Too many abilities

[Glower]

The problem lies in too many abilities to rotate through.

 

And i love it! I'm not happy with 5+1 active skills in TESO...

[Eillack]

There are hardly any abilities in SWTOR.....

[DataBeaver]

there isn't much variation at the moment (I use five/six abilities in all fights on my marauder).

That sounds suspiciously few. Are you only counting your main dps rotation or also situational abilities? Five or six is barely enough for the most important attacks of my Jedi Sentinel, and in a solo boss fight I easily use a total of 12-15 different abilities. Maybe even up to 20, depending on how things go.

[AlexDougherty]

That sounds suspiciously few. Are you only counting your main dps rotation or also situational abilities? Five or six is barely enough for the most important attacks of my Jedi Sentinel, and in a solo boss fight I easily use a total of 12-15 different abilities. Maybe even up to 20, depending on how things go.

 

Just the ones I use in every fight, there are about a doxen or so I used when appropriate, but I was just counting the obligatory ones. (Force jump, strike(repeated), massacre, a 3 bar attack (guide say deadly strike but the symbol looks wrong), Battering assault, and maybe force choke).

(I used a guide because I can't remember the names, just the buttons for them, which wouldn't help.)

 

I do use others when appropriate, but as a rule they seem to prolong fights if used all the time.

Edited January 20, 2014 by AlexDougherty

[CosmicKat]

Naga is nowhere near required for this game.

 

Simple X7 mouse with X7 keyboard is more than enough.

 

To the OP: ESO is coming out in April. I fyou wan't 5 abilities, change games in April and for now stop asking for dumbing down what is already an easy game.

 

Reminds me of what happened to LOTRO. People who couldn't cope with abilities were crying for so long and so much that Turbine finally cut more than half of abilities and made the game's difficulty lower than what you would expect in games for 7 years old

 

The number of abilities doesn't make the game harder, they just make you pay more attention to "rotations" than to the combat.

 

TOR mobs are dumb as posts. Other than some of the bosses, the rest of the mobs just stand still and wait to die. Several classes have "snare" abilities, but no mobs ever run. Several classes have CC's, but CC's are generally useless except in tough Heroics. Healers can solo all day long without ever healing. And so on.

[CosmicKat]

That sounds suspiciously few. Are you only counting your main dps rotation or also situational abilities? Five or six is barely enough for the most important attacks of my Jedi Sentinel, and in a solo boss fight I easily use a total of 12-15 different abilities. Maybe even up to 20, depending on how things go.

 

You can easily solo through most PvE fights while only using the basic abilities you have at level 10. I've tried it. It isn't hard.

[Andryah]

You can easily solo through most PvE fights while only using the basic abilities you have at level 10. I've tried it. It isn't hard.

 

You and I do not agree often... but here is a case where we do.

 

There is no such thing as too many abilities.....only player inability to make choices and manage constraints.

 

Except for the very top end group content, where it is important to maximize your characters performance... there is zero reason to use more then 2 quickbars worth of active abilities. Sure.. you can use more, if you like, but there is no compelling need during solo play.... NONE... ZIP... NADA.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Andryah

[CosmicKat]

You and I do not agree often... but here is a case where we do.

 

There is no such thing as too many abilities.....only player inability to make choices and manage constraints.

 

Except for the very top end group content, where it is important to maximize your characters performance... there is zero reason to use more then 2 quickbars worth of active abilities. Sure.. you can use more, if you like, but there is no compelling need during solo play.... NONE... ZIP... NADA.

 

Don't get ahead of yourself.

 

I blame bad, or really non-existent AI, for rendering half of the game's abilities irrelevant clutter.

 

You blame the players for using them even if they are irrelevant.

[Drew_Braxton]

Dumbing down abilities and ability trees is why myself and many others left other MMOs to come to swtor. BAD idea.

[DataBeaver]

Just the ones I use in every fight, there are about a doxen or so I used when appropriate, but I was just counting the obligatory ones. (Force jump, strike(repeated), massacre, a 3 bar attack (guide say deadly strike but the symbol looks wrong), Battering assault, and maybe force choke).

(I used a guide because I can't remember the names, just the buttons for them, which wouldn't help.)

 

I do use others when appropriate, but as a rule they seem to prolong fights if used all the time.

I guess I misinterpreted then. I read it as "I beat all fights with only six abilities". Trash fights in solo content are indeed so easy that often I don't have time to fire off the more sophisticated abilities before the mobs are all dead.

[DOHboy]

there are varying degrees of abilities that are used.

 

Some abilities are good early but fail to progress and get replaced by better abilities later on. Some abilities tend to be tied to very specific situations and are typically one off/specialties (anyone remember hilt strikes that only worked during stuns). There might be skill useful in PVP that are not overly useful in PVE (some roots, stuns, slows etc). Some abilities are useful for a particular tree and less useful for other trees.

 

So to say abilities are "useless" basically says you have not found a use for them YET. Not that there isn't an intended use by the devs.

 

Yes some skills are less useful than others, just depends on your play style.

[CosmicKat]

Dumbing down abilities and ability trees is why myself and many others left other MMOs to come to swtor. BAD idea.

 

Everquest, City of Heroes. Two examples of far more challenging games with far less abilities.

 

AI, dungeon design, class interdependencies, class weaknesses... these are what makes MMO's challenging, not the number of buttons you mash.

[Andryah]

Don't get ahead of yourself.

 

I blame bad, or really non-existent AI, for rendering half of the game's abilities irrelevant clutter.

 

You blame the players for using them even if they are irrelevant.

 

I'm not blaming anybody or anything actually. So, please don't put me in your perpetual blame machine.

 

So.. you are saying that players bear absolutely no responsibility for dialing in an MMO to their preferred play style? Really. So.. I guess it's up to the company to hand tune the MMO for each and every players special needs? Oh yeah.. that's the path to success with MMO players..

 

Get real. The abilities are not irrelevant... they represent components of choice for the player to mix and match to meet their particular play style and desire. They are a tool kit. The player is the craftsperson.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Andryah

[CosmicKat]

I'm not blaming anybody or anything actually. So, please don't put me in your perpetual blame machine.

 

So.. you are saying that players bear absolutely no responsibility for dialing in an MMO to their preferred play style? Really. So.. I guess it's up to the company to hand tune the MMO for each and every players special needs? Oh yeah.. that's the path to success with MMO players..

 

Get real. The abilities are not irrelevant... they represent components of choice for the player to mix and match to meet their particular play style and desire. They are a tool kit. The player is the craftsperson.

 

Exactly. The players have a fully outfitted carpenter's shop to assemble an IKEA table.

[slafko]

I get what you are saying, but I think the main idea is that no group (or individual) should be at a disadvantage because he lacks a companion of a said class. As for only having eight Abilities, it would drag the variation in fights down to nil, and there isn't much variation at the moment (I use five/six abilities in all fights on my marauder).

 

Give how this game is set up, the number of abilities is about right, if anything we need a few more on some classes.

The only reason why you're using half a dozen abilities is because others are either not worth using or do not work well with the rest of the team. This game is, basically, a race in skill-spamming with little thought about synergy with other members of the team.

[Gokkus]

Go play a Commando...problem solved.

 

You know, the abilities you use also depend on the skill tree you choose right? Some skill trees make specific abilities pretty much useless. The only class I could somewhat agree with you is the IA/smuggler, the others seem fine to me.

[AlexDougherty]

The only reason why you're using half a dozen abilities is because others are either not worth using or do not work well with the rest of the team. This game is, basically, a race in skill-spamming with little thought about synergy with other members of the team.

 

I do use other abilities but they are situation specific, I don't use stun droid on organics, I don't use force scream of weak opponents, or master strike on short fights, or pain cloak on short fights either.

 

As I said to someone else six abilities are the basis of every fight, with others thrown in when appropriate, with a more limited set I could do far less, and the abilities are set for a range of scenarios. Yes some abilities are outgrown, and some are useless, I don't use these. But we really don't have too many, it's just they are not suitable for all circumstances, you just have to set up your quickbars right, and be aware of what they do.

 

You also seem to have missed the point that you shouldn't have to rely on other classes, for example last week 8 Guardians took down a tough boss, now if their abilities required other classes to reach full potential they couldn't have done it, but they still worked as a team. Yes it would be nice if we had a few abilities that boosted comrades, but it should never be a pre-requisite of how you play.

[Dhamploc]

Exactly. The players have a fully outfitted carpenter's shop to assemble an IKEA table.

 

I actually really like this analogy - you can get away with using a handful of tools (an Allen Key, maybe a screwdriver and a hammer) and get a table.

Or you can use all of the tools (planes, saws, maybe a lathe) and get a more robust table, that is more stable on an uneven floor, and is the perfect fit for the alcove you want to put it in.

 

Either way, you still have a table.

[DataBeaver]

Yes some abilities are outgrown, and some are useless

SW:TOR's abilities actually stay relevant pretty well. No single character uses all of them, but I bet all of them are useful for some spec. Perhaps it's a spec very few like to play, but still. One key point here is that all abilities scale by character stats.

 

Contrast this with Anarchy Online, where nanoprograms don't scale at all. You need to acquire new heals, nukes, buffs and whatnot every few levels because the old ones are insufficient for higher-level fights. The most nanoprogram-heavy class has more than 200 different nukes, of which less than five are used after reaching the highest level!

[ItachiZaku]

There are way too many similar abilities for each character.

 

Can we cut down on the ability spam?

 

Thanks

 

I dunno, I feel a guardian/juggernaut tank is handcuffed compared to a shadow/assassin.

[Rabenschwinge]

I feel sympathetic towards the OP. I don't like games where game functions come more and more detached from the action you see on screen either. Having a limited set of abilities which need to be carefully chosen available at any given time seems a lot more interesting. Along with more diverse motion options and limits, more sophisticated line of sight, influence of light, effects of motion on precision, soft and hard cover and a generally more immediate control over the character.

 

I passionately hate procs, billions of abilities that basically do the same and have complex game mechanical results which hardly translate to the action on screen at all and lets "tactics" succumb to a game of pushing numbers instead of playing the enemy as you see it on screen. Especially in situations when all your actual tactical abiliities don't work anymore because the enemy is bluntly immune to it and all that matters is use those mechanics to generate a massive amount of damage per time (or healing or absorbing it, depending on your role). That's a needless additional layer of abstraction that I find not enjoyable at all.

 

However, the number of abilities and the game works is deeply integrated into the game that there is no way of changing it. It simply how the game works on a very fundamental level... Even if it could be changed on a technical level (which I doubt), the community as a whole would probably think as highly about it as about the NGE in SWG.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Rabenschwinge