Kaggath Tournament: The Dark Imperium vs the Alliance of Worlds

[Warren-Stride]

Harrowers, are Wedge Shaped. They can fit right underneath Tunewalkers ships and fire, from stealth, making it look as if Tune's own forces are firing on anything.

Hapan ships still have scanners. If this happened, the people on their bridge manning the tactical stations would be like "What the heck, the AoW ships aren't even firing, their turbolasers aren't even charged or aimed at us.... lol wut?" And then the Hapans, who are reasonable people, would be like "Oh kriff, it's the DI!"

 

And if not, the AoW leadership would be informed of the situation immediately, Leia would call the Hapes Consortium, and they would realize what happened.

 

This is an issue if Tune amasses part of his fleet at Hapes, as he would, because it's the easiest planet to defend. If Traya was to sneak aboard any ship with a commander on it, (Prefferably Wedge) she could influence his actions.

 

I'm not sure how you have Traya dominating Wedge's mind. I've never seen her do that unless she's in the same room as her victim. So unless you want Traya to sneak on-board a AoW ship and then die when that ship gets blown up in the following battle...

Edited February 19, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[tunewalker]

[/color]

Hapan ships still have scanners. If this happened, the people on their bridge manning the tactical stations would be like "What the heck, the AoW ships aren't even firing, their turbolasers aren't even charged or aimed at us.... lol wut?" And then the Hapans, who are reasonable people, would be like "Oh kriff, it's the DI!"

 

And if not, the AoW leadership would be informed of the situation immediately, Leia would call the Hapes Consortium, and they would realize what happened.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how you have Traya dominating Wedge's mind. I've never seen her do that unless she's in the same room as her victim. So unless you want Traya to sneak on-board a AoW ship and then die when that ship gets blown up in the following battle...

 

Not to Mention if Luke and Leia are at the battle, leia's battle Meld along with her own extremely powerful mental defenses and the twins powerful senses would allow them to sense this attempt and Stealth ships dont have shields up, if she attempts this in their presence Luke and Leia order a fire at the stealthed ship's bridge and its GG.

 

If she does this with IG-88 and Wedge at location IG-88 hacking the ships means he again will likely find the exact local of Traya and tell the Rebel commanders (not just Wedge) where to fire and again no Shields up while stealth means GG.

 

 

 

Edit: also YAAAAAA i have finally had time to post thoughts for once. To all those trying to help me with my limited time thank you very much. Also I want every one to remember, hit and run tactics, Gorilla Warfare and Stealth operations was what my entire army of 46,000+ and every single one of my leaders did for a grand majority of their existance. Wedge was famous for this even after becoming an admiral. Stealth operations are not easy to pull against these guys who have 20+ years of experience fighting with and against said tactics and they have the equipment to do both, something they have many times done with out.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Hoh? Are you suggesting that because the Harrowers are shaped like doorstops they can be shoved under Tune's fleets?

 

I don't follow...

 

No, the ships can be almost touching, and the Di can fire all batteries...

[Selenial]

[/color]

Hapan ships still have scanners. If this happened, the people on their bridge manning the tactical stations would be like "What the heck, the AoW ships aren't even firing, their turbolasers aren't even charged or aimed at us.... lol wut?" And then the Hapans, who are reasonable people, would be like "Oh kriff, it's the DI!"

 

And if not, the AoW leadership would be informed of the situation immediately, Leia would call the Hapes Consortium, and they would realize what happened.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how you have Traya dominating Wedge's mind. I've never seen her do that unless she's in the same room as her victim. So unless you want Traya to sneak on-board a AoW ship and then die when that ship gets blown up in the following battle...

 

She did it to Atris from... Oh what was it... Across the entire galaxy.

 

She just needs to interact with Wedge, sneak aboard the ship, Arrive at the bridge, dominate his mind from there One time, and establish a connection. Then sneak aboard a Sienar Stealth ship and eject, and dominate him from the stealthed ship.

 

Also, Wedge could easily just say "Power up all batteries and be on standby." The batteries would be pointed at the fleet.

 

It only takes a spark to ignite a situation like that, one shot and the Hapans would return fire.

 

Besides, again, she could easily just make wedge say "The Hapans have betrayed us, all batteries fire" hell, screw the Harrier even needing to be near, it could just pop up after the battle has begun to save the Hapans.

 

She's one hell of a manipulator.

[Selenial]

Not to Mention if Luke and Leia are at the battle, leia's battle Meld along with her own extremely powerful mental defenses and the twins powerful senses would allow them to sense this attempt and Stealth ships dont have shields up, if she attempts this in their presence Luke and Leia order a fire at the stealthed ship's bridge and its GG.

 

If she does this with IG-88 and Wedge at location IG-88 hacking the ships means he again will likely find the exact local of Traya and tell the Rebel commanders (not just Wedge) where to fire and again no Shields up while stealth means GG.

 

 

 

Edit: also YAAAAAA i have finally had time to post thoughts for once. To all those trying to help me with my limited time thank you very much. Also I want every one to remember, hit and run tactics, Gorilla Warfare and Stealth operations was what my entire army of 46,000+ and every single one of my leaders did for a grand majority of their existance. Wedge was famous for this even after becoming an admiral. Stealth operations are not easy to pull against these guys who have 20+ years of experience fighting with and against said tactics and they have the equipment to do both, something they have many times done with out.

 

Why would they be? Wedge is the Naval Commander, the twins wouldnt risk that.

 

And Traya's better at Stealth than you give her credit for.

 

IG-88 couldn't find Traya by hacking ships.

 

And Stealthed ships can have shields up. You're getting the information that they can't from later in the Galaxy's history, when ships couldn't even fire from stealth. These ships are of Rakata design, the fact they can fire from stealth means they can also shield.

 

Edit: As for your edit, Traya's entire Empire was built on the philosophy "**** planets, we strike when we want"....

She's just as experienced as your crew are.

And none of your command staff have ever faced Stealth on the level of Malgus' fleet.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Selenial

[tunewalker]

She did it to Atris from... Oh what was it... Across the entire galaxy.

 

She just needs to interact with Wedge, sneak aboard the ship, Arrive at the bridge, dominate his mind from there One time, and establish a connection. Then sneak aboard a Sienar Stealth ship and eject, and dominate him from the stealthed ship.

 

Also, Wedge could easily just say "Power up all batteries and be on standby." The batteries would be pointed at the fleet.

 

It only takes a spark to ignite a situation like that, one shot and the Hapans would return fire.

 

Besides, again, she could easily just make wedge say "The Hapans have betrayed us, all batteries fire" hell, screw the Harrier even needing to be near, it could just pop up after the battle has begun to save the Hapans.

 

She's one hell of a manipulator.

 

So wait you are going to have your leader the primary enemy land on a ship with the commanding officer on it get close enough to him while on a ship filled with some of the most patriotic goal orientated and willfull troops the galaxy has ever known, and walk away alive. I dont think she is that good.

[Selenial]

So wait you are going to have your leader the primary enemy land on a ship with the commanding officer on it get close enough to him while on a ship filled with some of the most patriotic goal orientated and willfull troops the galaxy has ever known, and walk away alive. I dont think she is that good.

 

*Sigh*

 

We went through this last Kaggath.

 

She doesn't bend light around her, she manipulates the minds of every person who can see her. She can be as loud as she wants, visible as she wants, and no one would notice.

 

She could snatch a glass from wedge's hands, Drink it, smash it on the floor and no one would bat an eye lid.

 

She's done it to the Exile. She's done it to Bao Dur. She's done it to Mical. She's done it to the entire Jedi Council. She's done it to Visas. She's done it to Atris. She's done it to Kavarr. She's done it to... I'll stop, you get the point. She can do it to rebels.

[tunewalker]

Why would they be? Wedge is the Naval Commander, the twins wouldnt risk that.

 

And Traya's better at Stealth than you give her credit for.

 

IG-88 couldn't find Traya by hacking ships.

 

And Stealthed ships can have shields up. You're getting the information that they can't from later in the Galaxy's history, when ships couldn't even fire from stealth. These ships are of Rakata design, the fact they can fire from stealth means they can also shield.

 

Edit: As for your edit, Traya's entire Empire was built on the philosophy "**** planets, we strike when we want"....

She's just as experienced as your crew are.

And none of your command staff have ever faced Stealth on the level of Malgus' fleet.

 

 

The twins are better and senses then you give them credit for.

 

The crew manifest and battle plans are likely in the computers of your ships ESPECIALLY when the factions leader is involved. IG-88 could likely find them and would find them.

 

I saw no evidence that they could fire from stealth or keep shields up while stealthed. If they could they would never lose any engagement as no ship would even know where to target to fight against them. Even ground to air weapons to disable it would be worthless and no target could be found. You couldnt land a strike team on it for the same reason. There is no evidence that says the Fleet can act in the manner you say it can as it never did act in said manner.

[tunewalker]

*Sigh*

 

We went through this last Kaggath.

 

She doesn't bend light around her, she manipulates the minds of every person who can see her. She can be as loud as she wants, visible as she wants, and no one would notice.

 

She could snatch a glass from wedge's hands, Drink it, smash it on the floor and no one would bat an eye lid.

 

She's done it to the Exile. She's done it to Bao Dur. She's done it to Mical. She's done it to the entire Jedi Council. She's done it to Visas. She's done it to Atris. She's done it to Kavarr. She's done it to... I'll stop, you get the point. She can do it to rebels.

 

 

 

She cant do that with this many people and with wills this strong LOOKING for her. Those people werent looking for her and it was only ever to a few people at a time not to large crowds. You are giving her more credit then she should be getting. I am more then aware of the Method she uses as it has been used by other Jedi in the past, but its almost never used or successful against people who are actively looking for the individual in question. Every instance of this technique is done to only 1 person or done to people who are focusing on other things. Traya's as far as i know is no exception.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

She did it to Atris from... Oh what was it... Across the entire galaxy.

 

Atris was a Force User. Telepaphy works much better between two Force Users than it does between one Force User and one non-Force user. It's like a cell phone. Two FUs can text each other at great distances because they both have reception. But if there's only one FU, they can text the message out on the screen of their phone, but they have to physically show it to someone who has no phone to receive it.

 

Bad analogy, I know.

 

She just needs to interact with Wedge, sneak aboard the ship, Arrive at the bridge, dominate his mind from there One time, and establish a connection. Then sneak aboard a Sienar Stealth ship and eject, and dominate him from the stealthed ship.

 

Lol okay, that sounds like a horrible idea because she's off Malachor V, but if you think that's what she would do.

 

Also, Wedge could easily just say "Power up all batteries and be on standby." The batteries would be pointed at the fleet.

 

This isn't the Empire. The rest of the crew (including the second in command) is going to be like "da heck you doing fool?" and then demand to see proof of Hapan betrayal or an order from Leia herself.

 

Besides, again, she could easily just make wedge say "The Hapans have betrayed us, all batteries fire" hell, screw the Harrier even needing to be near, it could just pop up after the battle has begun to save the Hapans.

 

Here's another thing: "dominating" Wedge's mind, driving him crazy, making him go to the Dark Side or whatever, communicating, is one thing. Making him say things? I'm not sure that's even possible. It's not mind control. It's telepathy, communication. Did Traya mind control Atris? Or just communicate with her?

 

Atton knew Traya was in her head when she did this to him. Wedge would similarly resist and then the red flag would be raised.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Warren-Stride

[Selenial]

The twins are better and senses then you give them credit for.

 

The crew manifest and battle plans are likely in the computers of your ships ESPECIALLY when the factions leader is involved. IG-88 could likely find them and would find them.

 

I saw no evidence that they could fire from stealth or keep shields up while stealthed. If they could they would never lose any engagement as no ship would even know where to target to fight against them. Even ground to air weapons to disable it would be worthless and no target could be found. You couldnt land a strike team on it for the same reason. There is no evidence that says the Fleet can act in the manner you say it can as it never did act in said manner.

 

I'll look for evidence later, but it doesnt matter, IG-88 wouldnt find the ships becuase he wouldnt know they're there.

The twins wouldnt be there.

 

IG-88 can't hack into ships if he doesnt know they're there.

[tunewalker]

I'll look for evidence later, but it doesnt matter, IG-88 wouldnt find the ships becuase he wouldnt know they're there.

The twins wouldnt be there.

 

IG-88 can't hack into ships if he doesnt know they're there.

 

He can hack into ships he does know are there. You have at least 19 ships that can not stealth. That he can and will find and they will have the info as well. If there is no ships to be fighting there is no way any one is going to be forced to or even think about firing on Hapes. You have to have at least some visible ships for this plan to work at all.

 

 

(also you will note. Luke and Leia are the defense portion of the Fleet and Wedge and IG-88 are the offense portion.) IG-88 can discover this potentially from Seinar Systems and of course since its Luke and Leia at the defense... they will sense her if she reaches out to touch minds, as i suggested earlier.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Atris was a Force User. Telepaphy works much better between two Force Users than it does between one Force User and one non-Force user. It's like a cell phone. Two FUs can text each other at great distances because they both have reception. But if there's only one FU, they can text the message out on the screen of their phone, but they have to physically show it to someone who has no phone to receive it.

 

Bad analogy, I know.

 

 

 

Lol okay, that sounds like a horrible idea because she's off Malachor V, but if you think that's what she would do.

 

 

 

This isn't the Empire. The rest of the crew (including the second in command) is going to be like "da heck you doing fool?" and then demand to see proof of Hapan betrayal or an order from Leia herself.

 

 

 

Here's another thing: "dominating" Wedge's mind, driving him crazy, making him go to the Dark Side or whatever, communicating, is one thing. Making him say things? I'm not sure that's even possible. It's not mind control. It's telepathy, communication. Did Traya mind control Atris? Or just communicate with her?

 

Atton knew Traya was in her head when she did this to him. Wedge would similarly resist and then the red flag would be raised.

 

You're right, it's a bad analogy Force Users who do not want the link have strong mental defenses. Atris did not want the link.

 

I'd like to see you take Traya down with... Wedge.

 

Not really, if he decides they're attempting to betray the AOW, their subordinates will follow. And to be honest, if she didn't think it would work, she'd use the opposite end and just Influence the Hapan commander.

 

Atton knew she was in his head because he was trained in an academy, brutally trained to resist that. And she still got in easily. Bao Dur didn't know, Surik didn't know (we're talking MEETRA SURIK here) and neither did Visas.

Or Mical... Or Atris.

 

She communicated with Atris, but it was enough to affect her mind, and that was across a galactic scale, lightyears, not 2 kilometers.

[tunewalker]

You're right, it's a bad analogy Force Users who do not want the link have strong mental defenses. Atris did not want the link.

 

I'd like to see you take Traya down with... Wedge.

 

Not really, if he decides they're attempting to betray the AOW, their subordinates will follow. And to be honest, if she didn't think it would work, she'd use the opposite end and just Influence the Hapan commander.

 

Atton knew she was in his head because he was trained in an academy, brutally trained to resist that. And she still got in easily. Bao Dur didn't know, Surik didn't know (we're talking MEETRA SURIK here) and neither did Visas.

Or Mical... Or Atris.

 

She communicated with Atris, but it was enough to affect her mind, and that was across a galactic scale, lightyears, not 2 kilometers.

 

She also didnt physically manipulate any of the people you mentioned there. None of them were forced to do anything she just read their minds ALA Darth Vader reading Luke's mind in RotJ. She hasnt been shown dominating the mind of a strong willed individual who is against her to my knowledge. The more opposed the person is to the person manipulating the harder it is.

 

 

Edit: not to mention you still havent said how she is going to get those stealth ships into the group instead of being pulled out of hyperspace uncloaked. While Jedi have manually flown in Hyperspace before and have sensed these things before. Traya is not one of them, its a power that is innate to Jedi who are skilled pilots called instictive astrogation a power I am not aware of Traya, Maul or any of the assassins ever showing.

Edited February 19, 2014 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

He can hack into ships he does know are there. You have at least 19 ships that can not stealth. That he can and will find and they will have the info as well. If there is no ships to be fighting there is no way any one is going to be forced to or even think about firing on Hapes. You have to have at least some visible ships for this plan to work at all.

 

 

(also you will note. Luke and Leia are the defense portion of the Fleet and Wedge and IG-88 are the offense portion.) IG-88 can discover this potentially from Seinar Systems and of course since its Luke and Leia at the defense... they will sense her if she reaches out to touch minds, as i suggested earlier.

 

The Jedi council couldn't sense her... Traya is Leagues above the Skywalkers in Sense...

 

I don't need any visable ships, this isn't your entire fleet here.

[Warren-Stride]

She communicated with Atris, but it was enough to affect her mind, and that was across a galactic scale, lightyears, not 2 kilometers.

 

Yeah, like Tune said, not seeing any mind control here.

[Selenial]

She also didnt physically manipulate any of the people you mentioned there. None of them were forced to do anything she just read their minds ALA Darth Vader reading Luke's mind in RotJ. She hasnt been shown dominating the mind of a strong willed individual who is against her to my knowledge. The more opposed the person is to the person manipulating the harder it is.

 

Yes she has.

She went into attons mind, Literally said "Sleep," and he passed out. Same thing for Bao Dur.

She affected Mical's mind , and made him contact the republic to give them more information than he'd been planning to...

[Selenial]

Yeah, like Tune said, not seeing any mind control here.

 

Atton, Mical, Bao-Dur. Mind controlled. Tobin, Mind controlled.

 

Also, if it makes you feel any better, one of her abilities listed is "Dominate Mind"

[tunewalker]

The Jedi council couldn't sense her... Traya is Leagues above the Skywalkers in Sense...

 

I don't need any visable ships, this isn't your entire fleet here.

 

The council was also pre-occupied with doing other things NOT looking for her. The twins aren't and i would not be so sure about her being Leagues above the twins in sense.

[Selenial]

Edit: not to mention you still havent said how she is going to get those stealth ships into the group instead of being pulled out of hyperspace uncloaked. While Jedi have manually flown in Hyperspace before and have sensed these things before. Traya is not one of them, its a power that is innate to Jedi who are skilled pilots called instictive astrogation a power I am not aware of Traya, Maul or any of the assassins ever showing.

 

Called Foresight...

Y'know, the thing she's renowned for? I've said that already.

[Warren-Stride]

Yes she has.

She went into attons mind, Literally said "Sleep," and he passed out. Same thing for Bao Dur.

She affected Mical's mind , and made him contact the republic to give them more information than he'd been planning to...

 

Sounds more like Jedi Mind Trick.

 

Which requires her personal presence.

[Selenial]

The council was also pre-occupied with doing other things NOT looking for her. The twins aren't and i would not be so sure about her being Leagues above the twins in sense.

 

You're thinking of a different time.

 

She affected all 12 of them in the council chamber into exiling Meetra Surik.

[Selenial]

Sounds more like Jedi Mind Trick.

 

Which requires her personal presence.

Jedi Council, 12 people, she wasn't in the room (As far as anyone is aware)

Colonel Tobin, could have been a mind trick, but it took him ages to snap out of it and that obviously wasn't her following him all the way to Nihilus' ship.

[tunewalker]

Yes she has.

She went into attons mind, Literally said "Sleep," and he passed out. Same thing for Bao Dur.

She affected Mical's mind , and made him contact the republic to give them more information than he'd been planning to...

 

And if I recal none of these people were on a mission to kill her. They were allies by circumstance and while they may not have trusted her all that much they werent in direct opposition to her either. Not to mention she was on the same frieghter sized ship or on a holo call with them and she didnt have to manipulate hundreds of strong willed individuals actively looking for her at the same time as doing the rest.

 

You arent taking any circumstances or numbers into account scaling her powers to 10 fold what she has shown.

[tunewalker]

You're thinking of a different time.

 

She affected all 12 of them in the council chamber into exiling Meetra Surik.

 

which they were already thinking about any way. So she "manipulated" them along the same train of thought. This isnt Manipulating hundreds into doing the exact opposite to what they would normally be doing.