The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[Beniboybling]

OK, so my edited reasons for why Nihilus is a no no. I must admit the details and mechanics are speculative, and I believe require work, but the conclusion is unchanged no matter how exactly it functions.

 

==================================================

 

I have to disagree concerning Nihilus' placement, for the same reasons I exclude him from the Most Powerful Lists.

 

My reasons being that Darth Nihilus possesses no connection to the Living Force, and therefore cannot and does not communicate and draw on the Force through conventional means i.e. through medium of midichlorians.

 

As a result, Nihilus cannot be compared with others who do so, and his Force powers cannot be measured with any degree of accuracy. This is the result of his status as a wound in the Force which unlike with the Jedi Exile, utterly consumed him, and would have totally annihilated his midichlorians and his connection to the Living Force.

 

Something the following sources illustrate:

His power is great, and it comes from hunger. He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake, life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger.

 

--Visas Marr

 

Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger.

 

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

What we are looking at is effectively self-draining, Nihilus' power was a self-destructive one and his ultimate fate was similar to that of the Jedi Masters after being drained by Traya:

This master is dead...drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless, it's like an absence in the Force.

 

--Taken from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Noting, most importantly, that this ability goes straight to the core, it is not a case of siphoning one's Living Force so that like a spring it can eventually bubble back up, the power actually targets one's connection to the Force itself:

As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not always used. Instead of sending one's will through connection in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.

 

--Kreia

There is no question that Nihilus condition was permanent. To understand what such a condition would entail, we have to turn to the theories of Darth Plagueis, and his division of the Force into three categories:

The aperion includes and unites all matter, giving it shape and cohesion. Aspects of aperion include gravity and electromagnetism - though the term encompasses everything in both space and time. Many of the abilities understood as belonging to the Unifying Force are tied to the aperion.

 

The anima gives life - but not thought - to animals, plants and other living beings. Midi-chlorians are responsible for inducing and sustaining anima in almost all species. Many of the Living Force abilities are tied to the anima.

 

The pnuema is the expression of conscious thought. Thinking, self-aware minds contribute to the collective pnuema, which is accessed by many naturally telepathic species, as well as by the various mind tricks of the Jedi and the Sith.

 

--Taken from The Book of Sith

Nihilus' condition eliminates his ability to wield anima, but he would still retain aperion and pneuma, his consciousness and the ability to manipulate the environment around him. Nihilus is an absence in Living Force given consciousness, and as such very much like a Sith Spirit, possessing a heightened and unrestricted ability to draw on the Force.

 

Nihilus lacks the capability to use his midichlorians to draw on the Force internally, instead all of his power is external, drawing on the Force around him to accomplish his feats - and given that the Force around him is an infinite reservoir, his powers are equally infinite, totally bypassing midichlorians and the inhibitions they apply.

 

Yet this also means that Nihilus possesses no actual power of his own, a connection to the Force that we are able to measure. Altogether, Kreia sums up his status pretty effectively:

There is no strength in the hunger he possesses… and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others—his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.

 

―Kreia

Simply put other than stating his powers to be infinite, his abilities are impossible to gauge, because it is completely dependent on how concentrated the Living Force is in any given place, and he grows stronger with each exertion.

 

P.S. One thing I'm considering though, is whether Nihilus drains the Living Force around him to essentially fill the whole in the equation i.e. his absence of the Living Force, and without it he would be unable to exist in the coporeal world, and perhaps unable to use the Force. But I am unsure how important anima is in the whole scope of things.

 

TL;DR Darth Nihilus is basically a non-corporeal entity, to whom normal rules do not apply, and as such is not counted.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I have to agree with this. (I would right? )

 

Thing is, we have starkly different opinions on a lot of things. We all have varying spheres of knowledge and are not even remotely afraid of challenging one another.

 

There are people on these forums with differing opinions from Beni, and who stray from debates with him because of it. There are probably a lot more who have issues with how I handle characters, and dislike debating me because of it.

 

I think the reasons the council choices are good is because we all have differing opinions, but maintain a good relationship and work through it almost constantly.

 

You can say we're going to simply agree on our favorite characters and leave it at that, but I'd tell you all to cast your minds back to the Master Fay placement, in which myself and Aurbere were strongly opposed. The discussion halted because Rayla supported Beni, and that balanced the scales to no one being able to call a decision. With the council In place we can happily disagree and come to a quick and decisive end.

 

It's really just to streamline the process and stop it stagnating, and I think you'd struggle to find a better triumvirate to handle it.

Indeedy weedy.

[tunewalker]

Wow Beni I am glad you were basically able to find QUOTES to support exactly what I always suspected with Nihilus. His drain is not a Natural one, he had drawn on it so heavily that he basically became it, he was essentially a Force Vampire, if he did not feed, he would slowly wither and die. The reason no TRULY powerful sith has ever done it since, is not from inability, but from not wanting to be RULED by the hunger, Ruled by the thirst, they want to rule the force, not the other way around.

 

 

The statement there is no power in his hunger, couldnt have a stronger meaning for the sith, or for the Jedi.

 

 

 

Edit: although I dont know to much about this "differing view points" of the three of you. You have differing views of SOME characters but your overall outlook doesnt seem to be much different.

Edited January 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[MarcheseAMM]

OK, so my edited reasons for why Nihilus is a no no. I must admit the details and mechanics are speculative, and I believe require work, but the conclusion is unchanged no matter how exactly it functions.

 

==================================================

 

I have to disagree concerning Nihilus' placement, for the same reasons I exclude him from the Most Powerful Lists.

 

My reasons being that Darth Nihilus possesses no connection to the Living Force, and therefore cannot and does not communicate and draw on the Force through conventional means i.e. through medium of midichlorians.

 

As a result, Nihilus cannot be compared with others who do so, and his Force powers cannot be measured with any degree of accuracy. This is the result of his status as a wound in the Force which unlike with the Jedi Exile, utterly consumed him, and would have totally annihilated his midichlorians and his connection to the Living Force.

 

Something the following sources illustrate:

His power is great, and it comes from hunger. He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake, life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger.

 

--Visas Marr

 

Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last, the whole of the galaxy becomes food—for Nihilus has become the hunger.

 

--Taken from the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

What we are looking at is effectively self-draining, Nihilus' power was a self-destructive one and his ultimate fate was similar to that of the Jedi Masters after being drained by Traya:

This master is dead...drained of life. His body is worse than lifeless, it's like an absence in the Force.

 

--Taken from Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

Noting, most importantly, that this ability goes straight to the core, it is not a case of siphoning one's Living Force so that like a spring it can eventually bubble back up, the power actually targets one's connection to the Force itself:

As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not always used. Instead of sending one's will through connection in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely.

 

--Kreia

There is no question that Nihilus condition was permanent. To understand what such a condition would entail, we have to turn to the theories of Darth Plagueis, and his division of the Force into three categories:

The aperion includes and unites all matter, giving it shape and cohesion. Aspects of aperion include gravity and electromagnetism - though the term encompasses everything in both space and time. Many of the abilities understood as belonging to the Unifying Force are tied to the aperion.

 

The anima gives life - but not thought - to animals, plants and other living beings. Midi-chlorians are responsible for inducing and sustaining anima in almost all species. Many of the Living Force abilities are tied to the anima.

 

The pnuema is the expression of conscious thought. Thinking, self-aware minds contribute to the collective pnuema, which is accessed by many naturally telepathic species, as well as by the various mind tricks of the Jedi and the Sith.

 

--Taken from The Book of Sith

Nihilus' condition eliminates his ability to wield anima, but he would still retain aperion and pneuma, his consciousness and the ability to manipulate the environment around him. Nihilus is an absence in Living Force given consciousness, and as such very much like a Sith Spirit, possessing a heightened and unrestricted ability to draw on the Force.

 

Nihilus lacks the capability to use his midichlorians to draw on the Force internally, instead all of his power is external, drawing on the Force around him to accomplish his feats - and given that the Force around him is an infinite reservoir, his powers are equally infinite, totally bypassing midichlorians and the inhibitions they apply.

 

Yet this also means that Nihilus possesses no actual power of his own, a connection to the Force that we are able to measure. Altogether, Kreia sums up his status pretty effectively:

There is no strength in the hunger he possesses… and the will behind his power is a primal thing. And it devours him as he devours others—his mere presence kills all around him, slowly, feeding him. He is already dead, it is simply a question of how many he kills before he falls.

 

―Kreia

Simply put other than stating his powers to be infinite, his abilities are impossible to gauge, because it is completely dependent on how concentrated the Living Force is in any given place, and he grows stronger with each exertion.

 

P.S. One thing I'm considering though, is whether Nihilus drains the Living Force around him to essentially fill the whole in the equation i.e. his absence of the Living Force, and without it he would be unable to exist in the coporeal world, and perhaps unable to use the Force. But I am unsure how important anima is in the whole scope of things.

 

TL;DR Darth Nihilus is basically a Sith Spirit, to whom normal rules do not apply, Sith Spirits are not being counted.

 

I admire your argument, but what you are trying to pass off as unnatural is how midichlorians actually work.

Edited January 3, 2015 by MarcheseAMM

[tunewalker]

I admire your argument, but what you are trying to pass off as unnatural is how midichlorians actually work.

 

I am actually curious as to what you mean, or what the relationship between Midichlorians and the Force is to you.

[Rhyltran]

I admire your argument, but what you are trying to pass off as unnatural is how midichlorians actually work.

 

I'd also argue that he's still a Sith and he didn't technically die so he's not a spirit either. Enslaved by his hunger or not it's still his power. Not to mention he can still use the force even if it "wasn't the same" as how others drew on it. My argument would be "If you were a Sith at the time could you write Nihilus off?" the answer is no. He was still considered a Sith Lord despite his "affliction." he might be a unique Sith Lord but a Sith he was in the end. I still think he should be included.

[tunewalker]

I do think we dont really need to argue top 5 right. In no particular order we can pretty much agree they are Luke, Sidious, Yoda, Caedus and Vitiate right?

 

 

The next 5 I am pretty sure will be largely argued (again no particular order) between Revan, Plagues, Jaina, Kyp, Exar Kun, and Vader, Star killer Plus several others I am sure just arent getting into my head.

 

If I had to try..... I would probably list them as such

 

 

1. Luke (Duh)

2. Sidious (most powerful Dark)

3. Yoda (most powerful Light Pre-Luke)

4. Vitiate or Caedus (most powerful OR and Most powerful Dark Side since Sidious)

5. Vitiate or Caedus

6. Exar Kun (Spirit quotes that I am hesitant about, but still next most powerful that I know of besides Vitiate in OR)

7. Jaina (a Skywalker, connection strength is not in question, this one I could easily see dropping a spot dependent on feats)

8. Vader (His early loss to star killer is meaningless when he practically beat the STRONGER version all still BEFORE ANH and the line about how he stronger then ever in RotJ novel speaks volumes of his progress. 80% is no laughing matter)

9. Kyp Durron (only one to be compared to "skywalkers" also may have been he only one save Luke to move Black holes... Information partially shoddy, potential for other characters here)

10. Plagues. (didnt know where to place him, but felt that he was on the top 10)

 

Revan came close to the list but I feel his best showing was in Revan Novel against Vitiate, issue is with Vittiate and Caedus currently sharing a spot and with Saba and Corran being stronger then Kyle and KYLES showing against Caedus I felt matched Revan's against Vitiate I felt by default it meant that Either Saba or Corran are either stronger or really close to Revan. That by default of course places Kyp higher. Also Plagues being Sidious' former master made it difficult for me NOT to place him on top 10.

Edited January 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

You played Shadow of Revan yet, Tune?

[tunewalker]

You played Shadow of Revan yet, Tune?

 

Yes, I have, but as per usual I consider the Raid and Planet stories to be "non-cannon to the Player characters" the events are still canon but none of the "player characters" to me were there. The other characters were. Revan was surely powerful, but I still dont think anything he does in the expansion is beyond his feats of what he did against Vitiate.

 

 

Edit: truthfully I find his feats against Vitiate to be a SUPERIOR showing to his feats in this Expac.

Edited January 3, 2015 by tunewalker

[MarcheseAMM]

1. Emperor Vitiate

2. Luke Skywalker

3. Darth Sidious

4. Master Yoda

5. Revan Reborn

6. Darth Caedus

... the rest to come...

Note: Not using banned characters.

[Beniboybling]

I'd also argue that he's still a Sith and he didn't technically die so he's not a spirit either. Enslaved by his hunger or not it's still his power. Not to mention he can still use the force even if it "wasn't the same" as how others drew on it. My argument would be "If you were a Sith at the time could you write Nihilus off?" the answer is no. He was still considered a Sith Lord despite his "affliction." he might be a unique Sith Lord but a Sith he was in the end. I still think he should be included.

Spirit is perhaps the wrong term, entity or anomaly or natural phenomena would be more important. The point is that Nihilus transcended his physical existence and its restraints and came to call on the Force in a unique and unlimited way. And those are the reasons entities like the Father, the Son and the Daughter are not be considered because they cannot be compared with Force Users who ultimately manipulate the Force on a radically different plane.

[Selenial]

1. Emperor Vitiate

2. Luke Skywalker

3. Darth Sidious

4. Master Yoda

5. Revan Reborn

6. Darth Caedus

... the rest to come...

Note: Not using banned characters.

 

Ok now I'm 100% sure you're trolling.

[Beniboybling]

Ok now I'm 100% sure you're trolling.

Yeah pretty sure only Legend is so depraved.

[Rhyltran]

Spirit is perhaps the wrong term, entity or anomaly or natural phenomena would be more important. The point is that Nihilus transcended his physical existence and its restraints and came to call on the Force in a unique and unlimited way. And those are the reasons entities like the Father, the Son and the Daughter are not be considered because they cannot be compared with Force Users who ultimately manipulate the Force on a radically different plane.

 

Except those are not and have never been Sith. Nihilus is Sith and is still part of this "mortal" plane even if he's mostly a suit of armor. The Sith Code is about transcending human/earth boundaries to become something more. Even if what Nihilus has become isn't what most Sith want he was still Sith and apart of the Sith order. So I still don't see why he's not included. He's still not the same as the father or son.

[Beniboybling]

Except those are not and have never been Sith. Nihilus is Sith and is still part of this "mortal" plane even if he's mostly a suit of armor. The Sith Code is about transcending human/earth boundaries to become something more. Even if what Nihilus has become isn't what most Sith want he was still Sith and apart of the Sith order. So I still don't see why he's not included. He's still not the same as the father or son.

What difference does a title make? How does that change the facts of my previous statement and the reality that Nihilius power is immeasurable? That he wields the Force in a manner unlike other beings?

 

I am confused as to why you fixate on the term.

 

Add to that that Nihilus bears the title of Sith in name and name only:

 

"He cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings… or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well."

 

Nihilus is a non-corporeal being, Darth or not, he's transcended physical existence and left Sith teaching behind.

 

P.S. I understand that Nihilus can be considered the pinnacle of Sith power, and in that respect can be measured. However I feel there is a cut off point were Force Users exist in a different league entirely incomparable to others. We are also measuring strictly Force Users here, meaning we would have no basis to exclude the Ones.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Rhyltran]

What difference does a title make? How does that change the facts of my previous statement and the reality that Nihilius power is immeasurable? That he wields the Force in a manner unlike other beings?

 

I am confused as to why you fixate on the term.

 

Add to that that Nihilus bears the title of Sith in name and name only:

 

"He cares nothing for the Sith or its teachings… or the Jedi. And when the Jedi are dead, he will feed on the galaxy, the Republic, and eventually, consume the Sith as well."

 

Nihilus is a non-corporeal being, Darth or not, he's transcended physical existence and left Sith teaching behind.

 

I argue in favor of this because it's simple. He was a Sith and still exists on this mortal plane. What he became would be a feat in and of itself if we were listing character feats. I'm not focused on his title. I'm focused on him. Not to mention it's not like he can't be compared to other characters. He had a major weakness which is relevant not to mention there are others who showed his level of power. Namely Vitiate and Sidious. It's not like what he's displayed completely outstrips established Star Wars Canon.

 

Personally I'm of the opinion that if Sidious became a literal Dark Side God he shouldn't be removed from being included. That should be a feat that he achieved said result in his favor. His powers are still his own. It's something he achieved via following the Sith Code. What I am arguing is that he is something that both the Jedi and the Sith had to contend with in the physical "plane." and he wasn't quite a spirit either. Yes he was an anomaly but he was still Nihilus.

 

I strongly believe he definitely contends in the top three spot.

 

Removing Nihilus from the discussion seems like a cop out.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Rhyltran

[Beniboybling]

I argue in favor of this because it's simple. He was a Sith and still exists on this mortal plane. What he became would be a feat in and of itself if we were listing character feats. I'm not focused on his title. I'm focused on him. Not to mention it's not like he can't be compared to other characters. He had a major weakness which is relevant not to mention there are others who showed his level of power. Namely Vitiate and Sidious. It's not like what he's displayed completely outstrips established Star Wars Canon.

 

Personally I'm of the opinion that if Sidious became a literal Dark Side God he shouldn't be removed from being included. That should be a feat that he achieved said result in his favor. His powers are still his own. It's something he achieved via following the Sith Code. What I am arguing is that he is something that both the Jedi and the Sith had to contend with in the physical "plane." and he wasn't quite a spirit either. Yes he was an anomaly but he was still Nihilus.

 

I strongly believe he definitely contends in the top three spot.

 

Removing Nihilus from the discussion seems like a cop out.

Anyone can exist on the mortal plane, if the Son escaped Mortis he would exist on the mortal plane, the Ones were born on the mortal plane. That doesn't change the fact that they wield the Force on a scale beyond that of mortals and that they are not bound by the forces of physical existence. We are not dealing with Heaven and Earth here, of actual different dimensions, but to what extent one is restrained by physical forces, such as midichlorians.

 

Unlike the average mortal, neither the Ones nor Nihilus were restrained by midichlorians, they transcended the need to have a medium by which they could connect to the Force, and so connected to it on a higher "plane." The only difference between them and spirits, is that they haven't become so close to the Force as to be imperceptible.

 

These lists have set a mandate of only considered corporeal beings, individuals who are bound by midichlorians and so can be compared by the virtue of using the Force in the same way on a comparable level.

 

There is also the issue, of Nihilus' fluctuating power. As a being of infinite ability one would imagine he would be placed at the top of the list yes? And yet that ability is purely external, and if those external forces are taken away, Nihilus' powers rapidly diminish. In one instance Nihilus would be strong enough to defeat Luke Skywalker, yet in another instance Nihilus is lain low by the Jedi Exile, without any change to his own integrity, only the forces around him.

 

Without accounting for the fact that considering external forces i.e. Force nexuses, are not being considered when we judge the abilities of other Force Users, it begs the question whether the same should be done for Nihilus. But in that instance Nihilus would have no power at all, so it is again a problem of measuring a power that is immeasurable.

 

Yet you talk about Nihilus abilities as if it is a matter of debate. It is not, Nihilus is not a contender for anything. His power is infinite, neither Sidious, Vitiate or even Luke Skywalker can contend with infinity. It will always be the case that Nihilus has the ability to outstrip their powers completely, given the proper external forces to draw on.

 

Heck we can't even measure his ability to draw on external energy, because it increased with every passing moment.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

I argue in favor of this because it's simple. He was a Sith and still exists on this mortal plane. What he became would be a feat in and of itself if we were listing character feats. I'm not focused on his title. I'm focused on him. Not to mention it's not like he can't be compared to other characters. He had a major weakness which is relevant not to mention there are others who showed his level of power. Namely Vitiate and Sidious. It's not like what he's displayed completely outstrips established Star Wars Canon.

 

Personally I'm of the opinion that if Sidious became a literal Dark Side God he shouldn't be removed from being included. That should be a feat that he achieved said result in his favor. His powers are still his own. It's something he achieved via following the Sith Code. What I am arguing is that he is something that both the Jedi and the Sith had to contend with in the physical "plane." and he wasn't quite a spirit either. Yes he was an anomaly but he was still Nihilus.

 

I strongly believe he definitely contends in the top three spot.

 

Removing Nihilus from the discussion seems like a cop out.

 

Even if including them, except for his one trick Force Drain thing, he only has one impressive feat by comparison to that and it's in cut content. Only thing he did else, is Force stun Exile n co and Essence Transfer from what is on the released game. I don't feel we should include his TK feat of the Ravager, as that is a mess and it's speculation on what happened, yeah it's said he lifted it off of Malachor, but he could have drawn on the dark side energies to do it....or not.

 

If including cut content, he used Force Lighting to kill a group of 4 Sith Assassins and Drain them, then he TK'd Sion + Force Lighting and Draining him.

 

That is his best feat as I see it, that is actually quantifiable.

 

Which is nice, but Sion is hardly impressive so him getting his **** kicked in isn't that great and others have done better. In fact Traya did better than Nihilus in pretty much that exact same feat really.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Wolfninjajedi

[LordCJK]

I don't get the problem with Nihilus. He could draw his powers from death stars for all we care, but he's a force user in the end. Why should it matter what's the story behind his powers.

That being said, It's hard to determine how powerful he is. I guess we are not making this top by ''how many people can one destroy in a second'' but by who would win in a duel against other competitors. And in the battle with force users he has been disproven as ''invincible''.

 

As of now, if we take post-ROTJ in consideration, it's obviously

1.Luke

2.Sidious

then it's not that easy. I'm not expert in post-ROTJ novels, so it's hard for me to determine how really powerful Caedus is. I know he has some cheat abilities. Was he able to hold his own against Luke?

Vitiate would be here, although I'm not sure if he's stronger than Caedus.

Yoda will be below both of them, even if he has good chances of beating Vitiate.

Exar Kun is pretty powerful although Yoda would beat him in combat.

After them I would place Plagueis.

 

I actually wonder would Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos make to the list. I think the second one would.

[Beniboybling]

Even if including them, except for his one trick Force Drain thing, he only has one impressive feat by comparison to that and it's in cut content. Only thing he did else, is Force stun Exile n co and Essence Transfer from what is on the released game. I don't feel we should include his TK feat of the Ravager, as that is a mess and it's speculation on what happened, yeah it's said he lifted it off of Malachor, but he could have drawn on the dark side energies to do it....or not.

 

If including cut content, he used Force Lighting to kill a group of 4 Sith Assassins and Drain them, then he TK'd Sion + Force Lighting and Draining him.

 

That is his best feat as I see it, that is actually quantifiable.

 

Which is nice, but Sion is hardly impressive so him getting his **** kicked in isn't that great and others have done better. In fact Traya did better than Nihilus in pretty much that exact same feat really.

I don't think you really understand Wolf that all Nihilus powers are external, including the powers he used to stun the Exile and use Essence Transfer, if it wasn't Malachor V, it was the planet he last gobble up, or just the Living Force around him. Nihilus did not use nexuses to buff his powers, he was totally dependent on the for his power.

 

Though you forgot to mention when Nihilus consumed Katarr with a word. That is his most impressive feat as it stands and with enough energy to draw on, he could have done to the entire galaxy.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

I don't get the problem with Nihilus. He could draw his powers from death stars for all we care, but he's a force user in the end. Why should it matter what's the story behind his powers.

That being said, It's hard to determine how powerful he is. I guess we are not making this top by ''how many people can one destroy in a second'' but by who would win in a duel against other competitors. And in the battle with force users he has been disproven as ''invincible''.

 

As of now, if we take post-ROTJ in consideration, it's obviously

1.Luke

2.Sidious

then it's not that easy. I'm not expert in post-ROTJ novels, so it's hard for me to determine how really powerful Caedus is. I know he has some cheat abilities. Was he able to hold his own against Luke?

Vitiate would be here, although I'm not sure if he's stronger than Caedus.

Yoda will be below both of them, even if he has good chances of beating Vitiate.

Exar Kun is pretty powerful although Yoda would beat him in combat.

After them I would place Plagueis.

 

I actually wonder would Tulak Hord or Marka Ragnos make to the list. I think the second one would.

Its clear that not everyone understands why Nihilus powers are immeasurable, so in response let's just leave it at the fact that Nihilus is an incorporeal entity, who are not been counted.

 

On the topic, I'm afraid due to lack of information we are not counting Ancient Sith Lords either.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Kaedusz]

He is just king Ommin gone pro in regards to his ways to adapt to the effect the dark side had on his physical body.

 

Also remember the dark sided Exile? He is a mini Nihilus.Despite not being canon,would he also be disqualified the same way Nihilus is,in this context?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Kaedusz

[Beniboybling]

He is just king Ommin gone pro in regards to his ways to adapt to the effect the dark side had on his physical body.

 

Also remember dark side Exile? He is a mini Nihlus.Despite not being canon,in this context,would he also be disqualified the same way Nihilus is?

Not really.

 

As for the Dark Exile, she still retained a corporeal form so no. The same applies for the Exile, they drained the environment around them but only to increase their capacity to wield the Force through midichlorians.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

So yeh, when does this start? Edited January 3, 2015 by Selenial

[Aurbere]

So yeh, when does this start?

 

^This.