naitee Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Does Offhand increase bleed dmg? What's the best second stats for anni marauders? crit? (even with bersek) power? (it increase bleed dmg?) /disscus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XarenKilam Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 It's my understanding that bleed damage is dictated by the skill itself and not necessarily influenced by the lightsaber specifications... I could be totally wrong though, considering the fact that direct damage from attacks is influenced. As for a secondary stat, I would take power over crit in a heartbeat. While crit might or might not benefit you, Power is guaranteed to benefit you. And it will benefit you well. Either way.... 3 bleed stacks from Deadly Saber and another one from Rupture is a lot of damage.... Owns every mob I have encountered, and when I get them on people in PvP they die whether I am CC locked or not. Bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrystolis Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 As for a secondary stat, I would take power over crit in a heartbeat. While crit might or might not benefit you, Power is guaranteed to benefit you. And it will benefit you well. It's worth taking into consideration that bleed crits will heal anni marauders. That's one area power won't help you. For a class that tends to have survivability issues, that can be very useful. Crit bleed ticks will net you the damage and a heal, which in my opinion outweighs a slight base damage increase, but of course that's up to personal preference :] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisonxxi Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 (edited) Crit is ALWAYS a bigger dmg increase than power. Even more so since you get bonus dmg to bleed crit ticks in the tree. Stat weights are crit > str > surge > power. Beserk does lower the usefulness of crit a little bit, but 1% crit = >1% dmg increase. The amount of power it takes to get a 1% dps increase is staggeringly high comparatively. Edited December 24, 2011 by harrisonxxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiledtyrant Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I would stack crit and surge. we already have an increased 30% damage to bleeds from crits you want to be abusing that talent as mucha as possible after you reach a certain amount of crit you feel comfortable you should prob stack surge. I'm probally going to shoot for 25ish% as more crit gear becomes abaible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catreina Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I am stacking crit and surge, but STR above all else. Strength gives you damage and crit, and I believe would have a higher weight than crit alone. That said, my weighting at the moment is Str > Crit > Surge > Power > Accuracy Why is accuracy last? I have 95.75% accuracy with only three acc. items - my implants and earpiece. Even with 0 accuracy, you have 100% accuracy with all special attacks (read: just about anything that uses rage), so any accuracy is a bonus. Also, your second saber is not used for attacks (as far as I have read) and is only really a stat stick. Even if this is not the case, your accuracy with talents starts at 57% so accuracy being pushed prior to any other stat seems folly. One other thing to note is that bonus damage is applied to the MAIN WEAPON ONLY. This also seems to point to the secondary lightsaber being a stat stick. In either case, put your strongest lightsaber in your main hand, and in your offhand have your weaker weapon. Note: it has come to my attention during the writing of this post that 105% accuracy is where diminishing returns begins. I have over 105% on my special attacks, but only 95.75% on my basic attacks. This begs the question, what ARE my basic attacks? If it is what I think it is, the only one is Assault, and that will be used < 20% of the time during an extended fight because of other rage generating skills, abilities and talents, thereby negating the need for "basic attack" accuracy of 105% =================================================== Anyway, here are the stat conversions I have come up with so far for the Marauder: Base: Accuracy: 90%/57% Basic attacks | 100%/67% Special attacks (+3% bonus from talents) Crit Chance: 5% Crit Multiplier: 50% 0.2 damage per point of strength | 5 strength per 1 bonus damage (235.8 @ 1179 strength) 0.00696 crit rating per point of strength | 144 strength per 1% crit (8.21% @ 1179 strength) 0.031 crit rating per point of crit | 33 crit per 1% crit rating (16.58% @ 534 crit) 0.1348 crit multiplier per point of surge | 8 surge per 1% crit multiplier (29.11% @ 216 surge) 0.2286 damage per point of power | 5 power per 1 bonus damage (1.6 bonus damage at 7 power) 0.035 accracy rating per point of accuracy | 29 Accuracy rating per 1% accuracy rating (2.75% @ 78 accuracy) Please note that the numbers are rounded up to hit the percentages - for example, Power is closer to a 4:1 ratio, but to get a single point requires 5 power in general (4.375 : 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drathmar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 That said, my weighting at the moment is Str > Crit > Surge > Power > Accuracy It should be Accuracy (to 110% on specials) > Str > Crit > Surge > Power > Accuracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catreina Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) I was noticing more misses on everything than I expected today - I missed a ton on offhand attacks during abilities that used it, and I even missed an annihilate (?!?!?!) This said, I am thinking that accuracy to at least 110% on specials is required, as you pointed out. Other than that, I still think the stat weights should be as I pointed out. Also, the 95.75% is for Basic Attacks - specials are at 105.75% Edited January 4, 2012 by Catreina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Rezo Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Does Offhand increase bleed dmg? What's the best second stats for anni marauders? crit? (even with bersek) power? (it increase bleed dmg?) /disscus Does bleed damage exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catreina Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yes bleed damage exists - as far as I can tell, offhand counts as a hit for some marauders, increasing the bleed stacks, but for purposes of direct increases.... The stats on the offhand weapon will increase bleed damage, because that is what stats do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Does Offhand increase bleed dmg? No. Only attacks that say "CAN STRIKE WITH THE OFF HAND" have offhand damage procs. What's the best second stats for anni marauders? Acc/surge, power/crit. This begs the question, what ARE my basic attacks? If it is what I think it is, the only one is Assault, and that will be used < 20% of the time during an extended fight because of other rage generating skills, abilities and talents, thereby negating the need for "basic attack" accuracy of 105% No. 'Basic attacks' = non-Force attacks = white damage. Rupture, Annihilate, Vicious Slash, Vicious Throw, Assault, Battering Assault, Sweeping Slash, Massacre, Obliterate, Force Charge = Basic Attacks. Force Scream, Smash, Force Choke, and Force Crush are Force attacks, which are yellow damage and have the +10% inherent accuracy. As a general note on "BLEED DAMAGE" (rupture DOT, deadly saber): all bleeds are flagged as force attacks. They scale based on your force power, which scales based on your power/strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would prioritize surge and power over crit. Your beserk buff is up so much in Annihilation which makes your bleeds auto-crit. Therefore crit becomes a useless stat at that point, specifically for the bleeds while power and surge will always benefit your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xO_om Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I would prioritize surge and power over crit. Your beserk buff is up so much in Annihilation which makes your bleeds auto-crit. Therefore crit becomes a useless stat at that point, specifically for the bleeds while power and surge will always benefit your skills. I believe crit is slightly devalued across all 3 trees, since they all involve guaranteed crits. During auto-crit bleeds (anni), auto-crit screams (combat) and auto-crit slams (rage), that crit rating has no benefit. Surge has no benefit to attacks when you do not crit. The two secondary stats that are guaranteed to benefit every single time you deal damage are Accuracy (to a point which is in debate) and Power. This is my opinion based on logic, not hard evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeMentalOne Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I personally don't think crit is devalued that much by the auto crit talents in the trees, especially combat or rage since its 1 ability on a 12 (with talents) sec CD. You cant have beserk up all the time (about half, you cant seem to build fury stacks while its still on) and even then its only our dots, which is all of 2 abilities. We still use a hell of a lot of DD attacks while applying and waiting for the dots to finish ticking. By ignoring crit to affect these abilities your kinda gimping yourself IMHO. It is my opinion that power is not so great, since as someone worked out its a 5 power to 1 damage ratio. Unless I am mistaken in my understanding, thats a linear scale, every 5 power will increase your skills damage by 1. Also the str you stack will give you power, and many of our abilities are affected by the large amounts of force power thats on our weapons by default. Crit and surge on the other hand are an exponential scale. When you crit you do base 50% more damage, and surge increases that % modifier. I have been stacking str, crit and surge on my mara and am now 47. I looked at my multiplier earlier today and it was just shy of 70% (with a 27..something % chance to crit) and not quite all of my gear has surge on it yet, and those that do its generally only a little bit (10-15). I only have a bit of accuracy on my gear (maybe 30 or so) but haven't noticed my miss rate being too bad (meaning i have only very rarely noticed a miss) and figure I will start focusing on accuracy when I hit max lvl and start to actually run things that are hard. I don't know coz I am not there yet but I would assume accuracy will come into it pretty heavily in the hard mode flash points and operations so at max lvl I will be switching to: acc (till i hit whatever point its eventually worked out you need)> Str > crit (probably till i get around 40+% crit rate before talents) > surge > power. I would however be interested to know if anyone has done any serious testing with alacrity and if its truely all but useless for classes that are mostly instant casts? Or if when you have enough of it our animations speed up and GCD is lowered so we can fire abilities faster, have our dots tick more times per application etc. Really seems like it would be a stat a you would need a metric $hit ton of to make a noticeable difference, and it would be kinda hard to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I personally don't think crit is devalued that much by the auto crit talents in the trees, especially combat or rage since its 1 ability on a 12 (with talents) sec CD. The context of the thread is Annihilation spec. By ignoring crit to affect these abilities your kinda gimping yourself IMHO. There's a difference between ignoring and de-prioritizing. Crit and surge on the other hand are an exponential scale. Both stats are DR'd within their conversion formulae. Crit DRs on a "one minus exponential decay" (whatever the correct mathematical term for it is) that caps to 30% at infinity. Surge is similar, capped to 50% at infinity, IIRC. Stat-wise, it's probably only useful to pump it up to ~27% for crit and ~40-45% for surge. I would however be interested to know if anyone has done any serious testing with alacrity and if its truely all but useless for classes that are mostly instant casts? No one seriously tests alacrity on a Marauder becasue the only thing it affects are the cast time of abilities that we don't have, and potentially the channel time of Choke/Ravage (I don't recall if they removed that or not). Alacrity explicitly does NOT affect the 'animation speed' (except where the animation is a function of the cast time, which we don't have) or the GCD, or the frequency of DOT ticks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudgeMentalOne Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) so if no testing has been done, did a dev say it doesn't affect these things or have people just said it doesn't affect these things? Sorry it just seems strange to say no one has tested it but we know it doesn't affect it. *edit* Both stats are DR'd within their conversion formulae. Crit DRs on a "one minus exponential decay" (whatever the correct mathematical term for it is) that caps to 30% at infinity. Surge is similar, capped to 50% at infinity, IIRC. Stat-wise, it's probably only useful to pump it up to ~27% for crit and ~40-45% for surge. de-prioritized, de-valued,ignored all pretty much the same thing, though I should maybe have used neglect instead. I feel crit and surge should be all our specs special stat priority until such point as diminishing returns get too harsh, at which point you would start looking for power. Edited January 5, 2012 by JudgeMentalOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 What is a "Force" attack and what is a "weapon" attack is actually odd. According to sithwarrior.com: Weapon Attacks: Annihilate Massacre Rupture (Initial damage) Vicious Throw Sweeping Slash Deadly Throw Crippling Slash Ravage Retaliation Force Charge Vicious Slash Obliterate Gore Force Attacks: Smash Rupture (DoT) Force Choke ticks Pommel Strike Cloak of Pain ticks Force Scream Deadly Saber Force Crush Savage Kick Ataru Form That being said, because of the innate bonuses and increases of critical bleeds in Annihilation you'll want Crit and Surge as your primary stats. Because Berserk is up a lot I'd even go so far as to say Surge is close to or above Crit, but we won't know until parsing is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostpenguins Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 ^ You're right about power being linear and crit being exponential, but I need to know how much crit rating does it take to raise your crit % by 1. I'm not home at the moment. What I really need to know is what the costs are for crit, surge, and power are. Doing some basic napkin math it seems crit and surge are equal. If you have 100% crit and .75% surge, that means you want to get them as close together as possible. If you have more surge % then crit %, get crit %. Once they equal out then focus get both. Once again, though, I need to know how much of a point affects an ability. Since no one is at 50% crit one should always stack crit over surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catreina Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 When you are raiding, your berserk will not be up nearly as much as you want it to be - because of other buffs that will be required that cost you the 30 fury and at a moments notice. Sure, you can use another cooldown to get that 30 immediately, but the fact is you might not have berserk up as often as you want. With that said however, when berserk is up you are healing your entire group (as opposed to just yourself) with your bleeds, so the more often it is up teh better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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