SWTOR is NOT a single player game!

[Leen_]

Ok just a FYI from those of us who were here for the first goul event.

 

The whole idea of the goul event was to introduce the 2 flashpoints -koan under siege and lost Island and for those who don't know the virus was shipped on cargo ships to various planets by some doctor i forget the name of but the part u have to remember is that he enhanced the virus so the immunization we got on taris probably doesn't hold up to it. And it was supposed to give all the benefits of goul without the downside of turning.

 

And FYI there was more spreading of the plague then there is now cause it took 10 people to get the reward instead of the 3 now

[agamemnon-]

I COMPLETELY agree.

Do you actually believe people are doing it with the intention of "getting their jollies off"

.

 

Why the hell else would an infencted person go to Tython or Korriban? At lvl 55, they aren't there to get T7 or Vette.

[DreadtechSavant]

I don't like this event so stopped playing and am only going to restart after its finished. My point for the conversation part is those saying its not a single player game, wrong it can be its just also can be multiplayer. Other than joining a guild I have managed to play for 6 months without any interaction with other players until this event. So just stopped playing because of it. So can be a single player game if like me that's how you want to play.

 

I am all for events like this as it adds enjoyment for a lot of players, but you also have to understand that what's enjoyable for some is not enjoyable for all. How hard would it have been to put an opt out for the event?

 

As for the OP and many who agree with him in this thread (though not all), well players like him are what put players like me off these sort of games for years.

Edited January 23, 2014 by DreadtechSavant

[branmakmuffin]

"that none of you ney sayers have actually done this event..."

 

Nor do some of us wish to.

 

But the complaint is not about the event on Alderaan or elsewhere. It is about griefers interfering in the game play of people trying to access mail, the GTN cargo holds, trainers and the like. Plague spreaders being allowed to roam unmolested on the Fleet Ships and capital cities lacks immersion and any sort of "realism" whatsoever. It is just plain silly.

The game in general lacks "realism." This particular bit of non-realism bothers you, so it's too "unrealistic." As far as griefers go, use a vaccine. You will be able to access the trainers, the GTN, your cargo hold and the mail box without coughing. "Problem" solved.

 

IHow hard would it have been to put an opt out for the event?

There is an opt-out. It's called the vaccine.

Edited January 23, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[Jeweledleah]

I don't like this event so stopped playing and am only going to restart after its finished. My point for the conversation part is those saying its not a single player game, wrong it can be its just also can be multiplayer. Other than joining a guild I have managed to play for 6 months without any interaction with other players until this event. So just stopped playing because of it. So can be a single player game if like me that's how you want to play.

 

I am all for events like this as it adds enjoyment for a lot of players, but you also have to understand that what's enjoyable for some is not enjoyable for all. How hard would it have been to put an opt out for the event?

 

As for the OP and many who agree with him in this thread (though not all), well players like him are what put players like me off these sort of games for years.

 

sigh. ability to play the game on your own STILl doesn't make it a single player game. ability to go through content on your own doesn't make it a solo game. you can play this game solo, but its NOT a solo game, do you understand the difference?

 

in single player games, you NEVER encounter other people. in single player games with multiplayer component, you have to select multiplayer in order to encounter people. in MMO, which is what SWTOR is - you have to actively avoid people to keep playing solo. becasue they are there, in the same area as you are, playing through the same quests, enjoying the same game, often in the same instance. your faction, or opposite faction. you can pretend they are npc's but they're not.

 

this event? it just adds a little more effort to avoiding people. if a little bit of added effort bothers you so much, why did you even start playing an MMO? did you honestly expect not to ever encounter people? its like going to a movie theater to watch a movie, and then being surprised when not only other people are in the same auditorium and some of them start loudly talking or laughing obnoxiously, or whatever.

 

does this being MMO excuse jerk behavior? no it does not. but acknowledging that some people are jerks and figuring out ways how to deal with it is NOT the same as saying that being a jerk is ok.

 

personally, I play a lot of MMO's solo, or nearly solo. that doesn't stop them from being MMO's. that doesn't change the fact that I WILl run into other people and sometimes those people will leave me alone, sometimes they might be nice and will help out with something, some of them will ask me to group and others will try to steal my quest targets and a multitude of other scenarios. becasue I chose to play an MMO, I understand that THIS is a possibility, and just becasue I've been so far playing completely on my own, doesn't change that above is a possibility, so when **** happens? I don't act in outrage of "how DARE they interrupt my solo experience!" your outrage is misplaced. feel angry at the jerks, by all means. if you are constructive, find a way to fight back, or at least avoid them. but don't act like BIOWARE ruined your single player experience, because it was NEVER single player experience to begin with.

[ohpipoca]

SWTOR is not a single player game, but it should have been....

 

quoted for truth

[Bleeters]

Ok, fine. It's not a singleplayer game, it's online, there's going to be other people around, etc etc.

 

That still doesn't make it unreasonable that people be able to dictate the terms of what they spend their time doing, and should be afforded some protection against having that spoilt by other people being jerks and forcing certain things upon them. If that wasn't the case, there's be no seperation of pve and pvp servers. There'd be no factional restriction on attacking other players. There'd be no private instances for operations and flashpoints. The game would just be one big unrestricted free for all. Yet it isn't, because the game is designed with a mindset that people are afforded some control over what they do and don't take part in.

 

I don't think anybody is saying other people can't do their own thing. What they are saying is other people doing their own thing shouldn't overwrite their own ability to say 'yknow, I just don't want to be a part of this' and go about their business without being constantly screwed over by morons exploding on Tython or whatever.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Bleeters

[branmakmuffin]

I don't think anybody is saying other people can't do their own thing. What they are saying is other people doing their own thing shouldn't overwrite their own ability to say 'yknow, I just don't want to be a part of this' and go about their business without being constantly screwed over by morons exploding on Tython or whatever.

When you spread known falsehoods, your argument, such as it is, loses some sting.

 

Use the vaccine. /thread

Edited January 23, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[SteelPiranha]

When you spread known falsehoods, your argument, such as it is, loses some sting.

 

Use the vaccine. /thread

 

How do new players on Tython/Ord Mantel use a vaccine for 2000cr?

[Rasen]

Ok, fine. It's not a singleplayer game, it's online, there's going to be other people around, etc etc.

 

That still doesn't make it unreasonable that people be able to dictate the terms of what they spend their time doing, and should be afforded some protection against having that spoilt by other people being jerks and forcing certain things upon them. If that wasn't the case, there's be no seperation of pve and pvp servers. There'd be no factional restriction on attacking other players. There'd be no private instances for operations and flashpoints. The game would just be one big unrestricted free for all. Yet it isn't, because the game is designed with a mindset that people are afforded some control over what they do and don't take part in.

 

I don't think anybody is saying other people can't do their own thing. What they are saying is other people doing their own thing shouldn't overwrite their own ability to say 'yknow, I just don't want to be a part of this' and go about their business without being constantly screwed over by morons exploding on Tython or whatever.

 

I totally agree with your point. but do not understand why you are either missing or ignoring the ways to avoid being griefed. The vaccine does in fact keep you from being infected for 6 hours. If you die it goes away so you use another one. If price is an issue then that is unfortunate, but such is the nature of a dynamic world. Also I highly doubt price is an issue for even F2P and since we are all subs here it is even less of an issue. Yes on Tython new players don't have much credits, but 2000? That is an easy number to hit especially for subs.

 

The other 'forced' issue being PvP is again a moot point. Don't flag yourself. Don't attack flagged opponents. Be cautious when using AOE's in a zone where both factions reside. Don't group with flagged players. I guarantee you you won't be worrying about PvP if you follow those opt out steps.

 

So again what is the issue? What is being imposed on you?

Edited January 23, 2014 by Rasen

[Bleeters]

When you spread known falsehoods, your argument, such as it is, loses some sting.

Known falsehoods, you say?

 

So am I to understand this isn't Tython and that isn't the rakghoul plague debuff?

 

I totally agree with your point. but do not understand why you are either missing or ignoring the ways to avoid being griefed. The vaccine does in fact keep you from being infected for 6 hours. If you die it goes away so you use another one. If price is an issue then that is unfortunate, but such is the nature of a dynamic world. Also I highly doubt price is an issue for even F2P and since we are all subs here it is even less of an issue. Yes on Tython new players don't have much credits, but 2000? That is an easy number to hit especially for subs.

I'm not ignoring them particularly. I would, however, say the only way available - the oft mentioned vaccine - isn't adequate enough, both in terms of the protection it provides or the means by which people can learn of its existence. Personally, I don't care. Two thousand credits is nothing to me. But I can certainly appreciate why people - especially newly starting, low level people - are annoyed by this (and in particular by people specifically trying to screw them over and waste their time), and would like, say, the vaccine to persist through death or whatever they're suggesting.

 

I'm not saying the vaccine is worthless, but if you asked me how I would've designed it, I'd probably have something along the lines of a non-consumable item that everyone recieves in their mail. Problem solved.

 

The other 'forced' issue being PvP is again a moot point. Don't flag yourself. Don't attack flagged opponents. Be cautious when using AOE's in a zone where both factions reside. Don't group with flagged players. I guarantee you you won't be worrying about PvP if you follow those opt out steps.

At no point did I bring up pvp as being something people are forced into. On the contrary, it's brought up as an example of something people have to opt into and therefore have a degree of responsibility for what happens to their characters. The point is, when people say 'it's online, this is just how things are', pvp flagging is an example how the game being specifically built to not be that. The game has several barriers in place to allow people to, for the most part, get on with whatever they want to. All I'm saying is that same mentality needs to be applied better to this event than it current is.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Bleeters

[Merouk]

Having to take the steps to avoid griefing (or PVP) is what's being imposed. People don't like being interrupted from whatever they were doing in their own little world, and expect that if they chose a PVE server they won't have any PVP or their own faction stunning them with a stupid disease that they have to buy vaccines for.

 

I can tell you from other MMO's that the PVE'ers vs. PVP'ers conflict of interests happens everywhere, and the action always is to complain on the forums and in the tickets until the devs separate the two groups somehow. They'd rather not participate, and they'd rather have the devs end the whole event right now, than spend 2000 however many times to avoid it.

 

In any case, the event is conducive to griefing via that infect 3 other players thing (it should be to cure 3 players). The fact that many players choose to go for the achievements and infect others and do as they're being asked means that the fault is fully with Bioware/EA.

 

Blizzard did make the news and see quite a bit of rage during their ghoul plague event. I think their sub numbers suffered a bit, too, though not much because they had so many. If that happens here, the rage will come with the usual "It's EA / BW what do you expect" rhetoric and I'm not sure they want that, their reputation was just getting to be ok.

 

There's no way anyone will convince someone who is annoyed by the plague to participate in the event. Just like you can't convince a PVE person to even try PVP, even a little bit. The whole "just try the event" argument is irritating in and of itself.

[Jeweledleah]

Ok, fine. It's not a singleplayer game, it's online, there's going to be other people around, etc etc.

 

That still doesn't make it unreasonable that people be able to dictate the terms of what they spend their time doing, and should be afforded some protection against having that spoilt by other people being jerks and forcing certain things upon them. If that wasn't the case, there's be no seperation of pve and pvp servers. There'd be no factional restriction on attacking other players. There'd be no private instances for operations and flashpoints. The game would just be one big unrestricted free for all. Yet it isn't, because the game is designed with a mindset that people are afforded some control over what they do and don't take part in.

 

I don't think anybody is saying other people can't do their own thing. What they are saying is other people doing their own thing shouldn't overwrite their own ability to say 'yknow, I just don't want to be a part of this' and go about their business without being constantly screwed over by morons exploding on Tython or whatever.

 

people exploding on tython are a problem, yes. and bioware should definitely make adjustments to both how vaccine works (it really should persist through death) and ability of people to infect those players that genuinely cannot afford to spend 2k every time they die. (my solution would be placing an npc on a fleet near each of the quest terminals for the event, that would inoculate people for free)

 

however - unlike Blizzard's version of the plague (which I personally experienced and it was much MUCH worse, by far, then what we have here) - not only there's means of making your character immune and continuing to play, not only it has ZERO effect on in npc's including quest givers, but the only place that's unavoidably affected - is Alderaan spaceports. other then that - the entire game is still very much accessible and playable as normal without having to touch the event.

 

which is more than I can say for double xp weekends, that do affect how people play whether they want to or not. you don't even have a chance to click off that buff, or take a vaccine that will temporarily disable it.

 

and yes, it fine to occasionally have to take small additional steps in order not to participate in gamewide events.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[kimdante]

The 2 K price tag is pretty steep for a new player, they could be spending that on actual needed items. My highest toon is 30 ish and I hate to spend 2 K on it - but I do, because the coughing fits are annoying whilst tanking a flashpoint.

 

I like the event however, I bite the bullet and buy the vaccine, or conduct my fleet business in the Cartel Market which is typically pretty empty.

 

I think a simple, elegant solution would have been to assign a price to the vaccine which adapts to your level, with a 2 K cap at 55. So a newb player - level 10 - just arriving to Fleet only has to pay, say.... 363 credits. (approx 36 credits per level) - bound to character

Edited January 23, 2014 by kimdante

[SteelPiranha]

 

I think a simple, elegant solution would have been to assign a price to the vaccine which adapts to your level, with a 2 K cap at 55. So a newb player - level 10 - just arriving to Fleet only has to pay, say.... 363 credits. (approx 36 credits per level)

 

I like this idea.

 

I was also thinking that(since the event is for ~lvl 25+) only players eligible to participate in the event would have to worry about "opting-out" via vaccine.

 

Edit: This would solve any issues on low level characters IMO.

Edited January 23, 2014 by SteelPiranha

[branmakmuffin]

Known falsehoods, you say?

 

So am I to understand this isn't Tython and that isn't the rakghoul plague debuff?

You can travel to Tython when infected (and your pic is evidence of nothing more than that), but unless multiple people are lying and/or or just plain wrong, you can't spread it there.

Edited January 23, 2014 by branmakmuffin

[CosmicKat]

The subject line of this thread should be permanently tattooed to the foreheads of everyone working at Bioware Austin to continually remind them why it tanked in the first place.

[Vendd]

Ok, fine. It's not a singleplayer game, it's online, there's going to be other people around, etc etc.

 

That still doesn't make it unreasonable that people be able to dictate the terms of what they spend their time doing, and should be afforded some protection against having that spoilt by other people being jerks and forcing certain things upon them. If that wasn't the case, there's be no seperation of pve and pvp servers. There'd be no factional restriction on attacking other players. There'd be no private instances for operations and flashpoints. The game would just be one big unrestricted free for all. Yet it isn't, because the game is designed with a mindset that people are afforded some control over what they do and don't take part in.

 

I don't think anybody is saying other people can't do their own thing. What they are saying is other people doing their own thing shouldn't overwrite their own ability to say 'yknow, I just don't want to be a part of this' and go about their business without being constantly screwed over by morons exploding on Tython or whatever.

 

Completely agree with this. Bleeters is on the money here.

 

And contributors saying that people who don't want to participate in this event should buy the vaccine at cost are missing the point entirely. Why should people not participating in this event have to buy anything or be subjected to constant and random interrupt effects that interfere with their enjoyment of the game just so that others can get their jollies off by getting some silly "achievement" or piece of gear.

[CosmicKat]

Completely agree with this. Bleeters is on the money here.

 

And contributors saying that people who don't want to participate in this event should buy the vaccine at cost are missing the point entirely. Why should people not participating in this event have to buy anything or be subjected to constant and random interrupt effects that interfere with their enjoyment of the game just so that others can get their jollies off by getting some silly "achievement" or piece of gear.

 

The contributors you speak of have only one criteria in deciding what is good or bad. "Did Bioware do it?". If it is something Bioware did, it will be defended till the end of time. If the same exact thing had been suggested by a player, it would be attacked.

 

Example:

- "Forced grouping" is terrible because Bioware did nothing to force people to group and it would infringe on your Force-given rights and freedoms to chose not to group.

- "Forced event participation" is good because Bioware did it. No other reason is needed.

Edited January 23, 2014 by CosmicKat

[DreadtechSavant]

Oh outrage, what part of my post was outrage, read it again. I clearly said have no objection to events like this just said that an opt out should have been in place from the start. Fun for you is not fun for everyone so who is the selfish player here? Also said I had stopped playing until after the event. As for vaccine that cost 2000 a time but also had no time to buy as my character was already on fleet and was hit before my screen even cleared. I pay just as much as anyone to play this game and have every right to complain against something I don't like, The opt out, if it had been carried out would not have stopped you enjoying this event in any way, again who is the selfish player(s) here. If you come up with any answer other then yourself guess again. A event that puts players off playing is damaging to all.

 

FYI this post is outrage my last post was not.

[Jeweledleah]

Oh outrage, what part of my post was outrage, read it again. I clearly said have no objection to events like this just said that an opt out should have been in place from the start. Fun for you is not fun for everyone so who is the selfish player here? Also said I had stopped playing until after the event. As for vaccine that cost 2000 a time but also had no time to buy as my character was already on fleet and was hit before my screen even cleared. I pay just as much as anyone to play this game and have every right to complain against something I don't like, The opt out, if it had been carried out would not have stopped you enjoying this event in any way, again who is the selfish player(s) here. If you come up with any answer other then yourself guess again. A event that puts players off playing is damaging to all.

 

FYI this post is outrage my last post was not.

 

you have 15 minutes to buy vaccine after being hit. while some of the implementation could be improved, please don't complain about something that is NOT an issue. i.E. unless you zone in and then go afk for over 10 minutes? you have PLENTY of time to get to the nearest medical droid and buy vaccine, which removes infection after the fact as well as making you temporarily immune to future infections. and vaccine, for what its worth - IS an opt out. it just needs work in some of the situations (intro planets, warzones, things like that)

 

Completely agree with this. Bleeters is on the money here.

 

And contributors saying that people who don't want to participate in this event should buy the vaccine at cost are missing the point entirely. Why should people not participating in this event have to buy anything or be subjected to constant and random interrupt effects that interfere with their enjoyment of the game just so that others can get their jollies off by getting some silly "achievement" or piece of gear.

 

for the same reason you learn how to deal with people going for the same quest objectives you are going for etc.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Vendd]

But the point is no one is doing this to spoil your enjoyment. We are doing this because it's part of the event we are participating in, and to some extent because we need it for the tokens to buy the mounts/pets we want. It has nothing to do with griefing/harassment.

 

You are being disingenuous. All you are saying is that you feel justified in griefing other players because you are rewarded for it.

 

You know full well that you are spoiling the enjoyment of other players by your actions. That is griefing. Your only defense is that you are allowed to do it - no, are entitled to do it - because it is necessary to complete some silly achievement and get some dumb reward for it. That doesn't excuse your actions in the slightest.

[Vendd]

for the same reason you learn how to deal with people going for the same quest objectives you are going for etc.

 

Sorry, but your response to my earlier comment does not even make sense. I am not participating and don't want to participate in the silly Rakghoul Event.

[DreadtechSavant]

you have 15 minutes to buy vaccine after being hit. while some of the implementation could be improved, please don't complain about something that is NOT an issue. i.E. unless you zone in and then go afk for over 10 minutes? you have PLENTY of time to get to the nearest medical droid and buy vaccine, which removes infection after the fact as well as making you temporarily immune to future infections. and vaccine, for what its worth - IS an opt out. it just needs work in some of the situations (intro planets, warzones, things like that)

 

 

 

for the same reason you learn how to deal with people going for the same quest objectives you are going for etc.

 

Buying an item is NOT AN OPT OUT. and no not going to buy, as I said "I STOPPED PLAYING". an event that puts a player (or in this case lots of players) off is as said damaging to all. Ok in my case I'm only stopping short term, so no big loss to the company,

Going back to me saying I play solo, I play solo, saying that others are there is irrelevant. I went to see the Hobbit 2 last Friday I went on my own, if some one was to ask me who I went with, I certainly don't say with 60+ strangers. I don't care if you agree or not on that point. but an event that angers a lot of player is not good for the long term of this game. Coming back to say lots like is also irrelevant because those players were already here, its the one you (by you I mean this game) lose that's the issue.

 

As I said because I think in your case I need to reiterated, I said "I am all for events like this as it adds enjoyment for a lot of players,

 

but you also have to understand that what's enjoyable for some is not enjoyable for all"

 

That's why you need a proper opt out. not fun for everyone!

 

Your problem is you only see and read what you want to read. At least in your last post you did acknowledge that it needs work. For me that's just an opt out, not buying stuff just an opt out when you log in to say if you want to participate. What's NOT AN ISSUE FOR YOU clearly is for many going by this thread alone, not counting the many others ones which I have not even bothered to read or post in. We are never going to agree on this.

 

Maybe the real answer is to have a single non interaction with other players sever, though heroics and flashpoints might need some reworks, then again I manage to do most solo, the rest just did not do, or did not complete, but that's very few up till level 37 which is my highest levelled character.

Edited January 24, 2014 by DreadtechSavant

[Fardarter]

SWTOR is the most solo-centric mmo I have ever played. The evolution of MMOS has moved from hard to easy. The reason WoW was so successful was because it took a game like Everquest which was virtually impossible to solo for most classes and made it a hell of a lot easier.

 

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't want to play a game as unforgiving as original eq in 1999. I just had a heck of a lot more time back then and there wasn't much competition either. The problem with SWTOR is that outside of instances the game does not reward group play. I can remember non instanced events in EQ that required 50+ people to even attempt. You couldn't act like a ******* in EQ because if you did no one would help you and your character would never advance. I don't see those days ever coming back, but I think you will see new game mechanics emerge that make teamwork worth while.