooting, and focus killing the first DPS they pick out to kill. Let's say you get focused down first and you do everything right with properly eluding stuns and roots as best as possible, using defensive cooldowns and medpac, but your team's healer just doesn't heal you for whatever reason and you die first. Your DPS is down because you spent a bunch of time staying alive and it's harder to pull pure DPS while doing that AND you die first.

 

I mean. It just doesn't work, and that's just the DPS example. It's a problem in warzones too.

 

I had someone recently bragging to the rest of the team in a close loss about their great DPS and how they were not the reason we lost. They had 700,000 DPS in a Voidstar but few kills to go with it. Well, 700,000 damage in a Voidstar is rather easy to get IF you are not killing in a way that supports objectives (aka if you are not focusing with your team mates to rapidly kill opponents, in particular the healers). Generally, the only way to get such high DPS with low kills is to let the enemy healers heal away, otherwise the enemies die too fast to get that much damage racked up.

 

Most likely that person was focusing a tank or DPS alone and said target had at least a pocket healer keeping them going so he wasted the whole match on non-critical targets to inflate his damage score. I know that person was not attacking the healers because as a tank I was pestering both enemy healers for much of the match while trying to prot nearby allies and stymie bomb planters. Was this guy ever shooting at the healers with his 700k damage score? Likely not, even though the healers were marked. So should that guy, with the highest DPS in the match on our team get bonus rating if this were still the days of ranked 8 warzones when it's pretty clear that person was only there to kill whatever he felt like killing and just ragging on the rest of the team for not being able to carry his solo play style kicks of killing whatever he feels like and not coordinating at all AND calling everyone bads while he was at it? Absurd.

 

Again, just one match example in one random queue. There are all kinds of circumstances that can lead to abuse of scoring as the game sits presently. A LOT of changes need to be made to improve matters. I'm not dead set against new ideas, but just saying to recognize that it is a long road that is not an easy fix.