TUXs Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Their operation release schedule is rather shameful. A new difficulty on an existing raid is not new content, no matter how they try to spin it. I wish it were just Ops they sucked at releasing content for, sadly, it's not...it's also FP's and WZs...and we'll likely soon add GSF to that list of stale content they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) How long was it that WoW devs literally sat and did nothing on the firelands content? 1.5 years? They had nothing new added for at least a year and they get a free pass? And don't give me that excuse about "they were working on an expansion." I could easily tell you right now that the SWTOR devs are working on content so they get the same excuse. Or are you guys complaining about release schedules in ALL games where they let content sit for months without any new additions? You are aware that large content changes takes time, right? ...especially since there apparently is a large chunk of story content in the works for later this year. Edited February 25, 2014 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) How long was it that WoW devs literally sat and did nothing on the firelands content? 1.5 years? They had nothing new added for at least a year and they get a free pass? I don't recall them getting a free pass at all, in fact they bled subs over it. Edited February 25, 2014 by hadoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I don't recall them getting a free pass at all, in fact they bled subs over it. That's why I was asking for clarification. If you are going to approach this as "swtor devs don't release content fast enough" then you have to treat the industry as a whole that way...because it happens ALL THE TIME. My point being that there is nothing out of the ordinary here. In fact, I would argue that SWTOR gets updates out on a more timely basis than other games I have played. Edited February 25, 2014 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidanel Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's why I was asking for clarification. If you are going to approach this as "swtor devs don't release content fast enough" then you have to treat the industry as a whole that way...because it happens ALL THE TIME. My point being that there is nothing out of the ordinary here. In fact, I would argue that SWTOR gets updates out on a more timely basis than other games I have played. I would actually say that using the cartel market to supplement revenue to give them the cash to keep going while developing more content is a pretty smart business strategy. It keeps their income high enough to appease shareholders while developing new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 That's why I was asking for clarification. If you are going to approach this as "swtor devs don't release content fast enough" then you have to treat the industry as a whole that way...because it happens ALL THE TIME. My point being that there is nothing out of the ordinary here. In fact, I would argue that SWTOR gets updates out on a more timely basis than other games I have played. Really depends on what you're defining as content. I think most of the people complaining in this thread (and certainly I feel this way) don't see CM items and different raid difficulties as 'content' Also depends on what games you compare it to - take GW2 for example that updates with new quest type content every 2 weeks (anomaly in the industry for sure, but if you're going to cite the WOW 1.5 year lapse you need to factor the other side too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Really depends on what you're defining as content. I think most of the people complaining in this thread (and certainly I feel this way) don't see CM items and different raid difficulties as 'content' Also depends on what games you compare it to - take GW2 for example that updates with new quest type content every 2 weeks (anomaly in the industry for sure, but if you're going to cite the WOW 1.5 year lapse you need to factor the other side too). Sure, and if you want to take some kind of average or typical release of raid (or major story content) I would still argue SWTOR is above the curve. Is it enough for hardcore raider or content locusts? No. And neither is a 2 week cycle. You can't win that battle. Do gamers have a legitimate complaint? Sure. Why would it not be? But my point is SWTOR isn't an anomaly and is more of the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFishing Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You are aware that large content changes takes time, right? ...especially since there apparently is a large chunk of story content in the works for later this year. Of course we are aware of that. And if SWTOR had a habit of going a year or more between new operations, the schedule for this year wouldn't even be notable. But since launch we've had a brand new operation every 6 to 8 months, which has actually made this game quite solid for raiding, and serves as a stark contrast to this year's roadmap. The highest probability IMO is that the expansion will come late this year and include 2 brand new operations. It should be a very sizable chunk of content. But between now and then....people that are completely disinterested in GSF could use a reason to stick around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFishing Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I would actually say that using the cartel market to supplement revenue to give them the cash to keep going while developing more content is a pretty smart business strategy. It keeps their income high enough to appease shareholders while developing new content. Again, number of subscriptions is only really useful because it serves as a proxy for player activity in a hybrid model such as this. Active players will tend to both subscribe and spend more in the CM. If a player cancels their sub, it is likely they plan on playing less, and unlikely to spend as much money on the game as they currently do. So even if they may spend slightly more on the CM for unlocks as so forth, their overall spending on the game is likely to go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Really depends on what you're defining as content. I think most of the people complaining in this thread (and certainly I feel this way) don't see CM items and different raid difficulties as 'content' Also depends on what games you compare it to - take GW2 for example that updates with new quest type content every 2 weeks (anomaly in the industry for sure, but if you're going to cite the WOW 1.5 year lapse you need to factor the other side too). If GW2 is so awesome, why aren't you playing GW2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidanel Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Again, number of subscriptions is only really useful because it serves as a proxy for player activity in a hybrid model such as this. Active players will tend to both subscribe and spend more in the CM. If a player cancels their sub, it is likely they plan on playing less, and unlikely to spend as much money on the game as they currently do. So even if they may spend slightly more on the CM for unlocks as so forth, their overall spending on the game is likely to go down. I definitely understand, but given the sheer volume of players the F2P model brought to the table, more people who each pay less isn't necessarily a bad thing for EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I definitely understand, but given the sheer volume of players the F2P model brought to the table, more people who each pay less isn't necessarily a bad thing for EA. Why do you assume F2P players are paying anything? How many F2P games do you play that you buy stuff in? I've played several F2P games and MMOs...the ones I payed ANYTHING for, I subbed to. F2P players are casual and just checking it out or kids...they aren't buying much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If GW2 is so awesome, why aren't you playing GW2? Where did I say it was awesome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) I definitely understand, but given the sheer volume of players the F2P model brought to the table, more people who each pay less isn't necessarily a bad thing for EA. Let's assume that you're talking about Preferred rather than F2P. This game has 3 tiers of players. F2P is the designation of players who have never spent a dime on the game. Preferred are players who formerly were subscribers but are not any longer, or who were formerly F2P players but spent money. Ok, now that that's done... It is absolutely rational to believe that preferred players spend less than $15/month on this game. If they spent $15 per month on this game, they could be subscribers and therefore would need to buy $0 worth of additional stuff to play the game effectively. That's the boundary. $15 per month. Preferred players pay under that. Most, probably way under it, especially if they were formerly subscribers and purchased all the unlocks they wanted off the GTN for credits before going F2P. The one exception to that might be Cartel Packs, the random chance ones. But I have an incredibly hard time rationalizing that many, if any, Preferred players are dropping much money on these things. If they have that sort of money to spend, it seems to me like they'd subscribe to get the better tier of play. Ultimately though this is all pointless conjecture. The key question is, is the game generating enough profitable revenue that EA will continue to support and enhance it? The answer to that question, given recent history and the roadmap, seems to be Yes. What more do we need or care about? Edited February 25, 2014 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 I would actually say that using the cartel market to supplement revenue to give them the cash to keep going while developing more content is a pretty smart business strategy. It keeps their income high enough to appease shareholders while developing new content. This is EA we are talking about. Charge $20 for a recolored armor, or even better, charge $20 for the customer to recolor their own armor. Or... Invest in a team of programmers, artists, designers, and others to create playable content. It's all about immediate return on investment. Long term does not enter into the equation, I'd even suggest the long term plan has been completely written off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidanel Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This is EA we are talking about. Charge $20 for a recolored armor, or even better, charge $20 for the customer to recolor their own armor. Or... Invest in a team of programmers, artists, designers, and others to create playable content. It's all about immediate return on investment. Long term does not enter into the equation, I'd even suggest the long term plan has been completely written off. BS...What corporation in the world does not have long term plans? Any board of directors would fire management immediately if they didn't have long term revenue projections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 This is EA we are talking about. Charge $20 for a recolored armor, or even better, charge $20 for the customer to recolor their own armor. Or... Invest in a team of programmers, artists, designers, and others to create playable content. It's all about immediate return on investment. Long term does not enter into the equation, I'd even suggest the long term plan has been completely written off. That statement pretty much proves you know nothing about how companies operate. Long term strategy is always, ALWAYS on the forefront of a business strategy. Immediate gain is great, but no business can operate quarter over quarter without a long term investment and return profile. Shareholders are always looking at long term gain. Its finance 101. Even "evil" EA knows they need long term ROI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Where did I say it was awesome? You seem to think highly of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFishing Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Shareholders are always looking at long term gain. Its finance 101. ROFL. While there are a few "long-term" investors left, this hasn't been generally true since the mid-90s. Shareholders are even more fickle than MMO players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 You seem to think highly of it. Holy crap now you know what I'm THINKING? What ARE you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Holy crap now you know what I'm THINKING? It's pretty easy. Either that or the word "seem" is invisible to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) ROFL. While there are a few "long-term" investors left, this hasn't been generally true since the mid-90s. Shareholders are even more fickle than MMO players. Day traders and the like look for immediate value. If you don't think long term investors exist you are...completely wrong. How else do you think large portfolios, index funds and mutual funds work? How about the board of directors? Its all long term. Get real. Long term investment is still, and always will be, extremely important. Edited February 25, 2014 by Arkerus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It's pretty easy. Either that or the word "seem" is invisible to you. Easy to jump to conclusions in order to bait a flame? Yes, I think we're all aware you have that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Easy to jump to conclusions in order to bait a flame? Yes, I think we're all aware you have that issue. Abso-freaking-lutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlasmaJohn Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Immediate gain is great, but no business can operate quarter over quarter without a long term investment and return profile. Shareholders are always looking at long term gain. Its finance 101. Even "evil" EA knows they need long term ROI. Now THAT's "milk out the nose" funny! Oh... you're serious. You poor deluded soul. EA's biggest cash cow is it's sports franchises which is basically reskin and re-release as new and wait for the masses to throw money at you. I'll bet they're kicking themselves hard over dipping into the MMO market, where, y'know, you actually have to come up with new stuff occasionally. smh. They always only see the huge revenue numbers that MMO's generate and never consider that their expenses are also ginormous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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