Sentinel Love, what can Bioware do to keep other players interested in our class?

[Vodrin]

For PvP some what PvE, What would make me go back to maining my Sentinel is seeing them give us back our 2% heals and a self purge that last just as long as Shadow's and Assasins on the same "exact cool down".

 

This would be a big step in the right direction for PVP survivability.

 

Oh yeah forgot to mention, get rid of "guarded by the Forces" 50% penalty.

 

I think all that would make sents very OP. Just the last one would make us very strong again.

[Tonev]

You do realize that until the ED buff came along it was universally agreed that DPS jugs/guards were not viable in ranked PvP due to sent/mara defensive cooldowns being so much better. Only thing sents really need is for GBTF to be reworked into a more usable state. I think it should just have it's duration slightly reduced and make it only usable under 30% health. Then remove all of the penalties associated with it. That would work wonders for the class (which is only slightly below other melee DPS right now by the way, and is still quite viable in all forms of PvP, and is stronger than many with a coordinated group).

 

I could actually live with this as long as they gave us back the 2% heals on burns also, this would boost survivability for the class in PvE and PvP without becoming an over powered class.

[Tonev]

I think all that would make sents very OP. Just the last one would make us very strong again.

 

Well let me put it this way, using Guarded by the force as a "DEFENSE" against all the Snipers/ Slingers/Sage/Sorc/Madness Sorc/Sin FoTM "Talking Sins/Shadows/Sages/Sors" classes is not viable in PvP. If you have ever fought a Shadow Sin one on one they purge things and then whack you with spinning strike for 8-9k damage (possibly more on crit), after your health has dwindled from all the dots they have applied.

 

I have specced into the 30% damage reduction skill just for a glimpse of hope of surviving 3-4 Force in balance/Deathfields in PvP and I am still getting hit on average for 5-7k per "that's a total of 21k possibly from instant cast anywhere ability" and that is in full 2018 expertise Brutalizers.

 

I even do it to other Sentinels and Marauders when I fight them on my Sage and Shadow, literally, I do find them a threat on my Sage (Not as much as I use to since I can keep them snared/rooted/Dotted forever now), but in WZ should it really be this way?

 

I find it harder to kill other Sages/Sorcs and Shadows/Sins (and they are specced as dps) entirely in comparison, just because they have all these get out of jail free cards.

 

They could attach the purge or immunity to Guarded by the Force and have it last for the duration since it is our only true "Defense" against damage and "RANGED" dot/snaring/rooting classes in the game.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Tonev

[Vodrin]

Well let me put it this way, using Guarded by the force as a "DEFENSE" against all the Snipers/ Slingers/Sage/Sorc/Madness Sorc/Sin FoTM "Talking Sins/Shadows/Sages/Sors" classes is not viable in PvP. If you have ever fought a Shadow Sin one on one they purge things and then whack you with spinning strike for 8-9k damage (possibly more on crit), after your health has dwindled from all the dots they have applied.

 

I have specced into the 30% damage reduction skill just for a glimpse of hope of surviving 3-4 Force in balance/Deathfields in PvP and I am still getting hit on average for 5-7k per "that's a total of 21k possibly from instant cast anywhere ability" and that is in full 2018 expertise Brutalizers.

 

I even do it to other Sentinels and Marauders when I fight them on my Sage and Shadow, literally, I do find them a threat on my Sage (Not as much as I use to since I can keep them snared/rooted/Dotted forever now), but in WZ should it really be this way?

 

I find it harder to kill other Sages/Sorcs and Shadows/Sins (and they are specced as dps) entirely in comparison, just because they have all these get out of jail free cards.

 

They could attach the purge or immunity to Guarded by the Force and have it last for the duration since it is our only true "Defense" against damage and "RANGED" dot/snaring/rooting classes in the game.

 

In several other posts I have agreed with you that GBTF in it's current form is pretty lackluster. The change only made sense for Focus builds before the nerf. Now I think cutting the duration slightly and putting a limit on the health level could allow the health penalty to be removed without making it overpowered (as you can still be stunned for the duration). I'm also reluctant to put a purge on any of our abilities. Dealing with the purge on Evade/Dodge is frustrating enough when playing a dot spec. If we were to get a purge though, GBTF would be the obvious candidate to get it.

[Atlanis]

In several other posts I have agreed with you that GBTF in it's current form is pretty lackluster. The change only made sense for Focus builds before the nerf. Now I think cutting the duration slightly and putting a limit on the health level could allow the health penalty to be removed without making it overpowered (as you can still be stunned for the duration). I'm also reluctant to put a purge on any of our abilities. Dealing with the purge on Evade/Dodge is frustrating enough when playing a dot spec. If we were to get a purge though, GBTF would be the obvious candidate to get it.

 

Force Cammo, why should the other people have 45s and we 2min? No Sents need a buff, they are the least played class in pvp. Have you done PvP on T3M4? Stealthers, Snipers, Jugs and maybe some Sorcereres or Soldierclasses, as a Mara I met no other Mara in an evening of playing. Same goes for JKS the handful of Sents who still manage fit into one 8 Man Opsgroup ;-)

[ekwalizer]

Don't get me wrong, I main a Sentinel and do just fine in operations. I just sigh wistfully every time I see other advanced classes getting all sorts of love while we are slowly whittled away at. My question is, what do you think would make our class as rewarding to play as other classes for new players?

 

My first thought is to tame the RNG a bit more. My guild mates will giggle at my team speak frustration when I get a dry spell for Opportune Attack. Something similar to the guaranteed stacking proc that the Guardians now enjoy would be nice. Now that I've said my piece, I want to hear what the rest of you think.

 

I'm trying to figure out exactly where Sent/Mara is lacking. Combat/Carnage S/M consistently places #1 on DPS output in WZs. Further Anni/Watch generally parse #1-2 in DPS for Raids.

 

They are DPS classes.

 

Furthermore, look back at the history of the game, S/M have received fewer nerfs than any other AC.

 

I have both a S/M at 55. I'm sorry but these classes have received nothing BUT love since the game launched. The classes are OP as it stands.

[Vodrin]

I'm trying to figure out exactly where Sent/Mara is lacking. Combat/Carnage S/M consistently places #1 on DPS output in WZs. Further Anni/Watch generally parse #1-2 in DPS for Raids.

 

They are DPS classes.

 

Furthermore, look back at the history of the game, S/M have received fewer nerfs than any other AC.

 

I have both a S/M at 55. I'm sorry but these classes have received nothing BUT love since the game launched. The classes are OP as it stands.

 

Can't really agree with overpowered (at least not in PvP), but they are not that badly off and will generally do well. And they have had a fairly substantial number of nerfs since the beginning of the game (Watchman healing nerf, focus AoE nerf, GBTF nerf just to name a few).

 

Force Cammo, why should the other people have 45s and we 2min? No Sents need a buff, they are the least played class in pvp. Have you done PvP on T3M4? Stealthers, Snipers, Jugs and maybe some Sorcereres or Soldierclasses, as a Mara I met no other Mara in an evening of playing. Same goes for JKS the handful of Sents who still manage fit into one 8 Man Opsgroup ;-)

 

I PvP most evenings on my sent and I am rarely the only one in the warzone. And for the record I do not think the class should get a purge at all. It really would not take much of a buff to make the class wildly OP again.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Vodrin

[Ramtar]

I PvP most evenings on my sent and I am rarely the only one in the warzone. And for the record I do not think the class should get a purge at all. It really would not take much of a buff to make the class wildly OP again.

 

One thing needed is to reduce our abilities CDs for PvP only by 1/4-1/2. If the devs can adjust what Force Sweep does for PvE and PvP than they can adjust the CDs to work the same. In the last 7 days, I have run 4 WZs with 3-4 Sentinels out of 120 WZs. Majority of the time I, like you, have been the only Sentinel in these WZs.

 

Currently, the range ACs are the king/queen of the WZs and Sentinel is the jester.

 

OP are ACs that have the range/heal/armor/stun/escape to withstand the attack from 4.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

One thing needed is to reduce our abilities CDs for PvP only by 1/4-1/2. If the devs can adjust what Force Sweep does for PvE and PvP than they can adjust the CDs to work the same. In the last 7 days, I have run 4 WZs with 3-4 Sentinels out of 120 WZs. Majority of the time I, like you, have been the only Sentinel in these WZs.

 

Currently, the range ACs are the king/queen of the WZs and Sentinel is the jester.

 

OP are ACs that have the range/heal/armor/stun/escape to withstand the attack from 4.

 

I don't really think any classes are patently OP right now. Ranged are certainly much easier to play, but that does not mean overpowered (same was true of focus spec prior to the nerf). And I really don't think we need to mess with the cooldowns. A slight rework of GBTF with either a buff to focus or a reduction of the RNG element of combat is all that is really needed to make the class feel really strong again.

[DarkSaberMaster]

Want to know what Bioware can do to keep other players interested in Sent/Mara? Stop listening to the *******es within this class and from other classes who summarily lobby to kill every spec that isn't their favorite. That has been the bane of Sents/Maras since launch.

[Ramtar]

I don't really think any classes are patently OP right now. Ranged are certainly much easier to play, but that does not mean overpowered (same was true of focus spec prior to the nerf). And I really don't think we need to mess with the cooldowns. A slight rework of GBTF with either a buff to focus or a reduction of the RNG element of combat is all that is really needed to make the class feel really strong again.

 

Let's take a look at 3 different abilities: Sniper's Takedown, Assassin's Assassinate

and Dispatch. All abilities only usable on targets at or below 30% max health and you tell me there isn't a problem with the damage difference between the three, and Takedown/Assassinate deal weapon damage while Dispatch deal energy damage.

 

Bounty Hunter's Unload compared to Master Strike

 

Then, you will understand why I'm asking about changes.

 

Want to know what Bioware can do to keep other players interested in Sent/Mara? Stop listening to the *******es within this class and from other classes who summarily lobby to kill every spec that isn't their favorite. That has been the bane of Sents/Maras since launch.

 

You know nothing about business. Players pay the bills.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

Let's take a look at 3 different abilities: Sniper's Takedown, Assassin's Assassinate

and Dispatch. All abilities only usable on targets at or below 30% max health and you tell me there isn't a problem with the damage difference between the three, and Takedown/Assassinate deal weapon damage while Dispatch deal energy damage.

 

Bounty Hunter's Unload compared to Master Strike

 

Then, you will understand why I'm asking about changes.

 

Those tootips don't really tell the story though. For a sniper all of their other hard hitting abilities have a cast time, and dispatch being energy damage has advantages. And my master strike on my sent hits for considerably more than full Auto on my commando, and the sent is only a little better geared than the mando. And go ahead and tell any PT player than unload is better than Master Strike.

[Tevzz]

Combat/Carnage S/M consistently places #1 on DPS output in WZs.

 

I have both a S/M at 55. I'm sorry but these classes have received nothing BUT love since the game launched. The classes are OP as it stands.

 

The first sentence is absolute crap, if you have mercs/sorcs/snipers in your team and they CAN'T out damage a Combat/Carnage Sentinel/Marauder there's a very very very big problem with them, I could understand if you'd said Smash because it can still top charts (though Hybrid sorcs do much more AoE dmg and they should be outdpsi'ng the Smashers), but a Carnage Marauder should not Outdps an arsenal Merc and even less a Madness/Hybrid sorc.

 

As for the second part, perhaps you should try PvP'ing with your Sentinel or Marauder at 55 to see what it feels like. Without a healer on your Back, "OP" is the last thing you feel.

 

Those tootips don't really tell the story though. For a sniper all of their other hard hitting abilities have a cast time, and dispatch being energy damage has advantages. And my master strike on my sent hits for considerably more than full Auto on my commando, and the sent is only a little better geared than the mando. And go ahead and tell any PT player than unload is better than Master Strike.

 

Full auto ticks crit for 4-5k+ when properly geared and can be used much more often than MS though. It's true that snipers have to hard-cast many abilities but you forget that they can't be interrupted with traditional interrupts and a stun/Knockback/CC is needed, and if they've popped Entrench well u can't stop the cast no matter what you do.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Tevzz

[chillshock]

I think they should just give sents +15% additional movement speed in combat.

Goes well with the squishy melee dd that has no real stealth and is not quite as op as 'immunity to movement impairing...'.

 

^^

[Ramtar]

Those tootips don't really tell the story though. For a sniper all of their other hard hitting abilities have a cast time, and dispatch being energy damage has advantages. And my master strike on my sent hits for considerably more than full Auto on my commando, and the sent is only a little better geared than the mando. And go ahead and tell any PT player than unload is better than Master Strike.

 

Cast time aside, it the ability cool down that needs to be looked at. Unload has a 15 seconds cool down compared to Master Strike 30 seconds cooldown; which mean a Mando can get off 2 Unload (30m) attacks to 1 Master Strike (4m) attack.

 

Last time I checked a Mando can wear heavy armor which provide more protection that Sentinel's medium armor.

 

I'm trying to figure out exactly where Sent/Mara is lacking. Combat/Carnage S/M consistently places #1 on DPS output in WZs.

 

I have both a S/M at 55. I'm sorry but these classes have received nothing BUT love since the game launched. The classes are OP as it stands.

 

On my server, all the other ACs are consistently places #1 in WZ DPS output. Sentinel/Marauder are in the middle to lower end of the DPS output, with Watchman/Annihilation outperforming Combat/Carnage or Focus/Rage.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Ramtar

[Vodrin]

The first sentence is absolute crap, if you have mercs/sorcs/snipers in your team and they CAN'T out damage a Combat/Carnage Sentinel/Marauder there's a very very very big problem with them, I could understand if you'd said Smash because it can still top charts (though Hybrid sorcs do much more AoE dmg and they should be outdpsi'ng the Smashers), but a Carnage Marauder should not Outdps an arsenal Merc and even less a Madness/Hybrid sorc.

This is correct, although if he said killing blows I could agree with him. Any mara/sent that is regularly number one in DPS is usually going to be watchman/annhilation, or even focus/rage, although Madness/Balance should still outperform them DPS wise (not killing blow wise though).

 

 

 

 

Full auto ticks crit for 4-5k+ when properly geared and can be used much more often than MS though. It's true that snipers have to hard-cast many abilities but you forget that they can't be interrupted with traditional interrupts and a stun/Knockback/CC is needed, and if they've popped Entrench well u can't stop the cast no matter what you do.

 

I've only seen those crits with a gunnery/arsenal build and curtain of fire active, although it is fair to note that full auto/unload have buffs available that MS does not. We just need to keep in mind the full class picture. Is anyone going to argue that you should take a MM sniper to a ranked match over a carnage mara?

[Tevzz]

I've only seen those crits with a gunnery/arsenal build and curtain of fire active, although it is fair to note that full auto/unload have buffs available that MS does not. We just need to keep in mind the full class picture. Is anyone going to argue that you should take a MM sniper to a ranked match over a carnage mara?

 

My bad, I was assuming you were talking about Gunnery since I haven't seen an assault commando in ages on our server xD As for your question I'd rather take an average MM Sniper than a terrible Carnage marauder that will get globalled