F-T2 Quell - What is this good for?

[Kain_Turinbar]

This ship does seem to be very unpopular too I might add.

 

I think I played about 12 matches yesterday and saw maybe one other player use a Pike or Quell (other than myself).

Edited January 13, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar

[Nemarus]

Well you have to factor in the utility aspects of ion upgraded. It can slow down enemy ships a whopping 40% for a whopping 12 seconds. If they try to run away after that, they're perfect bait for concussion missile. If they stay, finish with lasers.

 

The problem is you will never, ever lock on to an experienced pilot with Ion Missiles. Keeping someone in 20 degrees for 2.7 seconds, at less than 5k seconds is VERY HARD.

 

And Concussion Missiles slow by 30% for 15 seconds, and drain 25 engine power. And do tons more damage. And can be locked on from 7k in 2.7 seconds.

 

Ion Missiles either need 7k range or a 1.3 second lock on. Though the latter wouldn't be all that useful either, because at that short range you're already chewing through people's shields with blasters.

 

Ion Missiles would be excellent if they could be fired from 7k. Fire them on your way in... once you arrive at your target, they are slowed and their shields are down.

[Armonddd]

Well you have to factor in the utility aspects of ion upgraded.

 

The utility aspects? You mean the five points of weapon and engine power? Five points, out of a pool of at least 100? Or do you mean the 40% slow I can negate by boosting? Or do you mean the power regen debuff, which I can almost completely negate by, again, boosting and weaving out of threat range?

 

The best you can say about the utility aspects of an upgraded ion missile is that it forces the target to burn a cooldown in the form of either Distortion Field or Booster Recharge so you don't blow them up with lasers. Unfortunately, anyone with either of them is probably not going to get hit in the first place - and clusters still get a kill where ions get piddly debuffs.

 

Seriously, try clusters out sometime. They're much stronger.

[-KeggER-]

Remember the song, "WAR! What is it good for, absolutely nothing! ...Good god"

 

Well this topic makes me think of that. I use the quell when I just want to sit back and lob protons and concs at people. It's a fairly fun ship to play, but if I want to be effective, sting or GS is the way I go. Hopefully when bombers arrive they'll be somewhat effective against those.

 

 

Ps I know you all have that song stuck in your head now

[Armonddd]

Ps I know you all have that song stuck in your head now

 

Nah, Another One Bites the Dust just came on Pandora. Superior song.

 

And yeah, I'm expecting Quells to be somewhat more effective against bombers, since they start with 10%/18% damage reduction. That said, burst cannons can get armor penetration... should probably change that.

[Luneward]

The utility aspects? You mean the five points of weapon and engine power? Five points, out of a pool of at least 100? Or do you mean the 40% slow I can negate by boosting? Or do you mean the power regen debuff, which I can almost completely negate by, again, boosting and weaving out of threat range?

.

 

Yeah, pretty much that. The only way the ion would be worth using is if it completely hosed a target's engine and weapon power pools the way an ion rail cannon did. Though if you're going to waste a slot on ion missiles, you may as well just use a Rycer/Star Guard and get the same depletion effect from upgraded ion blasters while you are locking cluster/concussion missiles.

 

Nah, Another One Bites the Dust just came on Pandora. Superior song.

 

And yeah, I'm expecting Quells to be somewhat more effective against bombers, since they start with 10%/18% damage reduction. That said, burst cannons can get armor penetration... should probably change that.

 

Probably. Doesn't look like they care about its armor pen at the moment though. Not sure that is necessarily so effective given that mine range is about 4k meters. Heavy lasers, concussion/proton missiles, and railguns will be the anti-bomber weapons. Using a burst laser on a bomber is just asking to get a mine in the face.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Luneward

[Itkovian]

Is there anything F-T2 is best at in practise?

Is it any advantage to have two types of missiles if there is only one type of laser?

 

What is the point in proton torpedo when it is quite easy to get away from it both during lock-on and after torpedo is fired? Only an unexperienced player would take damage from proton torpedo.

So, what is this ship good for?

 

Actually, I have good success with my Pike's Protorps, including against good pilots. It is certainly not a good weapon for one on one dogfights, of course, and it requires good timing, but it has its uses, particularly once its range and speed is upgraded. And I imagine that bombers will make them more useful as well, as will any upcoming game mode that requires attacking objectives.

 

Personally I like the versatility granted by having 2 missiles options, and by combining Protorps and Clusters I do rather well at all ranges, with Quad Lasers providing good all-around hitting power.

 

Also, the suggested Heavy Laser/Concussions/Protorps is likely a very good guild as well, which will probably become even more useful when TDM is released, where having a medium to long range focus is probably going to be very useful (less need to take out sat humpers, or trying to hold sats yourself).

Edited January 14, 2014 by Itkovian

[Luneward]

 

Also, the suggested Heavy Laser/Concussions/Protorps is likely a very good guild as well, which will probably become even more useful when TDM is released, where having a medium to long range focus is probably going to be very useful (less need to take out sat humpers, or trying to hold sats yourself).

 

Only if you have a dedicated team or if you are flying permanent wingman for someone as I see it. That build has the problem of having massive penalties at short range (either due to difficulty with missile locks or the massive tracking penalty heavy lasers have). So you have to reliably be able to stay out at medium-long range to get effective use at it. In a death match, scouts and short range specialized strikes are actively going to be hunting you instead of trying to capture objectives, so unless you are good at keeping an opponent at range, they have an advantage over you.

 

So unless you're working with a team that can cover you in short range, that loadout has problems. So probably better for domination than death match.

[-Shadowfist-]

better for domination than death match.

 

Hands down. Heavy/conc/proton is a very silly build to use in death match. You'll get owned.

[Itkovian]

Only if you have a dedicated team or if you are flying permanent wingman for someone as I see it. That build has the problem of having massive penalties at short range (either due to difficulty with missile locks or the massive tracking penalty heavy lasers have). So you have to reliably be able to stay out at medium-long range to get effective use at it. In a death match, scouts and short range specialized strikes are actively going to be hunting you instead of trying to capture objectives, so unless you are good at keeping an opponent at range, they have an advantage over you.

 

So unless you're working with a team that can cover you in short range, that loadout has problems. So probably better for domination than death match.

 

Well, it's no different than being a gunship, really. You need people to cover you short range if you're going to have a chance. And in that sense TDM will make life tougher for gunships, as the scouts won't be busy capping. But let's not forget that this works both ways: your own scouts won't be busy capping sats and will be out there, dogfighthing.

 

But to be honest, it is not as bad as it sounds like. I fly my Star Guard with Concussions and Heavy Lasers, capping and holding sats, and frequently get focused by scouts, and it is quite survivable. The trick is something that all good Strike pilots have learned by now: to not try and win dogfights with scouts, to avoid one on ones and fight as a team.

 

Even without a pre-made on your side, this is entirely doable. Stick by your fellow pilots, engage the ones attacking THEM, let them engage the ones attacking you, and so forth.

 

This happens today, and it works today. Sure, TDM means everyone will be out hunting, but that works for both ways. It's not like your own scouts will be busy capping either. They'll be out there, engaging their scouts, or their long range ships, or what have you. In that environment, long range ships will be just as effective as they are today. Perhaps even more so, as people dogfighting someone else are a lot easier to hit at range than sat humpers.

[Itkovian]

But to go back to the OP, ultimately the main advantage of the current Strikes relies on them being able to mount specialized "niche" weapons while still having a slot for another more generic weapon.

 

The Star Guard allows you to mount an Ion Cannon and still have normal blasters, or a Heavy Laser and Rapid-Fires for close-range dogfighting, and so on. So the usefulness of the Star Guard relies on how useful these "niche" weapons are. Heavy Lasers are very nasty weapons, for example, so the Star Guard is an excellent fit.

 

For the Pike (or Quell), that niche weapon is the Proton Torpedo. Protorps are basically the most powerful missiles, with massive long range, but has a tiny locking circle and a long lock-on time (thereby limiting it to long range, really). Therefore you cannot rely on them as your main weapon. With the Pike, however, you can also mount Concussions or Clusters, weapons far better suited for dogfighting, so you aren't penalized for carrying the "niche" Protorps.

 

So ultimately, the usefulness of the Pike/Quell depends on how much you like Proton Torpedoes. If you like them, and know how to use them well, the Pike is for you. If you don't like them, you're much better off with the Star Guard or some other role.

 

Personally, I love Protorps, they pack a massive punch and their extreme range is very useful. And I think they will only become more useful as new roles and game modes are added. No doubt a mode will come where destroying objectives will be required, and the protorp will be perfect for it (and bombers should make nice targets as well).

[Kain_Turinbar]

But to be honest, it is not as bad as it sounds like. I fly my Star Guard with Concussions and Heavy Lasers, capping and holding sats, and frequently get focused by scouts, and it is quite survivable. The trick is something that all good Strike pilots have learned by now: to not try and win dogfights with scouts, to avoid one on ones and fight as a team.

 

I think that is a key point I failed to make in regards to the comments about the heavy laser/concussion/Proton Torpedo loadout being no good in a dog fight and that is that obviously as a Strike Fighter if you want to stay alive you DO NOT DOGFIGHT with a scout anyway, especially if you find yourself outnumbered. I play this combination to:

 

1. win at range and stay at rang

2. devastate turrets to capture sats quickly (heavy lasers with ignore armor accomplish this FAST)

3. defend satellites

4. hunt gunships

 

Obviously with this loadout dogfighting the scouts at B in Kuat Shipyards or C in the asteroid field would be stupid. However out in the open most gunships and strike fighters like to "dogfight" like a game of chicken, head to head pass, turn, head to head pass, turn until someone dies. I find heavy lasers and concussions work well for this. Also if you get guys that like to work as a team and try to win rather than just every man for themselves I like to support the scouts. I get lots of proton torpedo locks w/hits when defending satellites if you get good scouts on your side that rush out to meet the attackers and occupy them while you start lining up your missiles.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar

[Kuciwalker]

Protons are not good vs good gunships - it is too easy to just hold your missile break for the last moment. Meanwhile, you are giving me several seconds to line up a shot on you.

[Itkovian]

Protons are not good vs good gunships - it is too easy to just hold your missile break for the last moment. Meanwhile, you are giving me several seconds to line up a shot on you.

 

It depends how you use them, and why. Protorps as an opener are usually to get people to go defensive, or sometimes to launch when you're at point blank. Much better, however, to get them to pop their lock breaker with something else, then immediately lock and launch your protorps.

 

You CAN get plenty of hits with protorps, but you have to employ them correctly. But sometimes just getting them to barrell roll away is good enough.

[Nemarus]

For a while I flew a Pike with Engine-to-Shield converter and Directional Shields. I could stay alive FOREVER, under heavy assault from other ships.

 

But then I started getting hit with proton torpedoes all the time--because I had no engine evade ability.

 

Both Bombers have no possible engine evade ability, so they will be vulnerable to proton torpedoes as well. And with Overcharged Shield and Engine-to-Shield converter, a Bomber can have shields over 3500, two cooldown abilities to boost/recover shield strength, and--because mines and drones don't require laser energy--they can sit in F2 mode without losing much offensive potential. This means that they will be very hard to kill by everything BUT proton torpedoes.

 

That being said, they can also have a hull strength of 2400, meaning it'll take three torpedoes to take them down.

[Kuciwalker]

It depends how you use them, and why. Protorps as an opener are usually to get people to go defensive, or sometimes to launch when you're at point blank. Much better, however, to get them to pop their lock breaker with something else, then immediately lock and launch your protorps.

 

Once I barrel roll away, you aren't getting another lock on me within the cooldown, not if that lock takes 3 seconds.

[Itkovian]

Once I barrel roll away, you aren't getting another lock on me within the cooldown, not if that lock takes 3 seconds.

 

Very well.

[Kain_Turinbar]

For a while I flew a Pike with Engine-to-Shield converter and Directional Shields. I could stay alive FOREVER, under heavy assault from other ships.

 

But then I started getting hit with proton torpedoes all the time--because I had no engine evade ability.

 

Both Bombers have no possible engine evade ability, so they will be vulnerable to proton torpedoes as well. And with Overcharged Shield and Engine-to-Shield converter, a Bomber can have shields over 3500, two cooldown abilities to boost/recover shield strength, and--because mines and drones don't require laser energy--they can sit in F2 mode without losing much offensive potential. This means that they will be very hard to kill by everything BUT proton torpedoes.

 

That being said, they can also have a hull strength of 2400, meaning it'll take three torpedoes to take them down.

 

Can't wait to take them on and see if all the complaining is justified. Sounds their defenses are hellacious. How accurate is their rail gun drone?

[Lytewraith]

they are and the repair droe and te hyper space becons are awesome tools you can be heale by more then 1 repair drone at a time

[xyrmagus]

After finally getting a gunship yesterday (I subbed in Dec, so didn't have access to it until yesterday) and playing around with the stock quarrel, I'm still unable to decide what to do with my pool of fleet req. I could dump it into my Pike, but that would still leave me with a ship that just seems inferior to the existing two classes of ships.

 

Do you guys really think bombers will significantly alter this dynamic? Should I bother finishing maxing my pike (only need to work on second missile, either proton or concussion, and two minor components) or just give up and build out the Quarrel?

[Kain_Turinbar]

After finally getting a gunship yesterday (I subbed in Dec, so didn't have access to it until yesterday) and playing around with the stock quarrel, I'm still unable to decide what to do with my pool of fleet req. I could dump it into my Pike, but that would still leave me with a ship that just seems inferior to the existing two classes of ships.

 

Do you guys really think bombers will significantly alter this dynamic? Should I bother finishing maxing my pike (only need to work on second missile, either proton or concussion, and two minor components) or just give up and build out the Quarrel?

 

That's something only you can decide for yourself. If in your mind fighters are not as good as scouts or gunships then why waste the requisition? Go ahead and use it on whatever you want to max first. After getting access to the Quarrel last night (like you, I subbed in December) it was interesting to say the least and I'd very much like to see what a fully upgraded one can do. But after tonight I will have turning thrusters maxed on my Pike and it will be as upgraded as I ever want (fully mastered with my choice of components) then I'll go back to my IL-5 w/moderate upgrades and finish it before I get to the Quarrel. Strange to finally play as one after hunting them for so long isn't it?

Edited January 15, 2014 by Kain_Turinbar

[Itkovian]

After finally getting a gunship yesterday (I subbed in Dec, so didn't have access to it until yesterday) and playing around with the stock quarrel, I'm still unable to decide what to do with my pool of fleet req. I could dump it into my Pike, but that would still leave me with a ship that just seems inferior to the existing two classes of ships.

 

Do you guys really think bombers will significantly alter this dynamic? Should I bother finishing maxing my pike (only need to work on second missile, either proton or concussion, and two minor components) or just give up and build out the Quarrel?

 

Personally I don't regret maxing out my Pike. I do extremely well, despite the balance issues. Ultimately, it depends on whether or not you like proton torpedoes. If you do, the Pike is an excellent choice, as you can also load good close-in weapons.

 

You'll never dogfight one on one as well as a scout, but that doesn't mean you can't dominate the game. You can still kill scouts left and right, just not in duels. Fight with your team, hit those attacking your wingmates, let others hit those on your tail.

 

Of course, the fact remains that right now Scouts are clearly the best role, but as more roles and game types are added the balance may become more obvious. Bombers may well do that.

 

But in any case, if I was as uncertain as you, and you've waited this long, I'd just wait the next 3 weeks and see how bombers affect the gameplay then.

[Kain_Turinbar]

Something this ship could benefit immensely from is a crew member who's passives increased secondary weapon firing arc by a few degrees and decreased missile lock by x%. It would probably make maxed clusters OP though so it won't happen. I got the idea from the copilot that increases blaster firing arc which to me is useless because you will never hit anything at the edge of your arc due to the penalty to accuracy.

[xyrmagus]

Something this ship could benefit immensely from is a crew member who's passives increased secondary weapon firing arc by a few degrees and decreased missile lock by x%. It would probably make maxed clusters OP though so it won't happen. I got the idea from the copilot that increases blaster firing arc which to me is useless because you will never hit anything at the edge of your arc due to the penalty to accuracy.

 

I agree the SF needs something unique, but I don't think that will happen given that the description specifically reads "jack of all trades." Then again, it also says a Flashfire can't go head to head with a strike fighter, and that's of course a laughable lie (LOL @ distortion shield...evasion in a space combat game = worst idea ever).

 

I do believe the Starguard/Rycer should have, say, 5% more laser damage, and the Pike should maybe have something similar for missiles. Or even better, a 1 min CD that prevents missile evasion on the next successful launch (would go perfectly with protorps)?

[Kain_Turinbar]

LOVING my fully upgraded Pike tonight, req well spent.

 

I'm an average player at best, b ut two matches in a row with 32K + damage, 10 or more kills, 7 or more assists and no deaths. I think what made the biggest difference was taking the turning bonus ont he final barrel roll upgrade and then changing the thrusters from spped to turning. Much easier to get concussion locks now and the concussion slow makes them easy to finish with blaseters.