Why Less Low Level Ganking is good

[Randomness]

I think the idea here is simply to create a larger buffer.

 

Would you want the game to allow someone to go to Korriban, right where new players get off the shuttle, and one-shot everyone? I don't think anyone can reasonably argue that this is good for the game, if the first thing that happens on rolling a character is you get shot in the face and killed. Then when you respawn, you get shot in the face and killed. At level 1.

 

If it's not okay to let this happen to a level 1, then obviously the question is what level it is okay at. That's the issue here.

[AngryBuddhist]

Well...as a side note, being an old gamer...I really think the pvp community has also gone downhill from past games (I don't want to point a finger and say X game is the cause).

 

I remember old games when, after figthing and killing someone else, everyone would toss a "gg" (good game) "gf" (good figth) or whatever in the /say channel, or even sometimes let the guy res, rebuff and repeat the match just for fun.

 

Now, all I see everytime is ppl killing someone, and saying "u suck" "noob" "fail" or whatever other derogatory comment anyone can make.

Sure those 2 lv30 guys questing together in Tatooine to avoid gankage are such a "noobs" for getting killed by 3 lv50s...

 

Nobody is saying "don't kill them" or whatever... but you don't have to be a d-bag over it.

 

"There are few of us who still believe in sportmanship, respect, chivalry in all its forms" an old whisky add lol

 

I blame that on XBOX live. The vile cave dwelling sub human creatures that inhabit that domain are like an oozing slime of fail.

[Irishbrewed]

Once again this is not Warcraft or rift or any other mmo, there pvp servers are handled differently then those games. You can try and get bioware to change something but take a look at the design, it's not possible. They clearly made a statement that they want to keep questing separated from pvp. Like it or not that was there intention. Like I said, there are still great benefits to pvp servers in SWTOR. Since the Warzones are made up of you server, on a pvp server expect faster queue times and ideally better competition. Also you will have consistent activity in the world pvp zones on a pvp server.... This game is not the games you played previously and those design decisions will not be changing. If for some reason you find it unbearable then the short answer is, this just isn't for you. Edited December 23, 2011 by Irishbrewed

[Memento_Moris]

I see so many variants of this theme that it is starting to sicken me.

 

Ganking is not PVP. Its not. The people that actively hunt down lowbies to butcher them are Not looking for a fight, they simply want someone to bully. Lets not confuse that issue please. Bullies do not get to hide behind the tag of it being a PVP server in order to paint on a coating of justification for being douches. Douchy is as douchy does. Racing to max level so that you can go faceroll lowbies in seconds all day makes you a Bully. Congrats.

 

 

That being said, When you choose to play on a PVP server, you freely accept that you are going to have to deal with getting face rolled by people bigger and stronger than you. That is just the nature of the beast. I have always played PVP, and I always will, because I Love LOVE LOVE the feeling of looking over your shoulder, of getting jumped, or jumping some guy. That rush cannot be beat. That is PVP boys and girls.

 

Older gamers will remember EQ1 rules, where you ceded the area when someone killed you for it. If someone was douchy, you came back with friends and explained to them that being douchy was not permissable. We really need to return to that mindset. Fight the other team, but behave yourself. calling someone else a noob or saying l2p just makes you look like an ***. It doesn't impress anyone.

 

Lets hope people will band together to enforce commonly accepted tenets of play on your respective PVP servers. You have to make it work on an individual level, or the Bullies will have carte blanche because every individual will continue assuming that it is someone else's responsibility.

 

/rant

[Rheeling]

Remember when people were SCREEEAAAAAMMMMMMING about how PvP servers would just be a massive gankfest, and it lit multiple PvP vs PvE fires?

 

It's always funny when so many people are wrong

 

Plus they have the best anti-camp feature I've ever seen.

 

"Switch to Tatooine 2? I think I will. Peace level 48 stealther!"

[-kobie-]

I blame that on XBOX live. The vile cave dwelling sub human creatures that inhabit that domain are like an oozing slime of fail.

 

This, in a nutshell. The once-mature PvP community has been infected by the Call of Duty crowd. You can see the results on this very forum. Every single question or concern is met by a deluge of "L2P" and "go roll on a PvE server" comments. You can find some helpful advice every so often, once you wade through the offal that the troglodytes puke up on the forum.

Edited December 24, 2011 by -kobie-

[DJShef]

This, in a nutshell. The once-mature PvP community has been infected by the Call of Duty crowd. You can see the results on this very forum. Every single question or concern is met by a deluge of "L2P" and "go roll on a PvE server" comments. You can find some helpful advice every so often, once you wade through the offal that the troglodytes puke up on the forum.

 

Welcome to the internet, my friend

[-kobie-]

Welcome to the internet, my friend

 

Will you be my guide?

 

I am well aware of the GIDT; however, it seems much more pronounced on the PvP forum than elsewhere, which is probably the "no s***" comment of the century.

[ProntoPronto]

Hey guys remember when you clicked to join the PvP server and it was like Hey this is a PvP server were you can be killed? Yea remember that? All they are gonna tell you is level on a PvE server. If you cant handle being ganked then you shouldnt have joined on the pvp server. Nuff said.

[DJShef]

Will you be my guide?

 

I am well aware of the GIDT; however, it seems much more pronounced on the PvP forum than elsewhere, which is probably the "no s***" comment of the century.

 

The PVP forums are the most vile place anywhere, even more so than the depths of /b/.

 

At least there people are trying to be offensive or ignorant.

 

People on the PVP forums ANYWHERE are actually this dumb, and it's horrifying.

[babelfisk]

Do not tell me **** like this is not hilarious http://www.coderedonly.com/wow/angwe.html

 

Ganking is fun

[Jessicayla]

I disagree on one thing:

 

PVP servers should be a place for high level players to duke it out at random in high level areas, daily quest hubs, resource hubs or outside of instances...

 

PvP servers should be a place for anyone of any level to duke it out together. NOT level caps to attack 20s. That's ridiculous and I love hearing the QQ from griefers and their billion excuses why they do that.

 

The hilarious irony to the situation is, if they allowed that to stop happening, THEY'D quit the game, hahahaha.

[babelfisk]

I disagree on one thing:

 

 

 

PvP servers should be a place for anyone of any level to duke it out together. NOT level caps to attack 20s. That's ridiculous and I love hearing the QQ from griefers and their billion excuses why they do that.

 

The hilarious irony to the situation is, if they allowed that to stop happening, THEY'D quit the game, hahahaha.

 

No, we wouldnt. Instead we would grief you more when you reach the same level

 

Someone once camped me for 1 hour and 45 minutes, spent 3 months plotting my revenge, ended up joining the same faction as the guy, and stealing his raid-loot, took print-screens of me deleting them just for fun. Then i pretended to regret it, gave him my account, he added playtime to it and made it an officer and a guildbank. Two weeks later i took back my account and kicked everyone from the guild and took the guild bank.

 

^ stuff like that is what makes games worth playing )))

[jesusjones]

ganging is for people who want to feel vindicated for how much time they play video games.

[jesusjones]

No, we wouldnt. Instead we would grief you more when you reach the same level

 

Someone once camped me for 1 hour and 45 minutes, spent 3 months plotting my revenge, ended up joining the same faction as the guy, and stealing his raid-loot, took print-screens of me deleting them just for fun. Then i pretended to regret it, gave him my account, he added playtime to it and made it an officer and a guildbank. Two weeks later i took back my account and kicked everyone from the guild and took the guild bank.

 

^ stuff like that is what makes games worth playing )))

 

That's some Monte Cristo action dude.

[-kobie-]

No, we wouldnt. Instead we would grief you more when you reach the same level

 

Someone once camped me for 1 hour and 45 minutes, spent 3 months plotting my revenge, ended up joining the same faction as the guy, and stealing his raid-loot, took print-screens of me deleting them just for fun. Then i pretended to regret it, gave him my account, he added playtime to it and made it an officer and a guildbank. Two weeks later i took back my account and kicked everyone from the guild and took the guild bank.

 

^ stuff like that is what makes games worth playing )))

 

That's like the Ocean's Eleven of gaming.

[Urban_Scorpion]

No, we wouldnt. Instead we would grief you more when you reach the same level

 

Someone once camped me for 1 hour and 45 minutes, spent 3 months plotting my revenge, ended up joining the same faction as the guy, and stealing his raid-loot, took print-screens of me deleting them just for fun. Then i pretended to regret it, gave him my account, he added playtime to it and made it an officer and a guildbank. Two weeks later i took back my account and kicked everyone from the guild and took the guild bank.

 

^ stuff like that is what makes games worth playing )))

 

 

And to believe my group of jokers used to go around stealing portions of the other player's guild banks as a near daily occurrence. Heck we'd wait for hours on lowbies to harvest some of the worlds resources for us then gank and steal it all. Granted this was in Shadowbane, a game made specifically for PvP...that never really took off. Funny how that happens. It's like PvPers aren't a large enough group to be a valid market...yet are the loudest.

 

We did these things knowing full well that at any time a guild could say enough is enough then proceed to siege and destroy our city leaving us homeless with no safe places to run to.

 

Heck in EVE they can literally destroy everything you own with time and a little effort.

 

There's no negative consequence hanging over the heads of people who gank in this game nor in WoW...because they are primarily pve games. With no potential consequences, there should be no thrill.

 

You killed a player 20 levels below you in half a second while he was attacking an elite mob. Good for you. Have a cookie.

 

This lack of potential consequences is both the reason why players want rewards for open world pvp (read: To add a substitute for thrill) and why they should never get them.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Urban_Scorpion

[babelfisk]

And to believe my group of jokers used to go around stealing portions of the other player's guild banks as a near daily occurrence. Heck we'd wait for hours on lowbies to harvest some of the worlds resources for us then gank and steal it all. Granted this was in Shadowbane, a game made specifically for PvP...

 

Well its one thing to do it in a game where its the norm..

[Cosian]

TOR is trying to build a player base. You don't build a player base by slaughtering it's young and future players from level 10-40.

 

Yes, you may have some get angry.. Level harder and return the favor but most (80-90%) will get frustrated and quit.

 

 

There are a number of vocal PvP players that simply do not understand this concept. But I can't blame them. I blame the devs who apparently do not get it or do not care. They keep using the same failed core systems the majority of players tired of by 2005. RIFT is the most recent example and bascially SWTOR PvP is RIFT PvP only worse. As far as PvP players go ... SWTOR will be done in 4 months and people will be moving on to the next game.

 

Unrestricted Open World where a player must venture into PvP zones to continue to level does not work. The uninformed PvP player will ask for rules that expand the areas where they can gank. They will request reduction in guards, the removal of cool down zones, and the removal of fast travel options so people have to traverse their hunting ground. They will request the removal of warzone altogether so people have to level in open world .... as if this is all somehow going to increase the amount of PvP and PvP players on the server....NOT

 

That pat response when you bring this up is .... well go play on a PvE server. Again, how does that create more PvP?

 

But SWTOR has far more problems than the fact the you have open PvP in PvE leveling zones.......

 

- Gear and Valor stat PvP grind. A specific grind path for PvP versus PvE. This simply reduces the number of potential PvP players as we are unwilling to grind two paths to experience both PvE and PvP content. Even if I am willing to grind the PvP gear and Valor stats, do I really want to spend weeks getting WTFPWN'd while I level up?

 

- No brakets in Warfronts. What fun I had in my last 3 warfronts as a 22 with my < 30 team against successive premade 40 groups. The bolstering is a joke and makes little difference. Ending up in a Warfront with competive teams is an accident .... not something that occurs by design. Even if you have brakets, it will not solve the problem once you level cap .... you will then have the same problem with max gear and stat premades againt newly capped players.

 

- 2 factions without balancing mechanics .... Right now Sith can wait 20 minutes for a WF to pop while republic get in instantly. Open World PvP is going to be terrible with Sith running a 3 to 1 numbers on our server.

 

Right now their are some class balancing issues. But I could live with that, and its expected once a game gets into production. Those kind of things can be fixed or tweaked over time. That said, class balancing is the easiest thing to fix but is the smallest part of the problem.

 

If you want to create sustainable PvP, a games mechanics must provide an avenue for new players to get involved without getting their *** handed to them for weeks and weeks while they try to achieve some level of competitiveness.

[Narvakhan]

Couple things...

 

1. Republic also has to wait for WF que. It is not always instant, its usually more centered around the time of play. I have gotten instant I have had to wait a solid 20 minutes. Now you could say "Server populations are unbalanced" and I would agree with you IF... IF you said "I am tired of playing huttball". If you asking why I made that reference realize if you have a bunch of any faction queing up for pvp and the other side isn't, you will get a TON of Huttball matches against your same faction.

 

2. There are disclaimers for PVP servers. And what exactly is a newbie zone considering the STARTING ZONES which are the newbie zones aren't accessible to the opposing faction. As a Republic player I didn't run into ANY open world pvp until I hit Tatooine and Alderaan. I was last 20's to early 30's. There is simply no way that by 20-30 you should consider the zone you are in as "newbie". You can que for PVP at 10. So by the time you run into world pvp, you have had at least 20 levels of leveling and 10 to get yourself up to speed on pvp. I have to ask what did people think, pvp is like a joust, dual or sparring match? Let me explain its not. It is kill or be killed (and more like do as much as you can before you die). If its an RP issue you can only hold people accountable on the accepting sides. Any outside influence isn't under your privy. So, how is it again newbies are getting ganked?

 

3. If open pvp bothers you, do yourself (and your blood pressure) a favor and reroll on PVE. Not because you can't pvp, but because it will be a generally calmer world and any such "ganking" you will will be met with similar moral standing by your fellow server members.

 

Last but no least if you are a true star wars fan, you know conflict, war and fighting in the SW universe exists at all times.

[Narvakhan]

I knew I forgot something:

 

Brackets... no no no no no no no.

 

Here is why. If we get broken into brackets just so people can still pvp, bioware will have to match us cross server. In doing this we break down our server community to the point its just nameless faces (or faceless names) that have no meaning or bearing. There is no server reputation, there is no form of server justice (meaning it wont matter what people say or do).

 

If I pvp and act a fool, those on my server get to see it and will know me by name (good or bad). This is a level of accountability we should embrace and not look for ways to remove it. I want to know my server, both the good and the bad. I want to know those I am playing with (on both sides) because through that we have a stronger community which is the most important. After all wasn't that the reason for the guild launch with allies and adversaries.

 

Look at it long term. If there are brackets, there will be gapping holes and lack of ques in level areas and pvp will become a side bar vs part of the world we live in. I ask that you at least look all the way through the situation before you herald something familiar just because its just that... familiar.

[AHierophant]

Why would you roll on a PVP server if you dont want to run lowbie quests while playing hide and seek with max lvl geared stealthed killing machine? You are lost my friend. The PVE servers are that way. -> Leave the open world PVP to those that have the balls to survive in the harshest eviroment. Sure you will feel like a fightened child that cant make it on a "real" server. But thats ok. Thats what you are.

 

That's why I don't mind when soldiers killed Iraqi children.

 

Can't make it in a real harsh environment? Not our problem.

[Hotshyte]

If you play on my PVP server I will camp you until you log out and I expect the same. If you dont like it reroll on a PVE server. I literally will camp you until you fleet pass away or rage log.

[Kiyoma]

completely disagree. what happens on a pvp server happens on a pvp server.

 

there should be some starter zones that cant be ganked, but once you get into the mid levels it should just be open pvp. Make a negative effect bolster if you want for higher levels, but there should be pvp while you're leveling. it's part of why most of us roll on pvp servers.

 

if all my pvp was conducted in confined areas and designated areas whats the point of rolling on a pvp server?

 

and in pretty much any pvp game ever you are going to have a learning curve - you're gonna get wrecked when youre fresh and undergeared. it's part of the game. it's part of any facet in life pretty much. New at work? You probably dont have the best shifts. Do you QQ about it and say that you deserve the same shifts as a dude whos been there for years? I hope not.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kiyoma

[AkihiroKytori]

Stating that bracketing will extend the que time, means you most likely on the imp side. Sorry, I know on the republic side I get in very quick almost every time. However, sometimes I have to wait a minute or two on the imp side.

 

That being said, ive played games where ques were counted in the ranges of 20+ minutes. A couple of minutes isnt going to kill ya.

 

Furthermore, if PvP were a viable element for the majority ( Those who didnt super grind to level 40+ in the first few days ) more lower levels ( below 40 ) would PvP and the ques would be faster.

 

Your looking at one piece of a jigsaw puzzle and saying it dosent fit without looking at the rest of the puzzle.