Alexhpy Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Right now the PT Pyro has the lowest sustained dps(along with assassins) and the worst mitigation for a Heavy Armor DPS class. The DPS issue has been known for a while and i don`t think its worth beating the same dead horse, they clearly don`t want to get all classes up to the same DPS numbers for some reason... The mitigation issue comes from the fact that the standard PY Pyro build doesn`t have any mitigation talents. The other heavy armor classes(except merc Pyro - what a surprise) can take mitigation talents from their trees without sacrificing anything. The PT Pyro can`t even get all of its dps talents, not to mention the mitigation talent points. If we could take the DPS increasing talents AND the mitigation ones while full Pyro this class would have no DPS issues and the mitigation would be just like it is for pretty much every other heavy armor class - 35% reduction. But right now we can`t, http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMhMZrsMZfhMrdRbcz.3, we are missing quite a lot of points to be able to do it. So what do the devs plan for this class? It is not the most popular one and the fact that it now has - together with assassins the lowest DPS will make it even less popular. I won`t even go into the Defensive CD`s department, as while far from the best they are not the issue, our DPS and mitigation however are a big issue. We were promised Tanks would be able to do as much DPS as a normal DPS class, with no downsides.... however all the tank classes were hurting and only Guardians/Juggs got a buff, the rest are left at the bottom of the DPS barrel. Keep your promise BIOWARE, allow us to do just as much damage as the rest of the DPS classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adaliaya Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 Vote for this. Maybe Vanguard/Powetech could become AoE oriented class, since there already is Sentinel and Gunslinger that can pull out high single target numbers:-/ AoE DPS would be refreshing to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 11, 2014 Author Share Posted February 11, 2014 From what i know about their plans they plan to make every class have an AOE build and a Single Target dps build + the 3rd build being either healer, tank or another kind of DPS - like DOTs for the Sentinel(watchman) For the PT, Advanced Prototype of the AOE build, but their single target DPS build is lacking right now, so is their mitigation compared to the other DPS classes - as they all gain 4% to 7% mitigation - usually in the form of "damage reduction" and not armor.(that can be ignored by most attacks) Hopefully they will bring this class in line with the others... it can be done just by increasing the damage of the cylinder - a way to ensure no Hybrid is born... or by increasing the DOT damage... another way to make sure no hybrid is born. As for the mitigation, they can just change the talents a bit to allow Pyro to get that 4% to 7% mitigation every DPS class gets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Pyro PTs have low passive mitigation because of their ridiculous burst damage and amazing DCDs. Also they are technically stronger (DPS wise) in PvE than: Deception Sins Madness Sorcs Rage Marauders/Juggs AP Powertechs Dont believe me about the DCD's? Ive filled in for the dead tank countless times because of (Warning! Pub terminology Incoming!) Energy shield's +25% damage reduction +1kdps reflected, Diversion's +25% defense chance and Adrenaline rushes 40 second cooldown with added 25% damage reduction. Oh and "Into the Fray" giving 2.5% hp regen ever aoe hit I took Edited February 11, 2014 by TACeMossie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Pyro PTs have low passive mitigation because of their ridiculous burst damage and amazing DCDs. Also they are technically stronger (DPS wise) in PvE than: Deception Sins Madness Sorcs Rage Marauders/Juggs AP Powertechs Dont believe me about the DCD's? Ive filled in for the dead tank countless times because of (Warning! Pub terminology Incoming!) Energy shield's +25% damage reduction +1kdps reflected, Diversion's +25% defense chance and Adrenaline rushes 40 second cooldown with added 25% damage reduction. Oh and "Into the Fray" giving 2.5% hp regen ever aoe hit I took The only class that has lower dps is the Assassin. Every other class has 1 tree doing more DPS. Saying that one of our trees has less dps than the other is... strange... as its intended, AP is our AOE tree, just like Rage is the Marauder AOE tree, they are not designed to do the best single-target DPS. As for Active Cd`s... Pyro: Reactive shield = 25% damage resistance, lasts 15s. Needs talents to reflect damage. 2M CD Diversion = 25% chance to resist attacks for 6 seconds, needs 2 points Hold the Line = 6s movement impairing immunity Adrenaline Rush = 8s of 30% damage resistance, tries to get back HP to 35% however is 2+ people are attacking you you will still usually die. Needs talents to make it usefull. Harpoon = 45s CD, brings the target to you. Marauder: Cloak of Pain(Marauder) = 20% damage resistance, lasts up to 30s(as long as you get hit, basically as long as you need it), reflects damage by default, 1M cd. Saber Ward = 50% ranged/melee defense + 25% tech/force reduction, 3M CD Intimidating Road = 6seconds AOE CC, similar to the hated Flash Bang, 1m CD Force Camouflage = Stealth for 4 seconds, does not break on damage and reduces damage taken by 50% + increases movement speed by 30%, 45s CD Obfuscate = reduces target ranged/melee accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds, 1m CD Undying Rage = 99% damage reduction, reduces you hp by 50% when it ends, 2m CD Force Charge = 15s CD, brings you to the target. On top of this Marauder can for example get 50% movement speed increase due to Predation, with an amazing up-time. As for armor reduction, while Marauders wear Medium Armor and should have 25% damage reduction, they have talents in every tree that either bump their mitigation to 31% or reduce their target`s damage by 5%, meaning they have the same reduction as an PT Pyro, but with a lot more defensive CD`s. A LOT MORE. And they do a lot more DPS too.... How is that in any way fair or balanced? It is not. EDIT: As for burst, Carnage Marauders get the best burst in the game... Edited February 12, 2014 by Alexhpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 The only class that has lower dps is the Assassin. Every other class has 1 tree doing more DPS. Saying that one of our trees has less dps than the other is... strange... as its intended, AP is our AOE tree, just like Rage is the Marauder AOE tree, they are not designed to do the best single-target DPS. As for Active Cd`s... Pyro: Reactive shield = 25% damage resistance, lasts 15s. Needs talents to reflect damage. 2M CD Diversion = 25% chance to resist attacks for 6 seconds, needs 2 points Hold the Line = 6s movement impairing immunity Adrenaline Rush = 8s of 30% damage resistance, tries to get back HP to 35% however is 2+ people are attacking you you will still usually die. Needs talents to make it usefull. Harpoon = 45s CD, brings the target to you. Marauder: Cloak of Pain(Marauder) = 20% damage resistance, lasts up to 30s(as long as you get hit, basically as long as you need it), reflects damage by default, 1M cd. Saber Ward = 50% ranged/melee defense + 25% tech/force reduction, 3M CD Intimidating Road = 6seconds AOE CC, similar to the hated Flash Bang, 1m CD Force Camouflage = Stealth for 4 seconds, does not break on damage and reduces damage taken by 50% + increases movement speed by 30%, 45s CD Obfuscate = reduces target ranged/melee accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds, 1m CD Undying Rage = 99% damage reduction, reduces you hp by 50% when it ends, 2m CD Force Charge = 15s CD, brings you to the target. On top of this Marauder can for example get 50% movement speed increase due to Predation, with an amazing up-time. As for armor reduction, while Marauders wear Medium Armor and should have 25% damage reduction, they have talents in every tree that either bump their mitigation to 31% or reduce their target`s damage by 5%, meaning they have the same reduction as an PT Pyro, but with a lot more defensive CD`s. A LOT MORE. And they do a lot more DPS too.... How is that in any way fair or balanced? It is not. EDIT: As for burst, Carnage Marauders get the best burst in the game... You have to remember though, Carnage Marauders lose all their burst by being hit with a cryo grenade. And still, im not against PTs getting buffed, but I've never had issues with survivability when paired with a healer unless 4 guys are focusing me down - and even then I can hold on for a good 20-25 seconds - those cooldowns are much stronger than they appear. But yeah, I really want DPS buffs for pyro, even if it comes at the cost of some of the DCDs (My mains a vanguard and im getting sick of being stuck in tank duty in PvE, and when I DPS I go assault) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Their survivability is where it should be for a melee class with no Gap Closer and no special tricks like going invisible and essentially making people focus another target... the bit of extra mitigation would help for solo PvE and so on, it wouldn`t do much in PvP where every dps class either does elemental/internal damage or they bypass armor. However, their DPS needs to be in line with other classes, our Single Target DPS spec, Pyro for PT`s should do as much damage as a Merc, Sniper, Marauder etc. and right now its not even close. As for PvP, increasing the damage of our Dots would have no impact unless people don`t cleanse... and if they don`t cleanse they lose anyway so it would not change any outcome. Also, if they increased the DPS for scoundrels they should do it for us too, no reason not to. They have a lot of creative options to do it without messing with our burst, like increase the DOT damage and maybe even the initial damage on Incendiary Round, or all at once... Either way we need 10% -15% more sustained DPS for PYRO, its stupid that Mercs have the best DPS for their Pyro build while ours is the lowest.... and we are in melee range while they can just sit and cast... I don`t think i need to add that any change to DOT damage should be added to the PT Pyro tree and not given by default, so we don`t make the Merc Pyro build even more OP... EDIT: About carnage losing their burst, we lose it if they cleanse, or knock us back, or kite us and so on... and we have no gap closer to instantly close a 30m gap... Edited February 12, 2014 by Alexhpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 12, 2014 Author Share Posted February 12, 2014 They say 2.7 is on the 24th... i wonder if they plan to address the DPS issues for us then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 they say 2.7 is on the 24th... I wonder if they plan to address the dps issues for us then... 2.7 pts* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yea, on the PTS sorry but still we can see what they are planning to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Yea, on the PTS sorry but still we can see what they are planning to do... Well we dont have to wait that long to see whats coming. Current ideas for 2.7 class changes coming Soon™... er... Tomorrow. Hey Adrian! This is a good question! My goal would be to not provide new meme ammunition in the answers . However, there are some changes coming to Sorcs/Sages in Game Update 2.7 which we are aiming to post about tomorrow. My hope is that the community feels that they are good changes and feel it addresses the feedback provided! I will have more info tomorrow. -eric PS - Other classes are receiving changes as well, look for that info tomorrow. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7201508#post7201508 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexhpy Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yea nothing for us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunner_Venda Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yea nothing for us.... We just got some major changes in 2.4. I wouldn't expect us to get much more after an early Christmas like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsexee Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 They killed pyro back when they changed a MISSILE'S range to 10m....guess the BH shops at ACEME And the nade range also 10m so all BH's must throw like girls (no offense =D) PvP has not been the same sense than....flamethrower spec is trash in pvp... but I am happy they fixed that stupid use tank cylinder while dps spec .. They need to bring back the old Pyro...part range + melee=FUN (and yes I mean more then 10M!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macroeconomics Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 BW appears to have abandoned the attempt to make each skill tree viable for both pvp and pve. Now they seem to be after a much more modest goal - have at least one skill tree useable for pvp and one for pve. So for PT, tank tree for pvp, AP for pve. PT Pyro is SOL. Similarly, for Mercs, they have Pyro for pve and well, nothing for pvp. BW is still trying to gain traction on this I suppose.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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