When the game was being made, Why wasn't Hood Toggle considered?

[Magnusheart]

The 5 most common things I have seen people ask about. (Besides qq (inster class here) this is game breaking over this class. So I ask, when the game was being built, how come hood toggle wasn't considered? Older games have hood toggle.

 

1. Hood Toggle

2. HK-51 Customizations.

3. Dye's

4. Sandbox Space. (Space PvP but can go to planet to planet)

5. Rakghoul Event.

 

Edit: aparantly people misunderstood that some of these in the list of 5 were or have been answered before. So just to clear it all up.

 

2. HK-51. There are 4 customization, 2 of which are unavailable, 1 makes HK put C3p0 to shame, When I mean HK-51 customzations, I mean HK Series model with different paint jobs, or attachments but the same head etc.

3. Dye's came out, but was requested for a long time for those who remember it not existing at all.

4. Sandbox Space is what everyone believed the super secret space project was.

5. and people still complain about the Rakghoul event, and yes, I am aware its coming back. Longer than some people even.

Edited January 6, 2014 by Magnusheart

[Hezip]

The 5 most common things I have seen people ask about. (Besides qq (inster class here) this is game breaking over this class.

 

1. Hood Toggle

2. HK-51 Customizations.

3. Dye's

4. Sandbox Space. (Space PvP but can go to planet to planet)

5. Rakghoul Event.

 

We got HK-51 customizations with nearly new added daily area and BBA event.

We got lots of dyes

Game's engine probably can't handle sandbox space

Raghoul Event is returning

 

As to the hood toggle..To be honest I don't know an answer to it

[Aries_cz]

Wait, so what are you asking? Why do developers create more content and features over time? :rak_02:

 

• Hood toggle was apparently not considered, as the last information about this is that it is going to take crapload of time to implement. Nut sure why, as some headgear already makes the hoods go away, so implementing that as a toggle should not be "that" difficult.
  
• HK51 is just as customizable as other companions (currently 2 version, CZ-198 and BBA, with third from Oricon which is unobtainable)
  
• Dyes have been introduced at later time. The system is a bit bungled, and could have separate main and secondary color slots, but it is not bad
  
• Sandbox Space was presumably considered a waste of time, as the game is not a trading sim like other space games. And, as someone put it a long time ago, there was no Han saying "Hey Chewie, lets just go dick around in space with no goal"
  
• Rakghoul event is being remade from scratch from its last iteration in 1.1.
  

Edited January 6, 2014 by Aries_cz

[Darth_Wicked]

Most likely because it wasn't as easy to implement as some of us love to imply and it has ZERO influence on the actual gameplay?

 

Not saying that I wouldn't like to have it as an option but again, there are far more pressing concerns than having to cope with your character being bald, when he has the Hood "turned on".

[Aries_cz]

Most likely because it wasn't as easy to implement as some of us love to imply and it has ZERO influence on the actual gameplay?

 

Not saying that I wouldn't like to have it as an option but again, there are far more pressing concerns than having to cope with your character being bald, when he has the Hood "turned on".

 

I agree, but it seems that there is already "something" in the game code that forces the hood to disappear when certain headgear is equipped. Now, depending on what that particular "something" is, it might be possible to devise a function that would force this same effect regardless of headgear.

[JPryde]

Why wasn't Hood Toggle considered?

It was most likely just forgotten.

 

As Aries mentioned, there is an automatic hood toggle in game already.

 

My Twi'lek wearing a diabolist robe for example, wears it with hood off... a human would wear it with hood on. The code does exist, it was just not brought to the interface and made for an UI option.

 

So the real question should be:

"Why wasn't Hood Toggle made available by now?" and that is a very valid question.

 

From my perspective as a coder, this would work like this (pseudocode upcoming):

 

- Implement "hood on/hood off" toggle, similar to "show headslot on/off"

- apply:

IF species_hood_unable 
OR (headslot_hood_unable AND headslot_shown) 
[color="Orange"]OR useroption_hidehood [/color]
THEN hidehood
ELSE showhood

As I see it, this code is already implemented save for the orange part.

 

My personal wild a.. guess is, that some designer at Bioware decided, that they do not just want the hood to disappear/appear similar to the headslot, but that there should be a fancy animation of taking the hood down or up. However... judging by the threads on this forum, the community would be more than happy with being able to just toggle it on/off without any animation.

Edited January 6, 2014 by JPryde

[Darth_Wicked]

I agree, but it seems that there is already "something" in the game code that forces the hood to disappear when certain headgear is equipped. Now, depending on what that particular "something" is, it might be possible to devise a function that would force this same effect regardless of headgear.

 

But then again, that function is already there; What remains to be seen is if it's actually possible to apply that kind of workaround and / or functionality in every single robe, simultaneously, or if some line of code - or whatever you wanna call it - would have to be written, altered or rewritten altogether.

 

It's a wild guess but I assume it's most likely the latter, which is why it probably sits pretty low on their "stuff to do" list, especially when it has no influence in the gameplay as stated already.

[AlexDougherty]

[*]Sandbox Space was presumably considered a waste of time, as the game is not a trading sim like other space games. And, as someone put it a long time ago, there was no Han saying "Hey Chewie, lets just go dick around in space with no goal"

Not quite, Sandbox space requires a different type of game engine, and when the game was being built someone decided on the Hero engine (which has been massively modofied since), which ruled out sandbox anything. To do sandbox space (which quite a few people aren't interested(take from posts in threads)) they would have to rewrite the game, which would take years, during which virtually nothing would be added to the game.

 

The decision once made determined which way space in swtor would go, and remember this is basically Kotor 3, and neither Kotor game had you exploring space, just a turret space game most hated.

[Aries_cz]

But then again, that function is already there; What remains to be seen is if it's actually possible to apply that kind of workaround and / or functionality in every single robe, simultaneously, or if some line of code - or whatever you wanna call it - would have to be written, altered or rewritten altogether.

 

It's a wild guess but I assume it's most likely the latter, which is why it probably sits pretty low on their "stuff to do" list, especially when it has no influence in the gameplay as stated already.

 

Well, it seems to work on all hooded robes I found with one headgear or another.

I agree it is low on "to do list", but it does not really seem that hard to make, as it already is in game in some minor form. But, without seeing how the armor models are actually handled in the game code, we cannot say.

[AlexDougherty]

The 5 most common things I have seen people ask about. (Besides qq (inster class here) this is game breaking over this class.

 

1. Hood Toggle

2. HK-51 Customizations.

3. Dye's

4. Sandbox Space. (Space PvP but can go to planet to planet)

5. Rakghoul Event.

 

These are not game breaking, if you think they are you really haven't played a bad game, trust me these are minor issues.

 

1. Don't know, they should have done this by now.

2. There have been HK customisations, but they got removed, should be put back in with more sooner or later.

3. This was a suggestion by players, and while not done perfectly is far better than the previous option (pretend the armour was a different colour).

4. Game engine limitations, this won't happen.

5. This is an old event, yes it would be nice if it came back, but not a major issue.

[Darth_Wicked]

Well, it seems to work on all hooded robes I found with one headgear or another.

I agree it is low on "to do list", but it does not really seem that hard to make, as it already is in game in some minor form. But, without seeing how the armor models are actually handled in the game code, we cannot say.

 

That's my point.

 

Not trying to come up with excuses in order to justify Bioware's laziness or lack of foresight concerning this subject but then again, robes are most likely like car manufacturers - or if you prefer - and women...

 

They all handle differently.

 

[Aries_cz]

Not quite, Sandbox space requires a different type of game engine, and when the game was being built someone decided on the Hero engine (which has been massively modofied since), which ruled out sandbox anything. To do sandbox space (which quite a few people aren't interested(take from posts in threads)) they would have to rewrite the game, which would take years, during which virtually nothing would be added to the game.

 

The decision once made determined which way space in swtor would go, and remember this is basically Kotor 3, and neither Kotor game had you exploring space, just a turret space game most hated.

 

Well, unless the GSF is running on some completely different engine (which I do not think it does), adding some flying around planets and jumping into hyperspace/landing could "probably" be done (two abilities, one lands, one opens map and jumps).

But I agree, adding a "lets dick around in space for no reason" minigame feels unnecessary., and it would probably involve another loading screen for the planetary orbit (or the whole "space" map, depending on how large can BW make the maps without them having too long load times)

[AlexDougherty]

Well, unless the GSF is running on some completely different engine (which I do not think it does), adding some flying around planets and jumping into hyperspace/landing could "probably" be done (two abilities, one lands, one opens map and jumps).

But I agree, adding a "lets dick around in space for no reason" minigame feels unnecessary., and it would probably involve another loading screen for the planetary orbit (or the whole "space" map, depending on how large can BW make the maps without them having too long load times)

 

No, but GSF is limited in size, and limited in how many players it can handle at once (not sure what that number is, but probably less than what people imagine). Now a sandbox space area would need to be at least a hundred times bigger (or you could explore it in two minutes) and presumably have something to interact with (enemy ships, minable asteroids, etc). This would probably cause the engine to stutter and stop, just look at how it behaves on the fleets.

[ghoul_drool]

An honest question here. Having never played a sandbox game, how would 'sandbox' space even work? What sort of things would you encounter? How would those things be randomized so it doesn't become a big map like the Dune Sea? How do other games do this? What, in short, is the POINT to a sandbox map?

[Aries_cz]

No, but GSF is limited in size, and limited in how many players it can handle at once (not sure what that number is, but probably less than what people imagine). Now a sandbox space area would need to be at least a hundred times bigger (or you could explore it in two minutes) and presumably have something to interact with (enemy ships, minable asteroids, etc). This would probably cause the engine to stutter and stop, just look at how it behaves on the fleets.

 

That is why I said planetary orbits or other predetermined "small" locations, as we rarely see any action in "free space" in Star Wars. The number of players could be a problem, but how difficult is it on hardware, that is a question only BW can answer.

What i had in mind was simply another "planet" but in space where you control your ship, not your character, you talk to stations, not people, you fight ships, not NPCs or players, and you mine some points on asteroids instead of gathering crystal on the ground. The "only" difference here is movement along the Z-axis.

I know I oversimplify, but I think we have all the ingredients for it, and now we just need to figure out how to mix them together.

[Aries_cz]

An honest question here. Having never played a sandbox game, how would 'sandbox' space even work? What sort of things would you encounter? How would those things be randomized so it doesn't become a big map like the Dune Sea? How do other games do this? What, in short, is the POINT to a sandbox map?

 

A lot of people use the word "sandbox" as equivalent to "open world", which is incorrect }sandbox allows you to create anything ingame, like Minecraft, while Open World is more like Assassins Creed or GTA).

For the "open world", it can be imagined that asteroids move along some randomized path, stations orbit the planets, so they are not in one place, ships fly along some randomized path, pirates are spawning at attacking other ships, etc.

[Arkerus]

It was most likely just forgotten.

 

As Aries mentioned, there is an automatic hood toggle in game already.

 

My Twi'lek wearing a diabolist robe for example, wears it with hood off... a human would wear it with hood on. The code does exist, it was just not brought to the interface and made for an UI option.

 

So the real question should be:

"Why wasn't Hood Toggle made available by now?" and that is a very valid question.

 

From my perspective as a coder, this would work like this (pseudocode upcoming):

 

- Implement "hood on/hood off" toggle, similar to "show headslot on/off"

- apply:

IF species_hood_unable 
OR (headslot_hood_unable AND headslot_shown) 
[color="Orange"]OR useroption_hidehood [/color]
THEN hidehood
ELSE showhood

As I see it, this code is already implemented save for the orange part.

 

My personal wild a.. guess is, that some designer at Bioware decided, that they do not just want the hood to disappear/appear similar to the headslot, but that there should be a fancy animation of taking the hood down or up. However... judging by the threads on this forum, the community would be more than happy with being able to just toggle it on/off without any animation.

 

Pseudo code strikes. Look Bioware...someone fixed it.

 

*ugh*

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

It was most likely just forgotten.

 

As Aries mentioned, there is an automatic hood toggle in game already.

 

My Twi'lek wearing a diabolist robe for example, wears it with hood off... a human would wear it with hood on. The code does exist, it was just not brought to the interface and made for an UI option.

 

So the real question should be:

"Why wasn't Hood Toggle made available by now?" and that is a very valid question.

 

From my perspective as a coder, this would work like this (pseudocode upcoming):

 

- Implement "hood on/hood off" toggle, similar to "show headslot on/off"

- apply:

IF species_hood_unable 
OR (headslot_hood_unable AND headslot_shown) 
[color="Orange"]OR useroption_hidehood [/color]
THEN hidehood
ELSE showhood

As I see it, this code is already implemented save for the orange part.

 

My personal wild a.. guess is, that some designer at Bioware decided, that they do not just want the hood to disappear/appear similar to the headslot, but that there should be a fancy animation of taking the hood down or up. However... judging by the threads on this forum, the community would be more than happy with being able to just toggle it on/off without any animation.

I'm pretty sure there was a yellow post a while ago saying if they did this, they'd want to actually show the hood hanging down when toggled. Which would require reworking all the meshes currently in game.

 

Though I'd take the half-assed vanishing hood idea over no toggle at all.

[ZionHalcyon]

Hood Toggle wasn't forgotten. It wasn't even considered in the first place!!

 

Let's see, if I am a developer of a game, and making the game, do I want to design a new outfit, or work on a hood toggle? Do I want to balance combat, or work on a hood toggle? Do I want to create a new raid, or work on a hood toggle?

 

I mean come on. Not saying a hood toggle wouldn't be nice, but the question is out of bounds ridiculous...

[Aries_cz]

Pseudo code strikes. Look Bioware...someone fixed it.

 

*ugh*

 

Neither of us are saying it is that easy, so chill. However, there is the undeniable fact that there is "something" the the game code that forces the hoods to disappear when certain conditions are met (like being a twilek or having certain gear equipped). So, there should be some way to force the same effect to happen on clicking a button.

[Manweth]

It was most likely just forgotten.

 

As Aries mentioned, there is an automatic hood toggle in game already.

 

My Twi'lek wearing a diabolist robe for example, wears it with hood off... a human would wear it with hood on. The code does exist, it was just not brought to the interface and made for an UI option.

 

So the real question should be:

"Why wasn't Hood Toggle made available by now?" and that is a very valid question.

 

From my perspective as a coder, this would work like this (pseudocode upcoming):

 

- Implement "hood on/hood off" toggle, similar to "show headslot on/off"

- apply:

IF species_hood_unable 
OR (headslot_hood_unable AND headslot_shown) 
[color="Orange"]OR useroption_hidehood [/color]
THEN hidehood
ELSE showhood

As I see it, this code is already implemented save for the orange part.

 

My personal wild a.. guess is, that some designer at Bioware decided, that they do not just want the hood to disappear/appear similar to the headslot, but that there should be a fancy animation of taking the hood down or up. However... judging by the threads on this forum, the community would be more than happy with being able to just toggle it on/off without any animation.

 

That code makes hood disappear. There are already few headgears that inadvertendly does that.

 

I've heard from dev interviews, podcasts and forums themselves that devs want what many players want.

 

Player avatar ACTUALLY lowering/putting hood on/off. With proper animation. And without hood going away when it's lowered.

 

Simply having the hoodless versions of armors don't cut it.

 

It is, unfortunately, a crapshoot amount of work to implement that for existing robes AND game assets in animation perspective.

 

So it'll take a long time, if ever.

[Aries_cz]

That code makes hood disappear. There are already few headgears that inadvertendly does that.

 

I've heard from dev interviews, podcasts and forums themselves that devs want what many players want.

 

Player avatar ACTUALLY lowering/putting hood on/off. With proper animation. And without hood going away when it's lowered.

 

Simply having the hoodless versions of armors don't cut it.

 

It is, unfortunately, a crapshoot amount of work to implement that for existing robes AND game assets in animation perspective.

 

So it'll take a long time, if ever.

 

I think that many players would settle for just a simple toggle like this, if it actually get implemented as "proper" taking the hood down, then cool, but for the interim this would do, in my opinion.

[redsovereign]

I'll change the topic a little;

 

When the game was being made, why wasn't more chest pieces with "the hood down as in visual hood resting on your back" considered?

 

if there is anything we can learn from World of Warcraft then it's that a lot of ppl use the "hide helm" feature because they want to show their faces because even with very limited customization like what WoW has ppl still want to feel connected and for a lot of ppl when you cover the face the "identity of the character can't be seen".

 

This is a big issue in SWTOR a game where the "RP" in cutscenes the big draw point, what is the point of animating faces when you are hiding them ?

 

I love this game I really do been here since launch but I must say that I believe that hte reason there was so few "hood down" pieces made was because of incompetence, not understanding the players which is very confusing since its Bioware.

 

Both in Mass Effect series and Dragon Age I've always had "hide helm" because I want to see my characters expression when talking.

Sometimes I had it up if I wanted to RP being in combat but when I'm not in combat the helm goes into hide.

 

For me personally there is really no excuse here, I'd say that its pure incompetence. Making a RP heavy game and then circumvent features that 1) animators have worked their behinds of 2) is important for making the RP possible.

 

Just pure stupidness nothing more.

 

We never needed a hood toggle in the first place what we needed was more armor models with the hood down like the Vigilante Jedi set but you know... In game and obtainable through either PVP or PVE instead there is a lot of ugly models that noone use ever and to salt your wounds even more there is a lot of green/white pieces with hood down.

 

Compare SWTORs at-.release variants of armor pieces to that of Secret World of release. It's just incompetence from Bioware and nothing more

Failure to understand why something like this was important, failure to understand that a lot of the features the original team was working with was a huge waste of time, flawed badly implemented /(like legacy) and just pointless.

 

However I have huge faith in the new team because what was the saving grace for SWTOR was when the original team left the project. If they had continued working on SWTOR today then it would have been dead.

 

If you read this community manager; see to that the original devs that was left on release of SWTOR never gets to work with a MMORPG project again EVER and ty new team for being so awesome!

Edited January 6, 2014 by redsovereign

[Arkerus]

Neither of us are saying it is that easy, so chill. However, there is the undeniable fact that there is "something" the the game code that forces the hoods to disappear when certain conditions are met (like being a twilek or having certain gear equipped). So, there should be some way to force the same effect to happen on clicking a button.

 

I get what you are saying, I do.

 

And my point is that its not being implemented because its MUCH more complicated than what you think it is.

 

As bioware alluded to once before, the hood toggle is a problem with the architecture of the game and adding a toggle isn't really a short putt.

 

Hey. I want to see one too. I really do. I think it would be great because personally i think the hoods are too big but we might have to live with the fact that the way the game is architected does not allow for a solution.

[Aries_cz]

As bioware alluded to once before, the hood toggle is a problem with the architecture of the game and adding a toggle isn't really a short putt.

Never heard that one before, I only heard that it would be lot of work, because they are trying to do it needlessly complex (imo), animation and changing models of all armors to feature lowered hoods, etc...