The REAL Most Powerful Revisited

[LadyKulvax]

Well all I want is some reasons lol. I'm not well versed in Kyp Durron's capabilities and I like to be sure.

 

He thinks he is more powerful than Luke Skywalker.

He thinks he should be Grand Master.

He thought that Jacen Solo couldn't hack it as a Sith Lord.

 

He is extremely arrogant and believes himself above training on multiple occasions, he is most certainly not as powerful as he thinks he is, does he have lots of potential? yes he does, however he is also his own roadblock.

 

When Exar Kun possessed him it's because he was both arrogant enough to think he could handle the Sith and allowed himself to get into a battle of wills, where he got absolutely dominated.

 

And Exar Kun seemed to think that his 'power' was only an illusion and that is why all he will ever achieve is wild power without control, which describes him pretty perfectly.

[Beniboybling]

OK well if you guys are in agreement, I'll make the change and we'll move on to the next article.

 

See the OP for details. This one's a biggy.

[Selenial]

I should have made myself more clear. I was mainly wanting your thoughts on the subject, of course he wouldn't make the list, I just found it very interesting. I'm sure he would have been an incredibly powerful Jedi Master if he made it off Jabiim.

 

Well, yeh, I think had he reached his prime he would have made an incredible Jedi.

 

One can only wonder, if the 501'st would have Succeeded with Jedi like him in the Temple. Ground Tremors, as a Padawan? Astounding.

 

I always secretly wondered if Sidious left Padawans or knights, maybe even Masters, without reinforcements specifically so they would die, if they were extraordinary like he was...

[Aurbere]

Malgus and Traya is a tough one to decide. I have no idea.

[Selenial]

OK well if you guys are in agreement, I'll make the change and we'll move on to the next article.

 

See the OP for details. This one's a biggy.

 

I was hoping for Exile vs Revan, though a Sith Topic seems fair.

 

I vote Traya, not Fangirling here, just see her as more powerful. If anyone chooses Malgus, I'll dip into my Kaggath resources early and come up with Arguments for her.

[Aurbere]

Well, yeh, I think had he reached his prime he would have made an incredible Jedi.

 

One can only wonder, if the 501'st would have Succeeded with Jedi like him in the Temple. Ground Tremors, as a Padawan? Astounding.

 

I always secretly wondered if Sidious left Padawans or knights, maybe even Masters, without reinforcements specifically so they would die, if they were extraordinary like he was...

 

Yeah, I found his powers amazing at such a rank. Operation Knightfall would have been interesting, that's for sure.

 

At first I thought he did that to Ronhar Kim, but I was wrong, however I do wonder the same.

[Beniboybling]

I was hoping for Exile vs Revan, though a Sith Topic seems fair.

 

I vote Traya, not Fangirling here, just see her as more powerful. If anyone chooses Malgus, I'll dip into my Kaggath resources early and come up with Arguments for her.

In all honesty I think canon has too firmly affirmed Revan's place above the Exile. And the latter's lack of exposure makes it difficult to form an argument. Honestly though, I think Revan takes the ticket.

[Selenial]

Honestly though, I think Revan takes the ticket.

 

You would

[LadyKulvax]

Personally I think the Exile is more than a match for Revan, when she isn't nerf batted by a Nexus.

 

I also don't see how canon has stated that Revan > Exile when they've never had a viable situation to compare the two.

 

Revan is the poster boy sure, that doesn't mean he's better.

[Aurbere]

Personally I think the Exile is more than a match for Revan, when she isn't nerf batted by a Nexus.

 

I also don't see how canon has stated that Revan > Exile when they've never had a viable situation to compare the two.

 

Revan is the poster boy sure, that doesn't mean he's better.

 

I agree. The Exile appears superior.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

Revan is the poster boy sure, that doesn't mean he's better.

This is why, some has to be on top, and they made it Revan.

 

And the Revan novel really did pump him up what with him defeating a Dark Council member with little difficult and going on to deflect the power of the Sith Emperor himself, while achieving Oneness en route.

 

Then we have the Foundry, which had Revan launching meteors, throwing down "the power of the Force" while being flagged up with subtitles proclaiming him to be "more powerful than you can possible imagine OMG!" etc.

 

Though all in all I think there is something to be said about Revan reaching the fullest levels of his potential by drawing on the dark side, whereas Meetra remained firmly rooted in the light. And despite being a veritable master like all light siders I doubt she reached her full power.

 

I also question whether she could have become so extensively more powerful after becoming a wound to challenge Revan's own power which before he even became a Sith Lord she had yet to rival.

 

But enough of that, lets deal with the article at hand.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Beniboybling

[Selenial]

This is why, some has to be on top, and they made it Revan.

I'd say until episode 3, Kenobi was the posterboy for the Jedi order.

 

Kenobi > Yoda, Windu, Ti etc? Hmm?

 

And the Revan novel really did pump him up what with him defeating a Dark Council member with little difficult and going on to deflect the power of the Sith Emperor himself, while achieving Oneness en route.

Via Tutaminis, whilst on a world where she had far less ability to call on her own power.

 

Was this not the damn discussion of the past 4 pages? 0.0

 

Then we have the Foundry, which had Revan launching meteors, throwing down "the power of the Force" while being flagged up with subtitles proclaiming him to be "more powerful than you can possible imagine OMG!" etc.

Guiding.

 

Though all in all I think there is something to be said about Revan reaching the fullest levels of his potential by drawing on the dark side, whereas Meetra remained firmly rooted in the light. And despite being a veritable master like all light siders I doubt she reached her full power.

 

Revan never mastered either side though, he drew on both. Meetra hit the highest possible level of Light Side attunement.

 

I also question whether she could have become so extensively more powerful after becoming a wound to challenge Revan's own power which before he even became a Sith Lord she had yet to rival.

 

But enough of that, lets deal with the article at hand.

 

Lol, she was fairly close to him during the Mandalorian wars, which was pretty much him as a Darth.

[Beniboybling]

I'd say until episode 3, Kenobi was the posterboy for the Jedi order.

 

Kenobi > Yoda, Windu, Ti etc? Hmm?

 

 

Via Tutaminis, whilst on a world where she had far less ability to call on her own power.

 

Was this not the damn discussion of the past 4 pages? 0.0

 

 

Guiding.

 

 

 

Revan never mastered either side though, he drew on both. Meetra hit the highest possible level of Light Side attunement.

 

 

 

Lol, she was fairly close to him during the Mandalorian wars, which was pretty much him as a Darth.

1. That's not what I meant. I mean people have favorites. Obviously Revan is the favourite.

 

2. Still better than anything the Exile has done I'm afraid.

 

3. I debunked that argument a long time ago.

 

4. I never said he did, but by drawing on the dark side of the Force he drew closer to his full potential. Meetra may have becoming fully attuned to the light side, but that does not mean she reached her full potential.

 

5. And before he was "reborn."

 

And honestly, I think Traya would agree. She calls the Exile her "greatest student" but not because of the power she wields. Traya says "Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." Yet the Exile, "You are different. When I look at you, it is like starting at the death of the Force." I feel what Traya is saying is that Revan wielded power than the Exile does not, but the Exile had the power to free, and that made her greater.

[Selenial]

2. Still better than anything the Exile has done I'm afraid.

Hardly.

 

3. I debunked that argument a long time ago.

 

You did not. He guided them, that's it. Oh, and the smaller ones too, not even the big ones.

 

4. I never said he did, but by drawing on the dark side of the Force he drew closer to his full potential. Meetra may have becoming fully attuned to the light side, but that does not mean she reached her full potential.

Why do you seem to think that DS > LS?

 

5. And before he was "reborn."

And before she was.

 

And honestly, I think Traya would agree. She calls the Exile her "greatest student" but not because of the power she wields. Traya says "Revan was power. It was like staring into the heart of the Force." Yet the Exile, "You are different. When I look at you, it is like starting at the death of the Force." I feel what Traya is saying is that Revan wielded power than the Exile does not, but the Exile had the power to free, and that made her greater.

 

Or Traya was putting them on an equal field, just comparing how drastically different the power they wielded was.

 

Or perhaps it was a metaphor for how Surik could have Ended Revan, had she chosen to.

 

You just don't know with Traya.

[Beniboybling]

Hardly.

 

 

 

You did not. He guided them, that's it. Oh, and the smaller ones too, not even the big ones.

 

 

Why do you seem to think that DS > LS?

 

 

And before she was.

 

 

 

Or Traya was putting them on an equal field, just comparing how drastically different the power they wielded was.

 

Or perhaps it was a metaphor for how Surik could have Ended Revan, had she chosen to.

 

You just don't know with Traya.

Again I debunked your claim that he guided the asteroids, they were being suspended in a gravity field surrounding the platform, he would had to pull them out from the gravity field and then drop/launch them when gravity resumed its pull. To do that he would have to have the power to suspend multiple asteroids in the air. Nothing more to it.

 

The dark side is not stronger than the light, but it is a quicker path to power. Few Jedi (if any) follow the path of the light to its conclusion, whereas those who wield the dark side almost always do. Not even Yoda did, referring to Dark Rendezvous in which Dooku asserts that with the power of the dark side he would become unstoppable.

 

Which leads be back the the original point, I'd not convinced that Meetra regaining her connection to the Force would have made her so exponentially more powerful to surpass Revan. Seems a bit of a stretch.

 

That's exactly what I said. Revan has power over the Force in the sense of Force Ability, raw power. The Exile had power over the Force in the sense that she was free from it, it couldn't decide her destiny for her.

 

Two totally different kinds of power. But ultimately making the Exile superior, not as a Force wielder, but as a person. A notion that can only really be executed perfectly if the Exile were indeed not as powerful as Revan.

[LadyKulvax]

Revan Tutaminis'd a Dark Councillor, impressive.

 

The Exile cut Darth Traya off from the Force in mid-combat(unprecedented), whilst her opponent had the Trayus Core running through her, just as impressive.

 

Revan used Oneness with the Force to combat the Emperor, impressive.

 

The Exile could center herself in the Force using Moving Meditation to unleash the full power of the Light Side of the Force on a horde of Sith, then beat Darth Sion five times in a row and then went on to battle and defeat Traya successfully in the center of a Dark Side Nexus and not just any Nexus at that, equally impressive.

 

But we aren't actually going to compare the two with this kind of debate are we?

[Petvin]

It's almost impossible to say who is the most powerful. By pure potential it have to be Anakin (most midichlorians)

Btw you are only talking about Kotor games jedi/sith

 

All the others then? Cade? Luke? Fay? Exar kun? Bane? Naga Sadow? Andeddu? Zannah? Nomi Sunrider? Sidious?

And many others

 

There is no real answer cause the mostpowerful can mean so many different things.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Petvin

[Selenial]

It's almost impossible to say who is the most powerful. By pure potential it have to be Anakin (most midichlorians)

Btw you are only talking about Kotor games jedi/sith

 

All the others then? Cade? Luke? Fay? Exar kun? Bane? Naga Sadow? Andeddu? Zannah? Nomi Sunrider? Sidious?

And many others

 

There is no real answer cause the mostpowerful can mean so many different things.

 

This thread is about revisions to our original list of Top 10 Jedi, Sith, Both, and Saber Duelists.

 

We've got people like Cadus, Luke and Sidious on there, but their positions are solidified so we don't need to debate them.

[Petvin]

ah i am sorry then, but if you go after this article http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine and go to ''powers and abilities'' (in particular force powers)and read it , he seems to be the most powerful one.

 

I got to read the old one now

Edited February 2, 2014 by Petvin

[Aurbere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bD Max Dps

 

Really? That's not even a Youtube link. At least be honest about it.

[tunewalker]

I have one query, where did I state that on Malachor V Meetra has difficult calling on the Force and where is it stated that she did? Because as far as I'm aware while Meetra may have felt nauseated on Malachor I can't think of any evidence that shows her abilities were severely dampened, in game or outside of it...

 

Anyway I'd also point out that a wound in the Force doesn't nullify your senses. She'd still be able to feel the dark side presence on Malachor, and she'd still be able to hear the echoes. But the planet would be unable to drown her in the dark side because she cannot be acted upon, and it would not be able to devour her because there is nothing there.

 

Concerning Malachor V, it is explicitly different from other dark side nexuses. If Dromund Kaas were like Malachor for example do you know what would happen? Every non-Force sensitive on the planet would slowly die, every minor-Force sensitive on the planet would be reduced to a husk and everyone above would have a piece eaten out of them as well.

 

Malachor is much much more than just a dark side nexus, its a wound in the Force. To be in its presence is to slowly be eaten away, to remain in its presence is to be devoured. And to fall to the dark side is inevitable. The assassins on Malachor V cannot even speak. Nihilus became what he is by being abandoned on the world.

 

On top of that, its a cycle. A wound in the Force reverberates with the pain, suffering and death that created it, and then it feeds of that, propagating dark side energy in the process which it also feeds on, only to create more echoes.

 

None of this happens on Korriban, Dromund Kaas, Ziost etc. else Revan would have used these planets as well as Malachor V to break Jedi, yet he only ever used Malachor V. Why is that? Go figure.

 

And this makes it quite deadly, especially one would imagine to wielders of the light side of the Force. Especially those of the Exile's caliber. Which may in part explain why, despite being a wound in the Force, she was negatively affected, it is after all screaming with the echoes of the dead and awash with the dark side that the Exile would be able to feel. However I can't imagine it went as far as to diminish her Force strength, her wound would protect her.

 

Now concerning her apparently feeling "comfort" on Dromund Kaas (which I don't actually recall but whatever) what Drew must have been referring to here is the presence of the Force, in whatever form, as opposed to the complete and utter emptiness of Nathema that would have punched her in the gut. If you really think Drew was implying that the dark side was in some way in kinship with her wound in the Force then you have your head screwed on backwards.

 

Nonetheless you can't expect a plot hole created by Drew to be resolved by his novel now can you?

 

If she is feeling Nauseous then she isnt pulling on her full strength by definition of not being able to concentrate.

 

As for your assessment of Malachor..... I dont remember any of the people on it dieing there was an entire sith academy they never died. I also dont recall a single Elightenned light sider ever setting foot on the planet and being turned to the dark side. We have found the problem you all seem to think that Malachor V can insta kill anything and everything that lands on it that isnt a dark sider. This is purely false. How many of Meetra's allies landed on the surface with her.... all of them survived, none were turned we get comfirmation of that at the end of the game. They werent protected by a Wound in the Force. Clearly Malachor ISNT what you think it is. If you have examples of pure light siders falling when they went there please share it. If you have an example of some one Non-force sensitive or other wise dieing the moment they set foot on the surface please show this. I have played the game 6 times (once light male, dark male, neutral male, light female, dark female and neutral female) to get as many of the cut scenes that were released with the original game. I do not recall seeing a single example of this.

 

All i see is a misunderstanding of what Traya said leading some one to believe a description of a Dark side Nexus "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." is more then it is.

 

What is the Force? A mystical energy field created by all living things.

 

What is the Dark Side? A corruption of the Force.

 

By that definition what would a Dark side Nexus be? A place drowned in Dark Side energy where life is corrupted and the more death there is the stronger the Nexus gets.

 

Sound Familiar "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." it should.

[LadyKulvax]

If she is feeling Nauseous then she isnt pulling on her full strength by definition of not being able to concentrate.

 

As for your assessment of Malachor..... I dont remember any of the people on it dieing there was an entire sith academy they never died. I also dont recall a single Elightenned light sider ever setting foot on the planet and being turned to the dark side. We have found the problem you all seem to think that Malachor V can insta kill anything and everything that lands on it that isnt a dark sider. This is purely false. How many of Meetra's allies landed on the surface with her.... all of them survived, none were turned we get comfirmation of that at the end of the game. They werent protected by a Wound in the Force. Clearly Malachor ISNT what you think it is. If you have examples of pure light siders falling when they went there please share it. If you have an example of some one Non-force sensitive or other wise dieing the moment they set foot on the surface please show this. I have played the game 6 times (once light male, dark male, neutral male, light female, dark female and neutral female) to get as many of the cut scenes that were released with the original game. I do not recall seeing a single example of this.

 

All i see is a misunderstanding of what Traya said leading some one to believe a description of a Dark side Nexus "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." is more then it is.

 

What is the Force? A mystical energy field created by all living things.

 

What is the Dark Side? A corruption of the Force.

 

By that definition what would a Dark side Nexus be? A place drowned in Dark Side energy where life is corrupted and the more death there is the stronger the Nexus gets.

 

Sound Familiar "It corrupts all that walks on its surface—drowns them in the power of the dark side. It corrupts all life, and it feeds on death." it should.

 

You simply are not understanding the point being made here, at the Trayus Academy she could call upon her full power because we have a canonical statement from the KotOR CG stating she did and that it saved her. However on Dromund Kaas she was clearly unable to use any of the Force powers which she was more than capable of displaying in a neutral environment.

 

They called upon the Dark Side to sustain themselves and thus were not killed. When Revan after the battle brought his Jedi to Malachor V, he used it to corrupt them, those that didn't turn died from being drained to death, this is not theory or opinion, it's canon.

 

Malachor V is far more similar to Nathema than Korriban, Ziost or Dromund Kaas.

 

Almost the entire crew of the Ebon Hawk remained in the ship, which provided shelter from most of it's effects, just as the Trayus Academy itself did.

 

You also assume that Malachor V's effects are instantaneous, which they are not, much like Tobin with Nihilus, it is a gradual process of death and the corruption of life, which sustains the planet, much like it sustains Nihilus.

 

You are the only one who doesn't seem to understand this, yet you also don't seem to have any of the numerous texts on the subject, so stating that all of our opinions are wrong and your's is the sole one that is correct is rather insulting.

 

Play KotOR 2 as many times as you like, but considering that a whole bunch of canonical events are NOT in the game, such as Meetra having both Mical and Brianna as members of her crew, etc... then you are not going to be able to fully understand what actually happened in the Dark Wars.

Edited February 2, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[tunewalker]

You simply are not understanding the point being made here, at the Trayus Academy she could call upon her full power because we have a canonical statement from the KotOR CG stating she did and that it saved her. However on Dromund Kaas she was clearly unable to use any of the Force powers which she was more than capable of displaying in a neutral environment.

 

They called upon the Dark Side to sustain themselves and thus were not killed. When Revan after the battle brought his Jedi to Malachor V, he used it to corrupt them, those that didn't turn died from being drained to death, this is not theory or opinion, it's canon.

 

Malachor V is far more similar to Nathema than Korriban, Ziost or Dromund Kaas.

 

Almost the entire crew of the Ebon Hawk remained in the ship, which provided shelter from most of it's effects, just as the Trayus Academy itself did.

 

You also assume that Malachor V's effects are instantaneous, which they are not, much like Tobin with Nihilus, it is a gradual process of death and the corruption of life, which sustains the planet, much like it sustains Nihilus.

 

You are the only one who doesn't seem to understand this, yet you also don't seem to have any of the numerous texts on the subject, so stating that all of our opinions are wrong and your's is the sole one that is correct is rather insulting.

 

Play KotOR 2 as many times as you like, but considering that a whole bunch of canonical events are NOT in the game, such as Meetra having both Mical and Brianna as members of her crew, etc... then you are not going to be able to fully understand what actually happened in the Dark Wars.

 

So all you need to provide protection from the affects of a Dark side nexus is concrete or a metal shell. I have never heard that one before kind of new to me. If the thing says that, then I would go back to my original assessment that she was not negatively affected by Malachor and thus the fight between her and Sion or her and Traya would have been about the same regardless of what planet they are on. Since if the academy is shielding them it would be duel edge here as they wouldnt be able to pull on its full strengths either.

 

I am not trying to insult any one here i am trying to make sense of events as well as looking at the text of things. There is still no evidence in game nor any evidence given from you people who have those txt's or any thing on Wiki that show Malachor actually killing people the way you guys suggest. You have the one quote which i already debunked, if you have an event of this happening please show it I will get out of your guys hair but until then Malachor is a Dark Side Nexus like any other and it behaves like any other. The description of the planet given is the same description as would be given of a Dark Side Nexus, Traya told you how it came to be and then gave you the definition of a Dark Side Nexus, she never suggested it to be anything more.

 

You bring a lightsider to a Dark Side Nexus it will slowly corrupt them. You force a Normal Being to live in a area of a dark side Nexus and they will slowly die or have their flesh corrupted. Malachor is no different.

[Aurbere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXUPO1cXD Max dps

 

Persistent, aren't you? No one click the link!

[Beniboybling]

You bring a lightsider to a Dark Side Nexus it will slowly corrupt them. You force a Normal Being to live in a area of a dark side Nexus and they will slowly die or have their flesh corrupted. Malachor is no different.

Then why doesn't this happen to everyone living on Dromund Kaas? Malachor is quite different.

 

Remembering that in order for your argument to hold water, you're going to have to provide proof that Malachor is a weaker nexus than Kaas, or not even a nexus at all. As you can imagine that is quite a silly argument.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Beniboybling