Why do people care so much about subscription numbers?

[Arkerus]

Now THAT's "milk out the nose" funny! Oh... you're serious. You poor deluded soul.

 

EA's biggest cash cow is it's sports franchises which is basically reskin and re-release as new and wait for the masses to throw money at you. I'll bet they're kicking themselves hard over dipping into the MMO market, where, y'know, you actually have to come up with new stuff occasionally.

 

smh. They always only see the huge revenue numbers that MMO's generate and never consider that their expenses are also ginormous.

 

The only thing that is funny is how you fail to see how the sports franchise IS a long term investment strategy.

 

But please, continue with the insults. You only look ridiculously ignorant of how real life operates.

 

And please expand on your wealth of business strategy and strategic planning initiatives that you have actually accomplished or been a part of.

 

Oh what's that? You don't even understand what business strategy for product differentiation is? What a surprise. And you really think that the financial analysts don't know what it costs to run an mmo? You poor deluded soul. All that work was done when even proposing the project up front.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Arkerus

[branmakmuffin]

Easy to jump to conclusions in order to bait a flame? Yes, I think we're all aware you have that issue.

If you're baited into flaming, that's your problem, not mine.

[hadoken]

If you're baited into flaming, that's your problem, not mine.

 

Sure is, there's really no point with you. That much is obvious.

[CosmicKat]

That statement pretty much proves you know nothing about how companies operate.

 

Long term strategy is always, ALWAYS on the forefront of a business strategy.

 

Immediate gain is great, but no business can operate quarter over quarter without a long term investment and return profile. Shareholders are always looking at long term gain. Its finance 101.

 

Even "evil" EA knows they need long term ROI.

 

As others have said, long term planning is a thing of the past. The stock market is all about growth. It barely even matters if you are a profitable business anymore, as long as you are growing.

 

Shareholders don't care about profitability, unless it's a dividend paying stock. If the company in question is "growing", it will increase in value and be profitable when you flip the stock.

[branmakmuffin]

Sure is, there's really no point with you. That much is obvious.

I keep my point on the pokey end, like Arya does.

[Jett-Rinn]

I can honestly say that I don't think that EA will invest much i SWTOR even if they had a healthy amount of subs, they wanted a wow killer didn't get one and have told everyone who would listen they have taken a bath with SWTOR.

 

The game has so many needs that would bring revenue in it isn't funny there is an insane amount of low hanging fruit but EA will not funnel anything more than it has to into this game, just like they did with WAR when it wasn't a WoW killer.

 

Enjoy what you have because nothing major is even on the radar.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Jett-Rinn

[branmakmuffin]

I can honestly say that I don't think that EA will invest much i SWTOR even if they had a healthy amount of subs, they wanted a wow killer didn't get one and have told everyone who would listen they have taken a bath with SWTOR.

 

The game has so many needs that would bring revenue in it isn't funny there is an insane amount of low hanging fruit but EA will not funnel anything more than it has to into this game, just like they did with WAR when it wasn't a WoW killer.

 

Enjoy what you have because nothing major is even on the radar.

Yes, here you are, paying for it.

 

[Andryah]

I'll bet they're kicking themselves hard over dipping into the MMO market, where, y'know, you actually have to come up with new stuff occasionally.

 

As a large holding company for a diverse set of entertainment products, no.. I doubt very much they are kicking themselves over any product offering, and particularly a SW MMO offering.

 

If it were not for SWTOR, I doubt EA would have gained the Exclusive license deal they did last year from Disney.

 

See a key component to long term company thinking is to think for the LONG TERM. Whereas all you are doing is pretending to understand business practices while sharing your short term views about EA.

[Andryah]

As others have said, long term planning is a thing of the past. The stock market is all about growth. It barely even matters if you are a profitable business anymore, as long as you are growing.

 

Shareholders don't care about profitability, unless it's a dividend paying stock. If the company in question is "growing", it will increase in value and be profitable when you flip the stock.

 

Sorry CK, but the stock market is NOT all about growth. Many investors invest in stocks for a variety of reasons. Growth is only one factor... and frankly for individual investors, often not the best strategy at all. The only clear commonality with stock market investors is they want to grow their total wealth.. but the actual methods and strategies for doing so are not simply about "Growth" as you used it as an investing term. The investment market is littered with "delisted" stocks on the stock exchanges.... delisted because they continued to fail to make a profit and their shareprices were beaten into the ground such that their share prices no longer meet stock exchange listing requirements. The only growth represented by these dogs are their breakup value after a private equity firm snaps them up for pennies on the dollar and sells off the pieces for quick profits as they dismantle the company.

 

And contrary to your expressed opinion, profitability for publicly traded companies is very important to investors. Watch any publicly traded companies stock performance in the days after they announce a miss on their earnings and profit guidance to the street. The stock will invariably fall prey to a major price reset (generally between 10-40% downward in a day's trading). And such stocks rarely recover their share price quickly, and some never recover at all.

 

As for long term planning by companies.. they all plan long term, and they all replan quarterly to continuously course correct their plans to be consistent with their business goals and objectives.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Andryah

[CosmicKat]

As a large holding company for a diverse set of entertainment products, no.. I doubt very much they are kicking themselves over any product offering, and particularly a SW MMO offering.

 

If it were not for SWTOR, I doubt EA would have gained the Exclusive license deal they did last year from Disney.

 

See a key component to long term company thinking is to think for the LONG TERM. Whereas all you are doing is pretending to understand business practices while sharing your short term views about EA.

 

The game can be "completed" in a couple of months. Where exactly is the long term planning in that? The prime design consideration that the entire game is built around is "fast and simplistic". That is fine for a stand-alone game, it is suicidal for an MMO.

[dscount]

I think its safe to say SWTOR is lacking in the rapid deployment of CONTENT to keep people interested in the game.

 

Lets say "All content" can be completed in a month. Then another 2 months to get all "BIS" in the highest level content. That's about 3 months (lets round up to 4 months for grins).

 

That's still 25% of the calendar year to knock out most content (In the right conditions).

 

TODAY: We get new content YEARLY... yes YEARLY. TFB stuck around for a year, S&V for a year, and now DP/DF will stick around for a YEAR before we see new Operations content. (Example I use for PVE). Content (IMHO) is one that includes SM/HM/NIM as part of that content. SM/HM and then NIM is not new content.

 

SUB Count contributes to some degree I'm sure for how much DEV time goes into new CONTENT. I would think that BW/EA would have the business model of MORE INCOME = MORE CONTENT, but that doesn't appear to be the case. In fact just the opposite. Look at the revenues reported for the last two years and see what has happened. Same pattern consistently! (View patch notes Major Rev's). You would think with the MASSIVE up swing in revenue for the CM we would be FLUSH with all new content in HALF the timeline as before, but its not happening. We are getting new CM stuff almost weekly now (2-3 weeks routinely), but still only yearly on CONTENT. Yes I've read the DEV Posts about "Different Teams" but the bottom line is the bottom line is FLUSH with cash so where is it going? Doesn't take that much cash to reskin stuff (Most stuff is reskins in CM anyways.

 

What does this mean? Speculation would seem to lean towards less SUB's or more preferred at the least. I know a great many good/great players that threw in the towel months ago (Class Balance / PVP upgrades / etc). But now we have a 2014 roadmap that basically shows the SAME model... doesn't look good. In fact I'd be willing to wager that Q1/Q2 for BW/EA is going to show even LESS SUB's due to that announcement.

 

Bottom Line: More SUBS = More Content hungry people and Less SUBS = BW inability to deliver quickly on Content.

 

Suggestion: IF BW wants to KEEP SUBS... then CONTENT should be flowing like a river... Quarterly release of 1 New Operation (Just 5 bosses) with NIM Version of that 2 months later and exactly 1 months after the NIM version of that OP another new Operation releases. Heck even a 6 month NEW OP would be great (JAN New, MAR NIM, JUN New OP2). Same with PVE and Starfighter I'm sure. Right now it appears the Starfighter is getting all the "Content Development Time" as it's heavily tied into the CM and PVP/PVE content is NOT tied into CM.

 

If we are not in maintenance mode today I'm afraid we will be soon if the "Special" stuff coming out this year is about the same or lessor quality as MAKEB and Starfighter combined.

Edited February 25, 2014 by dscount

[TravelersWay]

To say investors don't care about subs it a bit off though. "Here Investor A, we have 2'000'000" signed for the next six months which generates X amount of profit for us. Would you like to invest with us?" Says company A.

 

"No wait investor A, I have this company which is generating X amount per month from fluff sales" Says Company B.

 

"Ok so what are your projected margins for the next six months?" Asks Investor A.

 

"Not sure but looking back on what we have done over the last 6 months we predict X amount"

 

Again, no its not a bit off. Certainly a company can use it as a talking point if good (like I mentioned), but again, that is no guarantee of income as those subs can be cancelled at any time, thus the actual income then becomes less than projected. Your analogy here is a bit off as the second company can make a reasonable estimate of projected income - every single retail company does it on a daily, monthly, quarterly, and yearly basis. Target and Walmart do not charge "subscription fees" to their customers - yet they are very good at projecting what their estimated income will be when those customers come in for those "fluff" sales.

[CosmicKat]

Interestingly enough.. like all MMOs.. they have a long term plan to continue to add content and to entertain customers for years to come. Some MMOs are more successful at it then others, much like anything else in life. But to pretend otherwise just discredits what you are trying to do IMO.

 

And another interesting fact...... they don't need to retain all the same customers in perpetuity in order to meet their plans and objectives as a company producing a product. It's completely OK that the playerbase changes/recycles over time. It's also OK for players to consume and move on to something else. As long as the game continues to thrive with a respectable level of active playerbase, the game continues to grow and expand, and players continue to have fun.

 

I get that you want desperately to paint the game and the company in a perpetual negative light. But so many of your arguments lack any level of objectivity whatsoever. You can say the game is "dead to you" or that you "don't enjoy it" or "don't like it"... but you cannot make the disconnected claims like you are doing and expect anyone sensible to agree with you that the game lacks a long term plan.

 

The game did not have enough going for it to sustain its designed business model for more than 6 months.

 

This is not the sign of good planning of any kind, short or long term.

[CosmicKat]

Clearly you have a thing against Andryah if you don't think her(?) arguments are generally objective.

 

In a recent poll, "generally objective" came in at number 12,765,234 in a "phrases that best describe" that person. It just beat out "best Steven Segal movie" if I am not mistaken.

[TravelersWay]

The game did not have enough going for it to sustain its designed business model for more than 6 months.

 

This is not the sign of good planning of any kind, short or long term.

 

No, it is a sign of changing market conditions and EA moved quickly to rectify the situation. You know, kinda like the same thing that happened in '08 when the market crashed. Those businesses that changed their projections and adjusted their business models accordingly survived and many have returned to heathly, thriving status (kinda like SWTOR). Those that didn't went under. There is a long term business plan - it was in place long before the ink dried on the contract EA signed with LA to initially get the license for the IP back in '05/'06. There still is a long term business plan in place. To attempt to deny that fact just shows ignorance and does nothing to further one's own argument.

[CosmicKat]

No, it is a sign of changing market conditions and EA moved quickly to rectify the situation. You know, kinda like the same thing that happened in '08 when the market crashed. Those businesses that changed their projections and adjusted their business models accordingly survived and many have returned to heathly, thriving status (kinda like SWTOR). Those that didn't went under. There is a long term business plan - it was in place long before the ink dried on the contract EA signed with LA to initially get the license for the IP back in '05/'06. There still is a long term business plan in place. To attempt to deny that fact just shows ignorance and does nothing to further one's own argument.

 

No. It is a sign of badly misreading the wants of the MMO audience. Or arrogance in thinking they could dictate the wants of the MMO audience. Either way, bad planning.

 

Consumers are never to blame for the failure of a consumer product.

[dscount]

No. It is a sign of badly misreading the wants of the MMO audience. Or arrogance in thinking they could dictate the wants of the MMO audience. Either way, bad planning.

 

Consumers are never to blame for the failure of a consumer product.

 

I agree.. BW/EA grossly underestimated the time it would take for content locusts to finish off all 50 levels and become bored with the end game content. Instead of ramping up the deployment schedule of new content they seemed to have kept the "Safe Model" of wait and see after going F2P and micro transactions (Profitable, so spend some on content).

 

I'm afraid that even GSF is not going to distract those that are looking for new content. PVP and PVE. Why that doesn't seem to sink in just boggles my mind. Forum post after forum post is asking for more and more content for end game. Heck THROW together a single World Boss on Oricon and have it dish out the Implants the DF RNG 50% screwed up on providing the masses. That's content at least.

 

Is BIOWARE Stuck on coming up with new ideas for CONTENT? Or maybe mechanics for new content? How about a CONTEST then of the players to help come up with some creative ideas to help them out. I'm sure you throw out a couple hundred "RARE GIFTS" to folks you would get some GREAT ideas from the community. It's STAR WARS!! Droids, flying critters, force based items, evil submissions, light giving sources, etc.... come on the LORE is unlimited and options as well.

Edited February 26, 2014 by dscount

[Jett-Rinn]

I agree.. BW/EA grossly underestimated the time it would take for content locusts to finish off all 50 levels and become bored with the end game content. Instead of ramping up the deployment schedule of new content they seemed to have kept the "Safe Model" of wait and see after going F2P and micro transactions (Profitable, so spend some on content).

 

I'm afraid that even GSF is not going to distract those that are looking for new content. PVP and PVE. Why that doesn't seem to sink in just boggles my mind. Forum post after forum post is asking for more and more content for end game. Heck THROW together a single World Boss on Oricon and have it dish out the Implants the DF RNG 50% screwed up on providing the masses. That's content at least.

 

 

The problem is content has to be funded, and right now SWTOR's budget is probably that of a browser based golf game, I don't believe we will see anymore story content for SWTOR or if we do it will be a quick cash grab for content that was left on the cutting room floor when Erickson was here. I honestly think EA has the same plans for SWTOR they had for WAR five years and out with little to nothing significant produced in way of expansions or content.

[Sangrar]

Is BIOWARE Stuck on coming up with new ideas for CONTENT? Or maybe mechanics for new content? How about a CONTEST then of the players to help come up with some creative ideas to help them out. I'm sure you throw out a couple hundred "RARE GIFTS" to folks you would get some GREAT ideas from the community. It's STAR WARS!! Droids, flying critters, force based items, evil submissions, light giving sources, etc.... come on the LORE is unlimited and options as well.

 

you do know that 2.8 is the biggest content release coming to this game so far right? does that not count as a sizable release of content:rak_02:

[Slicka]

you do know that 2.8 is the biggest content release coming to this game so far right? does that not count as a sizable release of content:rak_02:

 

That still remains to be seen. All of us will have a better idea as it gets closer.

[Arkerus]

Kinda ironic coming from you...

 

Nope. Sorry pal, she's pretty much spot on.

[Arkerus]

As others have said, long term planning is a thing of the past. The stock market is all about growth. It barely even matters if you are a profitable business anymore, as long as you are growing.

 

Shareholders don't care about profitability, unless it's a dividend paying stock. If the company in question is "growing", it will increase in value and be profitable when you flip the stock.

 

Ignorance is bliss. Carry on.

[Arkerus]

Sorry CK, but the stock market is NOT all about growth. Many investors invest in stocks for a variety of reasons. Growth is only one factor... and frankly for individual investors, often not the best strategy at all. The only clear commonality with stock market investors is they want to grow their total wealth.. but the actual methods and strategies for doing so are not simply about "Growth" as you used it as an investing term. The investment market is littered with "delisted" stocks on the stock exchanges.... delisted because they continued to fail to make a profit and their shareprices were beaten into the ground such that their share prices no longer meet stock exchange listing requirements. The only growth represented by these dogs are their breakup value after a private equity firm snaps them up for pennies on the dollar and sells off the pieces for quick profits as they dismantle the company.

 

And contrary to your expressed opinion, profitability for publicly traded companies is very important to investors. Watch any publicly traded companies stock performance in the days after they announce a miss on their earnings and profit guidance to the street. The stock will invariably fall prey to a major price reset (generally between 10-40% downward in a day's trading). And such stocks rarely recover their share price quickly, and some never recover at all.

 

As for long term planning by companies.. they all plan long term, and they all replan quarterly to continuously course correct their plans to be consistent with their business goals and objectives.

 

I think this thread has shown you simply cannot explain this stuff to...these people.

They will either plug their ears and go "nana nana" or divert the conversation.

 

I do, however, salute you for your effort. I agree.

[dscount]

you do know that 2.8 is the biggest content release coming to this game so far right? does that not count as a sizable release of content:rak_02:

 

True that is supposed to be the "BIGGEST" to date. Which means it would to be bigger than Makeb and most likely include something like GSF as well. "Best Case" appears to be August timeline for that to hit the streets. Well over a year from the original RoTHC (Makeb) release around 4/2/2013.

 

That would feed the "Once a year" is good enough for content release for players and I'm not going to hold my breath for a set of "Serious" upgrades to things broken and in need of upgrades as well. CRAFTING needs some serious updating, and if Legacy Leveling has meaning again with some REAL benefits I will be amazed when it's out.

 

Based on the Roadmap: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/news-article/20140203 we can "Guess" on things:

1) Most likely NO new operations June 10th since NIM DP is being release that date (They just won't do that)

2) Ability to RE items (78) most likely NOT going to happen until new Operations deploy 2nd Tier of Gear.

3) August is 2 months after the 2.8 planned date and most likely the first Operation if not BOTH of them (SM/HM)

4) Depending on New Levels/DLC, etc. we won't see new crafting materials/schematics until August (450>500).

 

Again it's all a wait and see, but content is content. From a PVE point only "Content" is going to be NIM until August 2014 and even that might be changed. I would LOVE to see new SM/HM Operations Drop on JUNE 10th and it would be a complete shock to the player community. I might actually keep my sub active this Summer then.. LOL

Edited February 26, 2014 by dscount

[Minack]

Clearly you have a thing against Andryah if you don't think her(?) arguments are generally objective.

 

Heh, "generally" probably isn't the word most of us would have chosen.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Minack