It's your fault if you're on a PvE server and you get yourself flagged.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Oh, this thread is still going on? Well I think that either I'm the luckiest SoB ever, or getting unintentionally flagged is a LOT harder than a lot of the people in this thread would make it out to be, because I can think of the number of times I have been flagged unwillingly and it's small enough to count on two hands.

 

We've come to the conclusion that despite people claiming they are getting flagged from flagged players running into AOE's that this is not the case as it has been tested and proven that AOE's dropped on top of enemy players will not flag you.

 

Auto Attack will tho..

[Andryah]

We've come to the conclusion that despite people claiming they are getting flagged from flagged players running into AOE's that this is not the case as it has been tested and proven that AOE's dropped on top of enemy players will not flag you.

 

Just to double confirm this part ------> has anyone actually tested a flagged player running through your AoE.... which could (though should not) be different then dropping AoE on a flagged enemy player. I ask because it is conceivable that a different set of condition check code could be used for one vs the other. This requires a cooperating player on the opposing faction to properly test this.

 

Auto Attack will tho..

 

Definitely.. and probably the most common cause really.. and completely within the control of the player. Of a player has auto-target on and is tab targeting through a set of mobs, AND a flagged player moves through your line of sight.. expect to get into trouble. Turn off auto-target folks.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Andryah

[Hei_Atzfel]

Just to double confirm this part ------> has anyone actually tested a flagged player running through your AoE.... which could (though should not) be different then dropping AoE on a flagged enemy player.

 

I haven't tested it, but I've seen plenty flagged imps standing dead center in AoE's and not flag the other player.

[MaximilianPower]

Definitely.. and probably the most common cause really.. and completely within the control of the player. Of a player has auto-target on and is tab targeting through a set of mobs, AND a flagged player moves through your line of sight.. expect to get into trouble. Turn off auto-target folks.

 

Trying to figure this out. I have auto target off, and I've generally been avoiding AOEs (even though they may not lead to flagging). I have four characters I've run through the rak dailies each day:

 

55 sawbones with bowdaar

55 operative healer with scorpio

55 commando healer with dorne

37 merc healer with mako

 

The smuggler has gotten himself flagged twice. No flags on any of the other alts. Once was in the midst of the H4, so that might have had something to do with the other members of the group. But the other time I was alone, no AOEs, bowdaar tanking the correct mob (one of the packs of standard/weaker raks), me healing him and throwing in some single-target dps. Fight ends, I see my flag is on, and I'm instantly ganked by three imps (who I think had been standing around watching, though I'm not certain).

 

I know the sample size is small, but can anyone come up with a theory here? I don't see how this could be my fault (sorry OP) but it's possible and/or likely I'm missing something. I just think it's weird that this has happened with the smuggler and not the agent, since the mechanics are more or less identical.

[mikebevo]

I just think it's weird that this has happened with the smuggler and not the agent, since the mechanics are more or less identical.

I have been doing them everyday on a sawbones and a slinger and haven't had this happen. Of course I am not using a tank companion either. Risha on my sawbones and Treek on my slinger.

 

Did you click retrieve loot before getting flagged? Perhaps one of the imps was in stealth and you clicked on them?

 

Did you tab target the imp during the fight and at the same time perhaps the wookie hit them or hit them with a AoE?

 

Other than that have no idea, but I do know it is more complex that simply walking into you AoE.

 

Now I really want to know, hopefully I get flagged tonight and can look at combat logs and figure it out.

[Lunafox]

1) very few MMOs actually have true PvE only server rule sets. The majority have PvE rule sets that are actually -------> PvP by consent. Sorry that you find that confusing.. but it's been pretty standard in the industry for many years now.

 

2) If all servers were PvP, many people would not play the game. Why? because while some people like the edginess of PvP any time any place factions can mix.. the reality is the majority prefer a PvE rule set with PvP by consent. Conversely, if all servers were only PvE, then PvP players would probably not bother playing the MMO. MMO companies like to appeal to a broad range of interests in MMOs... because it makes for more players and a more successful business.

 

The core issue here is some players do not want to acknowledge responsibility for their own actions, or mistakes, that draw them into PvP. They want a toggle in preferences to make it impossible. Thing is.. I've yet to play a PvE rule set on an MMO where there was a toggle like that. Even on a PvE server, there is responsibility on the part of the player to be aware of the handful of player actions that can get yourself flagged and to avoid them if you don't want to be flagged. Nobody can walk up and /smack you and set your flag.... you have to do something careless to be leeched into PvE. This is by no means unique to this MMO either. Are their players always ready to take advantage of your mistakes? Yep.. which is why you be careful unless you are looking for a fight.

 

1) They are not irrelevant, they just are not to your liking. Notice the periodic threads complaining about getting ganked while playing, yet it's a PvP server they play on.. and forum members remind them if they don't want 7/24 PvP then roll on a PvE server??? The rule sets do have relevance here.

2) Be specific.. what MMOs have you played where PvE meant absolutely no PvP on the server??? I ask because the 800 lb gorilla in the market -----> same exact use of PvE as a rule set as this MMO.

 

 

This isn't a 'periodic thread about someone getting ganked on a pvp server'. It's about people being nuisances on PVE servers owing to a poorly designed game mechanic/exploit some use to force others into pvp that they would other wise have not engaged in.

 

I am not confused about anything like you are implying. I don't have to rattle off my gaming resume to you. I know the differences, I have played in Aion where you pvp by mutual consent with a duelling prompt. In Age of Conan the server designations were upheld and meant what they said they meant. PVP was all out war, PVE only had warzones and peace everywhere else, Pristontale was only in one town and by consent or during Bless Castle weekly war event. In Rising Force Online, pvp was everywhere except beginning areas, and you didn't permission to fight someone you just did it. Those are just to name a few. So I do know what I'm talking about, and I'm telling you that other games server designations meant something, and were enforced.

 

The server designations here *are* irrelevant, because nothing is done here to enforce what actually defines the server.

 

PVP means you fight all the time anywhere at all, PVE means you have peace and fight no where but in WZ and in RP, naming conventions should actually mean something, so that people don't have someone called IH8RPers69xXxXxX ruin your immersion. Only in the PVP server, does the rule mean anything, because that's where the fighting is, and its to be expected. RP and PVE designations mean little to nothing here because exploiters are forcing people who don't want to engage in pvp to do so.

 

The majority of issues are being cause by people who are bored and want to bother others on a PVE server. How many postings have there been besides mine, outlining about people literally stalking lower levels, in the hopes they'd use aoe's so they could gank them?

 

What I would like is for the developers to understand that this is a game mechanic that makes the game unfun for a lot of people who pay for the privilege to play here. No one should be forced by this badly made autoflag feature to pvp. This needs to be address and fixed, so that only those who want to engage in pvp can do so and those that don't, don't have to, or if they're unable to do that, then on PVE servers make pvp only in WZ that you get ported to.

 

I don't see why you're so vehemently protecting this sub par game mechanic that forces people into a play style they don't wish to engage in. PVE is PVE and people should have the right to enjoy that environment without interference by others using an exploit/bad game mechanic.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Lunafox

[Infernixx]

I agree that we have all the tools we need to avoid being unintentionally flagged while on PVE servers. I also agree that it's up to us to ensure that we don't flag ourselves.

 

That said, I think the title and demeanor of the original post is unnecessarily aggressive.

[MaximilianPower]

Did you click retrieve loot before getting flagged? Perhaps one of the imps was in stealth and you clicked on them?

 

Did you tab target the imp during the fight and at the same time perhaps the wookie hit them or hit them with a AoE?

 

I noticed i was flagged just as combat was ending, hadn't looted anything yet. And I don't think I clicked/tab-targeted anyone, because normally I'm pretty careful about that kind of thing...but this whole thread has me doubting myself.

 

I'm going to try to reproduce it. I'll take the sawbones back and just run around/fight for a while (since I did the dailies on him already). See if I can get it to happen again.

[TrystanLaryssa]

I FIGURED IT OUT.

 

...Maybe.

 

I got myself flagged in the tunnels today, but my teammate was not flagged. He had Khem out.

 

I had Quinn.

 

The mobs we hit can also be attacked by other players even after they have spawned and aggroed. This is what I think happened. A damaged 55 ran by and (probably not intentionally) hit one of our mobs. I have noticed players attacking mobs in the same areas will sort of "group"... if I walk near spawns of 55s I did not make, they will sometimes break combat with their "owners" and chase me. So... hypothetically... if a damaged 50 did attack one of our group, I wonder if it's possible that Quinn then healed them.

 

...And I got flagged.

 

Thoughts? Am I crazy? Because there's enough anger on both the accusers' and defenders' side on this matter that it's GOT to be something besides a known exploit.

 

 

PS- Just as a note... generally speaking, 25s do not deliberately flag for PvP in an area where 55s run amok. so if you DO attack somebody who is far below your level, it is most likely rude. A bannable offense? Hardly. Griefing? Up for debate. But, in my opinion, inconsiderate. Just saying.

[Tahana]

1 Thing is.. I've yet to play a PvE rule set on an MMO where there was a toggle like that.

 

Don't care about the rest of your post, but I saw this part. There is a game that has that toggle, it is called Rift. If you are out working on an dynamic event and flagged players show up and it is a PVE server. There is absolutely NO WAY that they can flag you through use of AOE or other stupid mechanic. Period, and that IS the way a PVE server should be programmed.

 

PVE Servers are PVP on consent, that should mean I have to physically change a setting or enter an instanced warzone in order for that state to be triggered.

[Elfa]

Like I said, the best solution to this issue is to require a person to manually flag themselves before they can initiate an attack on another flagged player. It's fair, it solves the problem without penalizing open world PVP and removes the ability for PVP players to "trick" others into PVP.

[HTPRO]

How exactly does one get unintentionally flagged? Yesterday in the rakghoul tunnels I were using my aoe attacks (shrap bomb, flyby) on mobs with flagged imperial players standing literally next to said mob, also used a healer companion and I never got flagged.

 

I think everyone who got "unintentionally" flagged either tab targeted an enemy player, or has the autoswitch to next target option turned on and keeps pressing (or maybe clicking) his skills even though the mob is dead thus hitting the flagged player? Either way I agree with op - you do not get unintentionally flagged (unless you are a moron)

[Kourage]

It's all my fault.

I logged into the game and started playing it. I even left the fleet. Had I never left fleet or even logged in, I would have never been flagged for PvP. Shame on me. I'll do better next time.

[Telaan]

.......during a PVE EVENT on a PVE SERVER against PVE OPPONENTS.

 

The devs did purposely design the event so both factions had to come across each other. Seems to me that unexpected pvp is inevitable.

 

This whole thing is causing entirely too much panty twisting.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Telaan

[Lunafox]

The devs did purposely design the event so both factions had to come across each other. Seems to me that unexpected pvp is inevitable.

 

This whole thing is causing entirely too much panty twisting.

 

That's the thing, on a pvp server, you would expect to be engaged in pvp. You would expect and you would be prepared or not, win or not, but it would be expected.

 

But on the pve server you don't expect to get drawn into pvp. There is a badly designed game mechanic that forces it on people who would otherwise not be pvping. It needs to fixed, so that the true spirit and definition of what makes a pve server is upheld and respected. As someone else said, Rift has a toggle, and it sounds brilliant and would be a wonderful solution for our pve servers. It would save a lot of misery both in game and on these boards.

[cool-dude]

Only reason why I am on a pve serverz Is because I don't want a 16man ops group camping a spawn area, where I can't play the game until they decide they are bored.

[CrazyMcGee]

Only reason why I am on a pve serverz Is because I don't want a 16man ops group camping a spawn area, where I can't play the game until they decide they are bored.

 

That still happens sometimes e.g. when HK quest came out, they did that in Outlaw's Den. But agreed, it's rare on PVE because there are so few auto-flag areas. Outlaw's Den and Gree PVP area must be the only two I think (aside from warzones/arenas obviously).

[eartharioch]

It's called tough love. I'm here to help players overcome adversity in these dailies because they don't want to get flagged so I'm providing them with the what to do and what not to do during these dailies.

 

Sir, you play on a PVE server. You don't have the right to use the term tough-anything. You aren't helping anybody overcome anything, you don't stand on the shoulders of any giants, you stand in the shadows of midgets.

 

People choose to play on PVE servers because they don't want "nonconsensual" OW PVP. If they are getting dragged into OW PVP against their wishes, they have every right to complain. It's up to Bioware, not you, to look into their complaints and determine whether or not they are valid.

 

BTW, it's amusing to think that you consider telling people to make sure they keep their heads down and don't look the Gankers in the eyes is "tough" love.

[eartharioch]

Now I'm curious, why are you defending this antisocial behavior?

 

I could tell you, but it's more amusing to watch it play out.

[eartharioch]

We've established AOE is no longer the cause of this..

 

By "we" you mean "Rafaman", right...since when you made the OP, you clearly believed the that AOE was the cause when you were advising people to walk small around the other faction.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Sir, you play on a PVE server. You don't have the right to use the term tough-anything. You aren't helping anybody overcome anything, you don't stand on the shoulders of any giants, you stand in the shadows of midgets.

 

People choose to play on PVE servers because they don't want "nonconsensual" OW PVP. If they are getting dragged into OW PVP against their wishes, they have every right to complain. It's up to Bioware, not you, to look into their complaints and determine whether or not they are valid.

 

BTW, it's amusing to think that you consider telling people to make sure they keep their heads down and don't look the Gankers in the eyes is "tough" love.

 

Lol...

[Reno_Tarshil]

By "we" you mean "Rafaman", right...since when you made the OP, you clearly believed the that AOE was the cause when you were advising people to walk small around the other faction.

 

When I made the OP, I simply documented what other forum users who had come to this forum complained about. They said their AOE's were causing them to get flagged. I made the OP based on the fact that mobs in the Tunnels didn't need AOE to be killed easily as they are pretty scrawny already. I made the OP to help them with Tough Love. And while my approach certainly offended people it was helpful none the less, because you see. Other forum users who I am friends with came and had a polite conversation and shared their experiences and we discovered that AOE wasn't the issue.

 

Now I know you prolly think otherwise and that's okay. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. But my point is I made this thread to help people and that's what has been done.

[Transairion]

I find it very hard to believe that, as you're now claiming, every single person who has had an issue with AOE flagging "is wrong, clearly you did something else" just because one person tested it and was fine. Not all bugs affect 100% of players, and it's never affected me personally, but that doesn't mean it isn't affecting other people either.

 

And no, sorry you can think whatever you like but "Don't use AOE" is not "tough love", "good advice" or anything between. It's outright punishing players for the actions of SOMEONE ELSE.

 

 

There's no better metaphor than the example of someone crossing the street at a zebra crossing following all the rules, who are then hit by a speeding car that plows through.

 

"Well it's your fault, just don't cross the street if you don't wanna get hit by a car!"

 

There's no way you can spin it to make it not a load of nonsense.

[Reno_Tarshil]

I find it very hard to believe that, as you're now claiming, every single person who has had an issue with AOE flagging "is wrong, clearly you did something else" just because one person tested it and was fine. Not all bugs affect 100% of players, and it's never affected me personally, but that doesn't mean it isn't affecting other people either.

 

And no, sorry you can think whatever you like but "Don't use AOE" is not "tough love", "good advice" or anything between. It's outright punishing players for the actions of SOMEONE ELSE.

 

 

There's no better metaphor than the example of someone crossing the street at a zebra crossing following all the rules, who are then hit by a speeding car that plows through.

 

"Well it's your fault, just don't cross the street if you don't wanna get hit by a car!"

 

There's no way you can spin it to make it not a load of nonsense.

 

You can't apply this to real life because you arn't going to end up in the hospital because someone got you flagged and killed you in a videogame. (inb4 medcenter rez)

 

It's not punishing players it's giving them alternate way to avoid getting flagged. The mobs in these caves die easily to where you dont need to use AOE. But that's doesn't matter anymore because two people in this thread have tested it and weren't flagged cause of their AOE's case solved, everyone was helped.

 

The caution is over.

[eartharioch]

I agree that we have all the tools we need to avoid being unintentionally flagged while on PVE servers. I also agree that it's up to us to ensure that we don't flag ourselves.

 

That said, I think the title and demeanor of the original post is unnecessarily aggressive.

 

I don't play on a PVE server, but if I haven't seen any indication that all of the players on those servers have all the tools they need to avoid being unintentionally flagged. While I agree that people should pay attention to their surroundings, I wouldn't say that that obligation clears BW of any responsibility. Of course, anybody who can read knows that the OP was more interested in trying to look tough than actually help people.

 

But I will agree that regardless of whether or not we play on PVE or PVP servers, that this thread has clearly shown us some tools.