cashogy_reborn Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If multiple enemies focus you, and you don't get help, you should go down rather quickly. Its what makes focus fire essential. I mean, what do you expect, to drag 3 dps around a map healing as you please? Come on now... I guess my wording did not do a good job of expressing that thought..... I am not suggesting that one healer be able to drag around 3 DPS single-handily, but compare what a Scoundrel healer can do under pressure compared to what a Commando healer can do in the same situation. Our set of tools does not allow us to cope with pressure as readily as others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlayoutourist Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I guess my wording did not do a good job of expressing that thought..... I am not suggesting that one healer be able to drag around 3 DPS single-handily, but compare what a Scoundrel healer can do under pressure compared to what a Commando healer can do in the same situation. Our set of tools does not allow us to cope with pressure as readily as others. I play both, and at first I felt very uneasy with the commando healing style, but was enjoying being able to trade or two with an enemy instead of having to always having to be on the run. I had to practice Kolto Bomb A LOT. But as I moved up the healing tree, I was really missing the "cast it and forget it" abilities my OP has. I'll gladly trade the stealth for the armor, and now I have that "cast it and forget it" ability as well. As well as a self-targeted HoT that I can use ON THE RUN. It synergizes so well with Hold the Line I can feel the frustration of the players trying to burn me down. That time where I'm either burned out of ammo or waiting for Kolto to come off CD and I'm running for my life all over the place, and I know if I stop and even try to AMP I'm dead, I can now heal myself during this. I dunno, means a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targarion Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Commando healing has always been fine. I have only on a few occasions fallen bellow 75% ammo hence I have no idea what your rotation is that causes you to go through your ammo so quickly. It sounds like they have given us a buff, which makes us now OP healing tin cans instead of just good healing tin cans. I don`t know your in game experience, so I dare not say this is a L2P issue, but I simply disagree that commando`s were never good healers. Some people need a class to be extraordinarily easy to be satisfied. I personally like a challenge, and I always believed to be a solid commando healer takes more skill than to be a competent sage or scoundrel healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) I play both, and at first I felt very uneasy with the commando healing style, but was enjoying being able to trade or two with an enemy instead of having to always having to be on the run. I had to practice Kolto Bomb A LOT. But as I moved up the healing tree, I was really missing the "cast it and forget it" abilities my OP has. I'll gladly trade the stealth for the armor, and now I have that "cast it and forget it" ability as well. As well as a self-targeted HoT that I can use ON THE RUN. It synergizes so well with Hold the Line I can feel the frustration of the players trying to burn me down. That time where I'm either burned out of ammo or waiting for Kolto to come off CD and I'm running for my life all over the place, and I know if I stop and even try to AMP I'm dead, I can now heal myself during this. I dunno, means a lot to me. The difference between Heavy and Medium armor is negligible, only a few %. I think if the Combat Medic spec was not so crit starved (bring back our 6% crit talent ffs!), Hammershot would be a better heal. If all 3 ticks crit on me, I will get ~2.1k health. If not, I will get ~950 health. With such low crit chance (25-27% for me I think), the odds of using it and having 0/3 ticks crit are pretty good. And its pretty easy to outdamage 950 health per 1.5s. Overall I really like the buff that Combat Medic got in this patch. A deeper integration of Tech Override into the class as a whole would seal the deal IMO (from a PvP standpoint anyways). Commando healing has always been fine. I have only on a few occasions fallen bellow 75% ammo hence I have no idea what your rotation is that causes you to go through your ammo so quickly. It sounds like they have given us a buff, which makes us now OP healing tin cans instead of just good healing tin cans. I don`t know your in game experience, so I dare not say this is a L2P issue, but I simply disagree that commando`s were never good healers. Some people need a class to be extraordinarily easy to be satisfied. I personally like a challenge, and I always believed to be a solid commando healer takes more skill than to be a competent sage or scoundrel healer. Did you ever use a commando to heal in Ranked PvP? And I doubt you never drop below 75% ammo in PvP, unless you just never burst heal teammates that are in trouble. Using 2 MP back-to-back puts you at 65% ammo. Tho I should have known, 87% of statistics on the internet are made up Edited February 8, 2014 by cashogy_reborn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targarion Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) Did you ever use a commando to heal in Ranked PvP? And I doubt you never drop below 75% ammo in PvP, unless you just never burst heal teammates that are in trouble. Using 2 MP back-to-back puts you at 65% ammo. Tho I should have known, 87% of statistics on the internet are made up That's kind of a stupid question isn't it? Of course I have. However if you read the comment closely, you would know I didn't say it never happened. I said it rarely happened. Has it happened to me before? Yes of course it has. Does it happen on a regular basis, nope. The original poster didn't actually specify he was talking exclusively about rank wz, rather he was making a general statement regarding the commando class in PVP. I cannot speak for other commando healers, and I suspect a lot of people when learning to heal use an inadequate rotation. I have been healing for over two years, and I have learned not to rely on MP burst healing. In fact if you read the ability tree, you should only need to use MP once to get some one up to full health in a rotation. Edited February 8, 2014 by Targarion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 That's kind of a stupid question isn't it? Of course I have. However if you read the comment closely, you would know I didn't say it never happened. I said it rarely happened. Has it happened to me before? Yes of course it has. Does it happen on a regular basis, nope. The original poster didn't actually specify he was talking exclusively about rank wz, rather he was making a general statement regarding the commando class in PVP. I cannot speak for other commando healers, and I suspect a lot of people when learning to heal use an inadequate rotation. I have been healing for over two years, and I have learned not to rely on MP burst healing. In fact if you read the ability tree, you should only need to use MP once to get some one up to full health in a rotation. And that would be evident to anyone because...... CBA to argue about anecdotes and semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeHovah Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 That's kind of a stupid question isn't it? Of course I have. However if you read the comment closely, you would know I didn't say it never happened. I said it rarely happened. Has it happened to me before? Yes of course it has. Does it happen on a regular basis, nope. The original poster didn't actually specify he was talking exclusively about rank wz, rather he was making a general statement regarding the commando class in PVP. I cannot speak for other commando healers, and I suspect a lot of people when learning to heal use an inadequate rotation. I have been healing for over two years, and I have learned not to rely on MP burst healing. In fact if you read the ability tree, you should only need to use MP once to get some one up to full health in a rotation. There are times when you're forced to rely on MP burst if you're trying to keep someone up that's being focused from a hard switch, especially in ranked arenas and even sometimes in wzs/arenas. True, there's a standard rotation for everything, but desperate times calls for desperate measures when just a simple kolto bomb or hammer shot isn't going to do it especially when you don't have BI, tech override, or any CC available after casting MP. If you're desperately trying to keep someone alive under extreme pressure, you will go down below 75% ammo, I guarantee it. Sometimes, under extreme circumstances, the standard rotation(s) isn't going to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targarion Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 And that would be evident to anyone because...... CBA to argue about anecdotes and semantics. Like I said it would be evident to people with high quality reading comprehension. What part of, "it has happened to me on a few occasions" do you misconstrued to mean, I have never fallen below 75%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targarion Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 (edited) There are times when you're forced to rely on MP burst if you're trying to keep someone up that's being focused from a hard switch, especially in ranked arenas and even sometimes in wzs/arenas. True, there's a standard rotation for everything, but desperate times calls for desperate measures when just a simple kolto bomb or hammer shot isn't going to do it especially when you don't have BI, tech override, or any CC available after casting MP. If you're desperately trying to keep someone alive under extreme pressure, you will go down below 75% ammo, I guarantee it. Sometimes, under extreme circumstances, the standard rotation(s) isn't going to work. Of course there are times for everything. That wasn't my point though. The Rotation that I use, I can get away with not using a double cast of MP. Certainly, when the time arises, I would use a double MP. It's just not my preferred thing to do. The point I was attempting to make was that, skilled commando healers, normally can mitigate their ammo effectively. It takes experience, and the presence of mind to know how to react according to the situation at hand. The one caveat I could have made, commando healing is difficult to master. Edited February 8, 2014 by Targarion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeHovah Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Of course there are times for everything. That wasn't my point though. The Rotation that I use, I can get away with not using a double cast of MP. Certainly, when the time arises, I would use a double MP. It's just not my preferred thing to do. The point I was attempting to make was that, skilled commando healers, normally can mitigate their ammo effectively. It takes experience, and the presence of mind to know how to react according to the situation at hand. The one caveat I could have made, commando healing is difficult to master. It's not difficult to manage your ammo effectively, but under extreme pressure, it's almost impossible to not keep your ammo below 50% even if you're not using MP twice. That's the point that I was making. But let's face the facts - mando healers have the worst energy management out of the three healing classes. Regardless of how skill you're, there will be times where you'll find it difficult to manage your ammo in very dire situations. Edited February 9, 2014 by LeHovah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKantner Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 I think we as a class are locked into complain mode, rightfully so I might add, only class that began w/o an interrupt etc etc. I mean if you guys think we need more of a buff by all means, in the end all that matters is what the devs can do to make the most people happy, not actually fine tune and balance things (like flyby). Just let our rep keep telling us that 2.6 isn't enough guys, worst case scenario we all get more of a buff . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cashogy_reborn Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I think we as a class are locked into complain mode, rightfully so I might add, only class that began w/o an interrupt etc etc. I mean if you guys think we need more of a buff by all means, in the end all that matters is what the devs can do to make the most people happy, not actually fine tune and balance things (like flyby). Just let our rep keep telling us that 2.6 isn't enough guys, worst case scenario we all get more of a buff . Lets be honest tho, 2.6 is not enough, at least when you look at the class as a whole. Pushback resistance isnt even a band-aid for our problems with interrupts in PvP, which affects all 3 specs. We have seen a lot of good changes to this class since 2.0, and its in a much better place than it was pre 2.0. However, with every update the devs release, its as if they just dont feel like putting in the extra effort to implement a fix that actually addresses one of our issues head-on. Hopefully the class rep questions yield something good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crysicko Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Class is fine if anything it needs a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryuzo Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Personally, the incremental changes Commando has had since the 1.2 nerf finally reached a point where I have returned to my Commando healer that I shelved for grinding a scoundrel after 1.2. I have been very pleased so far, the class can definitely compete on pure healing throughput and synergizes well with throwing out some DPS in between healing spurts vs. Scoundrels. I've been pleased with my numbers so far (yet to be outhealed or outdamaged by other healers yet, no matter the class, through 50 or so WZs). Definitely requires playstyle adjustments from Scoundrel, but it's coming back pretty quick. It feels a lot like, but still short of, pre-1.2 Mando. However, I do see where people are coming from in regards to healing while focused. We have some ability to do so, but our lack if a consistent mobile heal in a pinch (see Scoundrel's emergency medpac) can leave us in a tough spot. We need something to fill that gap to fully realize the potential. Hammer shot self helps, but still falls short of what we need IMO. I do believe we can be a viable PvP healer now, but with the caveat that I have not (yet) tried it in the competitive ranked scene. I am looking forward to doing so, however. NOTE: all opinions expressed within this post are PvP only. I make no arguments for or against Mando heals in PvE because I do not partake in it. Edited February 12, 2014 by ryuzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeHovah Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Class is fine if anything it needs a nerf. Yeah, ook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essence_of_Light Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Class is fine if anything it needs a nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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