Dreamquencher Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 As a subscriber since launch, I have been playing GSF since day 1. To quote Baron Deathmark, I am really, really terrible. After spending around 100K requisition on scouts and gunships across several toons, and buying the CM scout and spending lots of requisition on it...I still stink. My usual game would involve me flying in on a Blackbolt to take objectives, while seeing my pitiful rockets do 250, 285, 275 damage with no kills (except turrets). I regularly go 10 games without a player kill, despite trying my hardest. I can't get the hang of the fighter rocket lock ons. Even with a reasonably upgraded gunship, I get one shot off, do maybe 80% damage to the enemy, then I get slaughtered like the sitting duck I am. So today, I PAID (emphasis added) real money to get the 1,800 CM coins to buy the G-X1 Onslaught. I played one game to get enough requisition to get the railgun drone. The next game was pretty balanced; players on both sides had between 2 and 4 ships. After flying out into the fray, I tried out the railgun drone. As a result, I got the following achievements at the end of the match: *Dogfighter *Advanced: Dogfighter *Expert: Dogfighter *Elite: Dogfighter *Untouchable *Expert: Technician I paid $19.99 USD for the 2400 CM coins required to get 6 achievements for doing nothing but firing drones and waiting for the drone cooldowns to expire. One interesting thing: I frequently got the warning that I wasn't contributing to the match as a bomber. This seems difficult to overcome when the whole strategy of bomberhood seems to be: fire drones and don't die. I renewed contribution when respawning , so maybe suicide is EA's idea of getting bombers back into "contribution" mode. Of course, the NEXT match involved a 10 person PUB premade with 100% 5 ship opponents. We lost DM 50-6, with almost all of our kills being by capital ship, because our team wised up and sat near our ship like the overmatched sheep we were. Someone needs to revamp GSF completely...sadly, as long as EA is getting $20.00 USD/player to give out OP bomber pixels, some CEO is too busy looking for a second vacation house in the Bahamas to bother making a game which is fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 you do know that cm bomber has all the exact abilities as the Warcarrier you don't have to pay cm for right? its not pay to win, but its a little laziness on your part. literally those drones and everything is possible with that warrcarrier, and it just costs 5000 fleet requisition. It is not pay to win. As for the not contributing thing, a bunch of people yelled about 'afkers" a while back, demanded a system that Bioware put into place, now if you stand near a spot too long you are "afk", mainly because most of the afk accusations were from people either defending a node or on the capital ship, it should have only applied to capital ship and not nodes since now you can be punished for defending a node but still, point is, it is NOT Pay to Win like you claim it is and do research before making that accusation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoUniverseBC Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Who cares? The QQ on Bombers is crazy. They aren't THAT OP. Edited February 8, 2014 by LegoUniverseBC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nairolfus Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 The bomber you bought is only a special skin, you can get the same for 5000 fleet req. No pay to win here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Achievements mean nothing... Whiners + internet = *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCaliban Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I just unlocked my bomber with fleet requisition. It has all the cool stuff yours does and didn't cost me a dime. PS: I believe converting XP from one ship to another will get you as much 'extra' XP as the 10% the mastery gives, but for fewer cartel coins. Edited February 8, 2014 by MCaliban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamquencher Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 you do know that cm bomber has all the exact abilities as the Warcarrier you don't have to pay cm for right? its not pay to win, but its a little laziness on your part. literally those drones and everything is possible with that warrcarrier, and it just costs 5000 fleet requisition. "Why don't they teach logic at these schools?" ―Digory Kirke, in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. Just because one can NOT pay CM to get a bomber, does not make what I said untrue. Rather than doing the work of obtaining 5000 fleet req, I used a credit card to gain a massive advantage in game play, thus PAYING to WIN. The real issue is that paying for, say, an upgraded scout is not nearly as game-changing as the (current incarnation) of the bomber. I predict that the bomber will get hit by a huge nerf hammer in the near future. Otherwise, you will see a massive exodus of players who would like fair fights, but instead get the scenario I experienced: being iced by a scrub like myself with minimal GSF skills (despite many hours of trying to improve). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 "Why don't they teach logic at these schools?" ―Digory Kirke, in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. Just because one can NOT pay CM to get a bomber, does not make what I said untrue. Rather than doing the work of obtaining 5000 fleet req, I used a credit card to gain a massive advantage in game play, thus PAYING to WIN. The real issue is that paying for, say, an upgraded scout is not nearly as game-changing as the (current incarnation) of the bomber. I predict that the bomber will get hit by a huge nerf hammer in the near future. Otherwise, you will see a massive exodus of players who would like fair fights, but instead get the scenario I experienced: being iced by a scrub like myself with minimal GSF skills (despite many hours of trying to improve). what your paying for is an advantage that anyone can have access to, even if they don't pay. Seriously, you are paying to get access to something with less work, its not pay to win as anyone else can get that advantage, at the most its just skipping. And whats with people saying "nerf bombers" people got issues with the dronecarriers, the minelayers are fine and have significantly less utility than the dronecarrier, not to say they are useful, I even made a thread showing how useful they can be, but still only the drones I think are in danger of the "nerf bat" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) "Why don't they teach logic at these schools?" ―Digory Kirke, in The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe. Just because one can NOT pay CM to get a bomber, does not make what I said untrue. Rather than doing the work of obtaining 5000 fleet req, I used a credit card to gain a massive advantage in game play, thus PAYING to WIN. 1. Insulting people based on a post which was in response to your "knee-jerk reaction" post when they are stating facts in response to your rant? Bad idea and really look in the mirror for your logic comment. (see what I did there? mirror?) 2. If you read the rebuttals to your initial post, they are indeed saying that your initial statement was untrue. 3. Paying CC is for cosmetic reasons, a +10% boost to requisition earned, or to bypass the 5k fleet requisition initial investment (that a LOT of people had stockpiled and waiting) 4. That is pay to level slightly faster... not pay to win. Funny you did not mention that subscribers get 50% MORE REQUISITION in your rant. You only focused on the CC option to buy a ship... with zero upgrades... Edited February 8, 2014 by Zharik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowsNIte Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Rather than doing the work of obtaining 5000 fleet req, I used a credit card to gain a massive advantage in game play, thus PAYING to WIN. Its only pay to win if no one else can get the CM bomber unless you pay for it. Your understanding of Pay to Win is a bit off, since anybody can get the drone carrier. Bypassing 5,000 fleet req is hardly a massive advantage, I(like most players) had enough to unlock both bombers on day 1. Your gripe seems to be more with the perceived op-ness of the bombers. Yes, its a lazy ship that lets mediocre players put up numbers close to that of seasoned vets. But by your own admission, flying a bomber still doesn't prevent you from getting rofl-stomped when up against actual seasoned vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Just because one can NOT pay CM to get a bomber, does not make what I said untrue. Rather than doing the work of obtaining 5000 fleet req, I used a credit card to gain a massive advantage in game play, thus PAYING to WIN. Strictly speaking, what you're paying for is the 5000 fleet req you wouldn't otherwise have to spend, plus around 13500 ship req over the course of mastering the bomber. It costs 1800 CCs to get the bomber. It costs 200 CCs to convert 5000 ship req to fleet req. That 13500 ship req would be another 540 CCs. Even if you don't use CCs at all, you get 500 fleet req from the weekly and 50-150+ fleet req per match. Again, you're only paying to save time. The important thing here is that "pay to save time" is not at all the same as "pay to win". If you could pay 1800 CCs to get a character to level 50, would that be pay to win? Not really. Pay to win is "I paid real world money for an actual advantage in this game, by which I mean something no one else can get without also paying real world money". It's bad because it encourages a downward spiral of people paying money to keep up with people who are paying money, and anyone who can't or doesn't want to pay real world money just gets **** on. Also, please don't misuse Lewis' awesome quotes. :< Edited February 9, 2014 by Armonddd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaskar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Do you realize that all a bomber is, is a target for a gunship? It takes skill to keep a bomber flying with any gunships on the other team. There is plenty of balance, however there is a large influx of new people flying right now and the people with experience are enjoying all the cannon fodder. If you're having such a hard time, may I suggest a mouse with adjustable dpi? Use the standard setting for everything, lower the setting by 3/4ths until you get better control. Once you figure out that the center is where things die start moving it back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenschild Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) 1. Insulting people based on a post which was in response to your "knee-jerk reaction" post when they are stating facts in response to your rant? Bad idea and really look in the mirror for your logic comment. (see what I did there? mirror?) 2. If you read the rebuttals to your initial post, they are indeed saying that your initial statement was untrue. 3. Paying CC is for cosmetic reasons, a +10% boost to requisition earned, or to bypass the 5k fleet requisition initial investment (that a LOT of people had stockpiled and waiting) 4. That is pay to level slightly faster... not pay to win. Funny you did not mention that subscribers get 50% MORE REQUISITION in your rant. You only focused on the CC option to buy a ship... with zero upgrades... When you add in paying CC's to convert ship to fleet at a 1:1 ratio,sorry bud...its pay to win. Also target for gunship? Maybe in TDM...certainly not in dominion if the bomber is guarding. A bomber with 1 tier 3 (repair) and 4 tier 1 pieces can easily hold a turret against a maxed gunship 1v1,if they have even a modicum of skill. I know I did it today on that exact tiered bomber. Between the mines,my drones and my shunt with the aid of the turret...you arent capturing it 1v1 with a gunship. All I have to do is circle (thereby LOSing you) let the drones and the turrets at the satellite do the damage and drop a mine when you try to circle. Rinse and repeat, Edited February 9, 2014 by Ravenschild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 When you add in paying CC's to convert ship to fleet at a 1:1 ratio,sorry bud...its pay to win. No "bud"... it is pay to level faster on one ship at the detriment of the other(s). I tell you what... come to The Ebon Hawk, pay all you want... and beat me. Until that happens... you have not won anything. -Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sangrar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 When you add in paying CC's to convert ship to fleet at a 1:1 ratio,sorry bud...its pay to win. Also target for gunship? Maybe in TDM...certainly not in dominion if the bomber is guarding. A bomber with 1 tier 3 (repair) and 4 tier 1 pieces can easily hold a turret against a maxed gunship 1v1,if they have even a modicum of skill. I know I did it today on that exact tiered bomber. Between the mines,my drones and my shunt with the aid of the turret...you arent capturing it 1v1 with a gunship. All I have to do is circle (thereby LOSing you) let the drones and the turrets at the satellite do the damage and drop a mine when you try to circle. Rinse and repeat, its not pay to win. pay to win is getting an advantage in combat over everyone that no one else can get unless they pay. the ship has the exact same components as the standard dronecarrier, exchanging ship for fleet requisition is just paying to speed things up, anyone can save up fleet requisition to get the same stuff, its not winning, its just saving time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 No "bud"... it is pay to level faster on one ship at the detriment of the other(s). I tell you what... come to The Ebon Hawk, pay all you want... and beat me. Until that happens... you have not won anything. -Gerrik/Brèn/Jordinn I've beaten you (Ar'mond/Mae'thon). Do I win GSF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I've beaten you (Ar'mond/Mae'thon). Do I win GSF? How much $ did it cost you? ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verain Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 OP is hilariously wrong. So wrong that he should change his title to anything more accurate. There are 8 types of ship in this game: the finesse scout, the battle scout, the laser strike, the missile strike, the ion gunship, the missile gunship, the minelayer and the dronecarrier. Of these eight ships, a massive FIVE have cartel market versions. It's all of them except the battle scout, the missile strike, and the minelayer. Bombers have a pretty high skill floor. If you are a noob, you will help your team a lot more with a bomber than with, say, a finesse scout. So pointing at one of the five ships that has a mirror in the cartel market and deciding it is "pay to win" means the following two things: 1- You are pretty poor at the game. If you think that the bomber is SO GOOD that you can't possibly play without it, then you are generally bad at the dogfighting. Practice will make you better, but you chose the ship that doesn't do the thing you are awful at. 2- You don't play enough. You play enough to have spent req, but not enough that you had fleet req pooled for bombers, and not enough that it was harsh to do. Even if you didn't play THAT much you could still have dropped 200 cartel coins- a pittance compared to the 1800 you actually spent- to convert 5000 ship req to fleet req and buy the bomber that way. This is not "pay to win". It's "ship with a high skill floor launched". The bomber has several counters, as have been brought up, and a good bomber will find clever positions for his summons and still be able to dogfight to a degree. The fact that, just like every other ship type there is a cartel market version, should be no surprise. This is not pay to win. I'm glad you like your bomber though, and keep practicing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowsNIte Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Between the mines,my drones and my shunt with the aid of the turret...you arent capturing it 1v1 with a gunship. All I have to do is circle (thereby LOSing you) let the drones and the turrets at the satellite do the damage and drop a mine when you try to circle. Rinse and repeat, So you killed a gunship chasing you at close range. Is that an a example of bomber superiority or of bad gunship pilots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin_Kelvar Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 4. That is pay to level slightly faster... not pay to win. Funny you did not mention that subscribers get 50% MORE REQUISITION in your rant. You only focused on the CC option to buy a ship... with zero upgrades... This pretty much. You'd also have to add in all the XP boosts that have been around for a year or more. As it stands the fleet requisition price for ships is completely achievable with just a few weeks of regular play at most. Hardly "pay to win" since it doesn't even fit the gray area of "has free currency option but the price is so laughably high and would take so many months to earn enough currency it does not in practice have a free currency option unless you're a masochist." In any event "pay to level slightly faster" is the price of getting GSF for nothing (ie not having to purchase it like RotHC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armonddd Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 How much $ did it cost you? ;P Gerrik is your pub, right? All skill, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamquencher Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 The important thing here is that "pay to save time" is not at all the same as "pay to win". As any goblin will tell you: time is money, friend. If you could pay 1800 CCs to get a character to level 50, would that be pay to win? Not really. Pay to win is... ...what the fanboys say it is. "The problem is that there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win." http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/19/the-daily-grind-how-do-you-define-pay-to-win/ Also, please don't misuse Lewis' awesome quotes. :< I have been reading The Chronicles of Narnia since before you were born. So please don't lecture me on the propriety of using C.S. Lewis quotes. Thanks. Basic Logic: If one can attain X with Y, it does not mean that attaining X with Z negates the fact that one can attain X with Y. Bottom line: I scored more (kills/achievements/assists/healing/fun) IN ONE MATCH with 20 bucks spent in the CM on the OP bomber than 2 months of frustrating GSF play. You tell me how to define that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 As any goblin will tell you: time is money, friend. ...what the fanboys say it is. "The problem is that there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win." http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/04/19/the-daily-grind-how-do-you-define-pay-to-win/ I have been reading The Chronicles of Narnia since before you were born. So please don't lecture me on the propriety of using C.S. Lewis quotes. Thanks. Basic Logic: If one can attain X with Y, it does not mean that attaining X with Z negates the fact that one can attain X with Y. Bottom line: I scored more (kills/achievements/assists/healing/fun) IN ONE MATCH with 20 bucks spent in the CM on the OP bomber than 2 months of frustrating GSF play. You tell me how to define that. And C.S. Lewis would highly disagree with the extreme amount of condensation and insults you have been tossing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Gerrik is your pub, right? All skill, baby. One of my 2 pubs... so when did this happen? When we were tooling around vs the noobies and I challenged some fellow pilots to try only "dogfighting with bombers" in a DM? Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I have been reading The Chronicles of Narnia since before you were born. So please don't lecture me on the propriety of using C.S. Lewis quotes. Thanks. So how old do you think I am? Because unless you are the oldest person on the planet currently, I may in fact be older than you... Basic Logic: If one can attain X with Y, it does not mean that attaining X with Z negates the fact that one can attain X with Y. Problem is, X doesn't equal WIN, but you seem to think it does. Bottom line: I scored more (kills/achievements/assists/healing/fun) IN ONE MATCH with 20 bucks spent in the CM on the OP bomber than 2 months of frustrating GSF play. You tell me how to define that. Man, I really hate it when people respond the way I am about to, so I guess I hate myself a little for this, but: Maybe you just suck on anything but a bomber? That's how you define 2 months of not able to get any of those achievements. The 4 dogfighter achievements that you posted as not able to get in 2 months are all the same, damage dealt in 1 match, 20k, 25k, 30k, 40k. So you NEVER have gotten a single match with 20k damage before?!? Maybe you ARE the oldest person on the planet. Untouchable is a kill streak of a whopping THREE!!!! OMG you are now a WINNER! Good thing you paid all that $$ to be so powerful! I used hydro spanner extensively since launch. Yet I did not get the Technician/Expert Technician achievement until 4 Feb. Hrmmm, maybe it didn't exist until then?!? (note to anyone else... please excuse my outburst. I just hate trolls that troll for trolling's sake.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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